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2017-2018 Indiana Pacers and Everything NBA Thread


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1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

Supe..I appreciate the effort ...... 3 things..come to mind

 

Of the 3 vets Boston would LOVE to give us for PG, ..Avery Bradley has quality..a former all-star

Unless I have misread his birth date, Paul George will be 27 next season..... all next season...His birthday is May 2. He will eventually be better than LeBron because LeBron will decline..its inevitable. LeBron will be 33 next year

 

..and if, we do your deal and, as you say, we are competitive in the East for the title in 3 years and, since he's a solid shooter with insane wingspan  Fultz proves to be even better than Paul George..(lets say that happens) ....

...Fultz will, in 3 years,  be one year from free agency and we will have to get a big name free agent or he will walk.(sound familiar?)

 

The whole thing is just kicking the can down the road.....and not trying to win now

Eventually, you have to go for it.

I believe, as I know you know, that time is now..next year..... 2017-2018

 

I don't think this team is built to win now.  Instead of making a futile effort to win now and staying in mediocrity, I say focus on making a real effort of winning in the future. 

 

1. Bird and Vogel, two instrumental guys in making George the player he is today, are no longer with the franchise in any significant role. 

2. Most of George's buddies (Hibbert, George Hill) are gone

2. George spent what felt like all of last year complaining about a lack of chemistry or the team not showing effort. 

3. Reports are also that George really wants to play for the Lakers or for a contender.  Indiana is neither of those next year

4. Since he didn't make an All-NBA team, and it's too risky to see how things shape out for him next year, the Pacers can't offer George more money than other teams as originally thought

5. Since we'd be drafting Fultz and we'd have a strong, talented, young nucleus, chances of the Pacers being able to re-sign him would be very high.

 

All of this points to George leaving Indy.  Instead of him leaving as a free agent and the Pacers getting nothing in return for him, you trade him now to at least get some return.  Build around Myles Turner and the young talent you can get in return for George.  I'm not saying don't contend.  I'm saying contend in the right way.  This team has too many holes on defense and offense to be a contender against teams like Cleveland, Golden State, San Antonio, Boston, etc..  Build the team up the right way and swing for the fences.

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1 hour ago, dgambill said:

According to Mark you should just trade your draft pick every year...just sign vets. 

I've been calling for us to draft Caleb Swanigan.for weeks now

  Lets get it right....according to Mark, you should draft the 2 guys you are allowed to draft and build through free agency...

....I want proven players...not college freshmen starting ...play vets and develop rookies

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16 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I don't think this team is built to win now.  Instead of making a futile effort to win now and staying in mediocrity, I say focus on making a real effort of winning in the future. 

 

1. Bird and Vogel, two instrumental guys in making George the player he is today, are no longer with the franchise in any significant role. 

2. Most of George's buddies (Hibbert, George Hill) are gone

2. George spent what felt like all of last year complaining about a lack of chemistry or the team not showing effort. 

3. Reports are also that George really wants to play for the Lakers or for a contender.  Indiana is neither of those next year

4. Since he didn't make an All-NBA team, and it's too risky to see how things shape out for him next year, the Pacers can't offer George more money than other teams as originally thought

5. Since we'd be drafting Fultz and we'd have a strong, talented, young nucleus, chances of the Pacers being able to re-sign him would be very high.

 

All of this points to George leaving Indy.  Instead of him leaving as a free agent and the Pacers getting nothing in return for him, you trade him now to at least get some return.  Build around Myles Turner and the young talent you can get in return for George.  I'm not saying don't contend.  I'm saying contend in the right way.  This team has too many holes on defense and offense to be a contender against teams like Cleveland, Golden State, San Antonio, Boston, etc..  Build the team up the right way and swing for the fences.

The 2nd sentence: 'Instead of making a futile effort to win, lets make a real focus on winning in the future.'

You seem certain that Indian cannot contend under any circumstances but confident that they can in 3 years with rookie new blood....To me, that's the definition of kicking the can down the road.

 

The Pacers can offer Paul George $40 million more than any other team..right now.

It would be $70 more if he is all-NBA next year..

..

Lets not forget. Nate McMillan also helped PG be the player he is and Larry Bird is NOT gone.

 

Paul George said he wants to play for a contender.. He has never said or suggested that he wants to play for a sub. 500 team in LA and that's what they've been for 4 years...and would be with him

 

I think fans want to rebuild because they don't want to be disappointed by trying to win now.

Its fear.

But the NBA is a win-now league....All teams have holes..The Cavs are a mediocre defensive team.

Boston is an awful rebounding team.

 

..and again...lets tank and get a prospect who's better than Paul..and in 3 years...we're contending for the east title. Where are we then? We must resign that prospect before he leaves in free agency...exactly where we are now....Exactly..

I don't understand why chance of resigning a 'super' Fultz in 4 years would be better than chances of resigning Paul George now? What makes you say that?

 

I see a solid core with Lance back...Myles Turner and PG...plus Jeff Teague, Thad Young and CJ Miles. We need a shooter like Reddick and a true center to pair with Turner.....plus a full year of Lance.  WE are NOT far away

I think its fear of failure to not go for contending status now with proven vets

 

We played the Cavs better than Boston or Toronto did...why are we discouraged to the point of tanking?  

Add JJ Reddick or Otto Porter and Greg Monroe to our present team and we cant win 50..???

Those 3 are free agents...  Add Gordon Hayward to this team and we win play the Cavs for the East title next year.

 

Live for today, my man.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

The 2nd sentence: 'Instead of making a futile effort to win, lets make a real focus on winning in the future.'

You seem certain that Indian cannot contend under any circumstances but confident that they can in 3 years with rookie new blood....To me, that's the definition of kicking the can down the road.

 

The Pacers can offer Paul George $40 million more than any other team..right now.

It would be $70 more if he is all-NBA next year..

..

Lets not forget. Nate McMillan also helped PG be the player he is and Larry Bird is NOT gone.

 

Paul George said he wants to play for a contender.. He has never said or suggested that he wants to play for a sub. 500 team in LA and that's what they've been for 4 years...and would be with him

 

I think fans want to rebuild because they don't want to be disappointed by trying to win now.

Its fear.

But the NBA is a win-now league....All teams have holes..The Cavs are a mediocre defensive team.

Boston is an awful rebounding team.

 

..and again...lets tank and get a prospect who's better than Paul..and in 3 years...we're contending for the east title. Where are we then? We must resign that prospect before he leaves in free agency...exactly where we are now....Exactly..

 

I see a solid core with Lance back...Myles Turner and PG...plus Jeff Teague

I think its fear of failure to not go for contending status now with proven vets

 

We played the Cavs better than Boston or Toronto did...why are we discouraged to the point of tanking

 

 

Like you have any room to talk about fear lol you are terrified about not being the same average team again we are all ready to improve and you can't get past your false hope of winning the east with this same old @** team

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12 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

The 2nd sentence: 'Instead of making a futile effort to win, lets make a real focus on winning in the future.'

You seem certain that Indian cannot contend under any circumstances but confident that they can in 3 years with rookie new blood....To me, that's the definition of kicking the can down the road.

Who do the Pacers have now and who would they have in a few years?  Right now, they have Paul George and Myles Turner.  Nearly everyone else on the roster is expendable.  In a few years, under the hypothetical trade scenario I posed, they'd have lots of all-star level talent and guys with great physical abilities.  Aside from Paul George, who on this team can guard LeBron?  And even if we find someone who can (let's just say Lance), how would we compete against the Warriors?  Who is going to cover Curry (let's say Lance) and Klay (let's say George) and Draymond (Turner?) and possible Durant (???)?  We simply don't have the talent to stop them defensively or the firepower to keep up with them offensively.  But in 3 years, LeBron will be 35, Curry will be 32, Klay will be 30, Durant will be 31, etc.  Meanwhile, most of the Pacers will be under 30.  That will be our time to strike 

 

The Pacers can offer Paul George $40 million more than any other team..right now.

It would be $70 more if he is all-NBA next year..

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/playoffs/2017/05/18/pacers-paul-george-clarity-future-all-nba-snub-free-agent-los-angeles-lakers/101841906/

According to a person with knowledge of George’s thinking who spoke to USA TODAY Sports on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the situation, the money doesn’t matter nearly as much to him as most might assume. Yes, there’s a gap of more than $70 million between the five-year deal the Pacers could have given George and the four-year deal he could get from other teams in free agency next summer. And yes, the possibility still exists that – if George made an All-NBA team next season – the Pacers could still give him a supermax next offseason (or, of course, run the massive risk of losing him for nothing in free agency).

 

But after making it all the way back from his horrific leg break in the summer of 2014, and threatening to unseat the great LeBron James in those back-to-back Heat-Pacers conference finals, George finds himself more focused on legacy than ever.

--

The money isn't as big a deal for George, so this is a moot point.

..

Lets not forget. Nate McMillan also helped PG be the player he is and Larry Bird is NOT gone.

Sure, McMillan may have helped develop PG.  But right now, his bad coaching decisions are keeping the team.  This team had more talent than last year's team, but both were near the bottom of the East's playoff teams.  When you increase talent, but don't improve in the standings, that tells me it's a coaching issue.

 

Paul George said he wants to play for a contender.. He has never said or suggested that he wants to play for a sub. 500 team in LA and that's what they've been for 4 years...and would be with him

George wants to play for a contender or for his hometown Lakers.

 

I think fans want to rebuild because they don't want to be disappointed by trying to win now.

Its fear.

But the NBA is a win-now league....All teams have holes..The Cavs are a mediocre defensive team.

Having a superstar like LeBron covers up a lot of holes.  Plus, they have the offensive firepower to keep up with teams, even if their defense isn't on point.

Boston is an awful rebounding team.

And they're not in the Finals.

All teams will have holes and flaws.  The point is can the team overcome those holes?  Do they have the talent to make up for those holes?

 

..and again...lets tank and get a prospect who's better than Paul..and in 3 years...we're contending for the east title. Where are we then? We must resign that prospect before he leaves in free agency...exactly where we are now....Exactly..

I don't understand why chance of resigning a 'super' Fultz in 4 years would be better than chances of resigning Paul George now? What makes you say that?

Since we draft Fultz, we'd have a significant leg up in being able to re-sign him.  We have no indication what Fultz will be like in the future.  Maybe, like George, the money won't matter and he'll want to play closer to home.  Maybe, like Durant, he'll chase a ring and join a loaded team.  Maybe, unlike both of them, he'll want to build something great in Indy.  And if we surround him with lots of talent, it'll increase the chances he'll want to stay long term.  The point here is we know what George is thinking, but we don't know what Fultz will be thinking.  George is pretty much gone, but there's a chance Fultz could be here for over a decade.

 

I see a solid core with Lance back...Myles Turner and PG...plus Jeff Teague, Thad Young and CJ Miles. We need a shooter like Reddick and a true center to pair with Turner.....plus a full year of Lance.  WE are NOT far away

I think its fear of failure to not go for contending status now with proven vets

The roster has talent, and some holes, but it's the coaching that's really holding this team back.  Plus, the depth isn't really there.

 

We played the Cavs better than Boston or Toronto did...why are we discouraged to the point of tanking?  

I see what you're saying here, but we also blew a 25 point lead to the Cavs and you could argue the Cavs might not have been trying as hard since we were their first round matchup and such a low ranked seed.

 

Add JJ Reddick or Otto Porter and Greg Monroe to our present team and we cant win 50..???

Depends on coaching.  But even if we win 50, do we compete for a championship?  Can we beat Boston?  Can we beat Cleveland?

 

Those 3 are free agents...  Add Gordon Hayward to this team and we win play the Cavs for the East title next year.

Absolutely, but what are the chances we add Hayward?  We'd also need to re-sign Teague, in this case.  But again, we have McMillan to deal with

 

Live for today, my man.

 

Responses in bold.  Appreciate the response, bud.  Good to have these kinds of discussions :thmup:

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I have Warriors in 7. I broke down my reasons why on the Basketball Thread. The people on ESPN are all over the place, Mike Greenberg and Mike Golic both have Cavs in 6, Stephen A has the Warriors in 7, Max has Warriors in 6, Marcellus Wiley has Cavs in 6, StuGotz has Cavs in 6, Jacoby on Jalen and Jacoby has Cavs in 6. I am seeing a lot of Cavs in 6!

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9 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

As much as we all want that to happen, it unfortunately won't

I think it's either them or the Celtics. Celtics might have the best pitch though. They draft Markelle Fultz with the #1 overall pick and get Gordon Hayward. Good pieces to take down the Cavs. Those two would make them instantly better

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37 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have Warriors in 7. I broke down my reasons why on the Basketball Thread. The people on ESPN are all over the place, Mike Greenberg and Mike Golic both have Cavs in 6, Stephen A has the Warriors in 7, Max has Warriors in 6, Marcellus Wiley has Cavs in 6, StuGotz has Cavs in 6, Jacoby on Jalen and Jacoby has Cavs in 6. I am seeing a lot of Cavs in 6!

I did see that thread, I am shocked by Cavs in 6 talk. Maybe they are still thinking the Cavs have the physiological edge. Or Perhaps they think the Cavs are going to score 140 a game??

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3 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

I did see that thread, I am shocked by Cavs in 6 talk. Maybe they are still thinking the Cavs have the physiological edge. Or Perhaps they think the Cavs are going to score 140 a game??

I have never watched Undisputed which is Skip Bayless new debate show with Shannon Sharp on Fox but I Youtube'd todays show earlier and Shannon is taking Cavs in 6 as well. Skip was on the fence but went Warriors in 7 and it's only because he doesn't believe Steph will lose 2 years in a row.

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6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have never watched Undisputed which is Skip Bayless new debate show with Shannon Sharp on Fox but I Youtube'd todays show earlier and Shannon is taking Cavs in 6 as well. Skip was on the fence but went Warriors in 7 and it's only because he doesn't believe Steph will lose 2 years in a row.

Undisputed is  an awesome show lol. I love how they both work together. And yes, Shannon will never pick against LeBron.

 

Cavs sucked to close to season.. swept the Pacers but 16 total points. Lost to Celtics without IT.

 

Warriors haven't lost (when healthy) since.. Feb 13 and has been 28-1 since they rested everybody that night in San Antonio lol.. but yeah Cavs.. in 6 too lol. Okkaay. Must be nice to be the KING and have a switch you can pull right next to your throne.

Regular season really doesn't matter. 8 straight finals for Lebron has to be boring.. next season he should rest until the all star break and sneak the Cavs in at the 8th seed. And then proceed sweep his way through..

 

pshh I hope the Warriors punish them even more now

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4 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

Undisputed is  an awesome show lol. I love how they both work together. And yes, Shannon will never pick against LeBron.

 

Cavs sucked to close to season.. swept the Pacers but 16 total points. Lost to Celtics without IT.

 

Warriors haven't lost (when healthy) since.. Feb 13 and has been 28-1 since they rested everybody that night in San Antonio lol.. but yeah Cavs.. in 6 too lol. Okkaay. Must be nice to be the KING and have a switch you can pull right next to your throne.

Regular season really doesn't matter. 8 straight finals for Lebron has to be boring.. next season he should rest until the all star break and sneak the Cavs in at the 8th seed. And then proceed sweep his way through..

 

pshh I hope the Warriors punish them even more now

Yeah I just have never bother watching that show, I just wanted to see who Skip was picking actually so I Youtube'd todays show. After last season I just don't fully trust these Finals being an easy ride for the Warriors. Never in my mind did I think the Warriors would lose a 3-1 lead or lose Game 7 at home. The NBA is not very trustworthy regarding the way games are REFFED either. Out of Basketball, Football, and Baseball, Basketball is by far the worst REFFED. When you have a player like LeBron who is regarded in the same class as Michael Jordan you just never know how a game will be called.

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4 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

I'm having a hard time picking the winner of this series. I think it does go to 7 games, however. Though the Warriors have a talent advantage, its not a huge advantage as the Cavs are darn near as talented and they obviously have LeBron.

Your Post sums it up, despite being a so-called underdog many are still picking the Cavs or saying because the Cavs have LeBron they will win. Heck yeah it's tough to pick this because both teams are loaded and the Cavs have the best player. There is a ton of pressure on the Warriors to win Game 1 as well because if they lose HCA right off the bat the Cavs confidence will be through the roof.

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On 5/29/2017 at 10:34 PM, oldunclemark said:

Supe..I appreciate the effort ...... 3 things..come to mind

 

Of the 3 vets Boston would LOVE to give us for PG, ..Avery Bradley has quality..a former all-star

Unless I have misread his birth date, Paul George will be 27 next season..... all next season...His birthday is May 2. He will eventually be better than LeBron because LeBron will decline..its inevitable. LeBron will be 33 next year

 

..and if, we do your deal and, as you say, we are competitive in the East for the title in 3 years and, since he's a solid shooter with insane wingspan  Fultz proves to be even better than Paul George..(lets say that happens) ....

...Fultz will, in 3 years,  be one year from free agency and we will have to get a big name free agent or he will walk.(sound familiar?)

 

The whole thing is just kicking the can down the road.....and not trying to win now

Eventually, you have to go for it.

I believe, as I know you know, that time is now..next year..... 2017-2018

 

I hate to pick on u Mark but your wrong the way the new collective bargaining agreement is set up you have 4 year with team options in year 3 and 4 and restricted free agency so you can match contracts it's almost impossible to lose your rookie after first contract. I know where your coming from about Paul but even if you want to go all in we don't have the team around him to do it. We don't have pieces or cap space to put a significant upgrade to this team. We went all in several times during the PG, West, Lance, Hibbert era....but look at this roster...it's very far away from a contender and outside bringing in Hayward all-NBA player we aren't going to bridge that gap to a championship caliber team. I wish I could say we could be but it just isn't realistic. Why do you think Bird walked away. It's over Mark. A rebuild is almost inevitable...question is will we do it with some pieces from a trade or are we doing it from scratch.

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