Patriots being investigated for Deflating footballs.....(Mega Merge)

[PeterBowman]

could this also explain why Brady is viewed as such a good bad weather qb?

[amfootball]

Yes we will see. I would like to hear answers from both Bill and Tom too, but I don't expect it. It has to be frustrating for most Pats fans to keep hearing about things like this.

Tom especially.

[ElMaestro]

Only the balls that the Patriots were using on offense were underinflated.  It doesn't effect the flight of the thrown ball but greatly enhances the ability to grip the ball.  This makes it easier to throw, catch and hold onto in wet an cold conditions.  Therefore it is and advantage and is cheating.  Quote from ESPN "11 of the 12 Patriot balls were found to be underinflated"  not the balls the Colts were using.  If Jackson hadn't intercepted Brady in the 2nd quarter they probably would have gotten away with it.  He gave the intercepted ball to one of the Colt's equipment manager who felt it was underinflated and reported it to Grigson and Pagano.

This.  Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo many people simply don't understand how the game balls work for both teams. 

[corgi]

Right.

I know, that's why I said it. If your boyfriend/girlfriend cheats on you is that okay?

[pacolts56]

If this is proven true, and I think the Patriots should get full due process, it is very disturbing. Maybe an apologist could say it didn't make a difference in the Colts game, but how about the Ravens game ? If Flacco was throwing a correctly inflated football, and Brady a deflated one, it calls into question the integrity of the game . If this is proven true after the spygate saga, it would reflect very poorly on the Patriots organization. We don't know about the Ravens game, but is it too much of a stretch if the Colts game reports are found true ?

A very legitimate point considering the magnitude of their past transgressions.

As I said earlier...if this was knowingly conducted against a Colts team they'd beaten three times going in...then how far do we have to stretch our imaginations that they would do the same against the Ravens...who've clobbered them on their own field?

At this point absolutely NO revelation would surprise me.

[jvan1973]

I think it will be Susie IF they can prove tampering.

If the balls were inspected pre game and they were in spec, then failed at half time. The patriots will have to explain the reasons why. All of the colts balls were in spec

[corgi]

Tom especially.

He must be distraught. Poor guy, he must feel like a guy who gets arrested for doing something illegal.

[PrincetonTiger]

No matter what happens the reputations of BB, TB, and the Pats have been tarnished and every accomplishment they have had will be questioned.

It could cost BB, and TB first ballot invites to Canton ala Mark McGwire

[dynasty13]

No matter what happens the reputations of BB, TB, and the Pats have been tarnished and every accomplishment they have had will be questioned.

It could cost BB, and TB first ballot invites to Canton ala Mark McGwire

 

Wont happen.

[ElMaestro]

If the balls were inspected pre game and they were in spec, then failed at half time. The patriots will have to explain the reasons why. All of the colts balls were in spec

Agreed.  If the investigation proves tampering, it will be a low level equipment kid or equipment manager that will get the ax.  

 

Although, deep down, I believe the Pats were practicing with these under inflated balls all week long once the forecast came out with the rain, wind and blustery conditions.  

 

Does anyone really think the NFL will do a thorough investigation though?  And release everything?  I don't.  Cash is king, and this hurts the cash flow.  

[BlacknGold77]

No matter what happens the reputations of BB, TB, and the Pats have been tarnished and every accomplishment they have had will be questioned.

It could cost BB, and TB first ballot invites to Canton ala Mark McGwire

 

, and the hate has officially gone full ret@rd

[amfootball]

I know, that's why I said it. If your boyfriend/girlfriend cheats on you is that okay?

huh?

[BlacknGold77]

If the balls were inspected pre game and they were in spec, then failed at half time. The patriots will have to explain the reasons why. All of the colts balls were in spec

 

there's no confirmed report of any results regarding the Colts balls.

[HoggHannah]

It is not the result of cheating that is important here, but rather the intent. 

 

When a competitor cheats with the intent of gaining an advantage, it doesn't matter if he wins or losses by a wide margin, the result is a moot point. It's the intent which brings a stinging refrain. When a competitor intends to cheat, nothing he gains in the process should be acknowledged as legitimate. 

 

There is a lot of assumption on here about intent, but no actual proof.  Balls were underinflated, which right now doesn't mean much.

[GoPats]

I will also say that while there won't be an asterisk next to your championships to a lot of people they are gong to be viewed differently because like I said before its very hard to believe that the only two times they cheated they just happened to get caught. The league isn't going to remove those titles or put an asterisk by them but a lot of people are going to view the Pats as having cheated to win them.

 

I certainly respect and understand your opinion on that. Public perception doesn't always change the history books but I definitely get what you're saying. 

 

Already getting the "everybody did it!" excuse from Deflaitriot fans. 

 

D-man I have to admit, that's good.  ;)

[bababooey]

I hear you but spygate was 7 years ago and ball inflation is not anywhere in the same ball park in terms of an offense. I do think they get fined, probably heavily but not sure much is warranted beyond that. They have not broken any rules since 2007 and this one is not major according to the NFLs own rule book. I guess we will see. I agree it is a poor look again and no Pats fan is happy about it. I am quite angry actually and want answers from Bill and Brady but we do need the rest of the investigation to come out. It is very difficult to prove tampering.

THAT WE KNOW ABOUT.

[Nadine]

He must be distraught. Poor guy, he must feel like a guy who gets arrested for doing something illegal.

I heard that the NFL was distraught.

I'm having a hard time imagining any of these people as distraught

just a funny word to use because to me it implies that they are so deeply upset that they cannot function.

not necessarily related to your post except that you used the word that's been seeming funny to me today

[amfootball]

If the balls were inspected pre game and they were in spec, then failed at half time. The patriots will have to explain the reasons why. All of the colts balls were in spec

Yeah that is a big question. The inspection. If it did happen then my guess is they will blame the equipment manager and then fire him.

[Narcosys]

Yah thanks for the kind words. I tried to get the thread closed but it did not work

I will be interested to see the NFL final findings and whether or not there are things that are added to qualify what we know now from the reports coming out of the NFL. Is the first time the Pats have done this, have they been warned before, are there other teams complaints in regards to the pats, how much does the change in temperature from the test area to the pitch effect the pressure, is this done by other teams and team accept the NFL rule as a guide line, and so on. Too many times we get post decision fans complaining things are not done right, I hope this is not the case with this decision.

As stated before it would have to be ridiculously cold for the temperature to be an effect. Have to see what the colts balls were like as well to get a more damning or vindicating idea.

Edit: guess mike and Mike are reporting colts balls were fine.

[indy1888]

Just heard Mort on ESPN say the officials absolutely did check the balls before that game.  So there goes the idea that they didn't do there job.

 

Also the Colts notified the league in November that they felt those balls in the first matchup were abnormal as well.

[amfootball]

THAT WE KNOW ABOUT.

That would be true of any team.

[ElMaestro]

there's no confirmed report of any results regarding the Colts balls.

Mike and Mike this morning quoted a "league source" when I was listening.  The league source said the Colts balls came back within specifications.  

[Gramz]

People don't hate cheaters just cheaters that win a lot. That is what is at play here. No one would care if this was the Jags ...

Ridiculous comment.

 

I can only speak for myself but Liars and Cheaters are at the top of my list of the most disliked, and least tolerated (by me) behavior.

 

When my kids were very little I said to them  "you will get into less trouble with me, if you are just upfront and honest"   And I always stuck by those words,  no matter what.     There is nothing I despise more than to be lied to.  Cheating is right there with lying.

[HoggHannah]

Justifying it as a "lesser cheat", is justifying the situation. And yes people are reacting because a multiple offender of cheating, is accused of cheating. Find me anywhere, that isn't the case. It's not a Pats thing. It's a people hate cheaters thing.

 

Where is the Rodgers outcry then?

 

It is absolutely 100% because of the Pats success and that they were caught 8 years ago... If the fricken Jets were caught, no one blink twice.  Rodgers admitted on the air to overinflating the balls to get a better grip, where is the outrage?  Carolina was caught heating balls, AGAINST THE RULES!  Show me the 50 page thread dedicated to that?

 

You guys are fooling yourselves over the "no one likes cheaters" line.  We all know it's because it happened to the Pats. 

[bababooey]

That would be true of any team.

omg bro look at yourself just be happy youre in the superbowl and have three titles already, we are allowed to say what we want this is colts.com if you dont like it get out

Edited January 21, 2015 by Nadine
personal shot

[pacolts56]

Again, I'm not justifying anything...and it sounds like most responding are, in fact, agreeing with my assessment that 'because its the Patriots, people are angry'.

That isn't me defending the action, I'm simply giving my opinion on the responses to it.

As was asked on one of the news programs...is this any different than say, pine tar on a pitchers hand? A hockey stick with a little extra bend? All are against the rules and Im not saying whether or not is the same...but I believe the vitriolic response to THIS one is 100% attributed to the team that is under question...and not the action itself.

That's all I was asking, I was just curious.

For the record... I'd be equally disgusted if it were the Colts...maybe even more!

I know I'm not the oldest person on the Forum....but I've been a fan for 52 years.

And if this $#@&% league gets a whole lot more headlines for all the wrong reasons like it has these past 12 months, sooner or later it'll stop being a source of interest and enjoyment for me.

And I know they're not choir boys off the field....but if I can't even trust what I'm paying money to watch on TV or at the game... then I won't watch it any longer.

THAT is what Roger Goodell, above all else, is charged and well paid to protect.

[amfootball]

Ridiculous comment.

 

I can only speak for myself but Liars and Cheaters are at the top of my list of the most disliked, and least tolerated (by me) behavior.

 

When my kids were very little I said to them  "you will get into less trouble with me, if you are just upfront and honest"   And I always stuck by those words,  no matter what.     There is nothing I despise more than to be lied to.  Cheating is right there with lying.

I was talking about the public at large Gramz not you personally. The public at large would view this as a non story if it was a perennial loser like the Jags but because it is the most winning franchise of the past 15 years you get the crazy, over the top reactions.

[Valpo2004]

So you're admitting that it wouldnt be a big deal if it was another team....but because it is the Patriots, the response is different?

 

Because they have cheated before AND it was in a huge game.  

 

He said it would have been different if it was Week 17 Titans vs. the Jags. . . That's a meaningless game. . . that game isn't deciding who goes to the SB.

 

Sure Pats probably beat Colts with or without under-inflated balls.  But what about the Ravens, a game decided by 1 score.  1 catch can make the difference in this game.  

 

And how long has BB been doing this?  And what other rules could be he breaking?  Pats have been a winning team for a long time, but if BB's been cheating this entire time and just now got caught, the whole "Pats Dynasty" is a complete sham.  Because you just don't know how many games, especially close games they might have lost had they been following the same rules the other teams where.

[Gramz]

I was talking about the public at large Gramz not you personally. The public at large would view this as a non story if it was a perennial loser like the Jags but because it is the most winning franchise of the past 15 years you get the crazy, over the top reactions.

I know you weren't talking about Me.   I still say it was a ridiculous comment.    It is ridiculous to think the majority of people would condone cheating,  and winning at all costs.      If that is the case,  I'm proud to be in the minority.

 

 

I might add,  I disagree that it would be a "non-story" if it were anyone else.   Maybe not AS BIG of a story, given the history here,  but it certainly would not be a "non-story".

[House]

Where is the Rodgers outcry then?

It is absolutely 100% because of the Pats success and that they were caught 8 years ago... If the fricken Jets were caught, no one blink twice. Rodgers admitted on the air to overinflating the balls to get a better grip, where is the outrage? Carolina was caught heating balls, AGAINST THE RULES! Show me the 50 page thread dedicated to that?

You guys are fooling yourselves over the "no one likes cheaters" line. We all know it's because it happened to the Pats.

Defensive, the world is out to get me, whiny, Pats fans are without a doubt the best Pats fans.

Don't worry buddy. Good Ol Roger will find a way to get you out of this mess. He's good for it.

Also people hate cheaters. But they especially hate multiple offense cheaters. Food for thought.

[PrincetonTiger]

I agree with Pacolts56 and would be enraged if the Colts did this

[Valpo2004]

I was talking about the public at large Gramz not you personally. The public at large would view this as a non story if it was a perennial loser like the Jags but because it is the most winning franchise of the past 15 years you get the crazy, over the top reactions.

 

Of course that's the case. . . you cheated and lost . . . you still lost.  It's not like you can say the cheating changed much.  Certainly isn't changing who's the SB champion.

 

But it's like with Lance Armstrong, when you win and you've cheated it changes everything.  

 

How many teams could have been screwed out of the SB because the Pats where cheating?  

[amfootball]

I know you weren't talking about Me.   I still say it was a ridiculous comment.    It is ridiculous to think the majority of people would condone cheating,  and winning at all costs.      If that is the case,  I'm proud to be in the minority.

Who said anything about condoning? I said they hate cheaters who win more than ones that don't.

[Narcosys]

Here's another article that the league was aware of the concerns going into the AFC title game.  Now the league can be seen as negligent in its duties.  Maybe they were setting up the Patriots to see if they would do it and then catch them rather than preventing the situation entirely.  http://espn.go.com/boston/story/_/id/12202450/nfl-says-new-england-patriots-had-inflated-footballs-afc-championship-game

 

If they knew about it going into the AFC Championship then they had to have been aware of it going into the Divisional game with the Ravens as well since it was brought up earlier in the season. 

 

A Brady quote that could be used against him.

"When Gronk scores ... he spikes the ball and he deflates the ball. I love that, because I like the deflated ball," Brady said then of tight end Rob Gronkowski. "But I feel bad for that football, because he puts everything he can into those spikes."

 

"Patriots wide receiver Julian Edelman said the footballs didn't feel different than usual". -  Ya of course he would say that, he was catching everything his way.  Wouldnt want to discount his abilities.

[jvan1973]

Yeah that is a big question. The inspection. If it did happen then my guess is they will blame the equipment manager and then fire him.

yeah, im sure that kid did it on his own without being instructed to. Firing him could be really bad for the pats when he goes to TMZ after he is fired

[amfootball]

Of course that's the case. . . you cheated and lost . . . you still lost.  It's not like you can say the cheating changed much.  Certainly isn't changing who's the SB champion.

 

But it's like with Lance Armstrong, when you win and you've cheated it changes everything.  

 

How many teams could have been screwed out of the SB because the Pats where cheating?  

So you are comparing a rampant steroid user/abuser with deflated footballs?

[GoPats]

I was talking about the public at large Gramz not you personally. The public at large would view this as a non story if it was a perennial loser like the Jags but because it is the most winning franchise of the past 15 years you get the crazy, over the top reactions.

 

A couple of weeks ago there was a story about the league investigating the possibility that text messages were being sent to the Browns' sideline during games, which is against the rules. No one cared. I bet a lot of people here didn't even know about it. So in that regard, you're correct. 

 

The reason this has exploded, though, is because of the Patriots' past transgressions, more so than their sustained success. And that's why as a fan I'm pretty angry this morning with BB. 

[Valpo2004]

Where is the Rodgers outcry then?

 

It is absolutely 100% because of the Pats success and that they were caught 8 years ago... If the fricken Jets were caught, no one blink twice.  Rodgers admitted on the air to overinflating the balls to get a better grip, where is the outrage?  Carolina was caught heating balls, AGAINST THE RULES!  Show me the 50 page thread dedicated to that?

 

You guys are fooling yourselves over the "no one likes cheaters" line.  We all know it's because it happened to the Pats. 

 

Rodgers admitted to overinflating the balls BEFORE the refs inspected them.  This happened after the refs inspected them.  

 

What Rodgers did is about the same as hurrying to the line to snap the ball before they can call for a replay.  While a little underhanded, it's not the same thing.

 

And that's assuming that what Phill Simms told is absolutely correct since I don't think there is a recording of Rodgers saying this, just a 2nd hand account by Phil Simms.

[jvan1973]

there's no confirmed report of any results regarding the Colts balls.

nothing is confirmed from the league about any of it. Butthe same people reporting about the pats balls said all the colts balls were in spec at halftime

[HoggHannah]

Because they have cheated before AND it was in a huge game.  

 

He said it would have been different if it was Week 17 Titans vs. the Jags. . . That's a meaningless game. . . that game isn't deciding who goes to the SB.

 

 

 

No but wait, people on here have said they hate cheaters no matter what?  Now it sounds like you hate some cheaters, but let others slide because "the games don't matter as much".

 

If that isn't some sort of wacky double standard than I don't know what is.