State of colts

[cbear]

Ok, here's my excuse making once again.

 

Langford, HA, Geathers, DQ, Peterson, Vontae, Butler missed games or played hurt all year.  The Oline went through more rotations than any team last season, not to mention their youth.  Who knows how that shoulder affected Luck as well.  Yes he had a great numbers year, but how much better could it have been?  Now, unless we get hit again with all these injuries next year, we'll be in trouble again.  But I don't think lightning strikes twice.  Therefore, I really don't believe we are in that bad a shape as some seem to think.  Add the draft and FA and a better culture in the FO along with the continued growth I expect to see out of the OLine and I see us back in the PO rather easily next year.

[Defjamz26]

6 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

A big part of the problem is he has no pass rush to speak of and that makes his job 10 times tougher. 

We didn't have any pass rush in 2014 either when he had that remarkable season. I hear you but his play has regressed regardless of the other factors involved.

[Colts_Fan12]

5 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

We didn't have any pass rush in 2014 either when he had that remarkable season. I hear you but his play has regressed regardless of the other factors involved.

I still think he will be fine if these damn injuries will piss off 

[AKB]

22 hours ago, Luckynumber12 said:

Langford decent he's good if he's healthy ya I agree but Robinson was injuried most of year like to see him bounce backs 

good if healthy? 

 

Last season was the first game that he has missed in his ENTIRE career...?

[Luck 4 president]

I just played an online Madden game where Darius Butler, Mike Adams, and Vontae Davis each got me a pick 6. As long as they're making big plays like that, we need to keep them. No question.

[Colts1324]

Indiana

[Colts1324]

For real though, we are in better shape than people think. With a good offseason and draft we are back with the best IMO. I think Luck will be MVP if his shoulder is completely healed up. 

[AKB]

23 minutes ago, Luck 4 president said:

I just played an online Madden game where Darius Butler, Mike Adams, and Vontae Davis each got me a pick 6. As long as they're making big plays like that, we need to keep them. No question.

which console do you play on?

[theanarchist]

16 hours ago, rockywoj said:

To be fair, if memory serves, it was Chuck Pagano that personally worked out TJ Green predraft and it was he that became enamored with Green.  Ergo, my suspicion is that T.J. Green was more of a Pagano selection than a Grigson pick.  Just sayin.

 

I agree that I don't see corner being his thing, though.  I think he has potential at safety.  He's still very young and he dealt with some injury issues last year.  Way premature to already give-up on him like so many here seem to want to do.  He really is going to have to step it up significantly over the next two years, though, or this pick too will be yet another Pagano / Grigson bust.  I really hold this one over the head of Pagano, though, based on my understanding of the pre-draft vetting process that went down.

You could be right but I don't think that grigson was the kind of guy who got talked into much in the draft room. I could be wrong but just a suspicion. Green has a long way to go, I'll leave it at that.

[NannyMcafee]

On 2/3/2017 at 5:45 AM, Defjamz26 said:

Also Vontae Davis isn't young anymore. He's turning 29 in May. And he hasn't been playing like he did in 2014 (spare with the "oh he was playing hurt" line). Colts need to think about not only a number 2 CB, but a future number 1.

 

I don't believe I will spare you. He was hurt this year more often than not, and this is by far, the worst pass rush in Indy for a long time. He was the only one on the field and without a pass rush. I would say he would have done miles better with even a slight pass rush, but you can't cover forever. As much as you want to believe he has taken a step back, there just isn't enough evidence to condemn his play. The reason he was even on the field while injured is because our entire secondary couldn't stay healthy this past year. Why anyone would think he didn't play injured is beyond me. 

[jet1968]

Colts defense is not impressive at any position. All could be upgraded.

[zibby43]

1) I'm not convinced TJ Green has a future anywhere in the Indianapolis secondary.  My opinion may change, but based off of the tape I've seen, he's a mess right now. 

 

Green is fast, long, and physical, but he's a disaster when it comes to assignment discipline and technique.  I cannot believe the Colts drafted Green as high as they did.  He is so incredibly raw for his position. 

 

I know this may seem like a stretch, but Green is almost where Swoope was when the Colts first signed him.  That's how much work has to be done to mold Green into an NFL-caliber safety (as opposed to an athlete just running around out there trying to make plays).

 

The fact that Green had to play last year goes to show how bad the secondary depth is in Indianapolis.  Part of that depth problem was caused by a wave of injuries.  Bad drafting and questionable FA signings have also played a role in depleting arguably the 2nd most important position group in the league. 

 

2) Currently, Adams and Butler are 2 of the best DBs that the Colts have.  Butler surprised me at safety last year.  He looked much more comfortable there as opposed to outside (that non-Nickel/slot experiment did not work out). 

 

At this point, the Colts cannot afford to lose either one of them, unless they are able to sign at least 2 experienced (but still relatively young) FAs that can replace them.  Adams is nearing the end of his career, but he is still productive, and he understands the defense.

 

The Colts have to address the secondary depth in the draft.  If they're able to do that this year, then the Colts will have a backup plan in place when Mike's production starts to deteriorate.

[throwing BBZ]

21 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

1) I'm not convinced TJ Green has a future anywhere in the Indianapolis secondary.  My opinion may change, but based off of the tape I've seen, he's a mess right now. 

 

Green is fast, long, and physical, but he's a disaster when it comes to assignment discipline and technique.  I cannot believe the Colts drafted Green as high as they did.  He is so incredibly raw for his position. 

 

I know this may seem like a stretch, but Green is almost where Swoope was when the Colts first signed him.  That's how much work has to be done to mold Green into an NFL-caliber safety (as opposed to an athlete just running around out there trying to make plays).

 

The fact that Green had to play last year goes to show how bad the secondary depth is in Indianapolis.  Part of that depth problem was caused by a wave of injuries.  Bad drafting and questionable FA signings have also played a role in depleting arguably the 2nd most important position group in the league. 

 

2) Currently, Adams and Butler are 2 of the best DBs that the Colts have.  Butler surprised me at safety last year.  He looked much more comfortable there as opposed to outside (that non-Nickel/slot experiment did not work out). 

 

At this point, the Colts cannot afford to lose either one of them, unless they are able to sign at least 2 experienced (but still relatively young) FAs that can replace them.  Adams is nearing the end of his career, but he is still productive, and he understands the defense.

 

The Colts have to address the secondary depth in the draft.  If they're able to do that this year, then the Colts will have a backup plan in place when Mike's production starts to deteriorate.

 

  Adams was weak last season and i will be shocked if our GM considers him.
 Butler stood 15 yards back in a zone and anticipated quite well, a couple routes that were headed his way and jumped them for int. Nice job!
  He may get resigned, but he is also very replaceable.
 I consider it a Given that our GM will sign a younger Vet and draft a FS.
  Green showed some promise as a play maker when the ball was in front of him. I believe they will keep coaching him up and making a place for him.
 I can see him playing up when Geathers is playing LB in our 4-2 with our New FS back, for instance. He can cover a lot of ground to the edge. lol

[dgambill]

One thing I will say about Vontae is he has great genes. Everyone wrote off Vernon and that guy came back and had a great season. Vontae may surprise and be one of those corners that plays til they are like 35. I wouldn't break the bank to bring him back but no reason to move on just yet. I do want to bring in some young corners as this draft is loaded with talent.

[theanarchist]

On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 4:11 AM, LockeDown said:

Things Ballard said.   He doesn't meddle in how the coach uses the players, that the players have to earn the right to be a Colt, we should get at least 4 good players every draft, he likes defense, he drafts BPA.   

 

I see him drafting BPA and letting them battle it out for supremacy.  Someone like Morrison or even Ridgeway and McGill will have to fight for their spots. No job is safe.  If you assume 4 good players and he brings in a FA or 2 (he is cautious about this).  That's now 5-6 players this year. That in and of itself can change a .500 team into a playoff team in AFC South.  He and Dorsey turned around KC quickly.

I just hope that by BPA he doesn't mean drafting a WR in round 1 and bypassing a future defensive player of the year in the process...if you get my analogy

[Mr. Irrelevant]

11 minutes ago, theanarchist said:

I just hope that by BPA he doesn't mean drafting a WR in round 1 and bypassing a future defensive player of the year in the process...if you get my analogy

 

Irsay wouldn't allow that. I have no doubt that the O-Line heavy draft last year was an executive order from Irsay. Pagano was allowed to get Green, but beyond that the order was "Get that O-Line fixed God dammit, Grigson!"

 

This year executive order is "Get the defense fixed, pretty please, Ballard!". 

[LockeDown]

15 hours ago, Mr Clueless said:

 

Irsay wouldn't allow that. I have no doubt that the O-Line heavy draft last year was an executive order from Irsay. Pagano was allowed to get Green, but beyond that the order was "Get that O-Line fixed God dammit, Grigson!"

 

This year executive order is "Get the defense fixed, pretty please, Ballard!". 

So many good defensive players.  It would be mind blowing if that happened.

[1959Colts]

Adams needs to go.

[James Ducheteau]

On 2/3/2017 at 0:43 AM, Luckynumber12 said:

I have somewhat of open kind now with Ballard and I believe we have a few intriguing young players ppl might not fully realize that could help us  on D 

players I like an have upside 

Henry Anderson DE 

Hassan Ridgeway DT 

Antonio Morrison ILB 

Clayton Geathers S 

TJ Green CB / S 

Vontae Davis CB 

 

listed green as corner I'd like to see him at corner ? 

 

Move on from 

Dqwell Jackson 

Arthur Jones 

Darius Butler 

mike Adams 

I don't understand why Parry never gets any love. I know he is not a dominant NT but dude has not missed a game, seems to give the best he has, even raising above his own abilities at times and is uber young. To me he's the Jack Doyle of the defense. Just a good hard nosed lunch box kind of guy...you really can't have enough of those guys on your team.

[Defjamz26]

31 minutes ago, James Ducheteau said:

I don't understand why Parry never gets any love. I know he is not a dominant NT but dude has not missed a game, seems to give the best he has, even raising above his own abilities at times and is uber young. To me he's the Jack Doyle of the defense. Just a good hard nosed lunch box kind of guy...you really can't have enough of those guys on your team.

Guys like that don't necessarily win championships though, unless you're the Patriots. Parry is a quality backup and rotational guy but he should be upgraded when possible. He's not bad, but he's not good either. You could do worse than Parry for sure but you certainly do much better as well.

[Jdubu]

57 minutes ago, James Ducheteau said:

I don't understand why Parry never gets any love. I know he is not a dominant NT but dude has not missed a game, seems to give the best he has, even raising above his own abilities at times and is uber young. To me he's the Jack Doyle of the defense. Just a good hard nosed lunch box kind of guy...you really can't have enough of those guys on your team.

Party is a guy who can take some snaps in certain rotations but in no way is he the Doyle of the defense. Doyle catches everything in his area and "does his job" at a high clip. Parry does not perform to that level. He does an average job with a flash of a very good play once or twice a game. Parry is backup material on this team. Sorry. 

[James Ducheteau]

4 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

Party is a guy who can take some snaps in certain rotations but in no way is he the Doyle of the defense. Doyle catches everything in his area and "does his job" at a high clip. Parry does not perform to that level. He does an average job with a flash of a very good play once or twice a game. Parry is backup material on this team. Sorry. 

I'm not saying he should be a starter. I just don't understand why he never gets counted in the young players we should keep group. Just because he isn't a starter doesn't mean you should trash him. I mean he was what, a 5th found pick? and he's played in every game, and played pretty well considering his size and natural ability. You have to have backups in the NFL, they are a key component of your team, and Parry is a very solid player, who plays to the best of his abilities and should be considered a asset to the team in my opinion.

[throwing BBZ]

21 minutes ago, James Ducheteau said:

I'm not saying he should be a starter. I just don't understand why he never gets counted in the young players we should keep group. Just because he isn't a starter doesn't mean you should trash him. I mean he was what, a 5th found pick? and he's played in every game, and played pretty well considering his size and natural ability. You have to have backups in the NFL, they are a key component of your team, and Parry is a very solid player, who plays to the best of his abilities and should be considered a asset to the team in my opinion.

 

 Parry has many attributes that make for a solid player.
 Unfortunately, when you add it ALL up, he is not at all a run stuffing NT, nor a rotational pass rushing specialist.
 I would prefer he contribute to an opponents roster ASAP.
 

[Jdubu]

42 minutes ago, James Ducheteau said:

I'm not saying he should be a starter. I just don't understand why he never gets counted in the young players we should keep group. Just because he isn't a starter doesn't mean you should trash him. I mean he was what, a 5th found pick? and he's played in every game, and played pretty well considering his size and natural ability. You have to have backups in the NFL, they are a key component of your team, and Parry is a very solid player, who plays to the best of his abilities and should be considered a asset to the team in my opinion.

I do not dislike Parry, in fact I praised his play his first few seasons and I understand you are not saying he should be the starter, rather quality backup. What I will say is, you have to look at him objectively and at a possible younger, or  of same age, replacement and think about their upside moving forward. Parry is at his peak point and can add some value in stepping in on a limited basis but he should not be the guy you have to look on the bench and say go give me 4 solid starting games while the starter heals up. Can you get at least his production from a new 3-5 round pick or someone else's project player who never reached their potential or didn't fit that teams scheme but may be closer to yours? 

 

So Parry isn't someone I dislike, he plays where he should or sometimes just above his capabilities but he isn't a guy you feel you need to find a roster spot on the team because he does so much right. Doyle does fill that definition though, he just produces above what he should. He typifies the type of roster player that the pats build with. He isn't a Gronk freak type guy but he also isn't a clunky slow footed bad hands guy. Why he never got the recognition he deserved even last year, I'll never understand which was why I thought it was a horrible choice to spend money on Allen. Should of let another team sign Allen and take the comp pick. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

On 2/3/2017 at 2:30 AM, Chucklez said:

You had me until you said Morrison was a player with upside... Nothing we saw from him last season would suggest that...

 

He definitely struggled early on, but towards the end of the year his play did improve, especially in the run game. He may not be much more than a rotational guy moving forward unless he makes a huge leap in his coverage abilities, but considering he's on a cheap rookie deal, I'm willing to be patient with him and hope for some improvement in his second year.

 

His play in the Raiders game was particularly impressive:

 

 

[Superman]

51 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

He definitely struggled early on, but towards the end of the year his play did improve, especially in the run game. He may not be much more than a rotational guy moving forward unless he makes a huge leap in his coverage abilities, but considering he's on a cheap rookie deal, I'm willing to be patient with him and hope for some improvement in his second year.

 

His play in the Raiders game was particularly impressive:

 

 

 

He didn't move more than 10 yards on any of those plays. He's a typical phone booth guy. Get him out to the numbers and he's a liability. He's not awful, but I don't think you can win with a guy like that as a starting ILB. 

 

Then again, Dont'a Hightower is a phone booth guy...

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Just now, Superman said:

 

He didn't move more than 10 yards on any of those plays. He's a typical phone booth guy. Get him out to the numbers and he's a liability. He's not awful, but I don't think you can win with a guy like that as a starting ILB. 

 

Then again, Dont'a Hightower is a phone booth guy...

 

This is true, but if you watch video earlier in the season in similar situations, he looks completely lost and is whiffing on tackles left and right. In that regard he definitely took a step forward towards the end of the season as he got more reps.

 

I'd like to think that he'll get looser and more comfortable moving forward, since rookies tend to overthink things instead of just reacting, which slows them down a lot. I'm hoping that was the case with Morrison, but he very well could end up being seen as expendable by Ballard.

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

This is true, but if you watch video earlier in the season in similar situations, he looks completely lost and is whiffing on tackles left and right. In that regard he definitely took a step forward towards the end of the season as he got more reps.

 

I'd like to think that he'll get looser and more comfortable moving forward, since rookies tend to overthink things instead of just reacting, which slows them down a lot. I'm hoping that was the case with Morrison, but he very well could end up being seen as expendable by Ballard.

 

Yeah, he got better and was even playing well toward the end of the season. I just don't think he has the range and athleticism needed to be a good ILB in the NFL. He's a downhill thumper, and I think players like that have limited usefulness. 

[ztboiler]

58 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

This is true, but if you watch video earlier in the season in similar situations, he looks completely lost and is whiffing on tackles left and right. In that regard he definitely took a step forward towards the end of the season as he got more reps.

 

I'd like to think that he'll get looser and more comfortable moving forward, since rookies tend to overthink things instead of just reacting, which slows them down a lot. I'm hoping that was the case with Morrison, but he very well could end up being seen as expendable by Ballard.

I get the conventional wisdom about the game slowing down for young players....but let's not accuse Morrison of over thinking anything...ever.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 minute ago, ztboiler said:

I get the conventional wisdom about the game slowing down for young players....but let's not accuse Morrison of over thinking anything...ever.

 

Fair point.