Patriots being investigated for Deflating footballs.....(Mega Merge)

[ruksak]

Well when you blasted Maestro you didn't know that am was a stay at home mom you thought she was a HE. So that excuse doesn't work try again.

I have a pet peeve when people question why posters post when they post, or as often as they post, or what team they root for. To do so is not only off topic and rude, but quite judgemental and petty. I hope this clears it up for you. 

[Dustin]

just curious....if Goodell comes down lightly on this and gives the Pats a slap on the wrist (if there's a conviction). Given the rumored anger and resentment from the other owners coming from the Senior Bowl towards the Pats and the perceived double standard.

 

Could Goodell lose his job?

 

I mean he's beholden to all 32 owners, not just a couple.

 

Goodell does what the owners tell him to do. His ruling is theirs. 

[OffensivelyPC]

I said it was in the game manual, which has already been referenced by amfootball in post 162.

I will repost it to save you thumbing back through the thread

The NFL's game operations manual states: "Once the balls have left the locker room, no one, including players, equipment managers, ball boys, and coaches, is allowed to alter the footballs in any way. If any individual alters the footballs, or if a non-approved ball is used in the game, the person responsible and, if appropriate, the head coach or other club personnel will be subject to discipline, including but not limited to, a fine of $25,000."

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12193345/nfl-investigating-whether-new-england-patriots-deflated-footballs-indianapolis-colts

and like I said, what the Pats did was clearly an alteration. What min. And Car. Did was not a clear alteration.

[bababooey]

Goodell does what the owners tell him to do. His ruling is theirs. 

The owners didn't care as much about the Ray Rice situation bc he still makes them tons of money, but I have a feeling the other 31 owners aren't as cool about this as they were w Rice. Although I hope the investigation isn't performed by the same people who performed that one.

[Susie Q]

I have a pet peeve when people question why posters post when they post, or as often as they post, or what team they root for. To do so is not only off topic and rude, but quite judgemental and petty. I hope this clears it up for you. 

Yes it does clear things up for me and one of them is I wouldn't want you having my back because you change your mind to often. Nuff said on this subject. Done......

[Gramz]

I just read the following quote by a friend on another site:   

 

So, am I the only one that is making the assumption that if Belichek and the *s will cheat in the championship game that they've probably been cheating all season long and in NO WAY deserve to play in the superbore game? There's no deterrent in a fine or loss of draft picks if they still get to play!!! Cancel the game and give Seattle the trophy. I'm so tired of cheaters winning and getting away with it. There's zero tolerance for repeated drug abuse but repeated cheating gets slapped hands? Then again... no one's surprised because this IS the league that allows murderers and abusers to play after 2 game suspensions. (unless the fans rise up in repulsion) I bet if the advertising companies refused to put their ads on in the game, something would get done... I mean, let's face it... this has the possibility to be the worse viewed superbore game of all time due to the low impact NE brings, to begin with, and now inflategate? People are talking of boycotting the game... I think it's a great idea. Hit 'em where it hurts.

[Dustin]

Press conference is about to start.

[Dustin]

Lol at the backdrop saying #flexball

[amfootball]

Schefty just reported that league officials say Bill is denying any knowledge of this which makes sense as it would be Tom and the equipment manager. Given this, Schefty says nothing is likely to happen.

[ruksak]

Yes it does clear things up for me and one of them is I wouldn't want you having my back because you change your mind to often. Nuff said on this subject. Done......

Well....I'm very disappointed to hear that coming from you. I'm very currfuzzled about what you mean when you say I changed my mind or "flip flopped"? Perhaps there's some confusion here on your part? Is it because I'm debating with the same person I defended for having a right to be here or.....? I'd really like some clarification on this. It saddens me to hear you say this. 

[bababooey]

Schefty just reported that league officials say Bill is denying any knowledge of this which makes sense as it would be Tom and the equipment manager. Given this, Schefty says nothing is likely to happen.

"Ignorance is not an excuse" at least not for repeat offenders.

[ruksak]

Schefty just reported that league officials say Bill is denying any knowledge of this which makes sense as it would be Tom and the equipment manager. Given this, Schefty says nothing is likely to happen.

Part of me wants to hear him admit some wrong doing so we can get by this and enjoy the Super Bowl. I feel like a denial only further exacerbates this issue, as guilt to some extent seems apparent to me, with the limited info we have, that is. 

[amfootball]

Part of me wants to hear him admit some wrong doing so we can get by this and enjoy the Super Bowl. I feel like a denial only further exacerbates this issue, as guilt to some extent seems apparent to me, with the limited info we have, that is. 

I have not found a link on Schefty. It was played on the radio. Stay tuned ... this makes sense though that Bill would not know. But this does not absolve Brady or equipment manager ....

[bababooey]

I have not found a link on Schefty. It was played on the radio. Stay tuned ... this makes sense though that Bill would not know. But this does not absolve Brady or equipment manager ....

No equipment manager or ball boy would be dumb enough to go rogue to improve Brady's chances of gripping the football. Later Brady.

[amfootball]

No equipment manager or ball boy would be dumb enough to go rogue to improve Brady's chances of gripping the football. Later Brady.

What gives me pause here is that all 12 balls were deflated. Brady may have thought the balls were inflated to the max and told ball boy to let air out. What I am sure of is there is no way this was intentional cheating. But more Brady getting the balls the way he likes.

[jvan1973]

Schefty just reported that league officials say Bill is denying any knowledge of this which makes sense as it would be Tom and the equipment manager. Given this, Schefty says nothing is likely to happen.

the head coach is responsible for his players and staff. Isn't that what they told Sean Payton?

[bababooey]

What gives me pause here is that all 12 balls were deflated. Brady may have thought the balls were inflated to the max and told ball boy to let air out. What I am sure of is there is no way this was intentional cheating. But more Brady getting the balls the way he likes.

Incorrect, 11 of 12 balls were underinflated. Even so, you can't possibly think that a guy who touches a football every day for the past 15 years (with NFL balls) doesn't know the difference between one that is so altered that 2 pounds per square inch of less pressure felt ok to use? He got it the way he likes, unfortunately the way he likes is illegal.

[Gramz]

I know nothing, I knew nothing,   just what I expected him to say.

[jvan1973]

What gives me pause here is that all 12 balls were deflated. Brady may have thought the balls were inflated to the max and told ball boy to let air out. What I am sure of is there is no way this was intentional cheating. But more Brady getting the balls the way he likes.

right, all but one of the balls was exactly 2 psi below minimum. Total accident and yet another mis interpretation of multiple rules

[Hoosier]

I know nothing, I knew nothing,   just what I expected him to say.

40 years in the league and he just learned over the past few days how the process works with the team's footballs prior to a game.

 

[Narcosys]

For me the word "any" is all inclusive. Where do you think Dean B. got his authority to say it was wrong? It did not come from thin air.

The reason why the word any was used was to prevent the teams from touching, fixing or anything else to the ball.

Sit back and think logically for a moment what is the intent of the rule and the game manual, it is to set a ball leaving the locker room for each team and thereafter have each team to be on an equal playing field throughout the entire game. Which by the way is the very premise of this whole firestorm. ;)

If you allow someone to alter the ball by changing the pressure, dry it with a hair dryer, leave in a humidified/dehumidified heated/cooling box one team can maintain the ball at say 70 degrees and dry while the other has to deal with a ball as it deteriorates in given bad conditions.

If one wants to keep an even playing field the only way to do this is the prevent any altering by the teams. And to achieve this is the prohibit any form of altering (i.e do not touch it). Otherwise you have teams with several devices on the sidelines.

The only exception you will see is a towel to remove excess water. Which is done mostly my the refs but on occasion by the ball boys. But this is done for both sides and also by the refs. And both teams are afforded the same treatment so it maintains needed equality between the teams with respect to the ball. The refs do not however torch the ball to heat it up.

Your perception of the word any doesn't change the definition of the word alter. Warming then is not changing them. If it was wrong then why weren't they punished?

We know people don't think logically when they want to interpret rules for an advantage. By the technical wording it was not altering. Was our dishonest? Sure. But it was not altering. Doesn't matter how you want to perceive it. And you van put them under a heat lamp without directly touching them, just put the whole bag under it. You can argue that warming is not altering if they were keeping them at the same temperature as when they were inflated. If we take your interpretation of it, taking it outside to the cold is considered illegal too because you are physically pouring then someplace that will cause an effect different than its original environment. I'm not saying it's right, just that you can argue the point of the wording.

[Gramz]

I don't have any explanation.....  I've told you everything I know....  and I know Nothing.

 

infamous words from BB.   ;)

[Hoosier]

I don't have any explanation.....  I've told you everything I know....  and I know Nothing.

 

[ruksak]

I'm speechless..........

[bababooey]

"FIF!"

[ruksak]

Brady is going down for this. That's my first impression. Other than that, I cannot find the words to express what I just heard.

[crazycolt1]

Goodell does what the owners tell him to do. His ruling is theirs. 

That's what way too many don't seem to grasp. They whine and cry about Goodell like he was in charge. Goodell is only the mouthpiece for the owners. He is a well paid employee to take all the heat the owners don't want to deal with. You can count on every move or comment made by Goodell comes directly from the owners.

[NFLfan]

Totally conflicting rumors of what 'everyone' is saying at the senior bowl. This is why I don't trust unnamed 'sources'.

I think they did earn the wins but I also think a piece of you should be dead inside knowing that the team you root for not only boasts about knowing the rules and knowing how to exploit them......but crosses the line and sneakily violates them. To me, it's a 'win at any cost' attitude that cheapens the game. If you are a fan of the game, you cannot help but be dismayed by this.

You cannot boast about knowing how to exploit the rules to your advantage and when you are found violating the rules......dismiss it. Well you can but, to me it is hypocritical. You either know you are smart staying inside the rules or you are arrogant and choosing how you will deal with the rules as you see fit. There is a difference.

^^^This. Brady laughing it off is enough to enrage the rest of the NFL.

There sure are a lot of rumors coming out of the senior bowl.

-----------

this

https://twitter.com/AmericasPregame/status/558038864493690880

Resonates with me as true. I suspect that the rest of the league is sick of the Patriots getting away with skirting the rules. I suspect that that's the reason that although the league knew about this and was investigating this.......the league wasn't the one that released this information.......an Indy reporter did.

I'm interested to see how this plays out. I don't blame Pat fans for still loving their team but, the more you deflect this, the more you seem very similar to your organization. Sorry, I like a lot of you guys but, that's my explanation as to why people are glad and even morbidly gleeful about a seemingly 'meaningless' violation.

I agree with everything you wrote here.

Some have dismissed this rules violation by saying that the Pats would have won anyway. Like the Chargers fan, I disagree with this reasoning. Regardless of the outcome, cheating is cheating and as many have said here, it affects the integrity of the game. It makes many wonder how much cheating has been going on. Those who break the rules seem to always be ahead of those enforcing the rules. By the time they are caught, the cheaters have already made their big bucks (as in PED users) or have already won the games/match/race/etc (Pats, Lance Armstrong, Marion Jones, etc). Just as there will always be those who will defend Lance Armstrong, there will be Pats fans and other football fans who will dismiss this and say the Pats would have won anyway.

[amfootball]

Bill basically blamed Brady. But in fairness, this is not his domain. Brady is up tomorrow at 11:30. There is much going on here ...

[bababooey]

Brady's cooked, too bad we have to wait til tomorrow

[amfootball]

Master plan I think about the Pats. Better for Brady to take fall than Bill ...

[Gramz]

Yep.  Bill just blamed Brady....  Clear and Simple.

[Hoosier]

Bill basically blamed Brady. But in fairness, this is not his domain. Brady is up tomorrow at 11:30. There is much going on here ...

 

I can totally accept that the HC doesn't get involved in the routine handling of the game balls, but for Bill to claim that he just learned over the past few days how the process works....

 

C'mon!

[amfootball]

Brady moved up to 4:00 today ...

[JerodMayo51]

Ask him if the weather would deflate 11-12 of the NE balls to exactly 2 LBS under minimum pressure. Not 3 at 1.5 and 2 at 1.75 etc etc .. 11 at 2 lbs under. BTW the 12th one was also under .. just not that exact 2 lbs. Then ask why the other teams 12 balls would be in compliance.

Thanks for the brilliant post though...

Free lesson in thermodenamics from a conversation I was having with a good friend who is a biochemical engineer (who is NOT a football or sports fan)

If the balls were filled with warm air at room temp (between 70-80 degrees), they could be at 12.5 psi 2.5 hours before game time (lowest legal psi limit), by the start of kickoff in 50 degree weather they could lose over a full psi of pressure, then when you add in the rain it can add additional weight to the football and also effect the PSI.

That's just the 3 hours from inspection to kick off, then the ball obviously can become more deflated from the rigors of an NFL football game, being landed on by multiple 300lb men, spiked, etc..

This is not some conspiracy, just the laws of thermodynamics can explain this.. if the Colts filled their balls to 13.5 psi (max legal limit) they would lose roughly the same PSI but would still be within regulation.

We know zero details of the investigation, and I find it hard to believe that 11 balls were discovered to be "deflated" since there were several tossed to fans in the crowd

I've also heard that that the NFL doesnt support Mortensens claim of the 11 balls, I also heard that there are 2 teams that are LIVID with the Colts for bringing this up and drawing attention to a practice that is used throughout the league by every starting QB.. Some of which prepare their balls for MONTHS to be to their liking for game day.

This could just as easily backfire on the Colts.. Manning with the support of Brady got the league to allow the use of their own game day balls and it's generally understood that each team has their own, you make your balls the way you like them and we'll make ours the way we like them... its all personal preference, like Rodgers likes to overinflate his balls for a tighter spiral, and the physics of the extra psi actually allow the ball to travel at a higher velocity when he does that.

At the end of the day, the league has to prove that the Pats intentionally tampered with the balls.

[Nadine]

I have not found a link on Schefty. It was played on the radio. Stay tuned ... this makes sense though that Bill would not know. But this does not absolve Brady or equipment manager ....

It doesn't make sense to me at all.

[Dustin]

https://twitter.com/Schultz1260/status/558276338222505984

[amfootball]

Yep.  Bill just blamed Brady....  Clear and Simple.

This IS Brady. 100 percent. Every QB interviewed has said they do the game balls not the HC or staff.

[bababooey]

Brady addressing media today at 4 pm.

[JerodMayo51]

there was an obvious advantage so by definition it is cheating...

Obvious advantage? Mythbusters and Sports Science proved that there is arguably a DISASVANTAGE, because the ball would travel 15 yards 0.003 seconds slower through the air.. which for an NFL corner, that would equate to 1 more inch of ground covered. . In a game that they always say is "a game of inches"

Overinflating the ball is more advantageous because it allows more velocity and tighter spirals, which are easier to catch.