2017-2018 Indiana Pacers and Everything NBA Thread

[aaron11]

6 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

THe core of GSW includes Durant..without him, they lost last year

 

Did anyone else build through the draft?

if you believe that you have to build through free agency then that is a horrible omen for the pacers

 

the way i see it, the draft is our only chance to get elite players

 

look at our record with free agents.  have we ever singed one that went on to be an all star?  have the colts for that matter?  yeah, its a different sport but the really good free agents rarely come to indiana

[oldunclemark]

9 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

So he is elite then? he's on the level of Curry Irving and Westbrook? No hes not he's a good middle of the pack point 

If you think he's 'middle of the pack'...You need that 'NBA Free Pass' so you can watch more ball..

[RockThatBlue]

11 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

durant wasnt on the team that won the title

 

i dont watch much college basketball but i believe PGs are the strength of this draft

This is a good draft for guards overall IMO

 

[Luck is Good]

4 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Yeah he was worth way more before the deadline his value has now dropped a ton cause there is a big chance he is a 1 year rental 

To any team but the Lakers, I agree

[oldunclemark]

5 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

if you believe that you have to build through free agency then that is a horrible omen for the pacers

 

the way i see it, the draft is our only chance to get elite players

 

look at our record with free agents.  have we ever singed one that went on to be an all star?  have the colts for that matter?  yeah, its a different sport but the really good free agents rarely come to Indiana

David West was an all-star..

 

Why do we start with the assumption that no one wants to play in Indianapolis?

.....If you start with the assumption that we cant get anybody..where are we.

 

Fans keep thinking this is baseball and football...

In basketball you only get 2 picks....and most top players are not ready for the NBA (unlike the NFL)

You can no longer build through the draft....we've made nice draft picks..we need more

[aaron11]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

Why do we start with the assumption that no one wants to play in Indianapolis?

 

mostly because of our history

 

i could be wrong but i cant remember a single free agent in either sport that went on to be an all star

[Colts_Fan12]

6 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

If you think he's 'middle of the pack'...You need that 'NBA Free Pass' so you can watch more ball..

If you think he is elite then you need to stop watching ball and go to the Looney bin 

[Colts_Fan12]

We traded for Teague way too late he should have been on the team that made the ECF. the window is closed with PG some just can't seem to see that 

[RockThatBlue]

4 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

mostly because of our history

 

i could be wrong but i cant remember a single free agent in either sport that went on to be an all star

The Colts actually do get quite a good amount of free agents to come here. But a lot of that is because of Manning, and now Luck. NFL season is shorter so free agents don't mind the cold as much, they can just go back home whenever the season ends. Can't say the same for the Pacers, though. NBA season is much longer and a lot of FAs like Florida and California teams (with obvious exception of Cleveland)

[oldunclemark]

   

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

mostly because of our history

 

i could be wrong but i cant remember a single free agent in either sport that went on to be an all star

I could be wrong but I don't remember anyone in last year;s draft who made a major impact, much less be an all-star

So you only want to acquire all-stars.  We don't have that luxury

David West, Jeff Teague..CJ Miles...Thad Young.. are good players.

 

You'd rather give up a potential Hall-of-fame player....so you can get college freshman.

I want to keep our big gun and surround him with free agents and prospects.

 

We can win 50-55 next year and PG resigns.

That;s thinking positive, sure, but why, as a franchise, would you think negative ?

[oldunclemark]

5 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

We traded for Teague way too late he should have been on the team that made the ECF. the window is closed with PG some just can't seem to see that 

Teague is 29..its not to late for him.....you'll be opening that 'Doom and Gloom' window next season

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, RockThatBlue said:

The Colts actually do get quite a good amount of free agents to come here. But a lot of that is because of Manning, and now Luck. NFL season is shorter so free agents don't mind the cold as much, they can just go back home whenever the season ends. Can't say the same for the Pacers, though. NBA season is much longer and a lot of FAs like Florida and California teams (with obvious exception of Cleveland)

Rock....

Thad Young, Monta Ellis, CJ Miles....Al Jefferson, Rodney Stuckey, even Aaron Brooks.

...all wanted come here and did

 

Indianapolis is not so bad for basketball

[aaron11]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

  

 

David West, Jeff Teague..CJ Miles...Thad Young.. are good players.

they were good pick ups but we need more to challenge teams like Cleveland or Miami a few years ago

 

david west was great really, but that team came up just short.  its going to be hard to get back there, they  had the #1 defense, now defense isnt even a strength

[oldunclemark]

9 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

If you think he is elite then you need to stop watching ball and go to the Looney bin 

Who is this draft is better than Jeff Teague?  Just asking

[Colts_Fan12]

3 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Teague is 29..its not to late for him.....you'll be opening that 'Doom and Gloom' window next season

Lol so when PG leaves Teague will be our leader to get us a championship?? you kill me 

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

they were good pick ups but we need more to challenge teams like Cleveland or Miami a few years ago

 

david west was great really, but that team came up just short.  its going to be hard to get back there, they  had the #1 defense, now defense isnt even a strength

of course we need more...that's fair.

..and we need to hit on more free agents like Teague and Young.....

Every acquisition cant average double figures and contribute solid floor play but

Stuckey was hurt too much and I'm afraid the game has changed on Monta..he;s not nearly as effective as we'd hoped

..but the comments that 'nobody good will ever come to Indy' ..that's just fan talk

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Lol so when PG leaves Teague will be our leader to get us a championship?? you kill me 

Predicting the future again..Live for today and you wont die

[Colts_Fan12]

3 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Who is this draft is better than Jeff Teague?  Just asking

Fultz Ball and Fox all have more talent then Teague had coming out but I forgot all rookies suck and are useless to you

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

Predicting the future again..Live for today and you wont die

It's called being prepared you don't just wave goodbye to your all star when you are not good enough to keep him you move him it's not hard to grasp really 

[oldunclemark]

   If we can draft a power forward to come off the bench and team with Myles an add a shooter and a true center in free agency...

 

..we'll win 50.....and PG wont jump to the 25-win Lakers..

That's how management has to think

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

It's called being prepared you don't just wave goodbye to your all star when you are not good enough to keep him you move him it's not hard to grasp really 

You want to give up. I get it

 

 

[Luck is Good]

I would take D'Aaron Fox in the blink of an eye. That guy is gonna be a balla. I would also take his teammate Malik Monk in the blink of an eye. Damn Kentucky

[oldunclemark]

When Kevin Pritchard says (as he did at his intro news conference) that hes gong to be bold and make moves for us to contend..

..does anybody read that as trading Paul George and tanking next season?

 

Me neither.

[oldunclemark]

3 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

I would take D'Aaron Fox in the blink of an eye. That guy is gonna be a balla. I would also take his teammate Malik Monk in the blink of an eye. Damn Kentucky

only Lonzo is going to be a 'balla'

 

(His dad told me so!)

[Luck is Good]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

only Lonzo is going to be a 'balla'

 

(His dad told me so!)

I would take listening to Mark Jackson over Lavar Ball

[oldunclemark]

6 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

I would take listening to Mark Jackson over Lavar Ball

On the old 'Married with Children' TV show, Al Bundy's favorite TV show was something called 'Psycho Dad'

 

Lavar Ball must have been the star of that show

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

   If we can draft a power forward to come off the bench and team with Myles an add a shooter and a true center in free agency...

 

..we'll win 50.....and PG wont jump to the 25-win Lakers..

That's how management has to think

Don't want much do you 

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

You want to give up. I get it

 

 

No you don't get much Mark 

[dgambill]

5 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

dg....

Nobody ashcans their team and starts over in the NBA...not successfully..

There is no valid comparison between the Colts and the Pacers

You cannot build through the draft in pro basketball..

Let me remind you that no players drafted last year made a major impact in the NBA,.

None.

 

You have to acquire free agents in the NBA...you cant just say 'we cant'.....

'Making the best trade you can' is giving up, in my opinion....I wont give up and neither will management/

 

If we're dealing in the real world, we have a young core...

PG is 27, Lance is 26, Myles Turner is 21...

trading PG and trying to build another 'young core'....is just kicking the can down the road

Forget a plan to be average in 3 years.

If we add a 3-shooter, sign Jeff Teague (only 29 by the way) and win 50 next year (and we won 42 without Lance) Paul George signs a new deal for a couple more years and we contend in the East.

I'd rather go that way that effectively trade Paul George for ANYONE in this draft

 

Lets live for today

Boston did it. They sold off all their stars and look where they are. GS built a juggernaut through the draft. OKC built contenders from the draft. Milwaukee has built a very talented young team in the draft. Utah built a nice team in the draft. Not every team is the 76ers who have not drafted with any specific plan in mind. There are plenty of up and coming teams that have built through the draft. The thing about small market teams is u need young cost controlled players to build a team and then you can see about acquiring FA help to finish it off. I get it you want to win now but when you don't have the assets to acquire players to do that you have to realize your drawing dead Mark. We tried the all in thing the last 4 years and it's left this team talentless with old game less vets on horrible contracts with no draft capital. We traded away any chances we had to find young studs to surround Paul with for crap players like Luis Scola and Young. Look at some of the guys we gave up and including draft picks...now imagine this team if we would have kept those assets.

 

Sorry to say Larry already gave up. He's gone. It isn't giving up to maximize your future. Sure we can play this thing out and land maybe a couple free agents and get a 3 or 4 seed but then your left with a still disgruntled star who is a free agent and the chance to go home where he has always wanted to play like his heros and we have to rebuild anyways. I'd rather rebuild with a number 1 or 2 pick and a couple other young pieces than take 2 or 3 years of sucking just to get those and then another couple while they get better and waste Turner. Mark this team isn't very good and it's hard to invision it getting much better. I'd love to keep PG and have a great team around him to go at Lebron again the next several years but we have run out of ammo...and everyone is aware of this. I'd love to live for today but it's a rainy cold day...you have to take your rose colored glasses off and see it for what it is. This is a team on the decline and our one asset is threatening to leave us with nothing and we can't afford to do that. Let's at least buy a rain coat and work towards something better when the weather clears up.

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

When Kevin Pritchard says (as he did at his intro news conference) that hes gong to be bold and make moves for us to contend..

..does anybody read that as trading Paul George and tanking next season?

 

Me neither.

What's more bold then trading PG? Also you've heard enough GM bull crap to know that means little. How long do you think he lasts if the first thing he says is that I'm trading our best player and how would that help Paul's trade value.

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

   If we can draft a power forward to come off the bench and team with Myles an add a shooter and a true center in free agency...

 

..we'll win 50.....and PG wont jump to the 25-win Lakers..

That's how management has to think

Two things Mark...we all know the Lakers were sand bagging this year...they are much better than their record shows. Just look at how great they started the season. They wanted to keep their pick this year so they tanked...second...I know you have to get annoyed at those guys in the FA forum they always act like we can sign every top talent unrealistic as it is...so please be realistic...we re-signing Teague alone eats up a majority of our cap space...we don't have max space just maybe second tier guy...doubt we even afford to resign CJ...this team is a ways away from contending.

[Colts_Fan12]

9 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Two things Mark...we all know the Lakers were sand bagging this year...they are much better than their record shows. Just look at how great they started the season. They wanted to keep their pick this year so they tanked...second...I know you have to get annoyed at those guys in the FA forum they always act like we can sign every top talent unrealistic as it is...so please be realistic...we re-signing Teague alone eats up a majority of our cap space...we don't have max space just maybe second tier guy...doubt we even afford to resign CJ...this team is a ways away from contending.

He thinks some team will trade for our garbage players with terrible contracts like Jefferson and Ellis 

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Fultz Ball and Fox all have more talent then Teague had coming out but I forgot all rookies suck and are useless to you

According to Mark you should just trade your draft pick every year...just sign vets. Never mind drafting high pick got us PG...who by the way played a similar position as Danny Granger at the time. Can you imagine how much better this team would be if we kept Plumlee and our draft pick instead of trading for a washed up Luis Scola? Will we ever learn our lesson or are we just going to continue to go all in.

[Colts_Fan12]

3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

According to Mark you should just trade your draft pick every year...just sign vets. Never mind drafting high pick got us PG...who by the way played a similar position as Danny Granger at the time. Can you imagine how much better this team would be if we kept Plumlee and our draft pick instead of trading for a washed up Luis Scola? Will we ever learn our lesson or are we just going to continue to go all in.

Oh I agree I've been trying to tell him every dang player in the league was a rookie at one time yet he still thinks they are useless and we need old guys 

 

He wants to trade for brook Lopez for crying out loud that guy is a walking cast 

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Oh I agree I've been trying to tell him every dang player in the league was a rookie at one time yet he still thinks they are useless and we need old guys 

 

He wants to trade for brook Lopez for crying out loud that guy is a walking cast 

I get that he doesn't want to lose PG...and if I thought we had a liegitment shot of keeping him I would continue to build around him...but I'm no longer giving up on young controllable contracts in draft picks. It's the life blood of a team and I'm sick of the Pacers giving them up because  we think some roll player vet is going to put us over the top when we are far from being a contender.

[21isSuperman]

3 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

I dont like any of those 3 Boston vets very much but lets say I did

 

3 questions: 1.) How good will Fultz be...?  I've never seen anything but highlights and he hasn't played the top competeiton. Cant say he's bad I just don't know.

 

.2.) How many years will Paul George destroy us playing in the East...are we giving up contending for 6 years?

 

3.) How many games does that team win next year?

 

Fultz is the consensus number one pick.  Solid shooter, can play defense, insane wingspan.  Paul George will be 28 when next season starts and I don't see him beating LeBron.  I don't think we'd be giving up contending for 6 years.  At the start of next season, Marcus Smart will be 23, Myles Turner will be 21, Jaylen Brown will be 20, Avery Bradley will be 26, and Lance will be 27.  That's a very young team.  Maybe they don't win a lot next year (which could be good, adding another young prospect), but they'll be competitive within 3 years, I'd say.  Jaylen Brown also played some solid defense on LeBron in their series, so he has the physical tools to match up with LeBron and George.  Not only that, but this deal would be done with Boston hoping to sign George long term.  It's very possible that the Celtics have that optimism and pull the trigger, but George decides to go to LA anyway.  Not likely, but possible.

 

3 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

If we could get that much it would be a miracle lol

 

I agree Highly unlikely.

[RockThatBlue]

34 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Two things Mark...we all know the Lakers were sand bagging this year...they are much better than their record shows. Just look at how great they started the season. They wanted to keep their pick this year so they tanked...second...I know you have to get annoyed at those guys in the FA forum they always act like we can sign every top talent unrealistic as it is...so please be realistic...we re-signing Teague alone eats up a majority of our cap space...we don't have max space just maybe second tier guy...doubt we even afford to resign CJ...this team is a ways away from contending.

Its not even just about the roster. The coach is not very good, either.

[Colts_Fan12]

22 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I get that he doesn't want to lose PG...and if I thought we had a liegitment shot of keeping him I would continue to build around him...but I'm no longer giving up on young controllable contracts in draft picks. It's the life blood of a team and I'm sick of the Pacers giving them up because  we think some roll player vet is going to put us over the top when we are far from being a contender.

I agree about PG but when everyone and their mother knows he wants to leave you might as well face the music and get something in return for him before he is gone for nothing 

[oldunclemark]

1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

He thinks some team will trade for our garbage players with terrible contracts like Jefferson and Ellis 

You just don't get the concept of the matching salaries required in NBA trades...

If NY wanted to trade Carmelo to us they would have to take matching salaries..

.....they would then release the players with expiring contracts they didn't want.

 

Understand?

[oldunclemark]

1 hour ago, 21isSuperman said:

Fultz is the consensus number one pick.  Solid shooter, can play defense, insane wingspan.  Paul George will be 28 when next season starts and I don't see him beating LeBron.  I don't think we'd be giving up contending for 6 years.  At the start of next season, Marcus Smart will be 23, Myles Turner will be 21, Jaylen Brown will be 20, Avery Bradley will be 26, and Lance will be 27.  That's a very young team.  Maybe they don't win a lot next year (which could be good, adding another young prospect), but they'll be competitive within 3 years, I'd say.  Jaylen Brown also played some solid defense on LeBron in their series, so he has the physical tools to match up with LeBron and George.  Not only that, but this deal would be done with Boston hoping to sign George long term.  It's very possible that the Celtics have that optimism and pull the trigger, but George decides to go to LA anyway.  Not likely, but possible.

 

 

I agree Highly unlikely.

Supe..I appreciate the effort ...... 3 things..come to mind

 

Of the 3 vets Boston would LOVE to give us for PG, ..Avery Bradley has quality..a former all-star

Unless I have misread his birth date, Paul George will be 27 next season..... all next season...His birthday is May 2. He will eventually be better than LeBron because LeBron will decline..its inevitable. LeBron will be 33 next year

 

..and if, we do your deal and, as you say, we are competitive in the East for the title in 3 years and, since he's a solid shooter with insane wingspan  Fultz proves to be even better than Paul George..(lets say that happens) ....

...Fultz will, in 3 years,  be one year from free agency and we will have to get a big name free agent or he will walk.(sound familiar?)

 

The whole thing is just kicking the can down the road.....and not trying to win now

Eventually, you have to go for it.

I believe, as I know you know, that time is now..next year..... 2017-2018