For the Colts to win the division.....

[Defjamz26]

The Colts would have to hope the Texans lose out and that they somehow win out the rest of their games (which ain't happening). Plus the Titans have a 1 game lead over us too. We're essentially fighting for 2nd or 3rd place in the AFC South, which is sadly something Grigson or Pagano would use as a reason why we weren't that bad after the season.

[Yoshinator]

31 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Because they are 5-0 at home and 0-3 on the road with 5 road games left

Don't try and sugercoat it. Their 3 road losses were to Denver, New England, and Minnesota. Whether those games were at home or on the road they were losing. They beat Chicago, KC, Tenn, Det, and Indy at home. Weaker set of opponents, but opponents who we lose too in that category. It just so happens so far, the road are much harder than the home games. If they were reversed, the result would be the same though.

[Yoshinator]

36 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Because there's no significant difference between picking 5th and 15th...if its not a QB

I don't care about a Top-13 pick. We'll pick in the first round...(and we can move up in the 1st round with a deal)

I'll take the division title and the '2nd' best LB.......You can only pick one guy to fill one need.....

 

Sports isn't about throwing games for draft position. Making the post-season is the goal of every pro franchise and I like it like that..

To say that we don't want to make the playoffs because we cant possibly win anything anyway.

That logic only work on a message board.

 

This isn't true, there's a huge advantage between 5th and 15th if you know what you're doing. The reason the bottom 5 teams never compete with the high end talent they draft is because they don't have a franchise qb. Once the Seahawks got Russell Wilson, they started competing and made two SB's and won one. The Raiders had multiple early draft picks. Once they drafted Derek Carr, the rest fell together and guys like Khalil Mack and Amari Cooper started dominating as well. If the QB develops, the other high end talent stands out as well. Notice we don't have any high end talent besides Kelly, Mewhort, Moncrief, Hilton, and Anderson in 5 years of drafting besides Luck? That's due to drafting low and a lower % of hitting on these picks. Even Luck can't raise their game. You need time to develop a team, we didn't do it and now it's biting us in the backside.

 

2011, 5th pick was Patrick Peterson, and 15th pick was Mike Pouncey. 2012 draft, Justin Blackmon (bust), vs Bruce Irvin (a one dimensional pass rusher). However, Keuchly, Poe and Fletcher Cox were available between 5-15, so that was a poor choice. The opportunity was there, and with a good GM, we can take advantage of that and choose the correct player. 2013, Ezekiel Ansah at 5 vs Kenny Vaccaro at 15. This is self explanatory. Sheldon Richardson and Star Lotuleleiei go 1 and 2 picks before the 15th pick as well, making them unavailable. 2014, This one is perfect as they are the same position and the perfect example. 5th pick is Khalil Mack and the 15th pick is Ryan Shazier. That's the downgrade you get at OLB when going down from 5 to 15.

 

Now, despite this downgrade in talent, we never even had the 15th pick. We were picking lower than that. Anyone wonder why our roster is so bad? Some of you guys want to continue down that road and get a mediocre, maybe above average first rounder that has a better chance of busting so we lose in the first round of the playoffs. That's just awful, and makes that type of person very naive, or if they truly understand what they are saying, a bad fan. Disagreeing opinions is ok, I'm stating facts, and the facts are we aren't contending and we need serious upgrades in the draft. This team needs an injection of talent. I hate to say it, but we need to be more like the Raiders. They are what we used to be right now, and improving.

[UKColt13]

I have us going 6-10, which should land us a top 8 pick.

 

I don't want us in the playoffs this year.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, UKColt13 said:

I have us going 6-10, which should land us a top 8 pick.

 

I don't want us in the playoffs this year.

This is exactly what I have us at. We'll win 2 of our 3 remaining divisional games, and one game outside the division. Top 8 pick wouldn't be horrible if we hit on it. Also have to remember in each subsequent round we'd have a top 8 pick as well, so better opportunity there to pick a high end talent from the previous round that fell.

[UKColt13]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

This is exactly what I have us at. We'll win 2 of our 3 remaining divisional games, and one game outside the division. Top 8 pick wouldn't be horrible if we hit on it. Also have to remember in each subsequent round we'd have a top 8 pick as well, so better opportunity there to pick a high end talent from the previous round that fell.

 

I don't get people who are still after winning the division this year. If we win the division we are automatically a pick in the 20s-ish. Id much rather have a top 8 pick than in the 20s. Especially if its only a difference of 2-3 wins.

 

Also if we make the playoffs, it gives Irsay the excuse he needs to say that keeping PagsGrigs was a good thing, since we didn't make the playoffs last year and technically its an improvement.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, UKColt13 said:

 

I don't get people who are still after winning the division this year. If we win the division we are automatically a pick in the 20s-ish. Id much rather have a top 8 pick than in the 20s. Especially if its only a difference of 2-3 wins.

 

Also if we make the playoffs, it gives Irsay the excuse he needs to say that keeping PagsGrigs was a good thing, since we didn't make the playoffs last year and technically its an improvement.

You get it 100%. People want to satisfy their short term desires and get a playoff appearance now rather than rebuild (or retool) for a year, grab some high end pass rushers (including two high, quality talents in the 1st two rounds), and go full force next year. This year, we don't have the talent, it's just not happening. Get Pagano and Grigs out at the end of the season, get competent management in, get a new draft under them, and please get Luck a team around him! People are literally clueless sometimes when it comes to this.

[braveheartcolt]

5 minutes ago, UKColt13 said:

 

I don't get people who are still after winning the division this year. If we win the division we are automatically a pick in the 20s-ish. Id much rather have a top 8 pick than in the 20s. Especially if its only a difference of 2-3 wins.

 

Also if we make the playoffs, it gives Irsay the excuse he needs to say that keeping PagsGrigs was a good thing, since we didn't make the playoffs last year and technically its an improvement.

It doesn't not matter what people want. It will not make one iota of a difference where we finish, where we pick, and who we pick. Just watch the darn season and take it from there......

 

Although after Sunday, we could be challenging Cleveland for the first pick.....

 

[tikyle]

2 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Because there's no significant difference between picking 5th and 15th...if its not a QB

I don't care about a Top-13 pick. We'll pick in the first round...(and we can move up in the 1st round with a deal)

I'll take the division title and the '2nd' best LB.......You can only pick one guy to fill one need.....

 

Sports isn't about throwing games for draft position. Making the post-season is the goal of every pro franchise and I like it like that..

To say that we don't want to make the playoffs because we cant possibly win anything anyway.

That logic only work on a message board.

 

Being the 12th best team to make a tournament of 12 is not much incentive.  It's not like this team doesn't have playoff experience.  There would be almost nothing to gain from this team making the playoffs.  And it would actually be hurtful b/c it would send the message that this team was good enough this year to be the best in the AFC South.  This squad doesn't deserve that accolade and if it gets it without drastically improving it could be a detriment. 

 

Oh and here's the difference between the 20th pick and the 12th or 13th pick.

2012 Kendall Wright (20) vs Fletcher Cox (12)

2013 Kyle Long (20) vs Sheldon Richardson (13)

2014 Brandin Cooks (20) vs Odell Beckham (12)

2015 Nelson Agholor (20) vs Dany Shelton (12)

2016 Darron Lee (20) vs Laremy Tunsil (13)

 

I would say that is a huge difference in talent.

[tikyle]

Double post

[rockywoj]

Before the last couple of weeks, a strong argument could have been made that despite playing as bad as the Colts had, they very realistically should have won those games against Detroit, Jacksonville, & Houston.   Thus, right now instead of 3-5, they'd be at 6-2.  At 6-2 the commentary is entirely different.   However, after that rough start, and blowing that all important division match against the Texans, they struggled to beat the Titans and looked god awful in losing to Kansas City.

 

I think the ongoing sample size is now big enough to say they ARE what their record says they are ... a struggling, flawed team sitting at 3-5 at the midway point of the season.  I don't think 8-8 wins the division, but 9-7 might. Honestly, though, based on what I have thus far seen, there is simply no way this Colts version is capable of going 6-2 during their remaining 8 games.  I just cannot see it happening.

 

I'd love to see them win out, or go 7-1, or even 6-2 and make the playoffs, but without a thought, I would at this point be willing to bet a lot of money that they will be worse than 6-2 over the second half of the season.   I hope I am wrong, but sadly they have sold me on the fact that this year's Colts are who their current record says they are.  :-(

 

Unlike a lot of crazies at these forums, though, I would HATE to see them simply throw the rest of the year for a higher draft pick.   Doing that would make them even bigger losers than they currently are and advocating such is also, imho, a total LOSER attitude.

[gacoop1]

For the Colts to win the AFC Division in 2017, they need to fire Pags and Grigs now and hire a new HC and a new GM quickly..  This team will be 6-10 easily and that's a generous prediction.

[King Colt]

Let's stop beating a dead horse. I thought perhaps there is a chance but the pudding pants performance against KC convinced me they are dead. I posted that week the Colts are due for a rebound and actually believed it. To me that game in Indy, told the story for the season and maybe a few more seasons to come. Send flowers.

[Yoshinator]

11 minutes ago, gacoop1 said:

For the Colts to win the AFC Division in 2017, they need to fire Pags and Grigs now and hire a new HC and a new GM quickly..  This team will be 6-10 easily and that's a generous prediction.

To win the AFC, we'll have to draft 2 incredible players on defense. Players like a Khalil Mack and a Jalen Ramsey and have them break out their first year. Even that might not be enough.

[OLD FAN MAN]

On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 8:05 PM, jbaron04 said:

Lol if the colts dont end up with a top 5-10 pick i would be surprized this team is bad 

I concur

[Catloaf]

All hope died with the loss to KC.  It will take something short of a Bob Sanders resurrection to get this team into the playoffs now.  And to what end?  Are we seriously going to beat the Pats, or pray to the football gods someone else can do it for us before we have to face them in an AFCCG?

 

Nope.

[OLD FAN MAN]

3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

This is exactly what I have us at. We'll win 2 of our 3 remaining divisional games, and one game outside the division. Top 8 pick wouldn't be horrible if we hit on it. Also have to remember in each subsequent round we'd have a top 8 pick as well, so better opportunity there to pick a high end talent from the previous round that fell.

it does not matter if we have a high pick if grigs picks it, another grigs first round bust on the way

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, FACE REALITY said:

it does not matter if we have a high pick if grigs picks it, another grigs first round bust on the way

More than likely. Luck was so simple that 99.9% of people chose him without hindsight, and a high number of people here wanted Kelly. Even people like me who wanted Jack Conklin would of hit on the draft there if he had fallen. Those first round misses have killed us. Almost like we are the Redskins with RGIII losing 3 consecutive 1st round picks (2013-2015).

[Yoshinator]

7 minutes ago, Catloaf said:

All hope died with the loss to KC.  It will take something short of a Bob Sanders resurrection to get this team into the playoffs now.  And to what end?  Are we seriously going to beat the Pats, or pray to the football gods someone else can do it for us before we have to face them in an AFCCG?

 

Nope.

The problem is, we wouldn't beat the Steelers, KC, and possibly not even a team like the Raiders or Broncos. Another high quality draft is needed to catch up to the big dogs in a way where we can compete. Guess what, if we whiff on that draft, we're going to fall even further behind them, and more importantly, the AFC South.

[OLD FAN MAN]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

More than likely. Luck was so simple that 99.9% of people chose him without hindsight, and a high number of people here wanted Kelly. Even people like me who wanted Jack Conklin would of hit on the draft there if he had fallen. Those first round misses have killed us. Almost like we are the Redskins with RGIII losing 3 consecutive 1st round picks (2013-2015).

I agree, grigs cant judge talent

[Catloaf]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The problem is, we wouldn't beat the Steelers, KC, and possibly not even a team like the Raiders or Broncos. Another high quality draft is needed to catch up to the big dogs in a way where we can compete. Guess what, if we whiff on that draft, we're going to fall even further behind them, and more importantly, the AFC South.

This is what terrifies me.  In the past we could at least say "well at least we have a good draft pick."  As of right now that means nothing with a GM that doesn't know how to draft talent.  Without that salvation there's very little hope of turning things around.

[Yoshinator]

7 minutes ago, Catloaf said:

This is what terrifies me.  In the past we could at least say "well at least we have a good draft pick."  As of right now that means nothing with a GM that doesn't know how to draft talent.  Without that salvation there's very little hope of turning things around.

Yeah, it's a bit hypocritical to say, but I draft like Grigson in a lot of my picks, so when I say Grigson can't draft, I'm saying I can't draft. However I expect more out of him then drafting at my level. A lot of his picks have looked solid early, but then they fall apart as they grow instead of getting better. This is on Pagano, IMO. I don't know where the underlying factor is where our team has been terrible, but I think it's Grigson misses on some picks, doesn't draft properly, then Pagano doesn't develop the picks properly. It's a whole cluster of crap that is ruining the team from the ground up. Time to pull out the roots if they can't change their ways.

[SkyBane]

4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yeah, it's a bit hypocritical to say, but I draft like Grigson in a lot of my picks, so when I say Grigson can't draft, I'm saying I can't draft. However I expect more out of him then drafting at my level. A lot of his picks have looked solid early, but then they fall apart as they grow instead of getting better. This is on Pagano, IMO. I don't know where the underlying factor is where our team has been terrible, but I think it's Grigson misses on some picks, doesn't draft properly, then Pagano doesn't develop the picks properly. It's a whole cluster of crap that is ruining the team from the ground up. Time to pull out the roots if they can't change their ways.

The thing is, I feel Grigson is entirely salvageable. The main reason he gets in trouble with drafting is he seems to fall in love with projects. The problem lies in that we don't have a coaching staff capable of developing projects, like perhaps they could at his previous stops (Remember, he was a scout for GM's that had coaches like Andy Reid).

 

You enter a quagmire at that point. Grigson has to go against his gut instinct to draft based on raw talent that can be developed, to match an inept coaching staff that isn't capable of the development. Now you could argue his love of projects is just a sign of a GM who reaches, and you would probably be right, but that's not the end of the world with the right coaches in place.

 

So it becomes chicken and egg, is Grigson at fault for taking on projects, or is Pagano at fault for being incapable of completing them? One is too ambitious, the other too incompetent.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, SkyBane said:

The thing is, I feel Grigson is entirely salvageable. The main reason he gets in trouble with drafting is he seems to fall in love with projects. The problem lies in that we don't have a coaching staff capable of developing projects, like perhaps they could at his previous stops (Remember, he was a scout for GM's that had coaches like Andy Reid).

 

You enter a quagmire at that point. Grigson has to go against his gut instinct to draft based on raw talent that can be developed, to match an inept coaching staff that isn't capable of the development. Now you could argue his love of projects is just a sign of a GM who reaches, and you would probably be right, but that's not the end of the world with the right coaches in place.

 

So it becomes chicken and egg, is Grigson at fault for taking on projects, or is Pagano at fault for being incapable of completing them? One is too ambitious, the other too incompetent.

If I had a choice of keeping one of them, It'd be Grigson 10 times out of 10. Ambitious is ok as long as you don't take a 3rd round talent in the 1st round or something. As long as he drafts average at least and providing Luck with adequate talent around him, then he's doing his job. My beef is with Pagano and the lack of development of our players. Basically all of them are below their possible potential at defense, and the offense has regressed with Luck a bit. It seems better without Dorsett and Allen. I think Pagano is the underlying problem. That's just my opinion though, and i don't know if it's the majority or minority anymore.

[GoBlue12]

Fagetabatit

[SkyBane]

11 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

If I had a choice of keeping one of them, It'd be Grigson 10 times out of 10. Ambitious is ok as long as you don't take a 3rd round talent in the 1st round or something. As long as he drafts average at least and providing Luck with adequate talent around him, then he's doing his job. My beef is with Pagano and the lack of development of our players. Basically all of them are below their possible potential at defense, and the offense has regressed with Luck a bit. It seems better without Dorsett and Allen. I think Pagano is the underlying problem. That's just my opinion though, and i don't know if it's the majority or minority anymore.

I'm of the same mind these days really. It's hard not to watch this team year on year continue to get worse with largely the same talent core, that continues to regress, and even shrink to nothing at random times. It's a team that rarely looks focused or prepared in the middle of games. Many want to peg Grigson for never bringing in talent, but that's not entirely the case. He's had a lot of 1 year wonders that never got over the hump to the next level.

 

The roster is an undeveloped, underachieving mess, and I'm sure it's just as frustrating to the players who all know they are better than what they are putting out.

[coltsfanatic24]

The season is over this is a 6-10 team at best. We are better off losing as many games as possible to get a top 5 pick. 

[Hoose]

The Colts aren't going to win their division. And for them to become competitive the D MUST get better linebackers. That means through the draft AND free agency. One free agent ILB and one free agent OLB. Then draft one of each early. They need a wholesale makeover. The decision to dump Freeman after the initial offer failed was a terrible decision by Grigson. Terrible. No one left who can cover a TE or RB. No pass rush either. This is THE huge weakness on the Colts. 

All one can hope for now is the development of Edwin Jackson and perhaps one of the other youngsters. Give them a chance to play this year and see what you have. Then proceed from there, hopefully as set out above. 

[JColts72]

1 hour ago, coltsfanatic24 said:

The season is over this is a 6-10 team at best. We are better off losing as many games as possible to get a top 5 pick. 

6 and 10 or 5 and 11 is about right.

[OLD FAN MAN]

2 hours ago, Catloaf said:

This is what terrifies me.  In the past we could at least say "well at least we have a good draft pick."  As of right now that means nothing with a GM that doesn't know how to draft talent.  Without that salvation there's very little hope of turning things around.

I concur

[Creekside]

Browns draft top five every year. Patriots draft bottom five every year. Its not about drafting high, its about drafting well.

[krunk]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

Browns draft top five every year. Patriots draft bottom five every year. Its not about drafting high, its about drafting well.

This I like!

[Kyle]

On 10/30/2016 at 8:06 PM, IndyD4U said:

Bet we draft a receiver 

We are going to pick Mike Williams out of Clemson

[JColts72]

Division for another year to come? Not this year Dreamers.

[rockywoj]

5 hours ago, FACE REALITY said:

I agree, grigs cant judge talent

 

Is Grigson solely responsible for the picks?  Or would it be more fair to say that Grigson, Pagano, Irsay, and the entire scouting staff cannot judge talent?  Seems to me that missing in the draft is a reflection of the entire scouting group, assuming that the final decision maker is not defying the advice of the scouting staff.

 

And here's a question for all you learned NFL Management gurus out there, when the GM changes, does the entire scouting crew also get fired / replaced?  If not, then how is it that replacing Grigson will all of a sudden magically fix the scouting staff's ability to judge talent?

[austriancolt]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Browns draft top five every year. Patriots draft bottom five every year. Its not about drafting high, its about drafting well.

 

It's not that easy. Patriots don't need to draft high because they have a great front office and a great coach and a great system in place. They have a fantastic system in which you can afford to throw in some unknown late round picks and it works. Colts don't have a great front office, don't have a great coach and well the system in place isn't working. Our system is that it all relies on our QB. With Patriots if Brady is out they bring in his backup and they still win most of their games because of the system...