Bruce Arians on MNF

[azcolt]

Watching the Cardinals last night brought back some great memories. Obviously Irsay couldn't keep him, but he seems to have everything Pagano lacks. Cue the Pagano defenders that Luck would have been sacked more in Arians system blah blah.

[#12.]

Never understood the Arians hatred on this forum.  Of course it seems many of the people who were hyper-critical of Arians were the same ones who defended Richardson, Werner and Grigson to their deaths.  Go figure. 

[CanuckColtsFan]

I like Arians, but he's got a. 3 and 3 record with a more talented team. It's not like he's completely out performing Pagano.

[Valpo2004]

48 minutes ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

I like Arians, but he's got a. 3 and 3 record with a more talented team. It's not like he's completely out performing Pagano.

 

Agreed. . . it is worth noting that the Cardinals have been under performing thus far.  

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 minute ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

I like Arians, but he's got a. 3 and 3 record with a more talented team. It's not like he's completely out performing Pagano.

 

I feel the same way. I've always considered the love for Arians to be somewhat of a "grass is always greener on the other side" situation. Sure, he filled in nicely for Indy, and his post-game pressers are more entertaining than the drivel that we get served up from our coach. But seriously, what has he accomplished in Arizona that the Colts haven't already done since he left? Outside of QB, he has a far better roster: elite RB, solid pass rush, great secondary, good o-line, etc. Yet we went to the AFCCG, and he's 1-2 in the playoffs. 

[CanuckColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Agreed. . . it is worth noting that the Cardinals have been under performing thus far.  

Don't get me wrong I like Arians. I'm just saying he's not a clear upgrade. Beating up on the hapless jets isn't impressive. 

[Valpo2004]

45 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I feel the same way. I've always considered the love for Arians to be somewhat of a "grass is always greener on the other side" situation. Sure, he filled in nicely for Indy, and his post-game pressers are more entertaining than the drivel that we get served up from our coach. But seriously, what has he accomplished in Arizona that the Colts haven't already done since he left? Outside of QB, he has a far better roster: elite RB, solid pass rush, great secondary, good o-line, etc. Yet we went to the AFCCG, and he's 1-2 in the playoffs. 

 

Agree on most everything, but you can write one of those playoff losses off because he was down to his 3rd QB. 

 

But even with his team healthy he hasn't gotten them all that far.  

 

Of course I will say it helps him because the Cardinals had a long stretch of time where they where absolutely terrible and they've been pretty happy winning most of their games and making the playoffs.  

[#12.]

Not a clear upgrade?  I'm not sure there is a human being alive outside this forum who wouldn't take Arians over Chuck. 

 

As always, if you are comparing talent, you need to remember - Cardinals, NFC West, Colts, AFC South.   When Chuck arrived, the AFC South was the worst division in football(still is).  When Arians arrived in Arizona, he walked into a pathetic team playing in the best division in football.  The guy won two coach of the year honors -  nearly won 3 in a row.  Outside of Belichick, he's about as respected as any HC in the league. 

 

Further, if you are comparing resumes and results, in reality, you need to give Arians the credit for Chuck's first year.  Arians stepped into a 1-3 team here. 

 

 

 

[21isSuperman]

1 hour ago, #12. said:

Never understood the Arians hatred on this forum.  Of course it seems many of the people who were hyper-critical of Arians were the same ones who defended Richardson, Werner and Grigson to their deaths.  Go figure. 

Not necessarily.  It wasn't hatred for Arians, but rather not liking his offense.  Lots of deep routes with a subpar OL mean lots of turnovers and hits on your QB.  I think Arians is generally well-liked on the forums, but his offense wasn't the greatest fit with the talent we had here, especially on the OL

[Myles]

23 minutes ago, #12. said:

Not a clear upgrade?  I'm not sure there is a human being alive outside this forum who wouldn't take Arians over Chuck. 

 

As always, if you are comparing talent, you need to remember - Cardinals, NFC West, Colts, AFC South.   When Chuck arrived, the AFC South was the worst division in football(still is).  When Arians arrived in Arizona, he walked into a pathetic team playing in the best division in football.  The guy won two coach of the year honors -  nearly won 3 in a row.  Outside of Belichick, he's about as respected as any HC in the league. 

 

Further, if you are comparing resumes and results, in reality, you need to give Arians the credit for Chuck's first year.  Arians stepped into a 1-3 team here. 

 

 

 

Spot on.   Arians his head and shoulders above Pagano.   Easy to see just watching his teams play.   Add to it his bringing in older experience to help (Tom Moore, Tom Pratt).   Very few with football knowledge would have chosen Pagano over Arians if not for Paganos illness.  

[Rackeen305]

1 hour ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

I like Arians, but he's got a. 3 and 3 record with a more talented team. It's not like he's completely out performing Pagano.

Well his record says at this point, he is. His current record is what we was hoping to have after last week's game. Stop hating on BA's success.  He makes you look jealous. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 minutes ago, Myles said:

Spot on.   Arians his head and shoulders above Pagano.   Easy to see just watching his teams play.   Add to it his bringing in older experience to help (Tom Moore, Tom Pratt).   Very few with football knowledge would have chosen Pagano over Arians if not for Paganos illness.  

Just curious but what do you think our record would be if we had Arizona's Defense instead of ours? Arians has unreal Defense that creates Turnovers. I think we would be 5-1 and pretty easily, Pagano would be looking like genius at this point.

[Rackeen305]

1 hour ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Agreed. . . it is worth noting that the Cardinals have been under performing thus far.  

If Cards are under performing then what are the Colts doing? 

 

I understand that you are a fan. I am too, but over looking the state of the teams 2-4 record doesn't make things better.

[Rackeen305]

BA looked damn good.  Winning is always good. Colts take notes.

[IinD]

17 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Just curious but what do you think our record would be if we had Arizona's Defense instead of ours? Arians has unreal Defense that creates Turnovers. I think we would be 5-1 and pretty easily, Pagano would be looking like genius at this point.

He'd probably screw it up.

 

We've steadily gone downhill since he's gotten here. 8 wins last year and probably looking at 8 (or less) again if we can win a few we shouldn't.

 

Everyone had their own opinions, but Pagano just isn't a solid HC.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, IinD said:

He'd probably screw it up.

 

We've steadily gone downhill since he's gotten here. 8 wins last year and probably looking at 8 (or less) again if we can win a few we shouldn't.

 

Everyone had their own opinions, but Pagano just isn't a solid HC.

 

I am leaning more toward a change may be needed as well after Sunday night but I was just asking a question because our Defense stinks.

[IinD]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am leaning more toward a change may be needed as well after Sunday night but I was just asking a question because our Defense stinks.

I also give blame to him for our current D woes as well.

 

Usually if a guy comes in and is known as being better at one side of the ball, they'll usually at least make that side serviceable. He hasn't done that here.

 

[Myles]

27 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Just curious but what do you think our record would be if we had Arizona's Defense instead of ours? Arians has unreal Defense that creates Turnovers. I think we would be 5-1 and pretty easily, Pagano would be looking like genius at this point.

I don't think so.   Pagano does not command a disciplined defense.  

What do you think Arians would be doing with Luck?

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Myles said:

I don't think so.   Pagano does not command a disciplined defense.  

What do you think Arians would be doing with Luck?

Probably 5-1 as well but Carson Palmer isn't a bum by no means. He isn't Andrew Luck but he's Good.

[2006Coltsbestever]

14 minutes ago, Myles said:

I don't think so.   Pagano does not command a disciplined defense.  

What do you think Arians would be doing with Luck?

I had us going 5-1 because I don't see anyway we lose to the Jags, Texans, or Lions if we had Arizona's Defense. We barely lost to all 3 with a Bad Defense.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, azcolt said:

Watching the Cardinals last night brought back some great memories. Obviously Irsay couldn't keep him, but he seems to have everything Pagano lacks. Cue the Pagano defenders that Luck would have been sacked more in Arians system blah blah.

 

Do you know what Arians has that Pagano doesn't?

 

A better team.

 

After their big win Sunday,  the Cardinals are......   3-3.       Yup,  they were below 500 before the game started.

 

Remember,  Arizona was a popular pre-season favorite for the Super Bowl.

 

Arians has a better team.    It's not hard to look like a better coach when you have a better team.

 

 

[tfunky14]

3 hours ago, azcolt said:

Watching the Cardinals last night brought back some great memories. Obviously Irsay couldn't keep him, but he seems to have everything Pagano lacks. Cue the Pagano defenders that Luck would have been sacked more in Arians system blah blah.

Yea and one more win at 3-3.

[Myles]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Do you know what Arians has that Pagano doesn't?

 

A better team.

 

After their big win Sunday,  the Cardinals are......   3-3.       Yup,  they were below 500 before the game started.

 

Remember,  Arizona was a popular pre-season favorite for the Super Bowl.

 

Arians has a better team.    It's not hard to look like a better coach when you have a better team.

 

 

If you could not tell that Arians was a better coach than Pagano, then you need your eyes checked and need to watch more football.   

Arians also helped make his team better.    I question if Pagano make this team better or not.  

[will426]

I mean Arians team is doing bad based on the fact that his qb is inconsistent and is injure prone if he had luck that offense would be top 3 lol  I like him cuz he doesn't take nonsense like chuck he won't baby you he'll tell you as a man you need To step it up 

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, will426 said:

I mean Arians team is doing bad based on the fact that his qb is inconsistent and is injure prone if he had luck that offense would be top 3 lol  I like him cuz he doesn't take nonsense like chuck he won't baby you he'll tell you as a man you need To step it up 

I'm with you.

He also plays in a much tougher division.  

[Valpo2004]

2 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

If Cards are under performing then what are the Colts doing? 

 

I understand that you are a fan. I am too, but over looking the state of the teams 2-4 record doesn't make things better.

 

I don't know, I think it was ignored on this board but a lot of people said the Colts where not going to be good this year.  So depending on your view we are either underperforming as well or we are meeting our terrible expectations.

 

It's not just that though.  Arians has a better team at nearly every position except QB.  

[SilentHill]

I wanted to keep Arians after 2012, it wasn't a popular opinion, but I'd argue we would be light years ahead of where we are now had it happened.

[NewColtsFan]

52 minutes ago, Myles said:

If you could not tell that Arians was a better coach than Pagano, then you need your eyes checked and need to watch more football.   

Arians also helped make his team better.    I question if Pagano make this team better or not.  

 

Chill.

 

I've said here a number of times that Arians is the better head coach.    It's not a secret.

 

But if you want to be angry that we had Arians and kept Pagano instead,  well,  that ship passed nearly 4 years ago.      Time to get over it.      At the time that a decision had to be made there was no way to know that Arians would prove to be the better coach.

 

 

[TKnight24]

3 hours ago, #12. said:

Never understood the Arians hatred on this forum.  Of course it seems many of the people who were hyper-critical of Arians were the same ones who defended Richardson, Werner and Grigson to their deaths.  Go figure. 

I hate his offense, love him as a person and coach 

 

But I hate his offense cause I'm a ground & pound guy. So if I had to choose I'd take Harbaugh over Arians. But Arians definitely is a great coach 

[Myles]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Chill.

 

I've said here a number of times that Arians is the better head coach.    It's not a secret.

 

But if you want to be angry that we had Arians and kept Pagano instead,  well,  that ship passed nearly 4 years ago.      Time to get over it.      At the time that a decision had to be made there was no way to know that Arians would prove to be the better coach.

 

 

Actually it was pretty obvious at the time.   But i agree the Colts could do nothing.   Not with Pagano just coming back from his illness.  their hands were tied.   But it's been a few years and it's time to dump Pagano.

 

Who's angry?   I don't need to "chill".   It does annoy me when people claim that Arians is only comsidered a better coach because he has a better team.   Arians helps make the team better.   Pagano helps make the Colts worse.  

[NewColtsFan]

33 minutes ago, Myles said:

Actually it was pretty obvious at the time.   But i agree the Colts could do nothing.   Not with Pagano just coming back from his illness.  their hands were tied.   But it's been a few years and it's time to dump Pagano.

 

Who's angry?   I don't need to "chill".   It does annoy me when people claim that Arians is only comsidered a better coach because he has a better team.   Arians helps make the team better.   Pagano helps make the Colts worse.  

 

Give it a rest.     That's embarrassing.    Nothing was obvious.    

 

Chuck Pagano had coached all of three regular season games.     There was no way to know how good or bad or was.      You didn't know squat.

 

But he won 11 games the next year plus a playoff game,  and then 11 more games in '14 plus two more playoff games.      So any argument that Pagano isn't a good HC is crushed by facts.

 

Arians is a better coach.     I thought he was a better HC than he was an OC for the Colts.    I didn't like his offense but I loved him as a HC.       But a choice had to be made.

 

By the way,   you don't know how much Arians influences decisions with Arizona.    We all have some idea,  but no one really knows.        And no one really knows how much or little Pagano impacts decisions that are made.   You can have a hunch and suspicion,  but we don't know.     Every team is different and every decision is unique.

 

[21isSuperman]

1 hour ago, SilentHill said:

I wanted to keep Arians after 2012, it wasn't a popular opinion, but I'd argue we would be light years ahead of where we are now had it happened.

Not possible.

1. Pagano was still under contract

2. Pagano was coming back from cancer.  Arians, a good friend of Pagano's, would never have taken the job from his cancer-defeating friend.

3. The Colts would not have offered Pagano the job because he was coming off of his fight with cancer, and we didn't know how he'd be as a head coach.  For all we knew back then, Pagano was the next coming of Bill Belichick.  We didn't have much of a sample to go off of to judge his head coaching ability.

[Devildog]

 Weeeeeeeeee........

[Myles]

58 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Give it a rest.     That's embarrassing.    Nothing was obvious.    

 

Chuck Pagano had coached all of three regular season games.     There was no way to know how good or bad or was.      You didn't know squat.

 

But he won 11 games the next year plus a playoff game,  and then 11 more games in '14 plus two more playoff games.      So any argument that Pagano isn't a good HC is crushed by facts.

 

Arians is a better coach.     I thought he was a better HC than he was an OC for the Colts.    I didn't like his offense but I loved him as a HC.       But a choice had to be made.

 

By the way,   you don't know how much Arians influences decisions with Arizona.    We all have some idea,  but no one really knows.        And no one really knows how much or little Pagano impacts decisions that are made.   You can have a hunch and suspicion,  but we don't know.     Every team is different and every decision is unique.

 

You contradicted yourself.   Nothing was obvious but you thought he was a better coach than Pagano just like most fans (at least the one's I talk to). 

If Pagano doesn't impact in game coaching decisions than he a worse coach than people think.  

 

I'm not sure what you are arguing here.   I'll argue that Arians is a better coach then Pagano.   You said you thought the same thing.   So what the heck?

The below paragraph spells is out pretty clearly:

Pagano went 2-2 and Arians 9-3 in 2012.

 

On October 1, 2012, Arians was named the interim head coach of the Colts following coach Chuck Pagano's leukemia diagnosis.^[9] Arians led the Colts to a 9–3 record, part of one of the biggest one-season turnarounds in NFL history. The nine wins are the most by an interim head coach in NFL history.^[10] After winning only two games in 2011, the Colts returned to the playoffs. Pagano returned to the Colts as head coach on December 24, 2012, with Arians returning to his role as offensive coordinator.^[11] Arians missed the Colts wild-card game loss against the Baltimore Ravens due to being hospitalized with an illness, which was described by doctors as an inner ear infection or a virus; Arians had missed practice on January 3 due to the flu.^[12] Arians was named the 2012 AP Coach of the Year, making him the first interim head coach to win the award

 

[SilentHill]

44 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Not possible.

1. Pagano was still under contract

2. Pagano was coming back from cancer.  Arians, a good friend of Pagano's, would never have taken the job from his cancer-defeating friend.

3. The Colts would not have offered Pagano the job because he was coming off of his fight with cancer, and we didn't know how he'd be as a head coach.  For all we knew back then, Pagano was the next coming of Bill Belichick.  We didn't have much of a sample to go off of to judge his head coaching ability.

 

I don't really care if it was possible or not, I still wanted it to happen.

[cbear]

I don't recall a lot of hate for Arians.  If anything, there was more griping when we kept Pagano IRC.

 

Regardless, Arians gives better press conferences and would make us all feel better after losses because he would say and act out how we feel, as opposed to Pagano, who doesn't say much.  Other than that though, I don't know how much of an upgrade it would be.  

[Myles]

14 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

 

I don't really care if it was possible or not, I still wanted it to happen.

I feel the same.   We all knew why the Colts couldn't keep the better coach.  

[21isSuperman]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

But he won 11 games the next year plus a playoff game,  and then 11 more games in '14 plus two more playoff games.      So any argument that Pagano isn't a good HC is crushed by facts.

There are plenty of facts that show he isn't a good head coach

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

There are plenty of facts that show he isn't a good head coach

Yep.   I also argue that Marvin Lewis is not a good head coach.   The Bengals roster is pretty stacked from  many years of good draft pick positions.  Marvin is kind of like Pagano in that he is a player friendly coach who isn't a good coach.

[21isSuperman]

10 minutes ago, Myles said:

Yep.   I also argue that Marvin Lewis is not a good head coach.   The Bengals roster is pretty stacked from  many years of good draft pick positions.  Marvin is kind of like Pagano in that he is a player friendly coach who isn't a good coach.

I disagree.  I think Marvin is a good coach.  He went through the headache of Ocho and those mid 2000s Bengals teams.  He stuck with it and the Bengals stuck with him and now they're one of the more complete teams in the AFC.  I think he's been mostly unlucky with his playoff record (eg. Palmer getting injured), but I think he knows what he's doing