Cherilus Playing Through Some Things..

[Coffeedrinker]

He had an alternative treatment on his knee that isn't FDA approved so he didn't have to go through surgery and the longer recovery process.  The long term affects of Regenokine being unknown, why is it that you find it to be so unbelievable?

I don't find it unbelievable, in that I don't think it's impossible, I just don't know if I believe that is what is affecting his play.

 

Sorry I'm not a Grigsonite like so many people on this forum but I don't believe every word out of his mouth like it's the gospel.

[Gavin]

Cap savings isn't the only issue. Cash is a major issue as well, not that the team doesn't have it, but the question is whether you want to pay it. I'd rather move on from a player that isn't worth the money, even if I'm not getting cap savings right away. The cap savings will come, because that cash that I'm not paying will eventually be back on my cap.

 

I haven't yet reached the point where I think Cherilus should be released after this season, but lack of net cap savings in 2015 isn't going to influence my opinion.

Im close to the point where I want a new RT, He lacks the nastiness and technique to run block well in my opinion and the times he gets beat around the corner leaving Luck to get nailed for a sack he just looks down at him and moves onto the next play, doesn't offer to help him up

[Superman]

I don't find it unbelievable, in that I don't think it's impossible, I just don't know if I believe that is what is affecting his play.

 

Sorry I'm not a Grigsonite like so many people on this forum but I don't believe every word out of his mouth like it's the gospel.

 

Pffffft.

 

Grigson says Cherilus is playing through injury. You said you don't believe it. That's a long way from being a "Grigsonite." That's basically calling him a liar.

 

And it's ironic in this case, because Cherilus has a documented injury history. There's nothing strange about the idea that he'd be playing through injury at this point. And if he is, there's no reason to believe his play wouldn't be affected. It's just a strange thing to question, and there's really no basis for questioning it. At least, I can't think of any basis, and you haven't tried to present any basis, other than you're not a Grigsonite, whatever that means.

[Superman]

Im close to the point where I want a new RT, He lacks the nastiness and technique to run block well in my opinion and the times he gets beat around the corner leaving Luck to get nailed for a sack he just looks down at him and moves onto the next play, doesn't offer to help him up

 

If that doesn't change by the end of the year, I'd be fine with moving on. I know we don't save a lot of cap space in 2015, but the savings moving forward are worth it. 

[OffensivelyPC]

I don't find it unbelievable, in that I don't think it's impossible, I just don't know if I believe that is what is affecting his play.

 

Sorry I'm not a Grigsonite like so many people on this forum but I don't believe every word out of his mouth like it's the gospel.

I don't think it has anything to do with being a "grigsonite," whatever that means.  You either believe he has an injury or you don't.  I don't see why grigson would lie about him having an issue with his knee and it makes no sense to do so since it has to be reported every week.  if you believe he has a knee problem, then it's not a stretch that it would affect his ability to perform.  If you don't believe he doesn't have a knee problem, that's your prerogative...but it's based on pure speculation alone. 

[ColtStronger]

A chair is something to sit on!!

[Coffeedrinker]

Pffffft.

 

Grigson says Cherilus is playing through injury. You said you don't believe it. That's a long way from being a "Grigsonite." That's basically calling him a liar.

 

And it's ironic in this case, because Cherilus has a documented injury history. There's nothing strange about the idea that he'd be playing through injury at this point. And if he is, there's no reason to believe his play wouldn't be affected. It's just a strange thing to question, and there's really no basis for questioning it. At least, I can't think of any basis, and you haven't tried to present any basis, other than you're not a Grigsonite, whatever that means.

Utter nonsense.  There are a few reasons he would say it if it weren't true.  First and foremost to cover his own because a player he signed is not playing that well and it's a built in excuse.  Yes, a lot of players have injuries at this point of the season... and for a lot of players is doesn't effect their play.

 

Additionally the reason why I don't just jump up and believe it is because with just about any other player this year that has had an injury that effects their play they have been on the injury report with a least a day of "rest".  Cherilus has not been.  Additionally, Cherilus' play has not changed all that much in the time he has been with the Colts.  He is an above average RT that looks good some of the time and really bad other times.  He's always had a slow kick step and doesn't move that well after the kick step.  That hasn't changed, his kick step is slower.

 

Also, I didn't call him a liar, I said I don't know if I believe it, the "I don't know" is an important part of that phrase because it indicates that I am unsure or undecided.

 

Lastly, "ite" is a suffix based on the latin "ites" and it means a follower or adherent of a specified person.  So a Grigsonite is... have you figured it out yet?  A person that follows Grigson.

 

**Edit**  I went back and look at GC has been on and off the injury report this season.**

[Superman]

Utter nonsense.  There are a few reasons he would say it if it weren't true.  First and foremost to cover his own because a player he signed is not playing that well and it's a built in excuse.  Yes, a lot of players have injuries at this point of the season... and for a lot of players is doesn't effect their play.

 

Worst personnel move Grigson has made in his three years is trading for Trent Richardson. Richardson played poorly all last season, and Grigson was asked about him several times. It wasn't until after the season ended that Grigson ever mentioned Richardson's injury, and that was only when Richardson wound up having surgery. There is no track record of Grigson bringing up injuries to defend a poor personnel move, especially during the season while the player is on the field every week.

 

On the other hand, there have been underperformers that Grigson has spoken frankly about, without using an injury to make an excuse for the player. 

 

Additionally the reason why I don't just jump up and believe it is because with just about any other player this year that has had an injury that effects their play they have been on the injury report with a least a day of "rest".  Cherilus has not been.  

 

...

 

**Edit**  I went back and look at GC has been on and off the injury report this season.**

 

So, Cherilus has been on the injury report, as you said. Kind of lends credence to the idea that he's dealing with something this year. And of course, there's his previous injury history.

 

Again, the idea that Grigson would resort to making up or embellishing an injury is what's nonsense. 

 

Additionally, Cherilus' play has not changed all that much in the time he has been with the Colts.  He is an above average RT that looks good some of the time and really bad other times.  He's always had a slow kick step and doesn't move that well after the kick step.  That hasn't changed, his kick step is slower.

 

Having a slower kick step couldn't possibly be a byproduct of a nagging injury, right?

 

Also, I didn't call him a liar, I said I don't know if I believe it, the "I don't know" is an important part of that phrase because it indicates that I am unsure or undecided.

 

 

 

The insinuation is clear, though. For you to even question Grigson's response is kind of strange to me, given that there's no basis to question it.

 

You're undecided, but the argument is boiling down to 'Grigson is making up or embellishing an injury because signing Cherilus is looking like it wasn't a good move.' And again, there's just no basis for that. It's just weird to me.

 

Lastly, "ite" is a suffix based on the latin "ites" and it means a follower or adherent of a specified person.  So a Grigsonite is... have you figured it out yet?  A person that follows Grigson.

 

So a person who doesn't see any reason to question Grigson's comment about Cherilus playing through an injury is a Grigsonite? Come on.

[Dustin]

Convenient. 

[Coffeedrinker]

 

 

Worst personnel move Grigson has made in his three years is trading for Trent Richardson. Richardson played poorly all last season, and Grigson was asked about him several times. It wasn't until after the season ended that Grigson ever mentioned Richardson's injury, and that was only when Richardson wound up having surgery. There is no track record of Grigson bringing up injuries to defend a poor personnel move, especially during the season while the player is on the field every week.

 

On the other hand, there have been underperformers that Grigson has spoken frankly about, without using an injury to make an excuse for the player. 

 

 

 

True.

 

So, Cherilus has been on the injury report, as you said. Kind of lends credence to the idea that he's dealing with something this year. And of course, there's his previous injury history.

 

 

It does make it more believable.  But funny that he wasn't on the injury report last week or this week if he's dealing with issues related to his knee.  Since they have put him on it in the past.

 

Again, the idea that Grigson would resort to making up or embellishing an injury is what's nonsense. 

 

 

I disagree.

 

Having a slower kick step couldn't possibly be a byproduct of a nagging injury, right?

 

 

I meant to type is kick step isn't any slower.

 

 

You're undecided, but the argument is boiling down to 'Grigson is making up or embellishing an injury because signing Cherilus is looking like it wasn't a good move.' And again, there's just no basis for that. It's just weird to me.

 

 

 

Sorry it's weird to you.  It's weird to me that if he has a knee issue that he is dealing with that they are not taking precautionary steps that they have in the past with it.

 

 

 

So a person who doesn't see any reason to question Grigson's comment about Cherilus playing through an injury is a Grigsonite? Come on.

The insinuation is clear, though. For you to even question Grigson's response is kind of strange to me, given that there's no basis to question it

 That is not what I said nor implied.  But there are a lot of people on this board that act like Grigson does no wrong, the poster I replied to is one of those thus the Grigsonite.

[dw49]

Utter nonsense.  There are a few reasons he would say it if it weren't true.  First and foremost to cover his own because a player he signed is not playing that well and it's a built in excuse.  Yes, a lot of players have injuries at this point of the season... and for a lot of players is doesn't effect their play.

 

Additionally the reason why I don't just jump up and believe it is because with just about any other player this year that has had an injury that effects their play they have been on the injury report with a least a day of "rest".  Cherilus has not been.  Additionally, Cherilus' play has not changed all that much in the time he has been with the Colts.  He is an above average RT that looks good some of the time and really bad other times.  He's always had a slow kick step and doesn't move that well after the kick step.  That hasn't changed, his kick step is slower.

 

Also, I didn't call him a liar, I said I don't know if I believe it, the "I don't know" is an important part of that phrase because it indicates that I am unsure or undecided.

 

Lastly, "ite" is a suffix based on the latin "ites" and it means a follower or adherent of a specified person.  So a Grigsonite is... have you figured it out yet?  A person that follows Grigson.

 

**Edit**  I went back and look at GC has been on and off the injury report this season.**

 

 

 

To say that Grigson is making this up to excuse himself for the signing is really ridiculous and you might want to give it up. If you want to say he would probably stink with or without the injury , that's another thing

 

1) He had an issue with the knee before we signed him and word was that many teams stayed away but the Colts were confident he was sound enough. Looks like our medical staff may have made a bit of a blunder or maybe it isn't their fault as this might be showing up a year after signing him. Anyway , the treatment he received from Germany was well documented when he was signed.

 

2) Wouldn't Cherlius and a good number of his teammates be aware if he was playing hurt ? God.. I would think so. In the event that the injury is fabricated , wouldn't they all be cracking up right now and think Grigson was an * for coming out with this " fake injury ?" 

[Superman]

 

I meant to type is kick step isn't any slower.

 

We obviously disagree about the statement from Grigson. I think we'll both manage to get to sleep this evening, despite that. Moving on to perhaps a more fruitful angle...

 

Since you pay extra special attention to the line play, what's your opinion on why Cherilus isn't having a good year? You say he's basically the same as he was last season, but the results aren't the same. He's already given up 4 sacks and 11 hits this year; he gave up 5 sacks and 14 hits last year (both per PFF). I know he had some bad games last year, and he hasn't been all the way terrible this year, but off the top of my head, I'd say he's probably about 75% of what he was last year, at best. And this is going back to preseason. He's never been impressive in the run game, but I think he's really taken a step back in pass protection.

 

And if you agree that he's not playing as well as he did last year, why do you think that is?

[Gavin]

We obviously disagree about the statement from Grigson. I think we'll both manage to get to sleep this evening, despite that. Moving on to perhaps a more fruitful angle...

 

Since you pay extra special attention to the line play, what's your opinion on why Cherilus isn't having a good year? You say he's basically the same as he was last season, but the results aren't the same. He's already given up 4 sacks and 11 hits this year; he gave up 5 sacks and 14 hits last year (both per PFF). I know he had some bad games last year, and he hasn't been all the way terrible this year, but off the top of my head, I'd say he's probably about 75% of what he was last year, at best. And this is going back to preseason. He's never been impressive in the run game, but I think he's really taken a step back in pass protection.

 

And if you agree that he's not playing as well as he did last year, why do you think that is?

subscription required for those stats?

[Superman]

subscription required for those stats?

Yeah.

[Coffeedrinker]

We obviously disagree about the statement from Grigson. I think we'll both manage to get to sleep this evening, despite that. Moving on to perhaps a more fruitful angle...

 

Since you pay extra special attention to the line play, what's your opinion on why Cherilus isn't having a good year? You say he's basically the same as he was last season, but the results aren't the same. He's already given up 4 sacks and 11 hits this year; he gave up 5 sacks and 14 hits last year (both per PFF). I know he had some bad games last year, and he hasn't been all the way terrible this year, but off the top of my head, I'd say he's probably about 75% of what he was last year, at best. And this is going back to preseason. He's never been impressive in the run game, but I think he's really taken a step back in pass protection.

 

And if you agree that he's not playing as well as he did last year, why do you think that is?

First off, yes, after seeing him on the injury report a few times this season, I am more apt to believe Grigson but there is still something kicking off my nonsense meter about it.

 

Second, I don't think he is playing worse than last year. I do see the DEs line up differently to get more pressure. If someone lines up in his box (meaning the center of the defenders chest is from tip of shoulder pad to tip of shoulder pad) in front of him he can move pretty well and get them.  What they seem to be doing a lot of this year, especially on passing down, is taking another step to the outside.  This forces GC to do a kick step and then move to get his hands on the defender and GC has, IMO, always been bad at that.  If he can just kick step he's fine but he loses all balance when he tries to kick step and move.  So I don't think he's any worse and I think any additional pressures/hits and sacks he's given up this year a function of what I mentioned above and Luck double clutching the ball so much this year.

 

He's never been impressive in the run game but he does do a good job of shielding and getting between the defender and the ball carrier.  I don't have PFFs numbers but I'd guess they probably have him at a 0 to +3 grade for running blocking and getting close (-)9 to (-12) for pass blocking.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

I've been happy with Mewhort at guard, but I think a big part of the reason we drafted him was his versatility  -- if GC doesn't improve soon, I wonder if our best option would be to move Mewhort to RT and plug Holmes/Reitz/Louis into a guard position?  I'll trust the coaches on this, but it would make sense if GC has been playing through some things given his past medical history, his poor play of late, and his massive size (can't be easy on the knees being that big).

[Superman]

First off, yes, after seeing him on the injury report a few times this season, I am more apt to believe Grigson but there is still something kicking off my nonsense meter about it.

 

Second, I don't think he is playing worse than last year. I do see the DEs line up differently to get more pressure. If someone lines up in his box (meaning the center of the defenders chest is from tip of shoulder pad to tip of shoulder pad) in front of him he can move pretty well and get them.  What they seem to be doing a lot of this year, especially on passing down, is taking another step to the outside.  This forces GC to do a kick step and then move to get his hands on the defender and GC has, IMO, always been bad at that.  If he can just kick step he's fine but he loses all balance when he tries to kick step and move.  So I don't think he's any worse and I think any additional pressures/hits and sacks he's given up this year a function of what I mentioned above and Luck double clutching the ball so much this year.

 

He's never been impressive in the run game but he does do a good job of shielding and getting between the defender and the ball carrier.  I don't have PFFs numbers but I'd guess they probably have him at a 0 to +3 grade for running blocking and getting close (-)9 to (-12) for pass blocking.

 

PFF grades him at -8.9 in pass blocking and -1.2 in run blocking. Grades are subjective, but your guess was pretty close.

 

So your thinking is that pass rushers are attacking Cherilus from a wider angle, forcing him to get further to the outside to engage. Interesting, I'll keep an eye out for that moving forward.

 

If that's true, that bothers me. The interior line play has been inconsistent, but there's been room for Luck to step up. Cherilus should be able to take his usual kick step and let wide rushers run past Luck, while Luck steps up into the middle. If there's pressure up the middle, then those pressures are the responsibility of the interior blockers, not Cherilus. Those extra pressures from Cherilus' side are still a function of him not blocking as effectively as he did last year. He and the coaches need to figure out a counter to that wide rush.

 

I've also seen him just plain get beat, either on a speed rush or a rusher beating him with a move. Happens to everyone, but his troubles haven't only been due to a wide rush. And he's seemed less physical in the run game than last year.

 

Again, I'm not laying all of this on an injury. I'm only saying that I think he's definitely not playing as well this season as he did last year. 

[Coffeedrinker]

PFF grades him at -8.9 in pass blocking and -1.2 in run blocking. Grades are subjective, but your guess was pretty close.

 

So your thinking is that pass rushers are attacking Cherilus from a wider angle, forcing him to get further to the outside to engage. Interesting, I'll keep an eye out for that moving forward.

 

If that's true, that bothers me. The interior line play has been inconsistent, but there's been room for Luck to step up. Cherilus should be able to take his usual kick step and let wide rushers run past Luck, while Luck steps up into the middle. If there's pressure up the middle, then those pressures are the responsibility of the interior blockers, not Cherilus. Those extra pressures from Cherilus' side are still a function of him not blocking as effectively as he did last year. He and the coaches need to figure out a counter to that wide rush.

 

I've also seen him just plain get beat, either on a speed rush or a rusher beating him with a move. Happens to everyone, but his troubles haven't only been due to a wide rush. And he's seemed less physical in the run game than last year.

 

Again, I'm not laying all of this on an injury. I'm only saying that I think he's definitely not playing as well this season as he did last year. 

Watch the Cincy game and the Titan game specifically.  And I will admit I don't know, I don't have a measuring tape that I'm holding up to the screen.  But his kick step distance and depth looks pretty much the same as last year but rather that kicking and then engaging, he has to kick, shuffle, step before he even gets his hands on the guy.

 

Another issue that I just thought of(because I think GC played pretty well in the first couple of games, one oddly enough when he was on the injury report) is the way Harrison snaps.  Go back and watch the Pitt game specifically, that is when I really noticed it.  But Luck with say "huh" and there is a pause and then he does the same head bob thing that Satele used to do (that this forum roasted him for) and then he snaps.  He(Harrison) is not only taking away the advantage the offense has by knowing when the ball is being snapped but he is giving that advantage to the D because the D can see the ball but the way they line up, especially in pass protection, the tackles have to go off the movement of the guard.

 

See this is why I like people to call me out some times, especially when I make little the little 'sound bite" comments that I, myself, hate.  Gets my brain working at different angles to see what, I think is/are, the problem(s). 

There are still a lot of Grigsonites on this forum though.

[Dark Superman]

If that doesn't change by the end of the year, I'd be fine with moving on. I know we don't save a lot of cap space in 2015, but the savings moving forward are worth it.

How much cap are we suppose to have roughly? I'm expecting the cap to go up again this year, and for us to cut a few guys as well.

[Superman]

How much cap are we suppose to have roughly? I'm expecting the cap to go up again this year, and for us to cut a few guys as well.

 

If we don't cut anyone, and before we sign anyone, we have a cap figure of $107m going into 2015. We're about $10m below the cap in 2014, which we can roll over. So if our obligations stay the same and the cap stays at $133m, we'd have $36m in cap space in 2015. Many have assumed that the cap will go up to $140m, and I anticipate some cuts. No matter what, we have a good cap situation.

[Superman]

Watch the Cincy game and the Titan game specifically.  And I will admit I don't know, I don't have a measuring tape that I'm holding up to the screen.  But his kick step distance and depth looks pretty much the same as last year but rather that kicking and then engaging, he has to kick, shuffle, step before he even gets his hands on the guy.

 

Another issue that I just thought of(because I think GC played pretty well in the first couple of games, one oddly enough when he was on the injury report) is the way Harrison snaps.  Go back and watch the Pitt game specifically, that is when I really noticed it.  But Luck with say "huh" and there is a pause and then he does the same head bob thing that Satele used to do (that this forum roasted him for) and then he snaps.  He(Harrison) is not only taking away the advantage the offense has by knowing when the ball is being snapped but he is giving that advantage to the D because the D can see the ball but the way they line up, especially in pass protection, the tackles have to go off the movement of the guard.

 

See this is why I like people to call me out some times, especially when I make little the little 'sound bite" comments that I, myself, hate.  Gets my brain working at different angles to see what, I think is/are, the problem(s). 

There are still a lot of Grigsonites on this forum though.

 

I'll take a look at that moving forward. Good stuff.

 

I will say this about "Grigsonites," though. I think it's a pejorative. Five years ago, it would have been "Polian apologists," and that was never taken favorably. You may not mean anything untoward by it, but it's not going to be just glossed over, I can tell you that.

[NewColtsFan]

I'll take a look at that moving forward. Good stuff.

 

I will say this about "Grigsonites," though. I think it's a pejorative. Five years ago, it would have been "Polian apologists," and that was never taken favorably. You may not mean anything untoward by it, but it's not going to be just glossed over, I can tell you that.

 

For what little it's worth (and I do stress "little")

 

I'm a Grigsonite and have been since Day One.

 

Do I agree with everything he's done?    No.    But I wouldn't expect that.

 

But given 11-5, 11-5 and now 5-3,  I'm a Grigsonite until he gives me reason not to be.....   and I think we're a long, long way from that happening.

[Dark Superman]

If we don't cut anyone, and before we sign anyone, we have a cap figure of $107m going into 2015. We're about $10m below the cap in 2014, which we can roll over. So if our obligations stay the same and the cap stays at $133m, we'd have $36m in cap space in 2015. Many have assumed that the cap will go up to $140m, and I anticipate some cuts. No matter what, we have a good cap situation.

Thanks Superman! That's music to my ears! We are in such a great position.

[lollygagger8]

I did not realize DQ Jackson was questionable for Monday night...toe.

 

If Jackson can't go, PLEASE let Freeman and Muamba be out there at the same time!!!!!! 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Cherilus had a great campaign last year...but has been inconsistant this year. I think the coaches were trying to see if he could tough it out until the bye week to rest up. Its a tough call one that we have to trust the coaches and Gosdner to make but to add another backup to an already unsteady line is a tough call. In my opinion if you know he is hurting a bit you need to help him with more chips from TEs and RBs etc...its one thing that I don't think we are necessarily great at...and thats making in game adjustments by Luck at the line or perhaps the coaches during the game. It seems we have a game plan and we don't deviate a lot from that....which is alright...we're 5-3 but to me to be a championship team we are going to have to get better at it.

I agree with the first part it has been a tough year but if he is injured hes got to sit the last 2 weeks against Houston and Pitt he has played BAD Mewhort, Rietz either one I don't care but its a problem he needs to fix!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

First off, yes, after seeing him on the injury report a few times this season, I am more apt to believe Grigson but there is still something kicking off my nonsense meter about it.

 

Second, I don't think he is playing worse than last year. I do see the DEs line up differently to get more pressure. If someone lines up in his box (meaning the center of the defenders chest is from tip of shoulder pad to tip of shoulder pad) in front of him he can move pretty well and get them.  What they seem to be doing a lot of this year, especially on passing down, is taking another step to the outside.  This forces GC to do a kick step and then move to get his hands on the defender and GC has, IMO, always been bad at that.  If he can just kick step he's fine but he loses all balance when he tries to kick step and move.  So I don't think he's any worse and I think any additional pressures/hits and sacks he's given up this year a function of what I mentioned above and Luck double clutching the ball so much this year.

 

He's never been impressive in the run game but he does do a good job of shielding and getting between the defender and the ball carrier.  I don't have PFFs numbers but I'd guess they probably have him at a 0 to +3 grade for running blocking and getting close (-)9 to (-12) for pass blocking.

Coffee isn't he worst than last year because he hasn't adjusted to the positioning? Isn't playing well about making  adjustments when things aren't going well? Maybe he doesn't know or the coaches don't know? Hard to believe they wouldn't know, but he is not the same guy as last year  that's for sure! I think you should message them!

[Coffeedrinker]

Coffee isn't he worst than last year because he hasn't adjusted to the positioning? Isn't playing well about making  adjustments when things aren't going well? Maybe he doesn't know or the coaches don't know? Hard to believe they wouldn't know, but he is not the same guy as last year  that's for sure! I think you should message them!

I guess by saying he hasn't adjusted could be construed as being worse.  But, assuming that he can't increase his foot speed and balance on the move during the season, the only thing he could do to adjust would be to have a wider split but you can't get too carried away with that.  The Colts do have the back look to that side first but as soon as they start sliding the back over there to help then Harrison gets exploited and the pressure comes from the middle.

 

I have written to the Colts and the response was, "As soon as we want the opinion and advice of a 40+ year, never was, we will let you know."  A little hurtful but I see their point.

[Superman]

I guess by saying he hasn't adjusted could be construed as being worse.  But, assuming that he can't increase his foot speed and balance on the move during the season, the only thing he could do to adjust would be to have a wider split but you can't get too carried away with that.  The Colts do have the back look to that side first but as soon as they start sliding the back over there to help then Harrison gets exploited and the pressure comes from the middle.

 

I have written to the Colts and the response was, "As soon as we want the opinion and advice of a 40+ year, never was, we will let you know."  A little hurtful but I see their point.

 

Is that last line serious???