Pep Hamilton vs. Andrew Luck [Merge]

[crazycolt1]

I still blame PEP... didnt have any problems when bruce was calling plays as OC... offense went dry when pep came in.

Arians play calling would have eventually got Luck on IR just like all of his QBs do.

[The Peytonator]

Arians play calling would have eventually got Luck on IR just like all of his QBs do.

 

 

When did Ben go on IR?

[B~Town]

Arians play calling would have eventually got Luck on IR just like all of his QBs do.

I thought Luck was hit more than any QB in the league in Peps system .

[crazycolt1]

I thought Luck was hit more than any QB in the league in Peps system .

Him and Big Ben have been hit more than any QBs. Arians play calling is not slow delivery QBs best calls. Every QB that has started for Arians have taken way too many hits. Arians down field play calling does not fit QBs like Luck and Big Bens type of play.

[NewEra]

Manning has one of the quickest releases in the NFL. Luck don't.

.

Was also the plays they ran. Get the ball out fast. I think our play calling sucks. Has since pep has been here

[B~Town]

Him and Big Ben have been hit more than any QBs. Arians play calling is not slow delivery QBs best calls. Every QB that has started for Arians have taken way too many hits. Arians down field play calling does not fit QBs like Luck and Big Bens type of play.

We won Vs best teams in NFL under Arians with Pep we have fell flat and got blown out . The team has more talent and should be more polished .

[crazycolt1]

.

Was also the plays they ran. Get the ball out fast. I think our play calling sucks. Has since pep has been here

Manning had years to establish timing patters and Luck has yet to have the time to learn that. We can all have different reasons why things are not working to perfection but it takes time for a team to get the right players and then time to jell. It does not happen in three short years after a rebuild. Luck and the Colts have done something no other team has done but yet so many want more and when they don't get it they want heads to roll. This is real football, not fantasy.

[CanuckColt]

We won Vs best teams in NFL under Arians with Pep we have fell flat and got blown out . The team has more talent and should be more polished .

Pep never coached in Indy when Arians was here during 2012.

Arians was the OC and also became interim HC when Pagano got sick.

Pep was hired for the 2013 season after Arians left for Arizona.

 

Pep is incompetent and out-of-his-league in the NFL.

[Coffeedrinker]

The reason I am "pilling on" Pep is because he is a bad offensive coordinator.  Even if Luck is changing the play at the LOS, he should be changing it to something that is within the game plan and the game plan should include the various defenses the team will throw at you based on down, distance and yard line.

 

Teams have databases that track a team's tendencies and that is what the game plan is supposed to be developed around and Pep, not just in the Buffalo game but in his tenure with the Colts, seems unable to do that.  I mean my word, Football 201 to beat the blitz is you attack between the hashes with the TEs and RBs.  You don't attack a blitz by throwing 8-12 yard out patterns.  Think about it, if you throw a 5 yard pass to a TE between the hashes you are throwing a 12-15 yard pass, if you throw an 8 yard out or hook pattern to a WR, even if it's to the near sideline that is a 24-30 yard pass... twice as long which means it takes twice as long to get there, so you combine that with the QB getting rid of the ball quicker than he wants and the DBs playing tight and not worrying about anything deep you get a WR that gets tackled as soon as he catches it (assuming it's a catchable ball).

 

Luck looked completely unprepared for the Buffalo D.... that is on the OC, that is what practices all week are designed to do, prepare the team for most things the D will throw at them.  And the Colts slow starts offensively would indicate that pep is just not good at developing the initial game plan.

[jabbanobadda]

He probably audibles out of runs because the run plays called in has the whole team all bunched up creating a formation that resembles a ball of players...a rolling ball of butcher knives maybe?  I kid...but not really.

 

Is pep allergic to running out of a spread formation?  Seriously. 

[Pelt]

Yes, Luck was off on Sunday, but I think people are piling on Pep because he can't seem to make in-game adjustments. It's like he has the list of plays and just goes down the list regardless of the situation or downs. 

 

Buffalo was bringing the house constantly and we just kept trying to run long developing routes. Where were all the blitz beating plays?  SLANT TO AJ, run off tackle, screens, throw to RB <- I think we did that one time maybe? 

 

We didn't even start dinking and dunking until 3rd quarter (on the scoring drive that took waaaaaay too long) 

I'm not disagreeing with this at all, but how do we know that Pep wasn't trying to do exactly this, but Luck kept calling audibles out of them? I couldn't believe how bad Luck was in that first half. Everything was to T.Y. He was even staring him down like a rookie, instead of a four-year veteran. He's way smarter and better than that and I really hope that this is the last that we'll see him doing that this year. 

 

Luck has too many weapons at his disposal and he can't turn T.Y. into his next Reggie. He's got to do a better job of spreading the ball around, in a more balanced attack - keeping the defenses guessing.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

I still blame PEP... didnt have any problems when bruce was calling plays as OC... offense went dry when pep came in.

 

I remember having quite a few issues with slow starts when Arians was here (Green Bay game?). Also, zero playoff wins with Arians calling the plays.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

The reason I am "pilling on" Pep is because he is a bad offensive coordinator.  Even if Luck is changing the play at the LOS, he should be changing it to something that is within the game plan and the game plan should include the various defenses the team will throw at you based on down, distance and yard line.

 

Teams have databases that track a team's tendencies and that is what the game plan is supposed to be developed around and Pep, not just in the Buffalo game but in his tenure with the Colts, seems unable to do that.  I mean my word, Football 201 to beat the blitz is you attack between the hashes with the TEs and RBs.  You don't attack a blitz by throwing 8-12 yard out patterns.  Think about it, if you throw a 5 yard pass to a TE between the hashes you are throwing a 12-15 yard pass, if you throw an 8 yard out or hook pattern to a WR, even if it's to the near sideline that is a 24-30 yard pass... twice as long which means it takes twice as long to get there, so you combine that with the QB getting rid of the ball quicker than he wants and the DBs playing tight and not worrying about anything deep you get a WR that gets tackled as soon as he catches it (assuming it's a catchable ball).

 

Luck looked completely unprepared for the Buffalo D.... that is on the OC, that is what practices all week are designed to do, prepare the team for most things the D will throw at them.  And the Colts slow starts offensively would indicate that pep is just not good at developing the initial game plan.

 

That's cool & all, but they didn't really have a ton of tape to watch for preparation considering it was week 1, and the Bills have a new coach. There's no way to know how their defense was going to attack the Colts' offense with Ryan at the helm. Buffalo did a great job disguising their coverages, and had Luck flat out confused. Give credit to Buffalo.

[jabbanobadda]

Him and Big Ben have been hit more than any QBs. Arians play calling is not slow delivery QBs best calls. Every QB that has started for Arians have taken way too many hits. Arians down field play calling does not fit QBs like Luck and Big Bens type of play.

I agree with Arians long bombs getting QBs killed.

 

However, what was with Peps play calling on Sunday?  Why weren't there more quick slants, screens and such that would have helped slow down the blitz?  Or were those plays called but no one open?  I have to say completely abandoning the run so early didn't help matters.

[jabbanobadda]

That's cool & all, but they didn't really have a ton of tape to watch for preparation considering it was week 1, and the Bills have a new coach. There's no way to know how their defense was going to attack the Colts' offense with Ryan at the helm. Buffalo did a great job disguising their coverages, and had Luck flat out confused. Give credit to Buffalo.

Hogwash I say!  

[NewEra]

Manning had years to establish timing patters and Luck has yet to have the time to learn that. We can all have different reasons why things are not working to perfection but it takes time for a team to get the right players and then time to jell. It does not happen in three short years after a rebuild. Luck and the Colts have done something no other team has done but yet so many want more and when they don't get it they want heads to roll. This is real football, not fantasy.

No one is blaming Luck. Real offensive coordinators out their QB and offense in best position to win. Not do what we're going to and attempt to force our will. Good oc's adapt offense from game to game and within game. That's real football not fantasy.

[crazycolt1]

I agree with Arians long bombs getting QBs killed.

 

However, what was with Peps play calling on Sunday?  Why weren't there more quick slants, screens and such that would have helped slow down the blitz?  Or were those plays called but no one open?  I have to say completely abandoning the run so early didn't help matters.

A few of those types of plays were called. But Luck was off target most of the game. Once the Colts got down as many as they were the run game wasn't going to help. Give credit to the Bills for playing the Colts perfect. I have a feeling no matter what the Colts did or didn't do wasn't going to work against the Bills and their stellar defense. They had a opening home game with a new coach and was super fired up. Hopefully the Colts Monday night game we will see the home field used to their advantage.

[jabbanobadda]

A few of those types of plays were called. But Luck was off target most of the game. Once the Colts got down as many as they were the run game wasn't going to help. Give credit to the Bills for playing the Colts perfect. I have a feeling no matter what the Colts did or didn't do wasn't going to work against the Bills and their stellar defense. They had a opening home game with a new coach and was super fired up. Hopefully the Colts Monday night game we will see the home field used to their advantage.

I hope so too.

 

On a side note...a Bears fan at work was making fun of me because the Colts didn't score as many points as the Bears did against the Packers.  He then stated that the Bears did that against the Packers top notch D which is waaaaayyyyy better than the Bills D.  I laughed in his face...

[JColts72]

Because he has no in game adjustment plans, and wastes the talnet he has on offense.

[Pancake Block]

To me, the coordinator at any point in the game should be able to tell the QB that the game is getting away from him and we're not going to audible out of every run play four series in a row.

Blame Luck for not being sharp, but blame Pep for not reeling Luck in at some during that 16-3 streak of paases vs runs.

Pep is part of the problem, but nobody seems to give Luck much grief for the way the O is and has been playing.  Everyone talks about Luck's talent level and how he is the best young QB in the league.  It's year 4.  He needs to step up.  Brady and Rothlisberger won SB as rookies.  Maybe he hasn't had the supporting cast he's needed yet, but from a skill position standpoint, he can't complain too much about his weapons.  I'll be the first to admit that the OL is far from the NFL's best and I think that goes right to the GM and Head Coach.  They apparently think they can coach 5th and 6th rounders up to play like 1st rounders.  Yes, technique and communication is 90% of the deal on the OL, but that other 10% can be the difference between winning and losing.  Given that Pep's offense is supposed to be a version of the West Coast Offense, we aren't a very good screen team.  Maybe we don't have enough athleticism on the OL to run screens, but we need more ways to beat these blitzes if we're going anywhere this year.

[crazycolt1]

Pep is part of the problem, but nobody seems to give Luck much grief for the way the O is and has been playing.  Everyone talks about Luck's talent level and how he is the best young QB in the league.  It's year 4.  He needs to step up.  Brady and Rothlisberger won SB as rookies.  Maybe he hasn't had the supporting cast he's needed yet, but from a skill position standpoint, he can't complain too much about his weapons.  I'll be the first to admit that the OL is far from the NFL's best and I think that goes right to the GM and Head Coach.  They apparently think they can coach 5th and 6th rounders up to play like 1st rounders.  Yes, technique and communication is 90% of the deal on the OL, but that other 10% can be the difference between winning and losing.  Given that Pep's offense is supposed to be a version of the West Coast Offense, we aren't a very good screen team.  Maybe we don't have enough athleticism on the OL to run screens, but we need more ways to beat these blitzes if we're going anywhere this year.

Yeah we know just how bad Luck is. What Brady and Ben did has zero to do with Luck. You think a supporting cast maybe had something to do with it? Luck has not only broken just about every three year QB record there is and has done it with a rebuilt team. He is sad for sure.

[Coffeedrinker]

That's cool & all, but they didn't really have a ton of tape to watch for preparation considering it was week 1, and the Bills have a new coach. There's no way to know how their defense was going to attack the Colts' offense with Ryan at the helm. Buffalo did a great job disguising their coverages, and had Luck flat out confused. Give credit to Buffalo.

That's nonsense.... Ryan has been a coach in the NFL a long time.  And if Pep developed the game plan on only what he could review in the preseason that is further proof he is not a good OC.

[Jonathan24]

Arians play calling would have eventually got Luck on IR just like all of his QBs do.

 

I dont think Ben ended up on IR... only QB that ended up on IR was Carson Palmer

[Jonathan24]

I remember having quite a few issues with slow starts when Arians was here (Green Bay game?). Also, zero playoff wins with Arians calling the plays.

When arians was there that was a very young team.. Actually rebuilding and didnt have experience.  Since pep came in EVERY colts game start off slow... even against lesser opponents.

[crazycolt1]

I dont think Ben ended up on IR... only QB that ended up on IR was Carson Palmer

Had Ben not been so big and strong he would have been on IR IMO. I have seen Ben so beat up he could barely walk where a regular QB would not even have been in a game. But I get your point.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

I like how he says some of it is on luck. Here is my personal problem. Luck, is a player. He hasn't even warranted coordinator on the field like Peyton manning has. Sure he audibled out of "some" plays but this doesn't give pep a free pass on his play calling that has continued to be a problem over the last 2 seasons. I like how some of you guys are giving him a pass because luck audibled out of "some" plays.

[Dudley Smith]

I like how he says some of it is on luck. Here is my personal problem. Luck, is a player. He hasn't even warranted coordinator on the field like Peyton manning has. Sure he audibled out of "some" plays but this doesn't give pep a free pass on his play calling that has continued to be a problem over the last 2 seasons. I like how some of you guys are giving him a pass because luck audibled out of "some" plays.

 

Exactly. There is no denying Luck was off this past Sunday and missed some throws he should make, but good grief, Pep is supposed to be the coach of the offense. Even if it was truly Luck's decision to keep changing the play at the LOS (and I am not convinced it is just because Pagano had a one-liner about this in his news conference), Pep needs to do his job and rein Luck in. However, given Pep's history of head-scratching play-calling in the past, I think this was more Pep than Luck personally.

[ReMeDy]

YES! I've seen so many teams do this its pathetic. Why would you run on a 1st and 25? I mean it makes no sense. Chances are you aren't going to pick up 10-15 yards or nothing. Hell if it were me I wouldn't ever call a run on a 3rd and 25 like we do sometimes. You know unless we're at our own 1 yard line and just trying to get some space for Patty Mac to punt it off. Take a gamble and go for the 1st down lol.

 

The odds of converting a 3rd & 25 are slim, assuming there isn't another penalty on top of it. If the QB is passing it, they need to hold onto the ball longer to wait for the receivers routes to develop, which puts the QB at risk of a sack, or worst case scenario, an injury and/or fumble. In that scenario, it's often better to just run a draw play and hope you get about 10yds to give your team better punting position, especially if it means potentially pinning them within their 5-yd line. 

 

Several other things could play into 3rd & 25 decisions, like the weather. In our case, the heavy rain made catching the footballs problematic. Once it hit Andre and he dropped it. Then Dorsett muffed two ST's returns.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Arians play calling would have eventually got Luck on IR just like all of his QBs do.

 

Quick question: how many playoff games or division titles has Bruce Arians won since he took over for the Cardinals?

[crazycolt1]

Quick question: how many playoff games or division titles has Bruce Arians won since he took over for the Cardinals?

zero is my guess. I would have to look it up to be sure.