Let's give Grigs some appreciation

[Chucklez]

Yes, Grigs made the infamous T-Rich trade, one which should (and does) receive the criticism it got / gets.... but he made another trade which I think more than atones for the botched T-Rich experiment.

 

I am of course talking about the Vontae Davis trade, for no more than a 2nd rounder at that! He is by far the most valuable player on our D, all you have to do is look at our defensive stats when he is in the game vs when he is out and it's very telling. 

 

Case and point, before Vontae went out against the Steelers in the 1st quarter. The 1st quarter ended a Colts - 3 Steelers - 7.

 

The 2nd quarter ended Colts - 20 Steelers - 35.... an 11 point pull-away by the Steelers on route to Big Ben's over 500 yards in the air and 6 TDs.

 

We all know this, I just wanted to shine a bit more light on what Grigs has got right rather than the mistakes he has made and give him the kudos he deserves for that amazing trade.

 

What's your view? Did the two cancel each other out? Personally I think the Vontae trade was worth so much more to us because it filled a position of need with someone who is playing like a top 3-5 corner in the NFL and he is the heart of that D.

 

 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Yes, Grigs made the infamous T-Rich trade, one which should (and does) receive the criticism it got / gets.... but he made another trade which I think more than atones for the botched T-Rich experiment.

 

I am of course talking about the Vontae Davis trade, for no more than a 2nd rounder at that! He is by far the most valuable player on our D, all you have to do is look at our defensive stats when he is in the game vs when he is out and it's very telling. 

 

Case and point, before Vontae went out against the Steelers in the 1st quarter. The 1st quarter ended a Colts - 3 Steelers - 7.

 

The 2nd quarter ended Colts - 20 Steelers - 35.... an 11 point pull-away by the Steelers on route to Big Ben's over 500 yards in the air and 6 TDs.

 

We all know this, I just wanted to shine a bit more light on what Grigs has got right rather than the mistakes he has made and give him the kudos he deserves for that amazing trade.

 

What's your view? Did the two cancel each other out? Personally I think the Vontae trade was worth so much more to us because it filled a position of need with someone who is playing like a top 3-5 corner in the NFL and he is the heart of that D.

 

 

The Davis trade was a homerun, especially considering that we got him for draft picks. It was a creative gamble that paid off big-time. The Richardson trade had similar potential, but it just didn't pan out. I'm not sure what happened to Trent in the process, but he looked nothing like the runner that he was in Cleveland his rookie season. Overall, I'm satisfied with the majority of moves Grigson has made. Definitely a couple of head-scratchers in the mix, but that's bound to happen, he isn't leaving any stone unturned when looking for talent.

[TKnight24]

The Davis trade was a homerun, especially considering that we got him for draft picks. It was a creative gamble that paid off big-time. The Richardson trade had similar potential, but it just didn't pan out. I'm not sure what happened to Trent in the process, but he looked nothing like the runner that he was in Cleveland his rookie season. Overall, I'm satisfied with the majority of moves Grigson has made. Definitely a couple of head-scratchers in the mix, but that's bound to happen, he isn't leaving any stone unturned when looking for talent.

Trent got fatter is what happened, must've gotten depressed when Cleveland dumped him and cuddled himself up at night with a gallon of Ben & Jerry's finest ice cream

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Trent got fatter is what happened, must've gotten depressed when Cleveland dumped him and cuddled himself up at night with a gallon of Ben & Jerry's finest ice cream

 

He did seem to take getting traded personally, and I think the Jim Brown comments also had an effect on his psyche. Either way, just glad the whole episode is over, seems like everyone involved was ready to move on.

[BOTT]

The Davis trade was a homerun, especially considering that we got him for draft picks. It was a creative gamble that paid off big-time. The Richardson trade had similar potential, but it just didn't pan out. I'm not sure what happened to Trent in the process, but he looked nothing like the runner that he was in Cleveland his rookie season. Overall, I'm satisfied with the majority of moves Grigson has made. Definitely a couple of head-scratchers in the mix, but that's bound to happen, he isn't leaving any stone unturned when looking for talent.

He wasn't that impressive in Cleveland.

While I loved the Vonte trade and thought it was a no brainer, it still doesn't cancel out the TRich trade because it was horrible to even contemplate that move.

[colts8718]

He wasn't that impressive in Cleveland.

While I loved the Vonte trade and thought it was a no brainer, it still doesn't cancel out the TRich trade because it was horrible to even contemplate that move.

[Gavin]

Some trades work out, some trades don't. In the end the Davis trade helped us more then the Richardson trade hurt us. The Richardson trade cost us a 1st round pick of a player we don't know how much would have produced...But the trade did not set us back. It simply just did not produce positive results, Other decisions made could be argued set us back at certain positions that have cost us...Did the Richardson trade cost us? Absolutely, Of course it did......But I think its quite clear the Vontae trade helped more. We have a Corner who has been playing at a top 5 level almost since he got here locking down top wr's....What he needs is his counter part

[That Guy]

As far as the Trent Richardson trade goes, the Browns ended up trading our pick and a third for Johnny Manziel.  I think they ended up worse off than we did in the whole deal.

[Flash7]

If we are looking at the trades that Grigson has made, I definitely like the V. Davis trade. I can understand the T-Rich trade, although it didn't work out. T-Rich had perceived potential that was never realized.

 

I can't understand why he traded Jerry Hughes for Kelvin Sheppard. I know that Hughes didn't perform well here, but Sheppard? Out of the two, Jerry Hughes had way more upside and athleticism. Perhaps there are behind the scenes reasons? Bad attitude? etc...

[Dustin]

As far as the Trent Richardson trade goes, the Browns ended up trading our pick and a third for Johnny Manziel. I think they ended up worse off than we did in the whole deal.

Not really. Trent actually played in games. Likley cost us games that would have otherwise given us higher seeds in the playoffs.

[BOTT]

Oh my bad. In Grigson we trust, pagano for president, blah blah blah

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Oh my bad. In Grigson we trust, pagano for president, blah blah blah

 

There's no way that anyone, including yourself, knew that that trade was going to pan out the way that it did. It was early in the season, the backfield was plagued by injuries, and desperate for a runningback. Grigson was in a tight spot and pulled the trigger. Regardless, the team was still able to make it deeper in the playoffs each season despite Richardson's woes in the backfield. Are you really holding a grudge over it?

[That Guy]

Not really. Trent actually played in games. Likley cost us games that would have otherwise given us higher seeds in the playoffs.

 

To say he was bad is one thing; to say he single-handedly lost us games is just ridiculous.  Which of the eleven losses we've suffered since he arrived are you blaming on him alone?  The blowout losses to the Patriots (x3), the Cowboys, the Steelers, the Rams, the Cardinals, or the Chargers?  Or is it the closer losses to the Broncos, the Eagles, or the Bengals?

[ColtsFanMikeC]

Yes, Grigs made the infamous T-Rich trade, one which should (and does) receive the criticism it got / gets.... but he made another trade which I think more than atones for the botched T-Rich experiment.

 

I am of course talking about the Vontae Davis trade, for no more than a 2nd rounder at that! He is by far the most valuable player on our D, all you have to do is look at our defensive stats when he is in the game vs when he is out and it's very telling. 

 

Case and point, before Vontae went out against the Steelers in the 1st quarter. The 1st quarter ended a Colts - 3 Steelers - 7.

 

The 2nd quarter ended Colts - 20 Steelers - 35.... an 11 point pull-away by the Steelers on route to Big Ben's over 500 yards in the air and 6 TDs.

 

We all know this, I just wanted to shine a bit more light on what Grigs has got right rather than the mistakes he has made and give him the kudos he deserves for that amazing trade.

 

What's your view? Did the two cancel each other out? Personally I think the Vontae trade was worth so much more to us because it filled a position of need with someone who is playing like a top 3-5 corner in the NFL and he is the heart of that D.

 

 

Not every move a GM makes will be perfect.  Trent's trade didn't work out, but it made sense at the time it was made.  Grigs took the worst team in the league and has taken us to the playoffs each year he's been here.  We are now a legitimate superbowl contender just 4  years after we were the laughing stock of the league.  Good job, Grigs.

 

He wasn't that impressive in Cleveland.

While I loved the Vonte trade and thought it was a no brainer, it still doesn't cancel out the TRich trade because it was horrible to even contemplate that move.

 

It made sense at the time.  Ballard went out for the season.  Bradshaw was always injury prone.  Donnie Brown wasn't the back Pagano wanted in our system.  Sure the trade didn't work out, but we were stretched very thin at RB and needed to find someone.  That was a big gamble, but Trent showed promise on a crappy CLE team as a rookie and was dominant in college -- he regressed after he got here, but the trade made sense to me at the time.

 

Not really. Trent actually played in games. Likley cost us games that would have otherwise given us higher seeds in the playoffs.

 

Can you name any games in particular where Trent single-handedly cost us the game?  Last year, we got down to Denver and couldn't come back.  We should have beaten Philly but Luck threw a pick in the redzone near the end of the game.  We got throttled by Pittsburgh, NE, and Dallas -- blow out games where it wouldn't have mattered if Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch or DeMarco Murray was in our backfield.   Not Richardson's fault.

 

2013 we got throttled by the Bengals, Cardinals, and Rams.  We lost to Miami in a game Richardson didn't play in and we got beaten in a pretty crappy game vs. San Diego.

 

What worries me most about this team, which is part of the reason Irsay said he was holding off on giving Pags a contract extension, is we simply don't show up some weeks.  Trent had some poor games, but I don't think it's fair to say we lost any games solely due to him.

[TKnight24]

To say he was bad is one thing; to say he single-handedly lost us games is just ridiculous. Which of the eleven losses we've suffered since he arrived are you blaming on him alone? The blowout losses to the Patriots (x3), the Cowboys, the Steelers, the Rams, the Cardinals, or the Chargers? Or is it the closer losses to the Broncos, the Eagles, or the Bengals?

Eagles loss was on Pep not knowing when to throw the ball and when to run it

Could also blame the refs for the blown call on the GW int from Jenkins but still, mostly Pep fault

[crazycolt1]

As far as Grigs goes there are some who think he don't know what he is doing. It don't matter that when he took this team over he had no NFL team to work with and was way too deep in cap debt. He hit a home run his first draft and now some think that should happen every season. When he made the TRich trade 90% of the fans base was all for it including those who whine about it to this day. Grigs and his staff work very hard at trying to find talent without getting the team in cap trouble. His statement when hired he would never put the Colts in the cap space problem they were is when he took over. Considering he had never been a GM before IMO he has done a fantastic job with what he started with. This team has been just as exciting in the time he has been here as they were with Dungy except for the year before the super bowl and the super bowl year. IMO there are too many Colt fans who are spoiled with winning and expect they should win the super bowl every year and the odds of that are slim. A hand full of plays throughout the year can make of break the chances of winning games. Winning games has a lot to do with pure luck. (no pun intended) What I have learned is it takes every player on the team to make plays, not just the starters. Some just don't comprehend that the cap space limits Grigs from signing all pro players at every position. Grigs is no different than any one of us in that hindsight is 20-20.

[RockThatBlue]

Grigs isn't perfect faaaaarrrr grigs

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

Grigs is doing a good job only being a GM for four years and our team progressing

every year in the playoffs. He is new at this just as Luck is getting his NFL game

going smoothly.

[CanuckColt]

...cuddled himself up at night with a gallon of Ben & Jerry's finest ice cream

Sounds like what Arthur Jones does a lot.

[Yoshinator]

I've been on board with everything Grigson has done except the Richardson trade. It's not that we knew it wouldn't work or something like that that makes me mad, we had no idea. It's the fact that he traded a 1st rounder for the easiest position in football to acquire when he could of picked up a FA rb like Willis McGahee or traded a 5th or 6th for someone like Toby Gerhart at the time. Yes, I get Trent was the 3rd overall pick and our pick was probably going to be in the mid 20s that year, but he was an rb. If it was Jamaal Charles or Lesean McCoy it would of been different. Also if it was a situation where maybe Toler and Butler went down and Grigson decided to trade for Morris Claiborne to get "two shutdown corners" or something like that, I could of gotten more behind the idea because CB is a premium position. 

 

The good thing is, it seems Grigson learned from that mistake and we didn't take Tevin Coleman or another RB in the first two rounds this year. We got a nice RB in Josh Robinson and hopefully Grigson never makes the same terrible mistake twice. If he can learn from his mistakes, then he'll continue to be a top 3 GM.

[Dustin]

To say he was bad is one thing; to say he single-handedly lost us games is just ridiculous. Which of the eleven losses we've suffered since he arrived are you blaming on him alone? The blowout losses to the Patriots (x3), the Cowboys, the Steelers, the Rams, the Cardinals, or the Chargers? Or is it the closer losses to the Broncos, the Eagles, or the Bengals?

Eagles game fore sure is one. 2 fumbles that game. Other games where we probably could have won had the offense not have been hamstrung from the beginning.

[CanuckColt]

I am a big fan of Grigson...we are fortunate to have him...kudos to Big Jim for hiring him.

[Chucklez]

I've been on board with everything Grigson has done except the Richardson trade. It's not that we knew it wouldn't work or something like that that makes me mad, we had no idea. It's the fact that he traded a 1st rounder for the easiest position in football to acquire when he could of picked up a FA rb like Willis McGahee or traded a 5th or 6th for someone like Toby Gerhart at the time. Yes, I get Trent was the 3rd overall pick and our pick was probably going to be in the mid 20s that year, but he was an rb. If it was Jamaal Charles or Lesean McCoy it would of been different. Also if it was a situation where maybe Toler and Butler went down and Grigson decided to trade for Morris Claiborne to get "two shutdown corners" or something like that, I could of gotten more behind the idea because CB is a premium position. 

 

The good thing is, it seems Grigson learned from that mistake and we didn't take Tevin Coleman or another RB in the first two rounds this year. We got a nice RB in Josh Robinson and hopefully Grigson never makes the same terrible mistake twice. If he can learn from his mistakes, then he'll continue to be a top 3 GM.

I'd be tempted to say that the only RB that is truly worthy of a 1st round pick is Adrian Peterson... You can make the argument for Jamaal Charles as well because he essentially is the Chiefs offense. But beyond those two, NO RB is worth the 1st rounder... not even Shady.

[Nrcheek16]

that first draft was ridiculous as well

 

and the 2nd was pretty decent..

 

he's gotten solid starters in every draft it seems, as well as bringing in free agents with team friendly contracts...

 

give the man props

Edited July 14, 2015 by 21isSuperman

[That Guy]

Eagles game fore sure is one. 2 fumbles that game. Other games where we probably could have won had the offense not have been hamstrung from the beginning.

 

Our inability to stop McCoy and Sproles lost us that game (with help from some missed calls).  Trent Richardson actually had a few good runs in that game.  You need to find another scapegoat if you wish to maintain your credibility.

[Jason_]

Eagles loss was on Pep not knowing when to throw the ball and when to run it

Could also blame the refs for the blown call on the GW int from Jenkins but still, mostly Pep fault

 

The Eagle's loss was not on Pep. Just because you didn't agree with the play call (which is only because it didn't work) doesn't mean it was a bad play call.

[aaron11]

I'd be tempted to say that the only RB that is truly worthy of a 1st round pick is Adrian Peterson... You can make the argument for Jamaal Charles as well because he essentially is the Chiefs offense. But beyond those two, NO RB is worth the 1st rounder... not even Shady.

It depends on team situations. I know they didn't draft him but marshawn lynch is worth a first round pick to Seattle. Same with KC and jamal charles.

I feel like levon bell was a steal in the second round. Hes a game changer that added wins to the steelers record

[Dustin]

Our inability to stop McCoy and Sproles lost us that game (with help from some missed calls). Trent Richardson actually had a few good runs in that game. You need to find another scapegoat if you wish to maintain your credibility.

Oh no not muh internet credibility

[That Guy]

Oh no!  Someone called me out for saying something stupid, so I'm going to pretend it no longer matters to me (even though I spend a lot of time on the forum and post more than all but five people).

 

fixed it for you

[Dustin]

fixed it for you

Nah. Nothing I said was stupid. At least Manziel is still on the Browns roster and isn't in a position that directly hurts the team like TRich was.

[That Guy]

Nah. Nothing I said was stupid. At least Manziel is still on the Browns roster and isn't in a position that directly hurts the team like TRich was.

 

I'll give you that (and overlook the QB controversy Manziel creates), but chalking an "L" up as the being entirely TRich's fault is a little stupid.  Not entirely stupid but a little stupid.

[21isSuperman]

Nah. Nothing I said was stupid. At least Manziel is still on the Browns roster and isn't in a position that directly hurts the team like TRich was.

But do you blame Richardson for being incompetent, or do you blame the coaching staff for seeing how incompetent he was and still giving him starts and reps?

[Dustin]

But do you blame Richardson for being incompetent, or do you blame the coaching staff for seeing how incompetent he was and still giving him starts and reps?

 

Can i blame both?

[21isSuperman]

Can i blame both?

Yes.  But I think the coaches deserve more of the blame.  Richardson is a terrible RB, but the coaches refused to take him out of games.  Had they taken him out, the harm he did to the team would have been minimized.

[Jason_]

Yes.  But I think the coaches deserve more of the blame.  Richardson is a terrible RB, but the coaches refused to take him out of games.  Had they taken him out, the harm he did to the team would have been minimized.

 

you mean the coaches that gave him fewer and fewer reps per game until the point they benched him and then deactivated him?

[21isSuperman]

you mean the coaches that gave him fewer and fewer reps per game until the point they benched him and then deactivated him?

Richardson's 2014:

Started week 1 against the Broncos.  20 yards on 6 attempts = 3.33 ypc

Started week 2 against the Eagles. 79 yards on 21 attempts = 3.76 ypc, also had 2 fumbles

Started week 3 against Jacksonville.  57 yards on 14 attempts = 4.07 ypc

Started week 4 against Tennessee.  47 yards on 20 attempts = 2.35 (wow!) ypc

Started week 5 against Baltimore.  37 yards on 9 attempts = 4.11 ypc

Started week 6 against Houston.  41 yards on 17 carries = 2.41 (wow!) ypc

Started week 7 against Cincinnati.  77 yards on 14 carries = 5.5 ypc (one good game so far)

Started week 9 against New York.  33 yards on 7 carries = 4.71 ypc

Started week 10 against New England.  0 yards on 6 carries ()

 

I could go on, but I think you get the point

[Jason_]

)

 

I could go on, but I think you get the point

 

You could go on but it would only further prove my point....the coaching staff gave him fewer and fewer touches until they finally benched him.  BTW he had some decent (not gaudy mind you) receiving numbers during those games you cited.

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

Our inability to stop McCoy and Sproles lost us that game (with help from some missed calls).  Trent Richardson actually had a few good runs in that game.  You need to find another scapegoat if you wish to maintain your credibility.

I can't remember a game where Sproles didn't kill us. I hope Robinson can be a mini terror

for us as he and MJD did against the Colts.

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

Reliving the T Rich experiment makes me want to  Thanks guys.

[21isSuperman]

You could go on but it would only further prove my point....the coaching staff gave him fewer and fewer touches until they finally benched him.  BTW he had some decent (not gaudy mind you) receiving numbers during those games you cited.

He actually continued to start games until week 16, the Dallas game.  So the coaching staff continued to give him the start and he continued to have a decent number of touches.  A competent coaching staff does not continue to give a guy starts and touches when he's embarrassingly inept, yet ours did.  A lot of the blame for Richardson's poor contributions should go to the coaching staff, in my opinion.  Take him out of the game so he can't affect it with his horrible, painful-to-watch play