Has Brady Lost His Drive?

[WSO]

Interesting stat I read last night

Tom Brady first 10 games, 3 SB wins 0 losses, 10-0 3 interceptions

Tom Brady last 12 games, 0 SB wins 2 losses, 6-6 17 interceptions

[GoPats]

How quickly fans turn on players. It is totally laughable that some Pats fans are ready to turn the page on the Brady era. The guy was one drop pass by Welker away from being in position to ice the game. The guy was fired up and showed fire in his belly after that touchdown pass to Woodhead.

Here is an idea for the Pats. How about instead of turning the pgae on the Brady/BB era you get Brady a real outside WR he can throw to. You give him a guy who can stretch the field to let Welker, Gronk, and AH do their thing in the middle and things would have been much more different.

JCPatriot nailed it in saying that posters like this are the same Colts fans who jumped on board once Peyton started winning. They will jump back off the bandwagon once Brady is gone.

Once again, could not have said it better myself.

Fans are fickle and will turn on players. Unless you're around a guy all day, every day, or know him personally, how can any of us comment on a person's drive and desire to win? It's not like Brady seemed OK with all of this. He supposedly sat at his locker after the game with a towel over his head for 25 minutes.

[Jay305]

Tom Brady has always been overrated Im sure they wouldve made it to the superbowl with Hoyer or Mallet

[JoKeR]

I completely disagree. Is current and former teammates would call him out on it. I think it's sad a fan would throw his hero underneath the bus just because he didn't win. That's one spoiled fan.

[Happy2BeHere]

Brady is still as good as they get!...I don't agree he's lost it. Brady didn't lose the SB this last time or the time before...he is a lot of the reason they are even there...the defense this year is without a doubt to blame...but with such drastic changes on the team (players) they still are always competitive...and in my humble opinion what more can you ask for from a team?

[Kenny]

I dont thin khe has lost his drive, but I do believe he is staring at the edge of his plateu. Their recent playoff failures is mostly due to the lack of defensive play he was used to in the hay days of him constantly whoopin our tails. The tables turned on that franchise recently, and honestly its going ot take a heck of a lot better drafting for them to get another ring.

[GoColts8818]

And an O-line that, what, 3 or 4 teams in the NFL can even hope to get far enough past to sniff Brady's cologne? The GIANTS barely got to him in this SB unlike the last one, but he was rattled anyway.

One is the Steelers, the Pats lost.

The second is the Ravens, they blew the game winning TD and shanked a field goal.

The third is the 49'ers - The Pats would probably lose in a low scoring game. If the 49'ers had a QB god help the rest of the NFL. (18+49 = ?)

The fourth is the Giants - The Pats lost. Twice.

In the first half outside of the safety you are right they didn't get much heat on Brady and even into the third quarter they didn't. In the fourth quarter though the Giants D was all around Brady either hitting him just after he let the ball go or flushing him out of the pocket and making him move. When you make Brady move he's not nearly as good (not like that's saying much you can say that about just any QB). I thought the turning point of the game was the play where the Giants hurt Brady's shoulder. He was never the same after that. I don't know if he was hurt more than he let on or if the Giants pass rush got back into his head after that point but that hit on his shoulder threw Brady out of his mojo that he was in at the end of the first half into the third quarter.

[JimJaime]

In the first half outside of the safety you are right they didn't get much heat on Brady and even into the third quarter they didn't. In the fourth quarter though the Giants D was all around Brady either hitting him just after he let the ball go or flushing him out of the pocket and making him move. When you make Brady move he's not nearly as good (not like that's saying much you can say that about just any QB). I thought the turning point of the game was the play where the Giants hurt Brady's shoulder. He was never the same after that. I don't know if he was hurt more than he let on or if the Giants pass rush got back into his head after that point but that hit on his shoulder threw Brady out of his mojo that he was in at the end of the first half into the third quarter.

Even in the 4th they didnt get to him as much as their 2ndary doing a good job of coverage. (even the "safety" was all coverage.). And Brady made enough plays to win the game, sadly our WR had a little case of the dropsies. (Not just welker but on the last drive Branch and Hernandez as well.)

So Brady mojo wasnt gone, Welker holds on or Branch catches the 25 yrd play on 1st down w 57 sec left the game could be completly different.. But hey game of inches and the Giants made the plays while the Pats O failed to. The Pats D held the Giants to 20 Points I do not think we as fans could have asked for anything more from that group.

[ruksak]

So Brady mojo wasnt gone, Welker holds on or Branch catches the 25 yrd play on 1st down w 57 sec left the game could be completly different.. But hey game of inches and the Giants made the plays while the Pats O failed to. The Pats D held the Giants to 20 Points I do not think we as fans could have asked for anything more from that group.

Branch didn't catch that because Tom threw it too early, despite not being hurried by a rusher. Branch was about to clear the safety underneath, and Tom >>>ed up, again, on that read. If Tom throws that pass just 1 beat later, they may have won that game.

Whether or not Tom has lost his mojo is up for debate. One thing that is not debatable is that Eli did not make the mistakes that Tom made. For all his legend regarding his clutch performances, he sure hasn't displayed much of this for some time. Even in the '06 AFCCG against the Colts we saw Tom make a poor read, throwing an INT and ending the Pats season.

One has to ask, do we have due cause to continue to perpetuate this idea of 'Brady magic'? I'm not seeing it, rather, I'm beginning to think that his reputation as a clutch magician is either antiquated or mythical in nature.

[JimJaime]

Branch didn't catch that because Tom threw it too early, despite not being hurried by a rusher. Branch was about to clear the safety underneath, and Tom >>>ed up, again, on that read. If Tom throws that pass just 1 beat later, they may have won that game.

Whether or not Tom has lost his mojo is up for debate. One thing that is not debatable is that Eli did not make the mistakes that Tom made. For all his legend regarding his clutch performances, he sure hasn't displayed much of this for some time. Even in the '06 AFCCG against the Colts we saw Tom make a poor read, throwing an INT and ending the Pats season.

One has to ask, do we have due cause to continue to perpetuate this idea of 'Brady magic'? I'm not seeing it, rather, I'm beginning to think that his reputation as a clutch magician is either antiquated or mythical in nature.

Not the Brady of old hmm:

'06 Reche "bug eyed" Caldwell drops an easy pass that would have been a TD and Iced the game, Team still scored 30+ points. I say the D collapse caused the ONE POINT loss not the last second INT.

07 SB Brady hits Moss for the go ahead TD leaving only 1:30 seconds on the clock. Miracle Drive happens.

'12 SB Brady Hits Welker on a nice pass (Yes to all the people saying it was a poor throw it wasn't just listen to ALL the former receivers out there saying Brady through it there to protect welker from being killed) but he drops it, Branch fails to stop in the SOFT spot of the zone (which is what they usually do.) still gets his hands on the pass (twice this happened) and dropped it , He hits Hernandez RIGHT in the hands and he drops the ball

As for "MAGIC" it can only happen if the rest team helps, wether that be the wr holding onto passes, or a D being able to stop a drive with 90 seconds left. Lets face it in '07 the D makes either the sack on the helmet catch or Asante comes up with he INT we are all talking how Brady led an amazing late 4th qrtr drive for the win. So early on the TEAM (as with any football stat) helped the magic to happen, now the team has hiccuped.. but god can we please get an outside wr PLEASE.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Good heavens!

Brady has several historically great seasons and then he becomes some washed up has been after a few incompletions in the Super Bowl, some of which were his fault and some of which were not.

Eli has one good season after several horrible ones and then he becomes better than Brady and Peyton because he has a good Super Bowl.

This stuff is laughable to say the least.

[ruksak]

Good heavens!

Brady has several historically great seasons and then he becomes some washed up has been after a few incompletions in the Super Bowl, some of which were his fault and some of which were not.

Eli has one good season after several horrible ones and then he becomes better than Brady and Peyton because he has a good Super Bowl.

This stuff is laughable to say the least.

Nobody is sayin he's "washed up". We're talkin about a changing of the guard. It happens, a QB cannot stay on top of his game forever.

I find it curious; For years Indy and NE fans have been having this Brady vs Manning debate, and the only real crux that NE fans fall back on is the rings. Well, all the sudden the other Manning steals 2/2 rings from Brady and they don't want that to be the crux anymore.

[ruksak]

Not the Brady of old hmm:

'12 SB Brady Hits Welker on a nice pass (Yes to all the people saying it was a poor throw it wasn't just listen to ALL the former receivers out there saying Brady through it there to protect welker from being killed) but he drops it,

Anytime a receiver has to leave his feet and do a pirouette on a seam route, that means the QB messed up. Don't throw Welker under the bus for Brady's goof.

He hits Hernandez RIGHT in the hands and he drops the ball

Kinda lucky he didn't catch it, it would've drained too much time off the clock. Bad throw.

but god can we please get an outside wr PLEASE.

Oh c'mon. Y'all got the biggest, baddest TE combo in the league and the leading receiver in the league (Welker). I guess Brady's so awesome he needs a probowl outside threat to be "magical" as well, huh?

I still think Brady is among the very best in the league right now. However, I think his "magic" persona has been way overplayed by the media and perhaps he isn't as unflinching as has been shoved down our throats.

NE has 4 picks in the first 2 rounds due to your ingenious FO/HC. Brady should get the defense and WR's he needs to finish out his career on top. The rest is on him alone.

[Jules]

Anytime a receiver has to leave his feet and do a pirouette on a seam route, that means the QB messed up. Don't throw Welker under the bus for Brady's goof.

Kinda lucky he didn't catch it, it would've drained too much time off the clock. Bad throw.

Oh c'mon. Y'all got the biggest, baddest TE combo in the league and the leading receiver in the league (Welker). I guess Brady's so awesome he needs a probowl outside threat to be "magical" as well, huh?

I still think Brady is among the very best in the league right now. However, I think his "magic" persona has been way overplayed by the media and perhaps he isn't as unflinching as has been shoved down our throats.

NE has 4 picks in the first 2 rounds due to your ingenious FO/HC. Brady should get the defense and WR's he needs to finish out his career on top. The rest is on him alone.

This.

Very much. This. Not just the magic but the "hunger" in his eyes.

Christ........

[JimJaime]

Anytime a receiver has to leave his feet and do a pirouette on a seam route, that means the QB messed up. Don't throw Welker under the bus for Brady's goof.

Kinda lucky he didn't catch it, it would've drained too much time off the clock. Bad throw.

Oh c'mon. Y'all got the biggest, baddest TE combo in the league and the leading receiver in the league (Welker). I guess Brady's so awesome he needs a probowl outside threat to be "magical" as well, huh?

I still think Brady is among the very best in the league right now. However, I think his "magic" persona has been way overplayed by the media and perhaps he isn't as unflinching as has been shoved down our throats.

NE has 4 picks in the first 2 rounds due to your ingenious FO/HC. Brady should get the defense and WR's he needs to finish out his career on top. The rest is on him alone.

1. EVERY former WR/TE has said Brady threw that ball where it needed to be. Point blank Welker got both hands AND PALMS on the ball he should have held on. (As Mike Felger said "I hate the play but love the player!) Drops happen, just sucks when it happens at the worst time like that.

2. LUCKY he didnt catch it, he was headint to the sideline and had beaten his man in coverage. So we will have to disagree here.. (wasn't even close to a bad throw though.)

3. I think the D held up their side of the bargain, they only allowed 20 points to a very good Giant D. And is close to being a GOOD (not great) D. We need a Von Miller is all lol

4. We have 2 bad ash TE, and a great slot WR, but we had ocho I lost 2 steps sinco, and Branch on the outside. But with the amazing talent at WR for FA I am hopeful we can get 1 decent outside threat for Brady.

I also think Brady is still Hungry, just in SB 42 he ran into a buzzsaw D, and this year the receivers dropped balls they always catch.

[WSO]

I can't blame welker. . .watching the video over and over again it looks like the ball was thrown behind him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6XaZXFYFEA

watching welker twist his body like that so quickly tells me he probably didnt expect it behind him

[dynasty13]

I can't blame welker. . .watching the video over and over again it looks like the ball was thrown behind him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6XaZXFYFEA

watching welker twist his body like that so quickly tells me he probably didnt expect it behind him

The more I watch it, the more I think he should have caught it. Let me first say I dont blame Welker for losing the Superbowl, nor am I blindly defending Brady...but my opinion on it is this. No matter what he had to do to get in position, whether its the twisting or jumping or whatever, thats great...but the ball DID hit him right in both hands. Its not like he got his fingertips on it and just couldnt pull it in...he literally just dropped it. Its like in baseball, an outfielder could run 100 feet to catch a ball, and its easy to say he had no business even getting there and give him credit for it, but if he closes his glove to early and the ball pops out and he drops it, its an error. Welker should have caught the ball...he makes that play all the time and he should have made this one...and I feel bad for the kid because he knows it.

[Superman]

Brady hasn't lost anything, except his All-World defense and an efficient running game. He's a much better quarterback now than he was when they won their three Super Bowls.

[Dwight Freeney 93]

Everybody from 01-07 is better then the now people, Peyton (healthy) then now where he can't even play

[ruksak]

I can't blame welker. . .watching the video over and over again it looks like the ball was thrown behind him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6XaZXFYFEA

watching welker twist his body like that so quickly tells me he probably didnt expect it behind him

Absolutely not. You don't go back shoulder on a seam route. I could see the reason for not leading Welker into the safety, however, but the pass was too high as well as being behind him.

Too much is being made of that play. A successful completion in no way guaranteed a win, nor would it have assured that Eli wouldn't have time for a drive.

[JimJaime]

Absolutely not. You don't go back shoulder on a seam route. I could see the reason for not leading Welker into the safety, however, but the pass was too high as well as being behind him.

Too much is being made of that play. A successful completion in no way guaranteed a win, nor would it have assured that Eli wouldn't have time for a drive.

Did you hear the audio from the game right fter the drop (any ball hits both your palms is a drop) the refs said "That was the game right there" and they were right. Also per Wiggens (former te NE) that route he is expecting it there, it was high but again he got both hands on it, it was a clean drop. Hey drops happen, just was a terrible time for it.

[ruksak]

Did you hear the audio from the game right fter the drop (any ball hits both your palms is a drop) the refs said "That was the game right there" and they were right. Also per Wiggens (former te NE) that route he is expecting it there, it was high but again he got both hands on it, it was a clean drop. Hey drops happen, just was a terrible time for it.

Actually I explained the same thing on this very forum a few days ago. From a statisticians standpoint, it is a drop. But that in no way means a QB cannot assist a receiver in getting a drop. I was actually shocked at how unnerved NE was as a unit, and that includes Brady. This shouldn't fairly indicate that Brady has lost it though. A few days removed from it has provided some clarity. As I said, I was shocked at the time that the Pats were so discombobulated.

[JimJaime]

Actually I explained the same thing on this very forum a few days ago. From a statisticians standpoint, it is a drop. But that in no way means a QB cannot assist a receiver in getting a drop. I was actually shocked at how unnerved NE was as a unit, and that includes Brady. This shouldn't fairly indicate that Brady has lost it though. A few days removed from it has provided some clarity. As I said, I was shocked at the time that the Pats were so discombobulated.

Brady never seemed right after that hit by tuck late in the 3rd quarter where he appeared to hurt his left shoulder. (not an excuse just an observation.) I also think the Giants are in the Pats head sorta like the Pats were in the Colts head for so long, and that will be the case till the beat them.

[ruksak]

Brady never seemed right after that hit by tuck late in the 3rd quarter where he appeared to hurt his left shoulder. (not an excuse just an observation.) I also think the Giants are in the Pats head sorta like the Pats were in the Colts head for so long, and that will be the case till the beat them.

I think the bigger issue is that people just expect the Pats to do better than that. I'm not sure the hit he took affected his motion. If you watch the replay of that last drive, Brady was more concerned with not getting whacked than anything else. He was shuffling and repositioning, moving to-n-fro just trying not to go down. I suppose he was having flashbacks of 08. Brady was taking a ton of pressure, and just like Manning or any other QB, thats how you shut the greats down.

Objectively, throughout the game when Brady wasn't getting pressured, he was quite brilliant.

[JimJaime]

I think the bigger issue is that people just expect the Pats to do better than that. I'm not sure the hit he took affected his motion. If you watch the replay of that last drive, Brady was more concerned with not getting whacked than anything else. He was shuffling and repositioning, moving to-n-fro just trying not to go down. I suppose he was having flashbacks of 08. Brady was taking a ton of pressure, and just like Manning or any other QB, thats how you shut the greats down.

Objectively, throughout the game when Brady wasn't getting pressured, he was quite brilliant.

Ruksak,

This article seems to say he rehurt his shoulder after that sack, and WOW what a drop off from before and after the sack in numbers, so there could be something to it.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d826c9b02/article/report-brady-aggravated-shoulder-sprain-in-super-bowl?module=HP11_headline_stack

[ruksak]

Ruksak,

This article seems to say he rehurt his shoulder after that sack, and WOW what a drop off from before and after the sack in numbers, so there could be something to it.

http://www.nfl.com/n..._headline_stack

Actually, thanks for posting that. I was going to say in my above post that I hadn't heard a peep about that. I'm sure if Tuck had laid that hit on me I'd be eating my dinner through a straw for a few weeks.

[-JJ-]

Actually I explained the same thing on this very forum a few days ago. From a statisticians standpoint, it is a drop. But that in no way means a QB cannot assist a receiver in getting a drop. I was actually shocked at how unnerved NE was as a unit, and that includes Brady. This shouldn't fairly indicate that Brady has lost it though. A few days removed from it has provided some clarity. As I said, I was shocked at the time that the Pats were so discombobulated.

A local radio host said NE looked either unprepared or overprepared. I know they were prepared. So I say over prepared and tentative.

They didn't not control the tempo. They let the Giants control it. Plays aside thats the bottom line. When they scored it was the up tempo drives. Where were they the rest of the game. They weren't there. SB long commercials don't help but commercials only come thru change of possesions,timeouts,etc.

I mean practicing with a 31 minute break to simulate SB halftime...is that over prepared? Me thinks maybe.

As to Brady he played well and one game makes not a decline.

It was the whole team, not that they looked flat...just no tempo. They reacted more than they acted. And that ticks me off:) because they had the firepower, Gronk 100% or not.

[JimJaime]

Actually, thanks for posting that. I was going to say in my above post that I hadn't heard a peep about that. I'm sure if Tuck had laid that hit on me I'd be eating my dinner through a straw for a few weeks.

You and me both my friend. So maybe we are both correct, the injury made his throws off more, and lets face it he prbl ws afraid getting laid out again he be out of the game Again not an excuse the giants won, but I can def understand why Brady's accuracy went haywire when he was on almost the hole game.

[ruksak]

You and me both my friend. So maybe we are both correct, the injury made his throws off more, and lets face it he prbl ws afraid getting laid out again he be out of the game Again not an excuse the giants won, but I can def understand why Brady's accuracy went haywire when he was on almost the hole game.

Didn't he hit like 16 consecutive at one point, a SB record?

[JimJaime]

Didn't he hit like 16 consecutive at one point, a SB record?

he had hit 16 in a row JUST before the sack. And seeing that hit hurts my shoulder lol

[colts_mp]

If Brady leads Welker back into the middle of the field he would have been absolutely destroyed by the defender. By throwing the ball behind him, Brady saved Welker. If he makes the catch they have the ball 1st down on the 20 and can run the clock to at least the 2 minute warning. One more first down wins the game outright without the Giants ever getting the ball back.

Don't forget that the Giants only had 1 timeout because Eli let the play clock run down twice on the same drive earlier in the fourth quarter and had to waste 2 timeouts.

[shakedownstreet]

i don't think he's lost his drive to promote perfume & hair conditioner

[JCPatriot]

Don't forget that the Giants only had 1 timeout because Eli let the play clock run down twice on the same drive earlier in the fourth quarter and had to waste 2 timeouts.

A drive that ended with the Giants punting. I definitely had the feeling that was going to come back to bite them later on.

[chad72]

Brady was never as clutch as he was made out to be in the past, and he is not by any means an underachiever or choker that he can be accused of by ignorant fans now. That is my two cents.

[Jules]

Brady was never as clutch as he was made out to be in the past, and he is not by any means an underachiever or choker that he can be accused of by ignorant fans now. That is my two cents.

Agree. The magical/clutch "hunger in his eyes" stories got out of hand. Hey it does with Tebow too so thats the media job.

They did the same thing before the Colts/Saints SB with building up Peyton before a loss to then tear him down.

[Jules]

Once again, could not have said it better myself.

Fans are fickle and will turn on players. Unless you're around a guy all day, every day, or know him personally, how can any of us comment on a person's drive and desire to win? It's not like Brady seemed OK with all of this. He supposedly sat at his locker after the game with a towel over his head for 25 minutes.

He did this to sit in the post shower steam for 25 minutes with the towel over him to open up his pores and give him a clearer complexion before he faced the media. *sigh* It's obvious.

[WSO]

I got a question for the Patriots fans. . .were any of you ticked off by Gronk and whoever else partying after the loss? To me, If I saw the Colts partying after the 2009 loss I'd be ticked off. It just doesn't seem right. . .I understand maybe taking a vacation a week later or whatever but right after the SB? hmmm

huh? What is wrong with you people today? You're so uptight.

[-JJ-]

I got a question for the Patriots fans. . .were any of you ticked off by Gronk and whoever else partying after the loss? To me, If I saw the Colts partying after the 2009 loss I'd be ticked off. It just doesn't seem right. . .I understand maybe taking a vacation a week later or whatever but right after the SB? hmmm

huh? What is wrong with you people today? You're so uptight.

huh? What is wrong with you people today? You're so incredibly uptight.

[ruksak]

i don't think he's lost his drive to promote perfume & hair conditioner

We just don't like our football players pretty, do we?

[JimJaime]

I got a question for the Patriots fans. . .were any of you ticked off by Gronk and whoever else partying after the loss? To me, If I saw the Colts partying after the 2009 loss I'd be ticked off. It just doesn't seem right. . .I understand maybe taking a vacation a week later or whatever but right after the SB? hmmm

huh? What is wrong with you people today? You're so uptight.

It was by invite only party held by Bob Kraft, so wasnt like they went out to a club or something. That said I wasn't mad, or even upset the season is over do whatever you have to get the terrible taste out of your mouth. (esp Gronk you know he feels if he was 100% the Pats win, which I agree with, the Giants wouldn't have stopped him and hernandez they failed stop hernandez for a long time.)