Reaction thread: Fire all the coaches and the GM (merge)

[Lucky Colts Fan]

I wonder if these were the same people calling for Dungys head after that horrible run defense in 2006.  He was a defensive coach that was supposed to fix our D, but The JAGS ran for over 300 yds with Ol' Fred and MJD in one game, and the Colts ended up allowing over 100 yds/game the entire season.

 

We were supposed to be one-and-done in the playoffs because our run D was so bad, and we limped into the playoffs because we won a soft division.  We had to stop one of the best runners in the league in Larry Johnson, and nobody gave the Colts a chance.

 

What happened?  The Colts didn't fire anybody, didn't bring in any new personnel or change their scheme, and they NEVER GAVE UP.

 

That horrible run defense turned into our strength, and led us to a Super Bowl, and it made the turnaround in ONE WEEK.

 

NFL teams can turn it on like a switch sometimes.  It's like a light bulb and they look like a completely different team than the week before.

 

This is as bad as it has looked with the new regime, but it looked about as bad as it had during Dungys' regime at the end of the regular season in 2006.  We just have to get to the playoffs, then all bets are off.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

Every team that has ever won a Super Bowl has gone through some sort of adversity during the season.  Even the undefeated Dolphins of '72 lost their starting QB early in the season.

 

Let's just hope we are getting all of our adversity out of the way in the first couple games.  We haven't lost anybody to season ending IR, and these concussions will allow backups to get game experience early in the year.

 

We have an entire season to go, so let's calm down and hope for the best.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

If we stay healthy this year, yet miss the playoffs, then let's revisit this topic.

 

I think we all know it's insanely premature to start firing people and rebuilding 2 games into the season. 

 

There aren't any better alternatives at home waiting for a call from Irsay, and there won't be any until the season ends.  So we kind of have to wait until the end of the season to start this talk anyway...

[Superman]

I never thought that was your intention. I was just saying that it's really difficult to determine how badly Luck is playing. He has zero help and has no choice but to try to do it on his own. No doubt he's had some bad plays and can play better , we just disagree a bit how much better he can play under the circumstances. That's what I figured was not worth "arguing" about. 

 

He's a transcendent player, and we've all seen it. He's not transcending. Maybe that's not fair, but he has a high standard to live up to.

 

But really, without holding him to that standard, I'd just like to see him make accurate throws in the short passing game. If he's doing that and the receivers aren't open, then I can talk about how no one is helping him. But he missed Andre Johnson on the first interception. He threw a ball that must have went as high as any of Pat's punts when Dorsett had single coverage and a step on his man, and that's after he properly identified the coverage and exploited the weakness in it, and with no pressure.

 

No question his teammates need to play better as well. It's just, he's supposed to be THE REASON the Colts can contend, and right now, he's just another guy. He's not playing like we're used to seeing Andrew Luck play.

[colts_mp]

Every team that has ever won a Super Bowl has gone through some sort of adversity during the season.  Even the undefeated Dolphins of '72 lost their starting QB early in the season.

 

Let's just hope we are getting all of our adversity out of the way in the first couple games.  We haven't lost anybody to season ending IR, and these concussions will allow backups to get game experience early in the year.

 

We have an entire season to go, so let's calm down and hope for the best.

Off the top of my head the 85 Bears crushed everybody except that one loss in Miami.  Heck, they made the super bowl shuffle song mid season.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

Last time we fired everyone, we drafted Luck and decided to build around him.  With that peice in place, Irsay basically said he wanted what the pats have, which isn't going to happen.

 

Belichick is Belichick.  It is what it is.  He may cheat, but he is the greatest at aquiring specific talent and fitting it into his schemes.  He went 11-5 with Matt Cassel, and nobody was surprised, while Chuck is barely making 11-5 with Andrew Freakin Luck.

 

The variance of his schemes are his brilliance though.  No coach today has as much control over the team as Belichick, because he consistently and successfully changes his gameplans according to his opponent.  And he somehow always has the right guy for each task, whether it's an undrafted gem, or a veteran he picked up off some other teams' trash pile.

 

We are like the other 30 teams, we don't have Belichick, so we have like 3 people trying to do everything that Belichick does.  Can you imagine 3 people trying to come to the conclusion that maybe we run a 4-3 this week with this personnel as opposed to the usual 3-4 with the regular personnel?  It would take half the week, as opposed to Belichick just coming in on Monday and saying "OK, this week the D is 4-3 with this personnel, and this is specifically what we need to do to beat this team."

 

He does it on offense too.  Run the ball down the Colts' throat with Jonas Gray, check.  Throw the ball 50+ times against a stout run D, check.  Belichick decides the gameplan and personnel each week, and his word is law because it works.

 

It's like Belichick has a whole set of different shaped blocks at his disposal and no single block is his favorite, so no matter what holes are in front of him, he can put a round block in a round hole, square block in square hole, etc.  While the rest of the coaches insist on their specific type of block being the best, no matter what the hole looks like...

 

So unless you know of a more moral version of Bill Belichick that is just sitting around waiting for Jim Irsay to call him/her, then it doesn't matter if we fire everyone today or wait to see who is available at the end of the season. 

[Valpo2004]

This worries me a lot as well. Like... a lot.. a lot. We are not physical enough to get separation and it looks like the receivers don't know any routes that can throw a DB off track. Throw that one at Pep or what?

 

Part of me wonders if we arn't trying too many deep routes or something.  I remember seeing a replay from behind Luck's head on one of those blitzes where the receivers got no separation.  It looked like they where all going deep.  No one slanted or ran an out route or any kind of quick throw route.  

 

We seem to have too much of a love of deep routes.  

[pgt_rob]

Part of me wonders if we arn't trying too many deep routes or something.  I remember seeing a replay from behind Luck's head on one of those blitzes where the receivers got no separation.  It looked like they where all going deep.  No one slanted or ran an out route or any kind of quick throw route.  

 

We seem to have too much of a love of deep routes.  

 

Yeah, I saw that as well. Everyone was out deep and literally nobody in the middle for a quick slant or screen.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

Off the top of my head the 85 Bears crushed everybody except that one loss in Miami.  Heck, they made the super bowl shuffle song mid season.

 

OK, so we are already experiencing more adversity than the freakin '85 Bears, what's your point?  Should we panic and start firing everyone?

[Andrew Luck fan club]

It sucks that most of us want the coach, gm and oc fired..like they all kind of suck, and it sucks. I'm officially unofficially on the #cleanhousebandwagon

[Valpo2004]

It sucks that most of us want the coach, gm and oc fired..like they all kind of suck, and it sucks. I'm officially unofficially on the #cleanhousebandwagon

 

I don't believe in doing that stuff mid-season.  Mid-season it seems pointless like some sort of anger reaction and not a well thought out strategy.  I've never seen a mid-season firing of a head coach make the team legitimately better.

 

However I would say unless we see some strong improvement and a pretty good playoff run then I'm on the clean house bandwagon as well.

 

I'm still open to the possibility that my mind can be changed.  If this team wins the next 14 games and wins the SB then I will get off that bandwagon as I'm sure a lot would.  

[Lucky Colts Fan]

Enough said, *

 

Replacements?

 

Burn it down. Same undisciplined, turnover prone, high variance Colts teams. All of that talent on offense and 21 points in 2 games. This team has hit it's ceiling with Grigson and Pagano. 

 

Into the trash this regime goes. 

 

 

Replacements?

 

Fire both grigs and pag has to go!! Who cares if it's two game into the season. We continue to play like this under this regime we are gonna lose anyways. So why not fireboth of them now and see what happens!

 

 

Replacements?

 

Fire em all. Start over. Gross.

 

 

Replacements?

 

Pagona, Manusky, And Pep all has to go.

 

 

Replacements?

 

So, I've slept on it, and now I'm 100% sure someone should be fired this morning. Make it happen Irsay.

 

 

Replacements?

 

I'm ready to clean house. Pagano and Grigson need to leave ASAP. This team is a huge mess.

 

 

Replacements?

 

Grigson should do the Colts a solid and resign today. He has proven to be bad at his job. 

 

 

Replacements?

 

Who the heck is going to replace everyone that "needs" to be fired?  And if we tank the season to get a top pick in the draft, again, who the heck is going to coach this now unstoppable team that is going to go from 0-16 to 16-0 because of one top-ten draft pick?

[TrueColt!]

Agreed!! Plus, I just heard Pagano throwing Luck under the bus. How u tell a QB that they should be used to having a bum oline by now? This guy has to go. People saying Luck looked bad, of course. Lets see u get comfortable with big dudes running right thru the line for u unblocked, at full speed. These dudes bench more than Luck weigh. People need to watch these games again really.

[Jason_]

Agreed!! Plus, I just heard Pagano throwing Luck under the bus. How u tell a QB that they should be used to having a bum oline by now? This guy has to go. People saying Luck looked bad, of course. Lets see u get comfortable with big dudes running right thru the line for u unblocked, at full speed. These dudes bench more than Luck weigh. People need to watch these games again really.

 

If Pagano was throwing anyone under the bus (and I'm not 100% sure that was his intention), it wasn't Luck. ;)

[Flash7]

Agreed!! Plus, I just heard Pagano throwing Luck under the bus. How u tell a QB that they should be used to having a bum oline by now? This guy has to go. People saying Luck looked bad, of course. Lets see u get comfortable with big dudes running right thru the line for u unblocked, at full speed. These dudes bench more than Luck weigh. People need to watch these games again really.

Pagano said that Luck has faced pressure before in the past and has dealt with it better. He said that Luck simply cannot commit turnovers, which is a statement that we all agree with.

 

He did not throw Luck under the bus. He stated what we all already know: Luck has to handle the blitz better and protect the ball. He needs to make better decisions.

[aaron11]

Replacements?

 

 

does it matter?  the colts are no where near being a super bowl team.  who cares about winning another AFC south title and getting bounced by the first good team we meet in the playoffs?

[Superman]

Pagano said that Luck has faced pressure before in the past and has dealt with it better. He said that Luck simply cannot commit turnovers, which is a statement that we all agree with.

 

He did not throw Luck under the bus. He stated what we all already know: Luck has to handle the blitz better and protect the ball. He needs to make better decisions.

 

And that he needs better protection. Because of the narrative that he and Grigson have beef, that's getting blown out of proportion, too, but to me, it's a simple statement of fact. The protection was bad last night. 

[Superman]

does it matter?

 

Umm, yeah. Are you serious?

[Jason_]

does it matter? 

 

Oh the ridiculous things people say when they're angry.

 

[Dustin]

Replacements?

Replacements?

Replacements?

Replacements?

Replacements?

Replacements?

Replacements?

Replacements?

Who the heck is going to replace everyone that "needs" to be fired? And if we tank the season to get a top pick in the draft, again, who the heck is going to coach this now unstoppable team that is going to go from 0-16 to 16-0 because of one top-ten draft pick?

I obviously didn't mean this week. At the end of the season obviously. Except Pep, he can go now.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

does it matter?  the colts are no where near being a super bowl team.  who cares about winning another AFC south title and getting bounced by the first good team we meet in the playoffs?

 

It matters to me.  I care.  I think the Colts win the AFC South and get into the playoffs.  After that, all bets are off, we just need to get to the dance.

 

Oh ye of little faith, get your head out your butt, all we need is a chance to bring home a second Lombardi.

[aaron11]

Umm, yeah. Are you serious?

yes.  i make the comments i do because i care about the super bowl, not going 11-5 and losing to the first good team we meet in the playoffs.

 

irsay wants 2 super bowls with luck and i feel the same.  we dont even look like a playoff team.  if we are going to be this bad under the current regime, then its time to find a new one.  even if it means blowing this staff up and tanking a season

[aaron11]

It matters to me.  I care.  I think the Colts win the AFC South and get into the playoffs.  After that, all bets are off, we just need to get to the dance.

 

Oh ye of little faith, get your head out your butt, all we need is a chance to bring home a second Lombardi.

this is where we disagree.  we have won how many division titles in the worst division in the league now?  i dont even care about those any more

[Lucky Colts Fan]

I obviously didn't mean this week. At the end of the season obviously. Except Pep, he can go now.

 

The question still stands though.  Even at the end of the season, Belichick won't be for sale.  Lombardi, Walsh, Knoll and Landry are NOT walking through that door.

 

So, WHO is going to replace the pink slips?  WHO do you want for GM, HC, and OC?

[Superman]

yes.  i make the comments i do because i care about the super bowl, not going 11-5 and losing to the first good team we meet in the playoffs.

 

irsay wants 2 super bowls with luck and i feel the same.  we dont even look like a playoff team.  if we are going to be this bad under the current regime, then its time to find a new one.  even if it means blowing this staff up and tanking a season

 

Well, yeah, everyone wants the team to win a SB. You're not unique in that regard. Sorry if I'm popping your bubble of delusion there.

 

But the point is that it matters who replaces anyone that goes. Very much so. You might be really fed up with the current staff, but there's no point in replacing anyone if you aren't going to bring in someone better. 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

this is where we disagree.  we have won how many division titles in the worst division in the league now?  i dont even care about those any more

 

It's like you forget the Colts have a history of sustained excellence.  Unless the Colts are perfect, they are a failure.  You are what other NFL fans like to call a "typical spoiled Colts fan"...

[aaron11]

 

 

So, WHO is going to replace the pink slips?  WHO do you want for GM, HC, and OC?

its time to start looking.  were grigson and pagano on your radar at this point in 2011?  the sooner irsay finds an answer the better.

 

at the very least its time to take a long look at pep

[Lucky Colts Fan]

its time to start looking.  were grigson and pagano on your radar at this point in 2011?  the sooner irsay finds an answer the better.

 

at the very least its time to take a long look at pep

 

You just re-iterated that you wanted these people fired, yet offered NO VIABLE REPLACEMENT!

 

So, again, I will ask this very simply. 

 

WHO do you want to replace Grigson, Pagano, and Pep?  WHO is/will be available to replace them, AND do a better job?

 

WHO?!?  Don't complain about something unless you have a solution to the problem.

[Dustin]

I STATED ON THIS FORUM BEFORE THAT LUCK WAS A AVERAGE QB THAT COULD NOT WIN BIG GAMES.I TOOK A LOT OF HEAT FOR MY COMMENTS.HOW DO I SOUND NOW? ALSO THE FIRING OF PAGANO IS A MUST,AND THE REST OF THE STAFF SHOULD BE RELEASED AT END OF SEASON

Loud.

[aaron11]

It's like you forget the Colts have a history of sustained excellence.  Unless the Colts are perfect, they are a failure.  You are what other NFL fans like to call a "typical spoiled Colts fan"...

they have won one super bowl in my life and i'm 33 years old.  we dont look close now so yeah i am impatient.

 

 i dont expect to win it every year, but i expect to contend when we have a good QB and talent on both sides of the ball.  not to mention we play in a terrible division.  the talent was there last year to hang with the patriots and they got embarrassed twice.  not just beaten, but embarrassed

 

ask irsay if he expects excellence

[aaron11]

You just re-iterated that you wanted these people fired, yet offered NO VIABLE REPLACEMENT!

 

So, again, I will ask this very simply. 

 

WHO do you want to replace Grigson, Pagano, and Pep?  WHO is/will be available to replace them, AND do a better job?

 

WHO?!?  Don't complain about something unless you have a solution to the problem.

time to start a search.  were grigs and pagano on your radar at this point in 2011?

[Dustin]

The question still stands though. Even at the end of the season, Belichick won't be for sale. Lombardi, Walsh, Knoll and Landry are NOT walking through that door.

So, WHO is going to replace the pink slips? WHO do you want for GM, HC, and OC?

Nick Caserio and Josh McDaniels.

[ColtsBTM12]

Texans are a joke like us.

 

Eagles and Colts could have a strong offensive shootout ending in 10-7.

 

Eli would cook us up right now.

We could take the Giants and Texans right now. Eagles would probably beat us.

[Superman]

Nick Caserio and Josh McDaniels.

 

No thanks. I'd like to see a Belichick assistant succeed somewhere. All of them have been bad once they leave: Weis, Crennel, McDaniels, Mangini, Pioli, Lombardi... O'Brien is still TBD, but it doesn't look great so far. Let me see one of his guys do a good job over a sustained period of time. Until then, they are all riding his coattails. The one guy I might make an exception for is Matt Patricia, but I wouldn't be eager to do that.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

time to start a search.  were grigs and pagano on your radar at this point in 2011?

 

So go search for their replacements and come back when you have a valid argument like Dustin.  I'm not calling for their heads, so I don't need to search for their replacements.  That's your job.

 

Nick Caserio and Josh McDaniels.

 

Thank you.  I assume McDaniels would be our OC, which is OK by me, although both have the Belichick taint.  I doubt either will do well outside of NE.  At least they could be considered viable replacements.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

they have won one super bowl in my life and i'm 33 years old.  we dont look close now so yeah i am impatient.

 

 i dont expect to win it every year, but i expect to contend when we have a good QB and talent on both sides of the ball.  not to mention we play in a terrible division.  the talent was there last year to hang with the patriots and they got embarrassed twice.  not just beaten, but embarrassed

 

ask irsay if he expects excellence

 

I'm 32, so I have that one SB as well.  But let's put that into context, do you know how many fans have lived and died without seeing their team even make it to the SB?

 

I want a SB every year, but I know that's not realistic, and I'm happy I got to see a Colts SB win in my lifetime.  On top of that, I got to see Manning, Dungy, and Polian finally win one.

 

What if we had done what the fans wanted at the end of the 2006 regular season and fired Dungy for not improving our D enough, and Polian for not bringing in the right talent?

[Dustin]

No thanks. I'd like to see a Belichick assistant succeed somewhere. All of them have been bad once they leave: Weis, Crennel, McDaniels, Mangini, Pioli, Lombardi... O'Brien is still TBD, but it doesn't look great so far. Let me see one of his guys do a good job over a sustained period of time. Until then, they are all riding his coattails. The one guy I might make an exception for is Matt Patricia, but I wouldn't be eager to do that.

McDaniels failed because he was given total roster control and blew up the team. IIRC he had the Kyle Orton led Broncos at 6-0 at one point.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

No thanks. I'd like to see a Belichick assistant succeed somewhere. All of them have been bad once they leave: Weis, Crennel, McDaniels, Mangini, Pioli, Lombardi... O'Brien is still TBD, but it doesn't look great so far. Let me see one of his guys do a good job over a sustained period of time. Until then, they are all riding his coattails. The one guy I might make an exception for is Matt Patricia, but I wouldn't be eager to do that.

 

 

McDaniels failed because he was given total roster control and blew up the team. IIRC he had the Kyle Orton led Broncos at 6-0 at one point.

 

It's really hard to judge everyone on Belichicks' coaching tree because it's in progress and it's such a hard tree to define.

 

Walshs' tree was a west coast offense tree.

 

Dungys' tree was a tampa 2 defense tree.

 

Ryans' tree was an attacking defense tree.

 

Lombardis' tree was a power run tree.

 

Johnsons' tree was a "make a million trades for the best roster" tree.

 

Belichicks' tree is like every other tree rolled into one, plus he's got these bushes at the base of the tree that may or may not be helping the tree, but there's no way to prove if he's been responsible for the bushes the whole time...

 

I think Belichick is the reason for NEs' success, and all of his "successful" assistants have just benefitted from Belichick making them look good.

[Superman]

McDaniels failed because he was given total roster control and blew up the team. IIRC he had the Kyle Orton led Broncos at 6-0 at one point.

 

He traded up for Tim Tebow. That's not very encouraging. Of course, that's roster management and not coaching. I think he's a really good OC, but that's with Belichick's oversight. No one has done well away from him.

[JPFolks]

Team realized that the Colts live and die by the deep ball and if you blitz, there's no time for the plays downfield to develop. This is what happens when your receivers don't get open underneath. 

Guess who was GREAT at getting open anywhere on the field? Reggie Wayne.  Guess who is missing this year? Reggie Wayne.   Maybe he's a step slower, but he's STILL gotta be far superior to Johnson who is as lackluster and disinterested as anyone I have seen.  Gore at least brings it (when they let him on the field, is he on a pitch count running the ball?  It sure looks like it, even when the game is on the line).  

 

Anderson and Parry at least look like upgrades on D.  But who else really looks great from post 2012 draftees?  Moncrief and Mewhort perhaps.  That's about it.  All the other draftees have tanked. The FA's overall have been likely the worst in the league, or at least in the conversation.  And we're stuck with some of them perhaps well after Grigson is fired meaning we're screwed for years to come.