Assuming Peyton Is Retained & Luck Goes Elway...should We Go Rg3?

[UndecidedFrog]

You believe whatever you wanna believe lol dont really matter.

Thank you for this exchange. I am sure it has been enlightening for some readers of this forum to understand how to read critically, and how to differentiate between fact and speculation as exampled from this exchange.

The truth withstands scrutiny.

[JWF]

If Luck pulled an Elway then I would trade down (if a team is willing) and hope to pickup RG3. If he isnt there take the BPA and maybe pickup a QB (like Foles) in the 2nd.

[GoColts8818]

I don't think Luck is going to pull an Elway. When Luck has talked he has been beyond humble and said while he wants to start he would embrace sitting behind Peyton and can coexist with Peyton.

[04DarkShadowGT]

If we don't take Luck, we should trade. I don't like the looks of Griffin. Strikes me as the prototypical overhyped Heisman winner that bombs out in the NFL. I bet he slips into the second round easy.

You name the amount, I will take that bet in a heartbeat.

[Fx Stryker]

Id we Luck refused it would be nice if we could know who the #1 pick would go to next year. Then we could trade them and get Barkley next year.

[buccolts]

For some reason RGIII reminds me of Randall Cunningham.

Good athlete, but I don't see him becoming a consistent QB in the NFL.

No thanks.

Also, when considering trading the pick and taking a QB later, why does Weeden come up, and Tennehill never come up?

Tannehill is a project (converted WR), but is pretty highly regarded.

Weeden is 28. By the time PM is retired (based on any scenario to trade the pick), Weeden will be 32.

[a06cc]

Some of you who have the idea of Robert Griffen 3 being a bust please stop. You said the same about Cam Newton last year. Andrew Luck could turn out to be a Ryan Leaf. Just stop the negativity and wait until April.

[doogansquest]

I would think so. Either go RG3 or draft Luck and trade him for a ton of picks/young players

If we don't take Luck, we should trade. I don't like the looks of Griffin. Strikes me as the prototypical overhyped Heisman winner that bombs out in the NFL. I bet he slips into the second round easy.

I think RGIII has real game, but it's all speculation. Otherwise, I like these points. We trade Luck for a ransom if he doesn't want to be here.

[UndecidedFrog]

Also, when considering trading the pick and taking a QB later, why does Weeden come up, and Tennehill never come up?

Tannehill is a project (converted WR), but is pretty highly regarded.

Weeden is 28. By the time PM is retired (based on any scenario to trade the pick), Weeden will be 32.

Noted. However, I see Tannehill gone in the first round. And I don't think the Colts will spend any of its first round picks on a QB other than Luck/RG3. The others will be available in the 2nd round.

[ruksak]

I think RGIII has real game, but it's all speculation. Otherwise, I like these points. We trade Luck for a ransom if he doesn't want to be here.

Yep, not worth the risk. Taking a QB with our first pick should only be done with the utmost confidence in the selection, leaving little room at all for error.

[21isSuperman]

I think RGIII has real game, but it's all speculation. Otherwise, I like these points. We trade Luck for a ransom if he doesn't want to be here.

Have you watched any RG3 film? I don't follow college ball very closely, so I haven't seen much (and of course, when you put his name into Youtube, you only see his highlights and not a complete game film). How has he done? People say he is very accurate and smart, as well as an athletic QB with a big arm. Have you watched any film, and if so, what's your scouting report on him?

[MCurtis32]

Some of you who have the idea of Robert Griffen 3 being a bust please stop. You said the same about Cam Newton last year. Andrew Luck could turn out to be a Ryan Leaf. Just stop the negativity and wait until April.

He won't be a bust, as long as he is not picked too early in the draft. He will be about as good as Vick,cunningham, stewart, McChunky soup boy, shall I go on? Great athletes that cannot read defenses. Does Jeff George come to mind? I thew that one out there to head off the Race Card deployment. But go ahead and set your self free.

[noah larson]

Yep, not worth the risk. Taking a QB with our first pick should only be done with the utmost confidence in the selection, leaving little room at all for error.

Every 1st pick in the NFL has been a risk! So i guess we should just trade the pick!!

[noah larson]

He won't be a bust, as long as he is not picked too early in the draft. He will be about as good as Vick,cunningham, stewart, McChunky soup boy, shall I go on? Great athletes that cannot read defenses. Does Jeff George come to mind? I thew that one out there to head off the Race Card deployment. But go ahead and set your self free.

Worst post ever. It's laughable if you don't think RG3 can read defenses.

[MCurtis32]

Have you watched any RG3 film? I don't follow college ball very closely, so I haven't seen much (and of course, when you put his name into Youtube, you only see his highlights and not a complete game film). How has he done? People say he is very accurate and smart, as well as an athletic QB with a big arm. Have you watched any film, and if so, what's your scouting report on him?

He is small. More likely to run. And likes to party too much. Should be a project slot receiver. Jack of all trades, master of none. Painter would be the smarter play.

[MCurtis32]

Worst post ever. It's laughable if you don't think RG3 can read defenses.

you all thought George did too!

[ruksak]

Every 1st pick in the NFL has been a risk! So i guess we should just trade the pick!!

Let's not do semantics. Luck is exuding red flags all over the place that he's NFL ready and a high quality, low-risk pick.

[21isSuperman]

He is small. More likely to run. And likes to party too much. Should be a project slot receiver. Jack of all trades, master of none. Painter would be the smarter play.

He should play slot in the NFL? That's something I've never heard before

[ruksak]

Worst post ever. It's laughable if you don't think RG3 can read defenses.

His name is Griffin, not "RG3". This isn't ESPN.

He knows how to read college defenses. That isn't much. How often do we see QB's that win the Heisman but cannot adjust to the NFL?

[JWF]

He is small. More likely to run. And likes to party too much. Should be a project slot receiver. Jack of all trades, master of none. Painter would be the smarter play.

What?

Small? He's not 6'4 but the guy is 6'2 and over 200 lbs. He's not Luck's size but he's not tiny. More likely to run? The guy is a pass first QB. He usually looks to extend plays with his legs and runs if he has to. Likes to party? He's in college. He doesnt strike me as a knuckle head at all and i havnt read any articles about him getting into trouble.

Im not sure if this is tongue in cheek or not.

[UndecidedFrog]

He is small. More likely to run. And likes to party too much. Should be a project slot receiver. Jack of all trades, master of none. Painter would be the smarter play.

He is listed at 6'2".

And yes, he was more likely to run as a freshman in college. However, when he got his ACL torn early in his sophomore year, he worked on his passing game. He has improved in his junior year as a passer. Although he is still much more likely to run than Luck.

2011 Andrew Luck (Stanford Cardinal) regular season rushing attempts: 47

2011 RG3 (Baylor Bears) regular season rushing attempts: 179

1997 Peyton Manning (Tennessee Volunteers) regular season rushing attempts: 49

[MCurtis32]

Worst post ever. It's laughable if you don't think RG3 can read defenses.

What you need to do, is take all those Qb"s I have mentioned, along with a few others, Put them in a large boat. Lets call it Noah's Ark. After the great flood subsides, they will be the only QB's left on earth. Then and only then, will they have a chance at being champions of the NFL. Pure poetry! Thats funny, I don't care who you are.

[Dan]

Worst post ever. It's laughable if you don't think RG3 can read defenses.

Still ignoring my post in the Sport Science thread?

On topic, if Luck refuses we trade the pick. If I wasn't so convinced of Luck's abilities I'd be all for trading the pick because we can get a king's ransom for it. I still think RG3 is very good but I don't trust him as much as I do Luck.

Also to Smitto, it's pretty much universally acknowledged Luck is better than Griffin. You can choose to think Griffin is better all you like because that's your opinion, but you can't pretend NFL teams are saying Griffin is better.

[MCurtis32]

If the Colts >>> up and get Griffin, then they will have a high pick again next year and get that Jones kid at Oklahoma st. He is going to be special at the next level. Hate to blow another season to get a good QB.

[noah larson]

Still ignoring my post in the Sport Science thread?

On topic, if Luck refuses we trade the pick. If I wasn't so convinced of Luck's abilities I'd be all for trading the pick because we can get a king's ransom for it. I still think RG3 is very good but I don't trust him as much as I do Luck.

Also to Smitto, it's pretty much universally acknowledged Luck is better than Griffin. You can choose to think Griffin is better all you like because that's your opinion, but you can't pretend NFL teams are saying Griffin is better.

I have no problem with who you trust more, that's your opinion. I was just responding to the dumb post that RG3 can't read defenses.

[noah larson]

What you need to do, is take all those Qb"s I have mentioned, along with a few others, Put them in a large boat. Lets call it Noah's Ark. After the great flood subsides, they will be the only QB's left on earth. Then and only then, will they have a chance at being champions of the NFL. Pure poetry! Thats funny, I don't care who you are.

So are you saying that just becuase a QB is really athletic he won't be able to read defenses?

[noah larson]

His name is Griffin, not "RG3". This isn't ESPN.

He knows how to read college defenses. That isn't much. How often do we see QB's that win the Heisman but cannot adjust to the NFL?

What tough defenses did Luck read last year?? Plus i wasn't aware that Luck actually read an NFL defense which is why i'm wondering while you didn't put Lucks name with Griffin. Most heisman's had a great team around them when they won the award while griffin will just have one other teammate with him in the NFL.

[GoColts8818]

What tough defenses did Luck read last year?? Plus i wasn't aware that Luck actually read an NFL defense which is why i'm wondering while you didn't put Lucks name with Griffin. Most heisman's had a great team around them when they won the award while griffin will just have one other teammate with him in the NFL.

I don't know who all Stanford played but USC's defense is fairly highly regarded also the Notre Dame defense was decent this past year atleast in points against and he handled them.

I do know that he played against two teams RG3 played against this year as well and in both cases Luck's team preformed better for whatever that is worth which is probably not much.

[noah larson]

I don't know who all Stanford played but USC's defense is fairly highly regarded also the Notre Dame defense was decent this past year atleast in points against and he handled them.

I do know that he played against two teams RG3 played against this year as well and in both cases Luck's team preformed better for whatever that is worth which is probably not much.

USC defense was inconsistent they gave up 40 plus points to Arizona and Arizona State but other then that they didn't face a team with much offense excluding stanford and oregon. I think the only team they faced together was OKST. and Baylor did have a rough first half they had some good drives but just didn't come up with points. If i remember right Griffin threw for over 400 yards and had two TD's and two picks. That was by far his worst game of the year . If i remember right Blackmon just absolutely dominated baylor's D-fence. As for ND's defense they gave up over 30 points to Air Force, Michigan and USC but played good against michigan st. I still wouldn't call them good though.

[GoColts8818]

USC defense was inconsistent they gave up 40 plus points to Arizona and Arizona State but other then that they didn't face a team with much offense excluding stanford and oregon. I think the only team they faced together was OKST. and Baylor did have a rough first half they had some good drives but just didn't come up with points. If i remember right Griffin threw for over 400 yards and had two TD's and two picks. That was by far his worst game of the year . If i remember right Blackmon just absolutely dominated baylor's D-fence. As for ND's defense they gave up over 30 points to Air Force, Michigan and USC but played good against michigan st. I still wouldn't call them good though.

It's not like the Big 12 is loaded with great defense themselves. That's a QB driven conference. I would say on a whole Luck and RG3 played about the same level of defenses. It's not like either of them was going up against Alabama and LSU every week.

They both played Washington as well and both QBs had monster days against them so you would probably have to call that a wash. The only major difference in those games is that Standford's D did a better job vs. the Washington than Baylor's and that has nothing to do with the QB.

I said points aloud for Notre Dame and they were ranked 24th in the country in that department. That's decent. I honestly tried to looked up college defensive stats for a little while but ESPN.com didn't have a nice lisiting to fairly look at them and I didn't feel like putting that much effort into it.

I am not a huge college football fan but I do know that neither the Pac-10 or Big 12 is known for their defense. Had one played in the SEC or Big 10 then I think you might have a point but frankly I think the Pac-10 and Big 12 are probably about on the same level or close to it in terms of defenses.

[Coltsman1788]

It's not like the Big 12 is loaded with great defense themselves. That's a QB driven conference. I would say on a whole Luck and RG3 played about the same level of defenses. It's not like either of them was going up against Alabama and LSU every week.

They both played Washington as well and both QBs had monster days against them so you would probably have to call that a wash. The only major difference in those games is that Standford's D did a better job vs. the Washington than Baylor's and that has nothing to do with the QB.

I said points aloud for Notre Dame and they were ranked 24th in the country in that department. That's decent. I honestly tried to looked up college defensive stats for a little while but ESPN.com didn't have a nice lisiting to fairly look at them and I didn't feel like putting that much effort into it.

I am not a huge college football fan but I do know that neither the Pac-10 or Big 12 is known for their defense. Had one played in the SEC or Big 10 then I think you might have a point but frankly I think the Pac-10 and Big 12 are probably about on the same level or close to it in terms of defenses.

I think that is the point that Noah was trying to make though. That Luck and RG3 have pretty much faced the same caliber of college defenses yet people think Luck can read NFL defenses and assume that RG3 can't. Noah's point is where does that come from especially considering that RG3's numbers were superior last year? Not saying that I necessarily agree with him as I actually believe Luck to be the "safer" pick. Based purely on style of play which has been proven over time to translate better at the NFL level. But just pointing out that you kinda helped Noah to illustrate his point right there.

[pacolts56]

I think RGIII has real game, but it's all speculation. Otherwise, I like these points. We trade Luck for a ransom if he doesn't want to be here.

I agree with trading the #1 overall if Luck were to "pull an Elway".

I don't think he will.... but I also think spending the #1 overall on RGIII would be poor use of the top pick.

[Balzer40]

I think that is the point that Noah was trying to make though. That Luck and RG3 have pretty much faced the same caliber of college defenses yet people think Luck can read NFL defenses and assume that RG3 can't. Noah's point is where does that come from especially considering that RG3's numbers were superior last year? Not saying that I necessarily agree with him as I actually believe Luck to be the "safer" pick. Based purely on style of play which has been proven over time to translate better at the NFL level. But just pointing out that you kinda helped Noah to illustrate his point right there.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8254ff24/article/with-barkley-now-out-of-picture-attention-turns-to-griffin

Direct quotes from article.

"They don't call plays in the huddle. They walk to the line, the play comes from upstairs to the sideline, and it's signaled in," said one NFC executive. "The coordinator upstairs is reading the defense, (Griffin) is not doing that at all. And in the NFL, you're going to have to be the one reading the defense. You have to know what's going on at all times. And you have to get him under center, taking 3-, 5- and 7-step drops."

Another NFC exec said, "It's a very good system, and they've done a heck of a job recruiting for it. ... But it's simple, and he'll have to adjust. He's really smart, accepted to law school and all that, but it'll be an adjustment. … You're not gonna come in and put him in a Peyton [Manning] offense."

"That offense made things simple on him," said the scout. "Because he's such a running threat, he saw soft coverage, you didn't see defensive ends bending the corner to get him. They played him different to keep him in the pocket, and as a result, he got passing lanes he may not get in the pros. It's a problem, because he's got average-to-below-average size. The Vick comparison is there, because you figure he'll miss games (due to injury), but you can't tell him not to run, because that's what makes him special."

The scout continued that, "There's gonna be a significant development period. Him moreso than anyone. You can't fault him for what they didn't ask him to do. I think he's capable of it. But it's natural as a talent evaluator to want to see it."

These are all things I have repeatably said about Griffin. He has a lot and I mean a lot to learn that Luck already has a good handle on.

[icf]

No...if you pass on Luck #1, you trade down a few spots.

If RG3 is there at 3/4/5 then you take him then, but you dont take him #1.

[Coltsman1788]

http://www.nfl.com/n...urns-to-griffin

Direct quotes from article.

These are all things I have repeatably said about Griffin. He has a lot and I mean a lot to learn that Luck already has a good handle on.

Okay thanks...now we are cooking! Good sources to back up such assertions. I think most realize and acknowledge that RG3 would be more of a project which in turn could make him better suited to sit behind Peyton for a few years if the Colts retain his services. Again I don't think keeping Manning is very likely to happen and I agree that Luck is the better prospect and hope that he will be the pick. Just discussing the proposed thread scenario for discussion's sake. Wanted to get a read on some Colts fans opinions of RG3.

By the way, I didn't know that RG3 was accepted to law school. Balancing NCAA athletics and academics is no small task. So that is pretty impressive imo. Kid might have a little Steve Young in him.

[04DarkShadowGT]

His name is Griffin, not "RG3". This isn't ESPN.

He knows how to read college defenses. That isn't much. How often do we see QB's that win the Heisman but cannot adjust to the NFL?

So I take it you are not taking my offer on the bet you proposed, apparently you really didnt mean it huh.

[BelieveinB]

I'm mot sold that we need a QB this year if PM should come back 100%. Not sure that I like RG3 and not sure that he'd be the prototypical passer that could learn to read defenses, change plays at the line, or run the no huddle. he strikes me as a michael vick that for the first 5 yrs in the NFL, abandoned the pass game and relied on his feet. Could be wrong. Sure to be more College QB talent coming out in the next 2 or 3 years. If Peyton is healthy, u gear up defense and receiving corps for one more run. Trade ur number one for multiple picks and use next two years to scout new or existing talent for PM eventual retirement.

[jskinnz]

If we don't take Luck, we should trade. I don't like the looks of Griffin. Strikes me as the prototypical overhyped Heisman winner that bombs out in the NFL. I bet he slips into the second round easy.

Sorry but that is really not accurate at all. There is not a chance that he slips into the 2nd round. No chance whatsoever. In fact, the odds of him being the # 2 pick overall are infinitely greater than him falling out of the first round.

[doogansquest]

Have you watched any RG3 film? I don't follow college ball very closely, so I haven't seen much (and of course, when you put his name into Youtube, you only see his highlights and not a complete game film). How has he done? People say he is very accurate and smart, as well as an athletic QB with a big arm. Have you watched any film, and if so, what's your scouting report on him?

He is a throw-first QB, contrary to what a lot of people claim. He has the qualities you mention, but is also a tad raw. Lots of potential upside, but the occasional decision making blunder makes him a risk. The same vein as Aaron Rodgers, if you ask me: obvious talent that needs NFL refinement. Could be good for any team, but I think we can get a similar project later in the draft.

I feel as though we either take Luck or trade him for 1/2 a football team. If RGIII were still projected towards the end of the 1st, top of the 2nd, I would take him. That's where Rodgers fell, after all.

[UndecidedFrog]

I'm mot sold that we need a QB this year if PM should come back 100%. Not sure that I like RG3 and not sure that he'd be the prototypical passer that could learn to read defenses, change plays at the line, or run the no huddle. he strikes me as a michael vick that for the first 5 yrs in the NFL, abandoned the pass game and relied on his feet. Could be wrong. Sure to be more College QB talent coming out in the next 2 or 3 years. If Peyton is healthy, u gear up defense and receiving corps for one more run. Trade ur number one for multiple picks and use next two years to scout new or existing talent for PM eventual retirement.

That's what the Colts thought this past season. I don't think anyone is happy with the results of the Collins/Painter/Orlovsky plan.

At this point in time, we still don't know when PM can come back at 100%, or ever. I don't think repeating the errors of last season is a good idea.

I agree with you that Griffin is a developmental project, and would require a lot of work to transition to the NFL. That's why I think Luck is the better choice.

We don't know if PM will be healthy, that's why we need to use the #1 pick on his replacement.