Would You Trade Manning And 2 1St Rnd And A 2Nd Picks For Luck?

[Kyle]

I know there are many threads on this but I have never read it quite like I look at it. Just wanted to give my opinion and then here some responses.

Bottom line is we have a choice here. As of now we have Manning and the #1 pick.

We could draft Luck and release Manning but the trade value of the 1st pick is AT LEAST 2 1st round picks and a 2nd. So the choice is Luck or Manning and 3 picks. Basically by drafting Luck we would be trading Manning, 2 1st rnd, and a 2nd for him.

Without the media trying to spin this into peyton retiring, all signs point towards him playing this year. I just dont see how giving up Manning, 2 1st round, and a 2nd for Luck makes sense.

Someone please tell me why Luck is a better choice than Manning and 3 new studs....

[Jaric]

You know we can just draft Andrew Luck right? We have the first pick and don't have to trade up for him.

[Tony Sullivan]

You know we can just draft Andrew Luck right? We have the first pick and don't have to trade up for him.

What he is saying is if we trade the pick we'llhave manning two first and one second. If we use the pick we'll have just luck minus manning another first and another second

[Kyle]

What he is saying is if we trade the pick we'llhave manning two first and one second. If we use the pick we'll have just luck minus manning another first and another second

this^

signing manning and trading down to, lets say cleveland, gains us 2 1st and a 2nd (at least). by drafting luck we obviously didnt trade down and probly didnt resign manning... so one hand we could have Manning and 2 1st, the other we have Luck and no 1st...

[pacolts56]

I know there are many threads on this but I have never read it quite like I look at it. Just wanted to give my opinion and then here some responses.

Bottom line is we have a choice here. As of now we have Manning and the #1 pick.

We could draft Luck and release Manning but the trade value of the 1st pick is AT LEAST 2 1st round picks and a 2nd. So the choice is Luck or Manning and 3 picks. Basically by drafting Luck we would be trading Manning, 2 1st rnd, and a 2nd for him.

Without the media trying to spin this into peyton retiring, all signs point towards him playing this year. I just dont see how giving up Manning, 2 1st round, and a 2nd for Luck makes sense.

Someone please tell me why Luck is a better choice than Manning and 3 new studs....

Because it looks like it will require a salary-cap hit of 17 million dollars (and thats just next year) to find out whether Peyton Manning can even play football anymore.

And despite any bold proclamations you will see on this Forum.... right now NO ONE KNOWS Peyton's medical outcome good or bad.

Now.....if we release Manning AND trade the #1 pick.... then as a Colts fan I'll support the players we take even if I disagree with the move.

[Kyle]

i will

Because it looks like it will require a salary-cap hit of 17 million dollars (and thats just next year) to find out whether Peyton Manning can even play football anymore.

And despite any bold proclamations you will see on this Forum.... right now NO ONE KNOWS Peyton's medical outcome good or bad.

Now.....if we release Manning AND trade the #1 pick.... then as a Colts fan I'll support the players we take even if I disagree with the move.

dont get me wrong. im standing behind the colts no matter where manning/luck ends up.

[Kyle]

And despite any bold proclamations you will see on this Forum.... right now NO ONE KNOWS Peyton's medical outcome good or bad.

i will be shocked if he cannot play. with all of today's medical technology and peyton's basically unlimited resources I feel there is a way way way smaller chance of him not playing than what the media is reporting. 90% chance of him playing next season IMO

[Dan]

Now.....if we release Manning AND trade the #1 pick.... then as a Colts fan I'll support the players we take even if I disagree with the move.

And this, ladies and gentleman, is what makes a "true fan". You're not a "true fan" because you respect all that Manning has done for us so we should stick by him no matter what. You're not a "true fan" if you think we should throw him out without thinking just to build for the future. You're a true fan if whatever happens, you support the team.

[IndyTrav]

Or Cleveland would just keep all those picks since they are so valuable and they are trying to build a team as well......But thats never been an option 'round here......

[GoDeep]

I have been hearing that Manning is done...so this may be a non-issue.

[Kyle]

I have been hearing that Manning is done...so this may be a non-issue.

C'MON MAN!!!!!!!!! all i believe is what i have heard Peyton say. everything else is speculation and opinions based on others speculation and opinions. Peyton has said nothing other than that he is going to play!

[DILLIGAFER]

And this, ladies and gentleman, is what makes a "true fan". You're not a "true fan" because you respect all that Manning has done for us so we should stick by him no matter what. You're not a "true fan" if you think we should throw him out without thinking just to build for the future. You're a true fan if whatever happens, you support the team.

A shucks.. guess im not a true fan. Darn it all to heck.

[pacolts56]

i will be shocked if he cannot play. with all of today's medical technology and peyton's basically unlimited resources I feel there is a way way way smaller chance of him not playing than what the media is reporting. 90% chance of him playing next season IMO

And thats a totally fair outlook.... I hope you're right.

But we gotta also see Jim Irsay's side of it and that March 8th deadline. I'd love a situation where we could renegotiate a 1-2 year deal and let Peyton take all the time he needs to heal up without our salary cap taking a beating. AT least that way we can shore up some other areas because God knows we need that.

The situation doesn't allow for a renegotiation..... and in light of so many changes I'm pretty sure we're moving forward without him. At least thats what it looks like.

[TheNextGM]

I'll support whatever they do... if they trade down and draft a bunch of D studs I'd be ok with that! If they draft Luck I'm ok with that!

[JTcardscolts]

I know there are many threads on this but I have never read it quite like I look at it. Just wanted to give my opinion and then here some responses.

Bottom line is we have a choice here. As of now we have Manning and the #1 pick.

We could draft Luck and release Manning but the trade value of the 1st pick is AT LEAST 2 1st round picks and a 2nd. So the choice is Luck or Manning and 3 picks. Basically by drafting Luck we would be trading Manning, 2 1st rnd, and a 2nd for him.

Without the media trying to spin this into peyton retiring, all signs point towards him playing this year. I just dont see how giving up Manning, 2 1st round, and a 2nd for Luck makes sense.

Someone please tell me why Luck is a better choice than Manning and 3 new studs....

I get what your saying, and completely agree with all of it....

Until Peyton says hes done...and only Peyton....in my mind he'll be on the field next year in blue and white.

Go head say I'm in denial, and I'll say your right. I'm denying everybody else the opportunity to make my up for me...

As them kind folks from Missouri would say...show me.

[Kyle]

And thats a totally fair outlook.... I hope you're right.

But we gotta also see Jim Irsay's side of it and that March 8th deadline. I'd love a situation where we could renegotiate a 1-2 year deal and let Peyton take all the time he needs to heal up without our salary cap taking a beating. AT least that way we can shore up some other areas because God knows we need that.

The situation doesn't allow for a renegotiation..... and in light of so many changes I'm pretty sure we're moving forward without him. At least thats what it looks like.

I see Jim Irsay's side of things too but I have no problem with Jim risking 28 mil of his money...

[ViriLudant]

i will be shocked if he cannot play. with all of today's medical technology and peyton's basically unlimited resources I feel there is a way way way smaller chance of him not playing than what the media is reporting. 90% chance of him playing next season IMO

Nothing can force a nerve to regenerate. It does so on its own time-frame, or may not.

[pacolts56]

I see Jim Irsay's side of things too but I have no problem with Jim risking 28 mil of his money...

LOL..... yes, one of life's easier things to do.

[Blue Horseshoe]

And thats a totally fair outlook.... I hope you're right.

But we gotta also see Jim Irsay's side of it and that March 8th deadline. I'd love a situation where we could renegotiate a 1-2 year deal and let Peyton take all the time he needs to heal up without our salary cap taking a beating. AT least that way we can shore up some other areas because God knows we need that.

The situation doesn't allow for a renegotiation..... and in light of so many changes I'm pretty sure we're moving forward without him. At least thats what it looks like.

I would think he would want the most marketable player the franchise will probably ever have on the field unless it is completely.impossible.

[pacolts56]

I would think he would want the most marketable player the franchise will probably ever have on the field unless it is completely.impossible.

I'm sure he does.... but that 17 million dollar cap hit DOES impede our ability to put better players around the very guy we're talking about.

I know its 20/20 hindsight but that bonus hurts us on a lot of levels.

Even if Peyton were to show up tomorrow able to zing the ball as strong as ever.... the team still needs immediate improvement in several areas that its doubtful draft picks alone could solve.

At best.... we were looking at 2-3 quality years. We don't even know if we'd get that at this point.

[JTcardscolts]

At best.... we were looking at 2-3 quality years. We don't even know if we'd get that at this point.

That is your opinion you don't know if he's good for 2-3 or 5-6...

[HungarianColtsFan]

I know there are many aspects of keeping/trading Manning issue.

But:

Seems like we have a competent coaching staff for next season, and a team, that is basicly the same whit the team that reached SB in 2008. Hopefully D will be boosted, and with Manning this team should have high hopes in the playoffs.

Shall we trade Manning in??? Shall we send him away, saying "You are too old. You are the past???"

Some says he would employed by a team, that has chance for SB... I dont think so, those teams have proven QBs and they wouldn't switch to Manning.

So, shall we send Manning away to a medium or worse team, and not to provide him a chance to end his carreer graceful?

Maybe I'm too sentimentalic, but this would be the worst message he could ever have here, even worse than Irsay not speeking him for a fortnight.

If he is healthy, and feels himself ready to play, we should give him a chance.

[pacolts56]

That is your opinion you don't know if he's good for 2-3 or 5-6...

You're right.... I don't know but its probably realistic.

The point was it will cost 17 million salary cap dollars to find out. And THAT is only next year's cap hit.

We have Reggie, Mathis and others that need to be resigned or let go AND the weaknesses at CB/OG/DT/SS to address.

And even a trade down of the #1 pick would realistically require a season or two for those prospects to develop.

Taking that overall picture into account.... and how QB-centric we've been over the years.... I think Irsay is making the right long term decision if he decides that we release Peyton Manning and begin a full rebuild with his rehab status so cloudy.

And I say that with full respect and appreciation for what Manning has done for the Colts and the city.

[JTcardscolts]

You're right.... I don't know but its probably realistic.

The point was it will cost 17 million salary cap dollars to find out. And THAT is only next year's cap hit.

We have Reggie, Mathis and others that need to be resigned or let go AND the weaknesses at CB/OG/DT/SS to address.

And even a trade down of the #1 pick would realistically require a season or two for those prospects to develop.

Taking that overall picture into account.... and how QB-centric we've been over the years.... I think Irsay is making the right long term decision if he decides that we release Peyton Manning and begin a full rebuild with his rehab status so cloudy.

And I say that with full repsect and appreciation for what Manning has done for the Colts and the city.

I understand the money aspect of it, do u think PM wouldn't be willing to take a pay cut for more SB runs? After all is was Irsay who wanted to pay Peyton that much.

Now to my next point cause you just made it...

QB centric, thats what I've been saying all along. You want to give up 4 1st round draft picks for 1 QB. Sounds QB centric to me...

And rookies tend to make and immediate impact on defense.

And for the record I agree with you about centering your team around one player(QB), Peyton or no Peyton I think they should trade that pick. But that's just MO.

[Jaric]

What he is saying is if we trade the pick we'llhave manning two first and one second. If we use the pick we'll have just luck minus manning another first and another second

I understand that, but it's not that simple.

[UndecidedFrog]

I know there are many threads on this but I have never read it quite like I look at it. Just wanted to give my opinion and then here some responses.

Bottom line is we have a choice here. As of now we have Manning and the #1 pick.

We could draft Luck and release Manning but the trade value of the 1st pick is AT LEAST 2 1st round picks and a 2nd. So the choice is Luck or Manning and 3 picks. Basically by drafting Luck we would be trading Manning, 2 1st rnd, and a 2nd for him.

Without the media trying to spin this into peyton retiring, all signs point towards him playing this year. I just dont see how giving up Manning, 2 1st round, and a 2nd for Luck makes sense.

Someone please tell me why Luck is a better choice than Manning and 3 new studs....

That is an unfair comparison.

The full disclosure comparison is this:

Plan A:

Knowing that Manning will be 36 years old in 2012, and has been out of football for all last season, and is coming off 3 neck surgeries,

keep Manning, pay him the $28MM bonus on March 8, locking him up for the next 4 years, which will set into stone the following cap hits if he plays out the term of the contract:

2012: $17MM

2013: $18MM

2014: $19MM

2015: $20MM

If he cannot play after you paid him in March, and he is cut/released/retires before:

1) June 1, 2012, the cap hit will be $38.4MM.

2) June 1, 2013, the cap hit will be $28.8MM.

3) June 1, 2014, the cap hit will be $19.2MM.

4) June 1, 2015, the cap hit will be $9.6MM.

In addition, from trading the pick, you get 2 first round and 1 second round pick, which will put more pressure on the cap if you sign them.

Plan B:

Release Manning before March 8, resulting in a 2012 cap hit of $10.4MM (and nothing else after).

Draft a potential franchise QB (all draftees are by definition unproven) with the 1st overall pick, and sign him to a contract that is 5% over what Cam Newton got last year, which will set into stone the following cap hits:

2012: $4.2MM

2013: $5.3MM

2014: $6.3MM

2015: $7.4MM

Use the difference in cap space to sign additional FAs.

[No 1 Manning Fan]

And this, ladies and gentleman, is what makes a "true fan". You're not a "true fan" because you respect all that Manning has done for us so we should stick by him no matter what. You're not a "true fan" if you think we should throw him out without thinking just to build for the future. You're a true fan if whatever happens, you support the team.

Amen. It's alright to be angry about the decisions of your team, it's alright to be upset when your team loses. The bottom line you support your team.

[GoColts8818]

If Peyton was healthy no. With that said it doesn't sound like Peyton Manning is healthy. I have been saying and will keep saying the Colts are not picking Andrew Luck over Peyton Manning. They are picking Andrew Luck because Peyton Manning doesn't look to be healthy.

Look Peyton Manning's health has nothing to do with the fact there is a star QB n the draft. That was going to be an issue either way. In fact I honestly think if Peyton Manning is healthy on March 8th Irsay is going to keep Peyton Manning and want to draft Andrew Luck and have both so that we have our QB of the future going forward.

If anything Andrew Luck (or maybe RG3) is the lone bright spot in this mess. Not because they are going to be better than Peyton Manning. Not because people want them more than Peyton Manning. But because Peyton Manning sadly doesn't look to be healthy and might not be able to play again. We have a chance to get the guy who is being called the best draft prospect since Manning or Elway. You know what kinda odds you would have had to think that one Franchise could draft the three "can't miss" prospects at QB?

Where would be right now if Luck wasn't in this draft. Say he came out early last year and RG3 went back to school with the others. We would be looking at a huge hole at the QB spot without Peyton Manning because yes his health would still be an issue with no clear cut QB to replace him.

No one wants Peyton Manning to leave. It's a horriable situation. No one likes it. With that said if he has to leave and we can have Andrew Luck, well life could be a lot worse because Peyton Manning might still have to leave and we might have nothing to replace him with.

[pacolts56]

I understand the money aspect of it, do u think PM wouldn't be willing to take a pay cut for more SB runs? After all is was Irsay who wanted to pay Peyton that much.

Now to my next point cause you just made it...

QB centric, thats what I've been saying all along. You want to give up 4 1st round draft picks for 1 QB. Sounds QB centric to me...

And rookies tend to make and immediate impact on defense.

And for the record I agree with you about centering your team around one player(QB), Peyton or no Peyton I think they should trade that pick. But that's just MO.

First of all....they cannot renegotiate a new deal within the same league year regardless of whether Peyton wants to or not. That is part of the reason we're in this mess, besides of course his injury.

And the bonus clause that has us in this impossible March 8th timeframe was reportedly at the insistence of Manning and his agent Tom Condon....not the team.

As far as being QB-centric....we're not doing that by merely drafting Andrew Luck with the 1st pick instead of trading down. If we pick Luck we can be reasonably sure Peyton will have been released and we are in a 100% rebuild. Someone has to play QB and IMO Luck is the best guy to draft for that...and he much more than any other QB prospect has operated a very balanced offense, including calling and audibling plays.

To your concern, and its a fair one....if we do draft Luck and then continue to pay little or no attention to a credible and consistent rushing attack along with acquiring O-linemen who primarily pass block, and then pass the ball 40-50 times a game.... then yes, we would be back to the VERY pass-heavy offense we've had with Peyton, which whether anyone wants to acknowledge or not, costed us 1-2 playoff games. I highly doubt we will repeat that mistake.

But there is plenty of room for different opinions on whether to select Luck or trade the pick and draft 4-5 other prospects. IMO.... we have a full rebuild under way and with the nbew rookie salary cap, I highly prefer we start with drafting Luck but also building a well-balanced team, which that rookie cap should help us do.

[UKCOLT17]

even is manning is healthy all it takes is one hit and thats it and then we traded this picks and got no good back ups there is good and bad no one knows whats going to happen but how i see it is peyton is 36 hes getting to the end of his career anyway so id rather take a qb for the future but only one person knows whats happening and thats the owner.

[Portage Coltfans]

And this, ladies and gentleman, is what makes a "true fan". You're not a "true fan" because you respect all that Manning has done for us so we should stick by him no matter what. You're not a "true fan" if you think we should throw him out without thinking just to build for the future. You're a true fan if whatever happens, you support the team.

so if the team doesnt keep manning or draft luck/rgIII and then brings back kerry collins again to start, then you will support them?

[Portage Coltfans]

If you want an example of a "true Fan" it has to be anyone who has season tickets for the pittsburg Pirates

[Dan]

so if the team doesnt keep manning or draft luck/rgIII and then brings back kerry collins again to start, then you will support them?

Um, yes? It'd be a stupid thing to do but I'm not gonna go "I disagree with this, therefore you are not worthy of my time." It's called loyalty - though granted my faith in Irsay's sanity will be long gone.

[Portage Coltfans]

Um, yes? It'd be a stupid thing to do but I'm not gonna go "I disagree with this, therefore you are not worthy of my time." It's called loyalty - though granted my faith in Irsay's sanity will be long gone.

I think loyalty has to go both ways though, as in any relationship.

[wercolts]

Better idea. Keep Manning, draft Luck, 3 more #1's and 3 #2's, and dump Gonzalez, Vinatieri, Wheeler, Diem, Lefeged, Linkenbach, and Wayne if he wants too much, Also dump a bunch of ST only guys that help the Colts place near last every year in ST categories. Continue to hire coaches that evaluate, coach and motivate better than the previous bunch and start 2012 with a proven winner, an expected future winner, and a roster with the right veterans to mentor hungry young players.

[UndecidedFrog]

0

[UndecidedFrog]

Better idea. Keep Manning, draft Luck, 3 more #1's and 3 #2's, and dump Gonzalez, Vinatieri, Wheeler, Diem, Lefeged, Linkenbach, and Wayne if he wants too much, Also dump a bunch of ST only guys that help the Colts place near last every year in ST categories. Continue to hire coaches that evaluate, coach and motivate better than the previous bunch and start 2012 with a proven winner, an expected future winner, and a roster with the right veterans to mentor hungry young players.

Keep Peyton, draft Luck, and where do you get the 3 more #1s and 3#2s?

[Coffeedrinker]

I know there are many threads on this but I have never read it quite like I look at it. Just wanted to give my opinion and then here some responses.

Bottom line is we have a choice here. As of now we have Manning and the #1 pick.

We could draft Luck and release Manning but the trade value of the 1st pick is AT LEAST 2 1st round picks and a 2nd. So the choice is Luck or Manning and 3 picks. Basically by drafting Luck we would be trading Manning, 2 1st rnd, and a 2nd for him.

Without the media trying to spin this into peyton retiring, all signs point towards him playing this year. I just dont see how giving up Manning, 2 1st round, and a 2nd for Luck makes sense.

Someone please tell me why Luck is a better choice than Manning and 3 new studs....

I will preface with, I'm not against any trade of the picks but there is some faulty logic here:

1. You're assuming the Browns would make the trade. Why would they give up 3 studs for Luck?

2. The Draft value chart says that the Browns two 1st rounds and 2nd round is worth more than the number one pick. So, if the Browns wanted to trade it would be more likely the two 1st rounders and a 3rd and a 5th.

3. You're assuming the 3 players taken are studs.

4. You're assuming that if the Colts draft Luck that means no Manning.

Those are some big assumptions. As fans we have that luxury, the owner and GM do not. Look at it this way. Think back to 1998. Would you have rather the Colts drafted Manning or kept Harbaugh and drafted, Charles Woodson, Tebucky Jones and Robert Holcolmb? (Yes i know Manning is better than Harbaugh).

[wercolts]

Keep Peyton, draft Luck, and where do you get the 3 more #1s and 3#2s?

The Colts pick 1st in every odd round and 2nd in the evens. Lots of great players weren't 1 rounders

[UndecidedFrog]

The Colts pick 1st in every odd round and 2nd in the evens. Lots of great players weren't 1 rounders

Oh, OK.

I originally interpreted 3#1s and 3#2s as 3 first rounders and 3 second rounders (presumably from a trade of the #1 overall pick)

I was thinking, where does a team get all those picks?

My bad.