Pagano agrees to a contract extension, Grigson retained [Mega-merge]

[MTC]

Am I the only one who felt the Grigson/Pagano handshake and hug felt forced?

[MTC]

Still think retaining Pagano and Grigson was a bad move, but I will still support this team 100%.

[MB-ColtsFan]

13 minutes ago, Nostrils said:

you gonna be ok?

He WAS on the ledge a few minutes ago.  Dunno where he went to.

Oh, gee...look down...

[BOTT]

1 minute ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I won't hold my breath that they'll all the sudden get everything fixed, but there's something to be said about continuity I suppose.  Maybe it's better to stick with guys for a little too long as opposed to change GMs/HCs every 3 or 4 years.  What do I know? Had the next guy not worked out, we'd be even further in purgatory than we already are.

things can't easily get better if they make some staff changes....although I'm not convinced they would replace them with the right people.

but Irsay is always talking about multiple Super Bowls and greatness....does he really believe Chuck is they guy than can get that done?  And sure it's a gamble when you being in a new coach, but fortune usually favors the bold.

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

just got home and heard the news. Actually pretty relieved as I fear the unknown. I have a question for everyone in this thread. Would you of rather had gone 6-10 and got a draft pick 8-10 spots earlier with a new coaching staff. Or went 8-8 like we did and got the 18th pick and kept Pagano and Grigson.

 

I'm actually thinking it might be better to have the lower pick just to keep our guys.

I think this season came down to were you impressed that they went 6-3 with backup QBs or disappointed they went 2-5 with Andrew Luck?  Depending on where you fall on that question probably tells you where you stand on the should they have kept Pagano/Grigson front. 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, MTC said:

Still think retaining Pagano and Grigson was a bad move, but I will still support this team 100%.

So I take it you would of rather gone 6-10 and cleaned house with the higher pick?

[OffensivelyPC]

I guess I wonder how the arrangement will work going forward.  No doubt the players don't care for Grigson.  How much does that really matter?  Will there need to be some sort of amends going forward?

[MTC]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

So I take it you would of rather gone 6-10 and cleaned house with the higher pick?

 

I'm okay with the 8-8 record.

[Superman]

The question I've been asking is whether Pagano can get better, a la Ron Rivera. I'm not convinced he can.

[bababooey]

4 minutes ago, MTC said:

Still think retaining Pagano and Grigson was a bad move, but I will still support this team 100%.

Ugh they got me in again, it's Build The Monster Lets Hunt Tradewinds feelings again.

[MTC]

Just now, Superman said:

The question I've been asking is whether Pagano can get better, a la Ron Rivera. I'm not convinced he can.

 

Pretty sure Ron Rivera didn't have 7 blowout losses in his first four years. I agree with you though.

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I guess I wonder how the arrangement will work going forward.  No doubt the players don't care for Grigson.  How much does that really matter?  Will there need to be some sort of amends going forward?

Kravitz pointed out yesterday very rarely is the GM popular in the lockerrom.  Nor should he be as after the players get their contracts they don't really interact much with the GM.  The coaches they see everyday and Chuck Pagano has proven above all to be a players coach to the point he would talk about their Grit and how proud of them he was when they would lose.  So I am not shocked the players loved Chuck and I am also not shocked they were anti-Grigson as I think they felt like it was coming down to an either or so they were backing their guy which wasn't Grigson. 

[cclaser]

17 minutes ago, Nostrils said:

you gonna be ok?

OK? Why wouldn't I be OK?   I have a great life, and more time on Sunday's to spend with the fam.  I can also just sell my good seats to the visitors, unless the current grease fire spirals out of control.   Mostly, this just sucks for Luck.   I can't believe the arrogant GM is still employed.  

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think this season came down to were you impressed that they went 6-3 with backup QBs or disappointed they went 2-5 with Andrew Luck?  Depending on where you fall on that question probably tells you where you stand on the should they have kept Pagano/Grigson front. 

I guess I fall into the category where I'm relieved that Luck's injury were holding him back and not regression in his performance. In that respect, I have changed my mind and am happy Pagano is still with us, especially after hearing about Grigson's meddling with Trent and the fact that we had no chance without Luck this season. I fear the unknown with a new GM in the fact that I don't know if a new one can draft as well as Grigson and manage the cap as well. I respect Grigson for both of those things and a lot of his picks are people I like as well. As long as Pagano gets more control, I'm ecstatic, especially since we aren't considering giving up a 2nd for Payton (which has been reported as the asking price now).

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I guess I fall into the category where I'm relieved that Luck's injury were holding him back and not regression in his performance. In that respect, I have changed my mind and am happy Pagano is still with us, especially after hearing about Grigson's meddling with Trent and the fact that we had no chance without Luck this season. I fear the unknown with a new GM in the fact that I don't know if a new one can draft as well as Grigson and manage the cap as well. I respect Grigson for both of those things and a lot of his picks are people I like as well. As long as Pagano gets more control, I'm ecstatic, especially since we aren't considering giving up a 2nd for Payton (which has been reported as the asking price now).

Yeah while I felt like Payton was the best of the coaches that was out there to go get I am highly against trading picks for coaches unless you can land like the hoody. 

[MTC]

I hope Irsay installed Grigson's head to not over pay mediocre free agents. 

 

Do not want to see a Trent Cole-esq signing. 

[OffensivelyPC]

6 minutes ago, BOTT said:

things can't easily get better if they make some staff changes....although I'm not convinced they would replace them with the right people.

but Irsay is always talking about multiple Super Bowls and greatness....does he really believe Chuck is they guy than can get that done?  And sure it's a gamble when you being in a new coach, but fortune usually favors the bold.

Time will tell, but I'd at least like to think a competent businessman would not hire a guy knowing he couldn't get the job done.

[Superman]

Just now, MTC said:

 

Pretty sure Ron Rivera didn't have 7 blowout losses in his first four years.

 

Did you check? You should probably check.

 

However, what I'm talking about goes much deeper than just final scores and win/loss records. Ron Rivera basically transformed as a coach overnight, going from a super conservative, losing coach, to a 'seize the day' kind of guy who basically owns 4th down. 

 

Still, Pagano has three times as many playoff wins as Rivera, in one season less.

[GoColts8818]

7 minutes ago, MTC said:

 

Pretty sure Ron Rivera didn't have 7 blowout losses in his first four years. I agree with you though.

Blowout losses happen.  Seasons like this one for the Colts happen. The only two teams that has really been an exemption for since 2002 were the Colts and the Pats.  This is life in the NFL.  Not every year is going to be 12-4 with a 10 game winning streak to start the year. 

[MB-ColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Johnny Bui said:

in grigsons defense, yes he made a couple bad choices, but he also made a couple of good choices.  Hopefully he learned from those bad choices and draft needs instead of best player possible and not to obtain old free agents.  I always thought our Offense was the problem because we can never convert on 3rd down and redzone.  Its been like that throughout our 2nd-4th year.  Hopefully we can get an Offensive guru during the offseason.

I think we already have our "guru" in Chud.  I think he stays as OC.

Manusky...not too certain about that.  I think he will probably be replaced.  Hopefully Clyde is also gone this year as QB coach.

McMahon...I'm on the fence about.  I thought ST's did well in the beginning and then ended poorly.  Quan Bray (I see you, Quan!!!) was a breath of fresh air.  I think we have our return man.

[Superman]

The Panthers had 6 losses of 17+ points in 2014 alone. 

[MTC]

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

Blowout losses happen.  Seasons like this one for the Colts happen. The only two teams that has really been an exemption for since 2002 were the Colts and the Pats.  This is life in the NFL.  Not every year is going to be 12-4 with a 10 game winning streak to start the year. 

 

Yes, but giving up 51 to the Jaguars and 45 to the Steelers back to back weeks does not deserve anyone a contract extension. 

[OHColtfan]

Not sure I;m crazy about this. I guess it is the frustration of not being able to see the way forward with these two in charge of our future. What is going to change to make the changes necessary? How is it going to be different than it has been to fix the O-line or get decent athletes on D or not come out flat in games and so on?  Guess this is where Jim took a little leap of faith.

 

 Then again if we would have cleaned house there would be some fresh hope that change would do us good. Change doesn't always work out though (ask an Eagles fan)  Suppose that it is kind of frustrating that we now have to wait around for another 9 months to see if this works, and waiting stinks.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

I think we already have our "guru" in Chud.  I think he stays as OC.

Manusky...not too certain about that.  I think he will probably be replaced.  Hopefully Clyde is also gone this year as QB coach.

McMahon...I'm on the fence about.  I thought ST's did well in the beginning and then ended poorly.  Quan Bray (I see you, Quan!!!) was a breath of fresh air.  I think we have our return man.

 

Yesterday, Pagano called Clyde the best QB coach in the history of the NFL. 

[OffensivelyPC]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Kravitz pointed out yesterday very rarely is the GM popular in the lockerrom.  Nor should he be as after the players get their contracts they don't really interact much with the GM.  The coaches they see everyday and Chuck Pagano has proven above all to be a players coach to the point he would talk about their Grit and how proud of them he was when they would lose.  So I am not shocked the players loved Chuck and I am also not shocked they were anti-Grigson as I think they felt like it was coming down to an either or so they were backing their guy which wasn't Grigson. 

I guess I never really knew what the players relationship with the GM was outside of contracting.  I mean they all work out of the same building, so I figured, even at least through proximity there was some relationship there between him and the players.  Let's just hope this was the right move...

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Did you check? You should probably check.

 

However, what I'm talking about goes much deeper than just final scores and win/loss records. Ron Rivera basically transformed as a coach overnight, going from a super conservative, losing coach, to a 'seize the day' kind of guy who basically owns 4th down. 

 

Still, Pagano has three times as many playoff wins as Rivera, in one season less.

Pagano, Grigson, and Luck are all tied to each other. If Grigson can draft a team around Luck, and Pagano can coach it, there's no limit to our potential. All 3 play crucial roles in the teams development and success. Now they all need to step up. Grigson needs to have one more big draft and sign some FA's to put us over the top talent wise, Luck needs to fix the mistakes and turnovers he makes a lot, and Pagano needs to take that next step as a strategist coach to lead this team. If these 3 do their jobs, the team will follow and I believe Pagano can do it.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, MTC said:

 

Yes, but giving up 51 to the Jaguars and 45 to the Steelers back to back weeks does not deserve anyone a contract extension. 

 

If only everything were that simple. 

[bababooey]

9 minutes ago, MTC said:

I hope Irsay installed Grigson's head to not over pay mediocre free agents. 

 

Do not want to see a Trent Cole-esq signing. 

He said we will get younger

[akcolt]

The best decision that could have been made. You don't jump ship after one bad year when Luck is out half the season.

 

Hopefully Chud hangs around. whatever issues there were between Grigs and Chuck are resolved. We get back on track next year.

 

I know a lot of people wanted it but cleaning house is a huge process. Chuck didn't lose the locker room To the dismay of many they played hard until the end.

 

 

Look around the league there are not a lot of successful teams who flip flop on coaches/GM after 3 straight 11-5 seasons a step farther in the playoffs We lose our QB. Injuries hit hard. We were down to nothing at CB week 2.  Team plays on finished 8-8. Not what anyone wanted You learn and move on. The key being learning 4 yes is just number

[MB-ColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yesterday, Pagano called Clyde the best QB coach in the history of the NFL. 

Looks like i picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue...

[BOTT]

9 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

 

 

[bababooey]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yesterday, Pagano called Clyde the best QB coach in the history of the NFL. 

He said today was the best day of his life...

[Buck Showalter]

13 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I guess I wonder how the arrangement will work going forward.  No doubt the players don't care for Grigson.  How much does that really matter?  Will there need to be some sort of amends going forward?

What are you working with saying players care not for Grigs???

I sorta doubt thats true, for many of the players Grigs is the guy that drafted/signed/hired them...

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Pagano, Grigson, and Luck are all tied to each other. If Grigson can draft a team around Luck, and Pagano can coach it, there's no limit to our potential. All 3 play crucial roles in the teams development and success. Now they all need to step up. Grigson needs to have one more big draft and sign some FA's to put us over the top talent wise, Luck needs to fix the mistakes and turnovers he makes a lot, and Pagano needs to take that next step as a strategist coach to lead this team. If these 3 do their jobs, the team will follow and I believe Pagano can do it.

 

So many IFs. I'm not convinced on Pagano. I have reservations about Grigson. 

 

That said, I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes. I think Chuck needs some help, though, starting with upgrading his staff. Schematically, this staff has to be better.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Superman said:

 

So many IFs. I'm not convinced on Pagano. I have reservations about Grigson. 

 

That said, I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes. I think Chuck needs some help, though, starting with upgrading his staff. Schematically, this staff has to be better.

There are a lot of IF's, as is with every team. Let me ask you two questions as you know a lot more than me. Who would you of rather had than Pagano, and since you have reservations about Grigson, what's a GM that will be available that can draft better than him? He hits probably an average of 3 players per draft, that's better than most.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

Looks like i picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue...

 

He was obviously being hyperbolic during a victory speech, but he still said it. That's a big 180 to go from 'best QB coach' to 'we're going to go in a different direction.' 

 

But if he's going to enable Chud -- which I think he will, just a hunch -- then maybe Chud wants a QB coach that he's on the same page with. I don't think there's anything great about Clyde; he's ridden the coattails of two really good QBs to stay in the league for the past dozen years. I'm fine with him being replaced, if Chud has someone noteworthy in mind.

 

OL coaches need to go, IMO. Yesterday...

[OffensivelyPC]

6 minutes ago, Buck Showalter said:

What are you working with saying players care not for Grigs???

I sorta doubt thats true, for many of the players Grigs is the guy that drafted/signed/hired them...

Well, there was a thread somewhere around here that touched on it.  But it had to do with Pat McAfee's stand up and calling Grigson an * and whatnot.  It had been a recurring theme in alot of the articles talking about Grigson meddling in Pagano's on-field coaching decisions and players being told "his hands are tied."  I couldn't recall one single article or instance but it's been a collection of things I've read over hte past several months.  It would take more research than I'm willing to do at 12:35am, so I hope that you can take my word on it that the players aren't exactly fond of Grigson.  As Colts8188 said, it's not unusual for players to not be too keen of the GM. 

[GoColts8818]

6 minutes ago, MTC said:

 

Yes, but giving up 51 to the Jaguars and 45 to the Steelers back to back weeks does not deserve anyone a contract extension. 

No those were clearly the low parts of this season.  What got Pagano this extension were probably the following:

 

6-3 with a back up QB this year.

the players love for Chuck

three straight 11-5 seasons with three playoff wins, two division titles, and a trip to the AFCCG, Irsay kept talking about how this "era" is off to a faster start than the last one so I think this was key in Irsay keeping him.

and the fact Grigson still had a year on his deal.  That would have been an odd time for a coaching switch because if they parted ways with Grigson after this year a new GM would have probably wanted his own coach after they made one this year. So Irsay tied them together.  Also, while they have extensions to keep them here four more years Irsay can fire both at any point he wants and if things don't rebound next year I would expect both to be shown the door.  

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

There are a lot of IF's, as is with every team. Let me ask you two questions as you know a lot more than me. Who would you of rather had than Pagano, and since you have reservations about Grigson, what's a GM that will be available that can draft better than him? He hits probably an average of 3 players per draft, that's better than most.

 

I spent all this time the past few weeks getting kind of excited about the interview process for new GMs and HCs... 

 

My favorites, as of today, would be Duke Tobin, Bengals Director of Personnel, and Hue Jackson, Bengals OC. Not because they're a package deal, but that doesn't hurt. 

[RomanianColtsFan]

I'm very pleased how everything turned out, especially since there were no realistically better options for a new head coach. I know there were 2-3 names that may have been worth considering but as I understand they could not be practically pursued. Go Colts!