Colts select Trevor Bates, DE, Maine

[oldunclemark]

27 minutes ago, CR91 said:

http://www.pressherald.com/2016/03/22/westbrooks-bates-puts-on-a-show-for-nfl-scouts/

Vwery interesting CR....

 

10 teams looked ta him but only the Colts scout asked him to do more and show more.

I would think its hard to go from DE to OLB (much easier the other way around) but hopefully he's a long term project who can work a year on the position change.

 

Worth a gamble in the '7' slot..and I would guess he'd be a 3rd down pass rusher. We need them

[weslo1812]

Now hopefully we can snag some solid UDFAs and maybe find a diamond in the rough.

[Bleedin Blue]

Now hopefully we can snag some solid UDFAs and maybe find a diamond in the rough.

The phone calls for UDFA's has just started...

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, weslo1812 said:

I'm happy with the draft overall. We have solidified our trenches on both sides which is big. And we got a fantastic athlete in Tj Green who needs some development and coaching. But has all the physical abilities to be a great safety with great range.

I wonder if Ridgeway will be Good or a Bust. If he turns out to be Good at worse that would be one of our franchises finest moments. I even liked that pick, it's a gamble but who knows?

[Maniq]

Exciting draft

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

I like this pick a lot more than our 4th round ILB.  Of course that isn't saying much but at least it sounds like this kid isn't a stiff (pun intended since the more I find out about our new ILB., he sure sounds like a stiff stiff).  

 

I was gonna say the same thing. He moves better and has better size. I haven't seen a lot of him, just some clips, but he looks like he has some upside.

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, weslo1812 said:

Now hopefully we can snag some solid UDFAs and maybe find a diamond in the rough.

 

I'm SHOCKED that Jeremy Cash went undrafted.

[indyagent17]

That video is pretty impressive but they are playing in the Colonial Athletic Association.

 

But you have to love a kid that is quick and a ball hawk like he is, you never know as this is the 7th round but this kid is energetic for sure

[COLTS449]

18 minutes ago, LockeDown said:

Haha.  You changed her mind about her career choice?

 

 

 

LOL come on man. But na. She worked as a counselor at this detention center for kids for years, and just got tired of it and wanted to do something else.

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

That video is pretty impressive but they are playing in the Colonial Athletic Association.

 

But you have to love a kid that is quick and a ball hawk like he is, you never know as this is the 7th round but this kid is energetic for sure

I think you can still tell by the way he moves, has balance and some explosion, that it looks good for him.  Now the measurable check out too, 4.7 40 at 6.2, 245

[BlueCollarColts]

Numbers definitely look good. Maybe we may have something here? 

[Stephen]

Luck drops back surveys the field makes a sandwich touchdown ty hilton

[Track Guy]

I called this pick in one of the threads earlier today lol. His 6.75 3 cone time is really intriguing. Small school guy.

[BlueShoe]

 

[Coltsman1788]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I'm SHOCKED that Jeremy Cash went undrafted.

Me too...I guess there is more concern over his wrist injury at the end of last year than we knew about.  I'd love if the Colts ended up signing him as a UDFA.  Though I know it is highly unlikely.  The kid can play some ball. 

[stitches]

2 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Damn, he has nice hands. How many interceptions was that? That's impressive from a passrusher.

 

Here's a full game of his from last year(2014-2015 season) if you guys are interested:

 

http://portal.stretchinternet.com/caa/portal.htm?eventId=224953&streamType=video

 

Also, Justis Mosqueda's formula ranks him as one of his force players in this year's draft.

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, stitches said:

Damn, he has nice hands. How many interceptions was that? That's impressive from a passrusher.

 

Here's a full game of his from last year(2014-2015 season) if you guys are interested:

 

http://portal.stretchinternet.com/caa/portal.htm?eventId=224953&streamType=video

 

Also, Justis Mosqueda's formula ranks him as one of his force players in this year's draft.

 

Still don't know JM's formula, but I would guess that Bates would be on the fringe of being a force player. He ran a decent, not great 40, had an average vertical and broad jump, but killed the 3 cone. 

 

Not knocking him at all, I like what little I've seen. Just curious why he's a force player, but Chandler Jones isn't.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Still don't know JM's formula, but I would guess that Bates would be on the fringe of being a force player. He ran a decent, not great 40, had an average vertical and broad jump, but killed the 3 cone. 

 

Not knocking him at all, I like what little I've seen. Just curious why he's a force player, but Chandler Jones isn't.

 

Here's why:

Quote

It’s heavily based around the three-cone drill and both the vertical and broad jumps. The short shuttle and the 10-yard split from the 40-yard dash are weighted more than the 40-yard dash itself. Looking at these numbers, it’s pretty obvious that the least important drill is the one which gets the most publicity.

http://playmakermentality.com/2016-force-players

 

It seems like the things he tested best at are weighted the most in the formula and the 40-yard dash is weighted the least.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

 

Here's why:

http://playmakermentality.com/2016-force-players

 

It seems like the things he tested best at are weighted the most in the formula and the 40-yard dash is weighted the least.

 

So 9 hundredths off the 40, 12 hundredths off the 10 yard split and 13 hundredths off the shuttle are the difference between a force player and a non-force player?

 

Bates is clearly on the fringe, if that's true. He has a mid-tier grouping, maybe that's where Bates landed.

 

Jones also jumped better by two inches in the broad and vertical, but he's not even mid-tier, he's in the red.

 

Until JM releases his formula, I can't really put any weight into his metric. I like that someone is doing this, but there just seem to be too many irregularities with it. @Dustin is supposed to be working on his master metric for edge rushers. We'll see how that comes out.

[krunk]

5 hours ago, Track Guy said:

I called this pick in one of the threads earlier today lol. His 6.75 3 cone time is really intriguing. Small school guy.

I spoke on Bates yesterday. We have a coach on our team that was at Maine with Bates for a little bit before becoming a coach with the Colts. He knew about him and suggested him to Grigson.

[krunk]

Stampede blue is also suggesting we picked up Curt Maggitt from Univ. Of Tennesse as a UDFA. He had 11 sacks on 2014. High effort player who bends the corner pretty well.

[chrisfarley]

On ‎4‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 6:16 PM, Smonroe said:

 

Apparently this is a guy who really was on the Colts radar and knew about it.  

 

Hey, you never know at this point.  But one thing is for sure, we need pass rushers!

hope he makes the team after watching his interview with colts, makes me like him that much more.

[scousecolt]

They had him listed as a MIKE on their board according to what I've seen on Twitter. On the tape he looks to have good hands, speed and size to play in the middle and his measurements are good for a MLB. We'll see where he lines up come camp.

[krunk]

They are not going to play Bates at Mike linebacker.

[Superman]

On 5/1/2016 at 8:15 PM, stitches said:

 

Here's why:

http://playmakermentality.com/2016-force-players

 

It seems like the things he tested best at are weighted the most in the formula and the 40-yard dash is weighted the least.

 

Another thing, why isn't Mingo a force player? I don't get where he's lacking...

[ztboiler]

58 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Another thing, why isn't Mingo a force player? I don't get where he's lacking...

Maybe they watched him play?   completely kidding.  I know what you mean.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, ztboiler said:

Maybe they watched him play?   completely kidding.  I know what you mean.

 

See, but that's my issue. I don't know how long JM has been doing this rating, but I feel like his method is not scientific. I think maybe he built a formula that is designed to get particular, predetermined results. He won't publish his formula, and too many of the results don't make sense. If he just started doing this a couple years ago, then he can say 'I cracked the code, Mingo doesn't fit my metric, I'm right,' but how do we know that? How do we know he didn't purposely exclude Mingo?

 

Ziggy Ansah, force player, 6'5, 271 pounds: 4.63 second 40, 1.63 10 yard, 2.69 20 yard, 34.5 inch vertical, 9'10 broad, 7.11 3 cone, 4.26 20 yard shuttle

 

Barkevious Mingo, mid tier force player, 6'4, 241 pounds: 4.58 second 40, 1.60 10 yard, 2.68 20 yard, 37 inch vertical, 10'8 broad, 6.84 3 cone, 4.39 20 yard shuttle

 

Discrepancy is their size, right? Mingo was 30 pounds lighter. Let's let Von Miller adjust for size.

 

Von Miller, force player, 6'3, 246 pounds: 4.53 second 40, 1.62 10 yard, 2.64 20 yard, 37 inch vertical, 10'6 broad, 6.70 3 cone, 4.06 20 yard shuttle

 

To me, aside from the 20 yard shuttle, Mingo and Miller had identical athletic profiles. He's selling this as being the determining metric to project an edge rusher's NFL potential, but the difference between his ideal guy and a bust is 0.33 seconds on the 20 yard shuttle? I don't know, Jasper...

 

I know you might not care about this, and I've gone tumbling down the rabbit hole, but something just doesn't sit right with me about his metric, and every time I look more closely at it, I find another problem with it.

[ztboiler]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

See, but that's my issue. I don't know how long JM has been doing this rating, but I feel like his method is not scientific. I think maybe he built a formula that is designed to get particular, predetermined results. He won't publish his formula, and too many of the results don't make sense. If he just started doing this a couple years ago, then he can say 'I cracked the code, Mingo doesn't fit my metric, I'm right,' but how do we know that? How do we know he didn't purposely exclude Mingo?

 

Ziggy Ansah, force player, 6'5, 271 pounds: 4.63 second 40, 1.63 10 yard, 2.69 20 yard, 34.5 inch vertical, 9'10 broad, 7.11 3 cone, 4.26 20 yard shuttle

 

Barkevious Mingo, mid tier force player, 6'4, 241 pounds: 4.58 second 40, 1.60 10 yard, 2.68 20 yard, 37 inch vertical, 10'8 broad, 6.84 3 cone, 4.39 20 yard shuttle

 

Discrepancy is their size, right? Mingo was 30 pounds lighter. Let's let Von Miller adjust for size.

 

Von Miller, force player, 6'3, 246 pounds: 4.53 second 40, 1.62 10 yard, 2.64 20 yard, 37 inch vertical, 10'6 broad, 6.70 3 cone, 4.06 20 yard shuttle

 

To me, aside from the 20 yard shuttle, Mingo and Miller had identical athletic profiles. He's selling this as being the determining metric to project an edge rusher's NFL potential, but the difference between his ideal guy and a bust is 0.33 seconds on the 20 yard shuttle? I don't know, Jasper...

 

I know you might not care about this, and I've gone tumbling down the rabbit hole, but something just doesn't sit right with me about his metric, and every time I look more closely at it, I find another problem with it.

I'm not surprised that you'd like some transparency and accountability for claims on data driven predictors.  It only makes sense.  So much pass rushing talent laying by the side of the road that data says would succeed.

 

In reality, pass rushers have come in all sorts of shapes and sizes where intangibles can overcome shortcomings.  Just like most businesses with a craft to learn and apply in combination with reasonable talent...it works if you do. 

[stitches]

@SupermanHere's what Mosqueda said about the difference between Bosa and Lawson, who had similar results(Lawson being force player while Bosa not being one):

 

 

[Gavin]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

See, but that's my issue. I don't know how long JM has been doing this rating, but I feel like his method is not scientific. I think maybe he built a formula that is designed to get particular, predetermined results. He won't publish his formula, and too many of the results don't make sense. If he just started doing this a couple years ago, then he can say 'I cracked the code, Mingo doesn't fit my metric, I'm right,' but how do we know that? How do we know he didn't purposely exclude Mingo?

 

Ziggy Ansah, force player, 6'5, 271 pounds: 4.63 second 40, 1.63 10 yard, 2.69 20 yard, 34.5 inch vertical, 9'10 broad, 7.11 3 cone, 4.26 20 yard shuttle

 

Barkevious Mingo, mid tier force player, 6'4, 241 pounds: 4.58 second 40, 1.60 10 yard, 2.68 20 yard, 37 inch vertical, 10'8 broad, 6.84 3 cone, 4.39 20 yard shuttle

 

Discrepancy is their size, right? Mingo was 30 pounds lighter. Let's let Von Miller adjust for size.

 

Von Miller, force player, 6'3, 246 pounds: 4.53 second 40, 1.62 10 yard, 2.64 20 yard, 37 inch vertical, 10'6 broad, 6.70 3 cone, 4.06 20 yard shuttle

 

To me, aside from the 20 yard shuttle, Mingo and Miller had identical athletic profiles. He's selling this as being the determining metric to project an edge rusher's NFL potential, but the difference between his ideal guy and a bust is 0.33 seconds on the 20 yard shuttle? I don't know, Jasper...

 

I know you might not care about this, and I've gone tumbling down the rabbit hole, but something just doesn't sit right with me about his metric, and every time I look more closely at it, I find another problem with it.

I can tell you what's wrong but you already know where I stand on all this combine numbers based formula Force Player/Edge Rusher stuff

[Superman]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

@SupermanHere's what Mosqueda said about the difference between Bosa and Lawson, who had similar results(Lawson being force player while Bosa not being one):

 

 

 

So, not much...???

 

Did I miss the point? 

[stitches]

18 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

So, not much...???

 

Did I miss the point? 

They adjust the test results by 'density'(weight/height ratio). I don't know exactly how the adjustment works.

 

At least he's publishing all his force and non-force players this year, so for the future we can't really accuse him of meddling with classification of players. Here is his spreadsheet for this season:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jf2gPaONVHvw3Xwbq-_JA7qY71keTBgzUJ-baWgZBOY/edit?usp=sharing

[stitches]

Seems like the only 'force players' this year are: Shaq Lawson, Robert Nkemdiche, Bronson Kaufusi, Dean Lowry, Tyrone Holmes and our own Trevor Bates.