What is Denver about to do?

[pacolts56]

It is clear Elway got Manning (and other pro's) for the SB run "now format". ie the last two years. It failed although they got close.

Time to retool big time. Or maybe there is one more season of the win it now.

NE might have something to say about that tho :76devil:

Agreed...and if it were ONLY the Patriots creating roadblocks to the Super Bowl for Denver, I could halfway understand one last "win-now" approach to their off-season.

But if the Colts took them out last season...in Denver...it stands to reason that Pittsburgh and Baltimore wouldn't be any easier.

I get that Peyton wants another ring and Denver had a fairly good nucleus to build on when he got there...but the experiment simply has not worked.

And I don't believe it will going forward.

And with each passing season, Elway's moves...some of which, yes, will carry forward past Manning's retirement...are beginning to take on a look of frantic desperation.

[Restored]

Agreed...and if it were ONLY the Patriots creating roadblocks to the Super Bowl for Denver, I could halfway understand one last "win-now" approach to their off-season.

But if the Colts took them out last season...in Denver...it stands to reason that Pittsburgh and Baltimore wouldn't be any easier.

I get that Peyton wants another ring and Denver had a fairly good nucleus to build on when he got there...but the experiment simply has not worked.

And I don't believe it will going forward.

And with each passing season, Elway's moves...some of which, yes, will carry forward past Manning's retirement...are beginning to take on a look of frantic desperation.

 

I don't know if that last part is necessarily true. While it may seem like Elway is just throwing the checkbook around at any big name to try and win one now, the Broncos are actually in prime position to have a solid nucleus for the next 2-4 years (1 with Peyton 2-3 with Brock). Now whether Brock is the answer or not is another case in of it self, but the Broncos are in position to continue to progress forward once Peyton leaves.

 

But let me say this, this is the Broncos last chance to try and win a championship for some years. Once Peyton leaves after this year, it will likely have the same effect on that team that Elway had once he retired.

[lollygagger8]

Oh man, can you ever see Manning doing this? 

 

[pacolts56]

I don't know if that last part is necessarily true. While it may seem like Elway is just throwing the checkbook around at any big name to try and win one now, the Broncos are actually in prime position to have a solid nucleus for the next 2-4 years (1 with Peyton 2-3 with Brock). Now whether Brock is the answer or not is another case in of it self, but the Broncos are in position to continue to progress forward once Peyton leaves.

But let me say this, this is the Broncos last chance to try and win a championship for some years. Once Peyton leaves after this year, it will likely have the same effect on that team that Elway had once he retired.

I agree...and some of Elway's moves will benefit the team going forward.

I just wonder whether the clock hasn't struck midnight for key guys like Ware and Talib as well as Peyton.

And all of it amongst a coaching staff change and several potential free agent losses.

[JerodMayo51]

Oh man, can you ever see Manning doing this?

I don't think there are really and QBS that would attempt that these days.. Elway And Young were a different breed of old school QB's

[lollygagger8]

I don't think there are really and QBS that would attempt that these days.. Elway And Young were a different breed of old school QB's

 

Andrew Luck would. 

[jvan1973]

Andrew Luck would.

he has a few similar runs. But he is much younger than elway was on that play. lol

[Superman]

Andrew Luck would. 

 

In the Super Bowl? Yeah. 

 

Actually, in that game situation, I could see Manning trying that. Problem is his body would separate into a dozen pieces and go flying around the field. 

[amfootball]

In the Super Bowl? Yeah. 

 

Actually, in that game situation, I could see Manning trying that. Problem is his body would separate into a dozen pieces and go flying around the field. 

In the playoff game with the Colts he had a third and 5 and a ton of field in front of him and threw incomplete instead of running. The Denver media was all over him for it.

[jvan1973]

In the playoff game with the Colts he had a third and 5 and a ton of field in front of him and threw incomplete instead of running. The Denver media was all over him for it.

with an injured leg. he wouldn't have made it

[amfootball]

with an injured leg. he wouldn't have made it

lol. There was no one near him and I never saw even a limp from his quad injury.

[jvan1973]

lol. There was no one near him and I never saw even a limp from his quad injury.

I guess you didn't watch the actual play if you think no one was close enough to tackle him within five yards

[amfootball]

I guess you didn't watch the actual play if you think no one was close enough to tackle him within five yards

I did. There wasn't. He could have slid as well. And it is football. Being tackled is part of it hence the Elway video and the question of whether Manning would ever do that.

[jvan1973]

I did. There wasn't. He could have slid as well. And it is football. Being tackled is part of it hence the Elway video and the question of whether Manning would ever do that.

Manning has ran the ball plenty in his career He wouldn't have made it on that play. An injured quad with lbs running back to him. Much better chance to try and complete it

[Superman]

In the playoff game with the Colts he had a third and 5 and a ton of field in front of him and threw incomplete instead of running. The Denver media was all over him for it.

 

Completely different game situation, and he was injured.

[amfootball]

Completely different game situation, and he was injured.

3rd and five in the playoffs? Open field and he threw incomplete.

[Superman]

3rd and five in the playoffs? Open field and he threw incomplete.

 

Completely different game situation, and he was injured. 

 

It's not that hard.

[amfootball]

Completely different game situation, and he was injured. 

 

It's not that hard.

So you don't think a playoff game is a big game? Especially on 3rd and five? And the injury is lame. He never even so much as limped in that game and was moving just fine. He could have easily ran the five yards and slid.

[Superman]

So you don't think a playoff game is a big game? Especially on 3rd and five? And the injury is lame. He never even so much as limped in that game and was moving just fine. He could have easily ran the five yards and slid.

 

You're being ridiculous. Again.

 

It's widely reported that he was hurt. To ignore it is nonsense.

 

And no one said a playoff game isn't a big game. But it's not the Super Bowl, and it's not a tie game in the second half.

[amfootball]

You're being ridiculous. Again.

 

It's widely reported that he was hurt. To ignore it is nonsense.

 

And no one said a playoff game isn't a big game. But it's not the Super Bowl, and it's not a tie game in the second half.

 

Here is the still shot from the BR with the commentary below. Manning had an easier play than Elway in a playoff game and did not take it. Suffice to say that IF Elway was in the same situation as Manning he would have ran. And that really was the question to begin with.

 

 

Many have pointed to the quad injury as reason why Manning didn’t run for the first down on this play, but he had already scrambled five yards out of the pocket, and it wasn’t the first time in the game he had done so. Manning has so much space, he could have probably walked and picked up the first down, and he should have.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2329143-quad-injury-no-excuse-for-poor-play-from-peyton-manning-broncos

[jvan1973]

Here is the still shot from the BR with the commentary below. Manning had an easier play than Elway in a playoff game and did not take it. Suffice to say that IF Elway was in the same situation as Manning he would have ran. And that really was the question to begin with.

Many have pointed to the quad injury as reason why Manning didn’t run for the first down on this play, but he had already scrambled five yards out of the pocket, and it wasn’t the first time in the game he had done so. Manning has so much space, he could have probably walked and picked up the first down, and he should have.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2329143-quad-injury-no-excuse-for-poor-play-from-peyton-manning-broncos

if you look at the other angle, any simpleton can figure out he wouldn't have made out

[amfootball]

if you look at the other angle, any simpleton can figure out he wouldn't have made out

What other angle? There is no one there on the right. He could have walked the five yards like the reporter said ...

[dgambill]

Lets be honest here...even in Peyton's prime he wouldn't have done the Elway play. First he couldn't even run that fast and second he wouldn't have put himself at risk for basically another yard...maybe for the endzone but not a yard. That was a dumb but awesome play by Elway. He really didn't benefit his team in that play if I remember right. I don't believe it allowed them to gain a first down by diving...it was just his reaction. Elway was a tough cat...and I don't think many NFL qbs of today would risk that outside some of the agile qbs like Wilson, Kaepernick, Luck, Cam, and RGIII.

 

I think Peyton could have made that first down running....but he did have a torn quad...if he has to come out of the game after that first down Denver still loses. He made a perfect pass to Sanders but a great defensive play kept him from dragging his second foot. Lets just be honest...nothing about that game was typical of Peyton or the Broncos...they were lifeless and competely out of sync...reminicent of the SB.

[oldunclemark]

Back to the Broncos...DT getting the franchise tag leaves them with about 16 mil to spend..

...and whatever Manning shuffles back to John Elway when his deal re-do is announced this week..

the lack of a cap friendly deal for Demariyus Thomas (one year 12.8 mil..all against the cap, right?) means that Julius Thomas is even more difficult to sign

[amfootball]

Back to the Broncos...DT getting the franchise tag leaves them with about 16 mil to spend..

...and whatever Manning shuffles back to John Elway when his deal re-do is announced this week..

the lack of a cap friendly deal for Demariyus Thomas (one year 12.8 mil..all against the cap, right?) means that Julius Thomas is even more difficult to sign

I really thought they would have done a long term deal with Demariyus.  But I agree that Julius is probably off the table.

 

This Manning re-do is fascinating. I am anxious to see how the contract looks.

[Superman]

Lets be honest here...even in Peyton's prime he wouldn't have done the Elway play. First he couldn't even run that fast and second he wouldn't have put himself at risk for basically another yard...maybe for the endzone but not a yard. That was a dumb but awesome play by Elway. He really didn't benefit his team in that play if I remember right. I don't believe it allowed them to gain a first down by diving...it was just his reaction. Elway was a tough cat...and I don't think many NFL qbs of today would risk that outside some of the agile qbs like Wilson, Kaepernick, Luck, Cam, and RGIII.

 

I think Peyton could have made that first down running....but he did have a torn quad...if he has to come out of the game after that first down Denver still loses. He made a perfect pass to Sanders but a great defensive play kept him from dragging his second foot. Lets just be honest...nothing about that game was typical of Peyton or the Broncos...they were lifeless and competely out of sync...reminicent of the SB.

 

Pretty sure Elway got a first down by diving, and pretty sure it was third down, and pretty sure they scored a TD to take the lead on that drive. 

 

And yeah, I think Manning could have gotten the first on that play. Why he didn't run seems pretty easy to discern, IMO. He was hurt, and he had an opening for a big gain with the throw. He probably should have run it, but like you said, if his quad was as bad as it's been reported, then he could have torn the thing trying to get the first. He was in bad shape. I don't know why anyone would ignore that. (Well, I do, really.)

 

As for Manning, without a lower extremity injury, on third and 8 in the Super Bowl, I can't say that I'd expect him to try to leap over two defenders for a first down. But I won't write it off, either. I didn't expect him to try to throw a crackback block in a regular season game against the Chargers, but he did, and that's the play he hurt his quad on in the first place.

[dgambill]

I really thought they would have done a long term deal with Demariyus.  But I agree that Julius is probably off the table.

 

This Manning re-do is fascinating. I am anxious to see how the contract looks.

I think DT is just a place holder that will turn into a long term deal...whether Peyton is there or not the kid is legit and will be a part of that team's future. I don't think Denver even wants JT back at this point. Things on that front have deteriated well since they turned down that 5yr 40 million deal midseason...and JT's lack of urgency to get back on the field has showed Denver that this guy is not worth that long term investment. I imagine they will shift focus to their OL/DL...sign Owen Daniels and some of their own guys and give it another shot. It isn't like the guys they signed last year are not still there...they still have a playoff caliber team...and will have to simply try to remain healthy for a playoff run and continue to build off that run game. Considering they have to re-sign Miller next offseason...no way JT is coming back and they knew that when he turned down their best offer.

[dgambill]

Pretty sure Elway got a first down by diving, and pretty sure it was third down, and pretty sure they scored a TD to take the lead on that drive. 

 

And yeah, I think Manning could have gotten the first on that play. Why he didn't run seems pretty easy to discern, IMO. He was hurt, and he had an opening for a big gain with the throw. He probably should have run it, but like you said, if his quad was as bad as it's been reported, then he could have torn the thing trying to get the first. He was in bad shape. I don't know why anyone would ignore that. (Well, I do, really.)

 

As for Manning, without a lower extremity injury, on third and 8 in the Super Bowl, I can't say that I'd expect him to try to leap over two defenders for a first down. But I won't write it off, either. I didn't expect him to try to throw a crackback block in a regular season game against the Chargers, but he did, and that's the play he hurt his quad on in the first place.

Yes Manning had done some dumb things....I thought on Elways run he would have had the first without diving...but thats been a long time ago and I've slept many times since then. I get what your saying....just Manning has never looked to run.....EVER...except a couple trick plays basically the guy trusts his arm way more than his legs. I don't think that is a criticism of him...just every qb knows their limitations...Peyton does have limitations obviously lol. I agree.....I think he could have made the first down...and was relieved that they didn't convert that one but it was that moment I truely realized the guy was hurt...and wouldn't even risk making a cut and running. The reports were all over of the quad injury...its not like anyone was making it up....black and blue from front to back of his thigh.

[aaron11]

What other angle? There is no one there on the right. He could have walked the five yards like the reporter said ...

im not so sure he would have made it by running.  the defense actually has a decent angle on him, it could have been very close and he would risk taking a big hit.

 

draw another line from any of the 3 defenders in the middle of the play to the end of peytons yellow line in the bottom right corner.  the defenders lines are actually shorter amusing they take a good angle.  there might be some distortion here but its not much.  they all had about the same distance to run

[Fx Stryker]

This Manning re-do is fascinating. I am anxious to see how the contract looks.

 

For what reason?

[Happy2BeHere]

For what reason?

 

It's fascinating to me because I can then take this new deal that manning gets and go marching right into my bosses office and demand a similar type contract. I'll be immediately laughed at and then fired (of course that could happen the other way around). But if I go to the unemployment office I'll demand they structure my contract like Mannings. In which case they'll probably do it because the government spends way more than that on useless spending (and that kind of money on me is DEFINITELY useless spending) ... but hey a man's gotta dream right ?

[amfootball]

For what reason?

To see how it is structured. I can't imagine they will tack on years given he will be 39 but you never know. Or what if he really does take a cut down to $10 mil? That would be pretty cool. Then I want to see what Elway does with the money in FA/draft. I think Denver's off-season is by far the most intriguing because they have shaken everything up ...

[jvan1973]

To see how it is structured. I can't imagine they will tack on years given he will be 39 but you never know. Or what if he really does take a cut down to $10 mil? That would be pretty cool. Then I want to see what Elway does with the money in FA/draft. I think Denver's off-season is by far the most intriguing because they have shaken everything up ...

They hired new coaches. not really shaken everything up

[amfootball]

They hired new coaches. not really shaken everything up

New coaches and as a result a new approach to both offense (more run focused) and defense (3-4). So that will mean new/different players via FA/draft to build the team.

[chad72]

If they are clearing up cap space to the extent of (say) $30 mil., it could mean this, IMO:

 

1. Leave open the possibility of Peyton returning without a huge re-structure (say his cap number is around $20 mil., maybe they are fine with a $15 mil. hit with a small cap relief from re-structure)
2. Re-sign Demaryius Thomas to at least a $10-12 mil. per year contract for certain
3. Re-sign Orlando Franklin
4. If Terrance Knighton leaves, sign another NT in the market like a Dan Williams from the Arizona Cardinals???
5. Heck, we have free agents like Darnell Dockett and Chris Canty who add depth to the DL, maybe sign one of them??? Or sign Devin McCourty to upgrade their safety position???

 

A combination of several of the above can be reasons for clearing the cap space???

 

Quoting myself   on the bolded part about the small cap relief from Peyton. Let us see what happens with the rest of the moves .

[Fx Stryker]

New coaches and as a result a new approach to both offense (more run focused) and defense (3-4). So that will mean new/different players via FA/draft to build the team.

Oh wow, you were in on the meetings? I mean how else would you know their plans. Unless you don't...

[oldunclemark]

New coaches and as a result a new approach to both offense (more run focused) and defense (3-4). So that will mean new/different players via FA/draft to build the team.

Not really..the vast majority of the starters are under contract....

..watch the offensive line (including TE) , though..could be more than one pickup there..

....I cant see Peyton handing off 50 times a game...you don't sign your WR for 12 mil to switch to a running game...

[amfootball]

Not really..the vast majority of the starters are under contract....

..watch the offensive line (including TE) , though..could be more than one pickup there..

....I cant see Peyton handing off 50 times a game...you don't sign your WR for 12 mil to switch to a running game...

Except that Elway said he is going to switch to a more run focused offense and Philips runs a 3-4.

[jvan1973]

Except that Elway said he is going to switch to a more run focused offense and Philips runs a 3-4.

no he hasn't said that. You assumed that

[amfootball]

no he hasn't said that. You assumed that

And Elway thinks he can play well. Elway says he hired Gary Kubiak to be the Broncos’ head coach in large part because he thinks Kubiak runs just the kind of offense that will be helpful to the aging Manning.

 

Broncos general manager John Elway adapted to a run-focused offense late in his playing career, and won back-to-back Super Bowls.

 

"Having played for (coach) Mike Shanahan at the time with this offense, I do believe it's a very helpful offense. Peyton can fit in this offense very easily. It's a lot more dependent on balance," Elway said recently. "So, therefore, Peyton's not going to have to throw the ball 50, 55 times. I think for an older quarterback it's a perfect system to be in. It's really a great system for any quarterback, but I think it's even more helpful the older you get."

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/05/manning-passes-physical-elway-says-an-older-qb-can-thrive-in-denver/related/