Would you say there is a lot less tolerance today to succeed in the nfl?

[bap1331]

No patience at all. Browns being the perfect example with their qbs. I think things really took a toll even worse the year luck and wilson took over. Everybody wants that diamond in the rough like wilson and we saw a lot of teams just clean the house expecting a huge turn around the year after *cough* bucs *cough* but I was really disappointed especially with such a great coach like luvie smith. We all seriously forgot he was in the league.

What is your opinion?

[CR91]

this is a win now business

[21isSuperman]

With the emergence of guys like Luck, Newton, Wilson, and even RG3 who have all had success in their rookie years, I think there is more pressure than ever on rookies coming into the league.  It's not fair, but it's the nature of the highly competitive, results-based business that is the NFL.

[loudnproudcolt]

I may be wrong, but another thing I think adding to it is the offense has been highlighted so much in the NFL, and the pressure to score points is greater, so more pressure on the QB's. Yes you may get more penalties, but the QB's coming out of the spread these days being produced by college are throw to you first read, maybe second, or run. Anticiplation is an incredible skill to learn, along with pocket presence, and you see great athletes coming out, but not translating. 

[amfootball]

The QB position is so vital to success that I don't think teams can afford to wait on guys like they used to in the past. Rookies are starters way more now than they used to be with the expectation to win out of the gate. I think the latter half of that statement is what makes things really hard for the new QBs and for coaches and GMs. It is by far the most difficult position in all of sports and the expectations are sky high. But as you say, when you have QBs like Wilson and Luck and Newton than you can see why. But I think the mindset shifted with Peyton and Brady entered the league. They both came in and had a lot of success early, Peyton more so with stats and Brady with championships that the expectation on the position shifted dramatically IMO.

[Valpo2004]

No patience at all. Browns being the perfect example with their qbs. I think things really took a toll even worse the year luck and wilson took over. Everybody wants that diamond in the rough like wilson and we saw a lot of teams just clean the house expecting a huge turn around the year after *cough* bucs *cough* but I was really disappointed especially with such a great coach like luvie smith. We all seriously forgot he was in the league.

What is your opinion?

 

Browns arn't too short with their QB's.  Name one of their QB's who's gone on to be a regular starter someplace else for multiple years.  No one has ever found their franchise QB by picking up an ex Browns QB.

 

However I think some teams are shorter with their coaches then others and in general I think the league is too short on their coaches.  Teams like the Browns and the Raiders are the worst in this regard.  They hire them to take over these honestly terrible teams, and when they don't win right away they let them go after like a year.  They have no time to build anything and the people running these teams seem completely unaware of just how terrible their team is always seemingly thinking that just getting the right coach can turn these guys into winners.

[-JJ-]

Yes much less. Even with coaches.  Its 3 years win the SB or be gone. Coaches like Chuck Knoll wouldn't survive with the same team as long today,

[Nadine]

Yep, NFL fans want their golden goose NOW!

 

[Qwiz]

 No doubt. And it's a sad thing to see. There's a lot of talent coming out of these colleges, but too many guys never get the chance to fully develop in the NFL. I guess that's why they call it Not For Long.

[Synthetic]

Coaches get fired in less than 3 years these days.

 

Actually, i think you could make a case for the entire country not having patience. They want everything NOW. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

The thing is, it is now a Quarterback driven league.  They get the bulk of the money.  The Elite ones have the best chance at helping their team win a Super Bowl  Very good ones can too if they are mistake free, get hot, and have a very good all around team surrounding them.  Everyone else flails until they find their Franchise QB. 

 

So there are essentially two type of teams.... those with a Franchise Q, and those without.  Those without seem to go through more turmoil.  The ones that do try to put better players around the QB in hopes of supplanting those other teams with a Franchise QB.  They appear to get more leeway, but not always if always the bridesmaid.

 

Every team and every fan of them has a goal to win the Super Bowl.  There are no moral victories, just the Lombardi.  Average career of a typical NFL player... 3 to 3 1/2 years.  Produce or get replaced. Same for coaches.

[funktacious2]

That's what's so bothersome. It's a win now league in the eyes of fans, owners, and the media, but it's just not that simple. You have to take time and a few successful drafts to form the backbone of what will eventually be your superbowl contending team. Not everyone goes 2-14 one year then 11-5 the next.

Now for part 2 which is seperated because it might be a bit of a homer: A lot of people would argue dynasties are formed from a combination of great ownership, great drafting from the GM, excellent coaching, and likely a franchise QB. I think this is certainly a key truth, but I think there is more to it that might show why some of the same teams wallow at the bottom while others are building a legacy at the top. To me the level of play of a team is perhaps the most crucial part of a teams development. You could say that some teams are just good finding diamonds in the rough, but I often wonder if there is a little more to it than that. Say the Patriots draft a 3rd round CB this year. The Pats need a CB, so they put a lot of scouting into them and find their man and pull the trigger. The guy is ultimately still a rookie, so you wonder, "How can this guy contribute as a starter in his first year on an elite team like the patriots?" Well my argument is that the process is expidited by the talent around him. Some people refer to it as "Baptism by Fire". You're a young athlete being thrusted into a culture where everyone around is a super bowl contender and they want to win and nothing else. You're going to know immediately that if you're to have a place on this team you need to follow suite. You're going to practice hard, study hard, and most importantly, since you're practicing along side elite team members you're learning to play at a high level early! It's like when I buy a first person shooter video game I like to play the campaign on hard first before I play online multilayer so that not only do I learn the mechanics that I'll need to apply against real competition, but I'm more prepared to play a higher level of competition. The danger in it though is that if the campaign is TOO hard then am I really gaining much expirience at all if I'm loosing too easily... perhaps I'm only learning to lose. Studies will show that habits in competition are hard to break. In competing you're acting fast using previous expirience and some natural insticts to try to win playing the same way you always do. I understand that this theory doesn't cover everything and their are plenty of outliers here such as draft busts from players going to these elite teams. But I've always felt there is a bit of weight to this winners learn to win and losers learn to lose theory. Any thoughts? Any objection? Any referrals to an insane asylum?

[ColtsBlueFL]

That's what's so bothersome. It's a win now league in the eyes of fans, owners, and the media, but it's just not that simple. You have to take time and a few successful drafts to form the backbone of what will eventually be your superbowl contending team. Not everyone goes 2-14 one year then 11-5 the next.

 

{snipped part 2}

 

Wow what a great take to segue into my story.  I was watching an older video of Bill Polian talking about the middle 1980's Bills.  The just came off a 2-14 season.  Polian was talking to Kay Stephenson about the upcoming draft.  Bill mentioned they finally had a ton of draft picks, and they should package a bulk of them and to move up and get a couple immediate impact players to 'save their jobs".  They couldn't afford to wait for their draft to 'grow'  because another 2-14 season would likely get them fired.  Stephenson said No to Polian, that they had an obligation to do this right for the organization.  Of course they landed Bruce Smith, Frank Reich (best backup QB ever) and Andre Reed among many others.

 

Now, of course, the bills did go 2-14 again that upcoming season, and Stephenson lost his job.  (not Polian) Marv Levy got the position in full and a couple years later, he and Polian went to the Division playoffs twice before going to the Super Bowl 4 straight seasons in a row. 

 

Stephenson had the right call, but Polian and Marv Levy got to enjoy the fruits of the labor.  Polian remembers and give credit where it's due.

 

So, even back then, there was a hot seat, and owners used it too.

[bap1331]

Coaches get fired in less than 3 years these days.

Actually, i think you could make a case for the entire country not having patience. They want everything NOW.

3 years?! More like 7 months lol.

[Synthetic]

The thing is, it is now a Quarterback driven league.  They get the bulk of the money.  The Elite ones have the best chance at helping their team win a Super Bowl  Very good ones can too if they are mistake free, get hot, and have a very good all around team surrounding them.  Everyone else flails until they find their Franchise QB. 

 

 

 

 

"Elite" (I hate this term so much) quarterbacks are not the ones constantly winning SB's.

 

it's teams that are well rounded and have stellar defenses along with good offenses that can move the ball. The Pats finally get ring #4 the year they have a defense again. 

 

Seattle has been back to back now, before them we had Flacco and Kaepernick in the big one. Eli has two rings, and no one thinks he's a great quarterback whatsoever. 

 

Quarterbacks are treated like Presidents. When everything is going great, everyone loves them, but the minute something bad happens, it's all their fault. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

"Elite" (I hate this term so much) quarterbacks are not the ones constantly winning SB's.

 

it's teams that are well rounded and have stellar defenses along with good offenses that can move the ball. The Pats finally get ring #4 the year they have a defense again. 

 

Seattle has been back to back now, before them we had Flacco and Kaepernick in the big one. Eli has two rings, and no one thinks he's a great quarterback whatsoever. 

 

Quarterbacks are treated like Presidents. When everything is going great, everyone loves them, but the minute something bad happens, it's all their fault. 

I understand what you are trying to say, but if you want a little homework, list ALL of the QB's that have won the Super Bowl since 2000.  We'll discuss Elite-ness from that list... OK?

 

And then we can discuss the QB's that might fit my other point-

 

"Very good ones can too if they are mistake free, get hot, and have a very good all around team surrounding them."

 

so then we can discuss who is Very Good on that list   ...   and those that are Utter crap (what we on the Fan Forum here seem to call the Avg. Guy....)

[Andrew Luck's Beard]

Coaches get fired in less than 3 years these days.

Actually, i think you could make a case for the entire country not having patience. They want everything NOW.

[chad72]

When you get a new QB, you need stability. Put him in a situation for at least 3 years with the OC and head coach locked in for those 3 years. In 3 years, you will know if he has it or not but if it is a situation like Alex Smith without stability, you will never know.