Bill Polian?

[braveheartcolt]

Did you READ previous posts?

sigh>>>>

Please tell me what I should have read, and why you are sighing? If I want cryptic clues, I'll pull out my big book of crossword puzzles. Example:

5 Down: Over inflated ego, insults everyone who he disagrees with, believes in nepotism, hires very poor coaches (4,6)

[braveheartcolt]

No, it's like saying Painter threw an accurate pass to a receiver who dropped the ball. Does Painter get the blame for that?

You are being pedantic. You know fine what I'm saying. Trying hard but not succeeding does not make it all right! This is a game of end results, and Polian is not producing anymore. It's not all about drafting either. Cutting good players and not keeping good ones, bad contracts, cowardice in the face of perfection, arrogant and dismissive of his own fan base etc. I know, I know, he drafted Manning over Leaf.......wahay......Mexican wave..... Edited November 8, 2011 by braveheartcolt

[bayone]

Couldn't have said it better myself. How bad do we have to get before these guys get off the Polian bandwagon?

Edge was god pick but if he paid Faulk we could of traded that edge ( which was the Ricky williams pick ) for a wealth of picks as did the very next team and immediately made us better in many areas for years, The triplets would of been g faulk Peyton & Harrison and we wou;d have surrounded them all with a better team all around immediately

[LUVTHESHOE]

Everyone should be open to criticism, and BP is no exception. But some people expect him to work miracles. He did try to address the O-line with high picks (pollak, Ugoh). They didn't work out. He's made some great moves to keep the team competitive every year, as well as some bad ones (Scott over Lilja, then letting Lilja go).

Over all, he's still one of the top 3 guys in the league at what he does.

I agree he is in the top 3, but anyone would have to admit that our special teams and run defense have needed to by addressed for about 6 years now. Thats not being unfair, just factual.

[Jaric]

QFT.

I can't believe people will bash this guy who helped turn this organization around to what it is today.

0-9?

Edited November 8, 2011 by Jaric

[deedub75]

0-9?

Good one! LOL!

[jtfey]

I could stomach Polian a little if he showed some humility. But his arrogance and his hardline attitude towards the Indy Star's reporters is way too much. He needs to leave or be fired and needs to take his kid with him. It's one thing to have bungled this team to the point that it's in right now. But to do nothing but deny and criticize when obviously he has failed the past 4-5 years is too much for me.

I have been a Colts fan since the early 1960s and will continue to be one. But if Irsay can't see how the Polians' attitudes are ruining this team then we're going to be in for a stretch of ineptitude.

Go Colts!

[shaunzo]

I don't have nearly the problem with Bill that I have with his son. He's the one I'm worried about.

[chad72]

If nothing is done about the coaches at the end of the year, that is when I will start losing respect for the Polians. If they can have a few more drafts like the 2011 draft, I have no doubt this franchise will turn around. Hiring Jim Harbaugh did not make Alex Smith a great QB but did make the coaching front better and he is playing along with the system, makes plays only when he has to (which has not been needed as much, thanks to his D and running game), and they are winning. Just listening to a different set of voices makes a huge difference.

QB play is the single biggest factor hampering us the last few games, IMO. First, it was D, and now it is O, and ST, if they don't make blunders, that is all we can ask for.

[Fatboyslim11]

If nothing is done about the coaches at the end of the year, that is when I will start losing respect for the Polians. If they can have a few more drafts like the 2011 draft, I have no doubt this franchise will turn around. Hiring Jim Harbaugh did not make Alex Smith a great QB but did make the coaching front better and he is playing along with the system, makes plays only when he has to (which has not been needed as much, thanks to his D and running game), and they are winning. Just listening to a different set of voices makes a huge difference.

QB play is the single biggest factor hampering us the last few games, IMO. First, it was D, and now it is O, and ST, if they don't make blunders, that is all we can ask for.

I am glad you are giving them the benefit of the doubt. I haven't bought into the Polian Kool-Aid. IMO, he has never shown the results that say that he is a winner. His Buffalo teams were good, but they had the benefit of having no free agency, no salary cap and a front office with competent staff (a main reason Polian was fired in Buffalo was his ego kept clashing with a few members of the front office. Seems they wouldn't take his Al Haig approach to management). Of course his Buffalo teams went 0-3 in the ultimate game, the Super Bowl. After mooching off the NFL office for a couple of years, Polian became GM of the Carolina Panthers when they and Jacksonville were admitted into the league as expansion teams. The NFL gave the expansion teams unbelievable resources above and beyond what traditional expansion teams and even the other 30 NFL received in terms of a higher salary cap, more players available to the two team via a league wide expansion draft and and entire year to build the teams prior to any league play. The best Polian could do with these resources was an appearance (and loss) in the NFC Championship game. Things started to go sour once again and the owner fired Polian after the 1996 season. Once again Polian returned to the league office where he started a friendship with Jim Irsay and became somewhat of a mentor to him. Irsay was looking for someone to clean up the mess he started as GM and was still bad with Bill Tobin being the current GM. Tobin and the coaching staff were fired after the 1997 season and Polian became Colts GM.

Polian defenders will say look at the team's record prior to and then after his arrival. Depending on what era you use it is good or on par with previous Colts GMs. For instance, a lot of the newer Colts fans will only compare the 1984-2010 Indy era Colts records. By that standard Polian has done very well in the regular seasons. But we had great runs in the 1950s, 1960s and the 1970s with other GMs. Polian's team continually fail in the Postseasons despite having the the best regular season records, going 1-1 in SBs during the Polian era. Other teams that have won less regular season games have done a lot better in the postseason. For me, the criteria is NOT just regular season success but total success (playoff wins including SB appearances and wins). His teams are dismal in the postseasons.

I would say Polian is the perfect used car salesman except that would be an affront to used car salesmen. He continually deflects blame for his failures and will always accept kudos for any team success. He has to be the focus and face of the organization and will not bring in HC with independent views. Don't forget, Irsay has said on many occassions that he is the one that brought in Tony Dungy. Polian saw the perfect * in Caldwell when Dungy recommended a successor and between the two (and Daddy's little boy) we may go 0-16 this year.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Fatboyslim11

[dn4192]

People want to defend him? But can anyone tell me in the last five years how has he helped our weaknesses? Stoping the run? Running the ball? Return Man? If Manning gets hurt this team is in trouble.

How well has the NE Pats GM helped their team? I mean people gush about the Pats, but it seems they are slipping also after their SB run of a few seasons ago? GM's don't always make smart moves, and teams go up and down. Lets see how the Colts handle their first down time in over a decade before passing judgement.

[dn4192]

Been hearing this tired bit for many years now. There is no such thing as a perfect team, which is what you seem to want. These darn imperfections got you mad at Polian? Are you sick of this success? In the last five years we have 2 AFC Championships and a Super Bowl. We go to the playoffs every year and you still want to complain about imperfections? C'mon.....really?

I'm no Polian fan-boy, but I ain't about to cast dispersions at him until this team falls into a multi-year slump.

People point to the Packers as "the" team right now, but overall yes they are winning but how much is it due to Rogers? Their defense is nothing special, remove Rogers and are they best team in the NFL or even in the playoff hunt? Look at Pats, an extremely flawed team who many consider the top overall franchise in the NFL yet their defense is bad and has been bad for a number of seasons...how come their front office and defensive minded coach been able to fix it?

[IndyTrav]

How well has the NE Pats GM helped their team? I mean people gush about the Pats, but it seems they are slipping also after their SB run of a few seasons ago? GM's don't always make smart moves, and teams go up and down. Lets see how the Colts handle their first down time in over a decade before passing judgement.

The Pats front office has been pillaged every year for nearly a decade. Pioli, dimitrtioff, crennell, mcdaniels, wiess are names just off the top of my head that held coaching and FO positions that have moved on from those SBs.

[dn4192]

The Pats front office has been pillaged every year for nearly a decade. Pioli, dimitrtioff, crennell, mcdaniels, wiess are names just off the top of my head that held coaching and FO positions that have moved on from those SBs.

Of those..who has done anything anywhere else they went?

[John Dee]

You are being pedantic. You know fine what I'm saying. Trying hard but not succeeding does not make it all right! This is a game of end results, and Polian is not producing anymore. It's not all about drafting either. Cutting good players and not keeping good ones, bad contracts, cowardice in the face of perfection, arrogant and dismissive of his own fan base etc. I know, I know, he drafted Manning over Leaf.......wahay......Mexican wave.....

Ok, we get it YOU don't like him... but then again probably none of us do. The FACT of the matter is he was the GM for the WINNINGEST team of the 2000's. Sure it could have been better, but seriously bro... lets not Poo Poo the results this team has achieved over the last decade.

darn, I am tired of the T2, Caldwell, and the "we do what we do" attitude but .... when emotion is left aside... This team has had one heck of a run.

[John Dee]

People point to the Packers as "the" team right now, but overall yes they are winning but how much is it due to Rogers? Their defense is nothing special, remove Rogers and are they best team in the NFL or even in the playoff hunt? Look at Pats, an extremely flawed team who many consider the top overall franchise in the NFL yet their defense is bad and has been bad for a number of seasons...how come their front office and defensive minded coach been able to fix it?

It's all about the QB...

[oldunclemark]

I'm just saying without Manning, i don't know what we are as a team. I think people give our success to Polian and really most teams in the league would make the playoffs with Manning. I want players to win the superbowl and Polian just relies on undrafted free agents.

I'd be cool..

we have 2 SBs in 5 years....

.We could be Dallas....with hot chicks on the sidelines and a lot of old guys on the NFL Network..but no recent success,,

We could be the 3-5 Dream Team..which hasnt been in the SB since Wilbert Montgomery was playing..

I'm confident well be back in the playoffs in 2012..we have a lot of offensive talent

[Fatboyslim11]

I'd be cool..

we have 2 SBs in 5 years....

.We could be Dallas....with hot chicks on the sidelines and a lot of old guys on the NFL Network..but no recent success,,

We could be the 3-5 Dream Team..which hasnt been in the SB since Wilbert Montgomery was playing..

I'm confident well be back in the playoffs in 2012..we have a lot of offensive talent

Sometimes it is all in how you say it. We have two SB appearances in five years but only one SB win. Since you are so fond of records what is our playoff record over the past twelve years and how many one and done have we suffered, even the with best regular season record over that span?

[Fatboyslim11]

Of those..who has done anything anywhere else they went?

The point is the Patriots have demonstrated they have great people in the front office that built a winning team and organization. Since most of these people left in the past 5 years because they became in demand because of their success, it may take the Pats some time to recover. The Colts on the other hand, have never been blessed with that type of executive talent under Polian. Mr. Bill would not attract that type or talent nor would he allow people with that sort of talent to stay in the organization because they would be perceived as a threat to his power and that of his son.

[dn4192]

The point is the Patriots have demonstrated they have great people in the front office that built a winning team and organization. Since most of these people left in the past 5 years because they became in demand because of their success, it may take the Pats some time to recover. The Colts on the other hand, have never been blessed with that type of executive talent under Polian. Mr. Bill would not attract that type or talent nor would he allow people with that sort of talent to stay in the organization because they would be perceived as a threat to his power and that of his :edit:son.

Of those who have left, what have they done? I mean really outside of the GM of the Chiefs getting them 1 winning season I have yet to see any other former Pats executive of coach move on to another job and be that successful.

[pacolts56]

I agree he is in the top 3, but anyone would have to admit that our special teams and run defense have needed to by addressed for about 6 years now. Thats not being unfair, just factual.

That is pretty much when and why my issues with Polian came about. And in addition the revolving door at OG and the lack of a power/short yardage element to our rushing attack have been a source of aggravation.... and a healthy part of the reason that we have 1 Super Bowl ring, when 2 or 3 were possible.

The design of the Colts team..... which has dogmatically been "pass first / take the lead / protect the lead".... was a successful (regular season) formula, but IMO, depended ENTIRELY too much on Peyton Manning, as we now clearly see.

Adding some semblance of run-blocking consistency at the OL positions and having one, just one RB capable of hammering out 3rd and short situations.... and having the willingness to use it..... has been absent since 2006/07, and we paid for that twice in the playoffs against San Diego and in the Super Bowl against New Orleans.

My issue with this is that it was every bit as much by design as it was lack of personnel. When were we ever REALLY serious about the OG position, having a solid rushing attack and maintaining possession?

Good playoff teams recognized it and defeated it.

And Polian's design of the defense and its dependency upon how much the offense scores has been a great illustration why the two should be built separately. It is the job of a defense to stop the run....stop the pass....and regain possession of the ball for the offense. Whether Peyton Manning is your QB or Joe Shmoe is.

The string of 12-win seasons were absolutely something to be commended, but we now fully realize, Peyton Manning has been the clear epicenter of why this team has been so good for so long.

Thus, the design of the roster on both sides of the ball has had paper-thin security to it, fully dependent on his health....and this colossal trainwreck could have happened at any time since we won the Super Bowl. From 2000 thru 2006, we probably had enough talent to win 5 or 6 games. Since 2006/07? Well.....we see what we have without Manning.

We have next to nothing, and THAT is the measure of Bill (and Chris) Polian's success over the past 5-6 years.

Whether any of us like it or not, that is how GMs are graded.

[dn4192]

And Polian's design of the defense and its dependency upon how much the offense scores has been a great illustration why the two should be built separately. It is the job of a defense to stop the run....stop the pass....and regain possession of the ball for the offense. Whether Peyton Manning is your QB or Joe Shmoe is.

The string of 12-win seasons were absolutely something to be commended, but we now fully realize, Peyton Manning has been the clear epicenter of why this team has been so good for so long.

Thus, the design of the roster on both sides of the ball has had paper-thin security to it, fully dependent on his health....and this colossal trainwreck could have happened at any time since we won the Super Bowl. From 2000 thru 2006, we probably had enough talent to win 5 or 6 games. Since 2006/07? Well.....we see what we have without Manning.

We have next to nothing, and THAT is the measure of Bill (and Chris) Polian's success over the past 5-6 years.

Whether any of us like it or not, that is how GMs are graded.

Isn't this years Packers built on the same basis. Their plan is just to outscore you. The Packer defense is nothing to write home about. What about the Pats D, which has not been good for a number of seasons now but as long at Brady is playing they play to outscore you? I think this shows that it's just not the Colts who have built winning off of this type of philosophy.

[chad72]

First, Bill Polian addressing Bob Lamey and having his own radio show MUST GO. It only does more harm than good when things are not going well for the team. The other option is - Bill Polian must let Chris Polian on the radio show ALL THE TIME. Chris has been way more forthcoming, less condescending and more genuine with his answers whenever he has made his cameos on the radio show.

Chris could have a couple of drafts like the 2011 draft and might very well turn this franchise around but with his Dad doing more harm than good in the PR world related to the Colts, Chris will continue dealing with collateral damage. People will continue to concentrate on the few traces of dirt on a big clean wall when most of the wall is clean. Thus, the traces of dirt, which I am comparing to how the management has functioned with its personnel & draft decisions the last few years will overpower all the good that they may have done in the past due to which they could possibly be given a chance to do to redeem themselves in the future as well.

I think the PR damage has added to the personnel & draft decisions for the Polians thus leading to them being under the microscope more than before. Just my two cents. Still, the bets are that Jim Irsay is going to keep Chris Polian till his contract expires in 2012, so essentially Chris Polian could be on a lame duck leash and Chris might want to prove a thing or two in 2012 with a different set of coaches, IMO. The last thing Irsay wants to do right now is give Chris Polian an extension after an 0-16 or 1-15 season, just thinking things out loud.

Edited November 8, 2011 by chad72

[pacolts56]

Isn't this years Packers built on the same basis. Their plan is just to outscore you. The Packer defense is nothing to write home about. What about the Pats D, which has not been good for a number of seasons now but as long at Brady is playing they play to outscore you? I think this shows that it's just not the Colts who have built winning off of this type of philosophy.

Your giving hypotheticals..... and its no justification for building a team that way.

But I highly doubt the Packers are 0-9 without Rodgers.

And Matt Cassel had even less experience than Painter and NE won 11 games with Brady out.

That is called a balanced roster.

[dn4192]

Your giving hypotheticals..... and its no justification for building a team that way.

But I highly doubt the Packers are 0-9 without Rodgers.

And Matt Cassel had even less experience than Painter and NE won 11 games with Brady out.

That is called a balanced roster.

No Packers would probably have a couple of wins, as for Cassel he had less experience and the Pats got lucky he is an NFL QB, which Painter isn't.

[dn4192]

First, Bill Polian addressing Bob Lamey and having his own radio show MUST GO. It only does more harm than good when things are not going well for the team. The other option is - Bill Polian must let Chris Polian on the radio show ALL THE TIME. Chris has been way more forthcoming, less condescending and more genuine with his answers whenever he has made his cameos on the radio show.

Chris could have a couple of drafts like the 2011 draft and might very well turn this franchise around but with his Dad doing more harm than good in the PR world related to the Colts, Chris will continue dealing with collateral damage. People will continue to concentrate on the few traces of dirt on a big clean wall when most of the wall is clean. Thus, the traces of dirt, which I am comparing to how the management has functioned with its personnel & draft decisions the last few years will overpower all the good that they may have done in the past due to which they could possibly be given a chance to do to redeem themselves in the future as well.

I think the PR damage has added to the personnel & draft decisions for the Polians thus leading to them being under the microscope more than before. Just my two cents. Still, the bets are that Jim Irsay is going to keep Chris Polian till his contract expires in 2012, so essentially Chris Polian could be on a lame duck leash and Chris might want to prove a thing or two in 2012 with a different set of coaches, IMO. The last thing Irsay wants to do right now is give Chris Polian an extension after an 0-16 or 1-15 season, just thinking things out loud.

To me this idea that Irsay is going to make wholesale changes in the entire franchise is laughable. Not going to happen, it's not in his DNA. You will see a couple coaches replaced and that is about it.

[Jason_]

And Polian's design of the defense and its dependency upon how much the offense scores has been a great illustration why the two should be built separately. It is the job of a defense to stop the run....stop the pass....and regain possession of the ball for the offense. Whether Peyton Manning is your QB or Joe Shmoe is.

This is where I simply see things differently. I don't think it was Polian who designed the defense. They brought in Tony Dungy to fix the defense and he's the one who implemented the current system. Dungy is the one who asked for players who were small and ridiculously undersized. Now, maybe they brought in Dungy because they felt his defense was the perfect compliment to our offense but I'd even find that hard to believe. The Tampa offense was the polar opposite of the Colts offense so Dungy's defense was built to be successful without being predicated on the success of the offense.

[Jason_]

To me this idea that Irsay is going to make wholesale changes in the entire franchise is laughable. Not going to happen, it's not in his DNA. You will see a couple coaches replaced and that is about it.

Is anyone even able to keep track of what side of the argument he's on?

[pacolts56]

This is where I simply see things differently. I don't think it was Polian who designed the defense. They brought in Tony Dungy to fix the defense and he's the one who implemented the current system. Dungy is the one who asked for players who were small and ridiculously undersized. Now, maybe they brought in Dungy because they felt his defense was the perfect compliment to our offense but I'd even find that hard to believe. The Tampa offense was the polar opposite of the Colts offense so Dungy's defense was built to be successful without being predicated on the success of the offense.

The Tampa offense had "game management" type QBs and the Tampa defense was successful because it had all-world Warren Sapp at DT, Quarles and Brooks at LBs and John Lynch at SS.You don't have to predicate anything with your defense when you have that kind of talent in their prime.

They were very strong "down the middle", which we have never been with the very brief exception of the 2006/07 playoff run.

And the Tampa-2, is designed to limit big plays.....i.e. protect the lead.... isn't it?

Now....in all fairness....Warren Sapp type DTs don't grow on trees.

But it's pretty clear what Polian did here.... especially with Freeney and Mathis being the primary building blocks.

Let Peyton and the offense outscore our opponents.... and make them rely of their passing game to scratch out a win.... setting loose our DEs.

In our case..... I believe offensive production mistakingly played way too big a role in Polian's defensive roster building.

[Fatboyslim11]

This is the same tired argument people use to defend Polian. When he is successful with a draft pick or signing, he is a genius. If they don't pan out, it is simply because of bad luck and all the "what ifs" come out to defend him, e.g., what if the guy wasn't injuried, or didn't smoke dope or wasn't depressed or...excuses upon excuse. Why can't some admit he has had a lot more misses than hits over the past 5 years? Other teams operate with the same issues and have better records than the Colts. And--before I hear from the best record over the past (fill in the blank as you wish) defense, that is regular season only and a NFL season includes the playoff and SB. What is our postseason record over that period of time? How many one and done did we have? Our SB record under the great Polian is 1-1 over the past 13 years and our SB record pre Polian was 1-1.

The guy was a good GM in his (past) days. Some will point to this year's draft to say he is good. Most of our draft choices have been injuried (once again simply because of that darn bad luck only us seem to suffer) and really haven't played enough for anyone to make an objective assessment of their abilities. Like Parcells said, lets not put any of them in Canton just yet.

IMO, Polian has lost his ability to make good personnel moves and he, the organization and fans need to move on.

[Jason_]

This is the same tired argument people use to defend Polian. When he is successful with a draft pick or signing, he is a genius. If they don't pan out, it is simply because of bad luck and all the "what ifs" come out to defend him, e.g., what if the guy wasn't injuried, or didn't smoke dope or wasn't depressed or...excuses upon excuse. Why can't some admit he has had a lot more misses than hits over the past 5 years? Other teams operate with the same issues and have better records than the Colts. And--before I hear from the best record over the past (fill in the blank as you wish) defense, that is regular season only and a NFL season includes the playoff and SB. What is our postseason record over that period of time? How many one and done did we have? Our SB record under the great Polian is 1-1 over the past 13 years and our SB record pre Polian was 1-1.

The guy was a good GM in his (past) days. Some will point to this year's draft to say he is good. Most of our draft choices have been injuried (once again simply because of that darn bad luck only us seem to suffer) and really haven't played enough for anyone to make an objective assessment of their abilities. Like Parcells said, lets not put any of them in Canton just yet.

IMO, Polian has lost his ability to make good personnel moves and he, the organization and fans need to move on.

There's a big difference in a player being a bust because the decision to draft him was bad or poor scouting was done, and a player being a bust for other reasons. Any GM going into the draft has to make the best decisions he can with the information he has at the time. However, the underlined part clearly indicates your position of hatred towards Polian and there's no changing your mind because the Colts are not, despite what you're trying to say, the only team afflicted by injuries.

I am personally rather indifferent on Polian, but the lengths that people go to in order to try to discredit him are ridiculous.

[LUVTHESHOE]

Is anyone even able to keep track of what side of the argument he's on?

He is always on the side that gets any reaction. He just got modified on another thread for being the worlds largest spoon and was warned to quit fabricating stuff . I.E. STIRRING THE POT! Edited November 8, 2011 by LUVTHESHOE

[Fatboyslim11]

People point to the Packers as "the" team right now, but overall yes they are winning but how much is it due to Rogers? Their defense is nothing special, remove Rogers and are they best team in the NFL or even in the playoff hunt? Look at Pats, an extremely flawed team who many consider the top overall franchise in the NFL yet their defense is bad and has been bad for a number of seasons...how come their front office and defensive minded coach been able to fix it?

In the end what matters is -- are they winning? Anawer yes. If you want to break down the shys have at it with your opinion. The Packers won it all last year with 18 starters on IR so they were/are more than a one man show. People and circumstances change over time. Just because people perceived NE to be the best team based on their early season success, they have stumbled and their ranking and people perception of the Pats has tumbled accordingly. That is not hard to figure out, you are what your record say you are and the Colts right now look like an unorganized mid level college team run by a out of it tweeter an a has been Vice Chairman and his son.

[chad72]

In the end what matters is -- are they winning? Anawer yes. If you want to break down the shys have at it with your opinion. The Packers won it all last year with 18 starters on IR so they were/are more than a one man show. People and circumstances change over time. Just because people perceived NE to be the best team based on their early season success, they have stumbled and their ranking and people perception of the Pats has tumbled accordingly. That is not hard to figure out, you are what your record say you are and the Colts right now look like an unorganized mid level college team run by a out of it tweeter an a has been Vice Chairman and his son.

Yeah, agree. Besides, the Packers did get 14 of those points on defensive TDs, didn't they? With their margin of victory being 7 vs the Chargers last weekend, you have to admit the D did play a part in securing their victory with those early defensive TDs and the game sealing INT.

Plus, when the Packers went to Atlanta who preferred playing ball control and taking away their outside wideouts with Dunta Robinson and Brent Grimes, the Packers beat them with James Jones and timely INTs with their D 25-14. While giving up points vs the Saints on opening day, they came up with a goal line stand to win at the end. So, the D knows to make plays when needed. That is why they are 8-0.

Edited November 8, 2011 by chad72

[Fatboyslim11]

There's a big difference in a player being a bust because the decision to draft him was bad or poor scouting was done, and a player being a bust for other reasons. Any GM going into the draft has to make the best decisions he can with the information he has at the time. However, the underlined part clearly indicates your position of hatred towards Polian and there's no changing your mind because the Colts are not, despite what you're trying to say, the only team afflicted by injuries.

I am personally rather indifferent on Polian, but the lengths that people go to in order to try to discredit him are ridiculous.

Well, to each his own on Polian. I believe it is just bad judgement to have drafted the number of players we have that were injury prone in college, or according to their scouting reports (ESPN, NFL Insider and various NFL drafting services) were small, needed to add strength or were stiff or just plain average at best that Polian has placed on the roster over the years. Our players suffer so many injuries is it because of bad luck, brittle player, a black cat running around the Colts complex or is our strength and condition program subpar. Then to top it off, Polian has tied 75% of the salary cap to 10-12 players so the rest of the roster is made up of has beens or never were castoff players. BTW, several of our high priced players are underperforming this year and is a big part of why we may be only the second team in NFL history to go 0-16. Of course if that happens it will mainly because of that darn bad luck we seem to always have in Colts land.

[GoColts8818]

I'd be cool..

we have 2 SBs in 5 years....

.We could be Dallas....with hot chicks on the sidelines and a lot of old guys on the NFL Network..but no recent success,,

We could be the 3-5 Dream Team..which hasnt been in the SB since Wilbert Montgomery was playing..

I'm confident well be back in the playoffs in 2012..we have a lot of offensive talent

I'll give you another one, we could be the Chargers, a team most people have viewed as the most talented team in the NFL since about 2006 yet they have won something like one playoff game against a team not named the Colts over that run and haven't even been to a Super Bowl let alone win one.

[Jason_]

Well, to each his own on Polian. I believe it is just bad judgement to have drafted the number of players we have that were injury prone in college, or according to their scouting reports (ESPN, NFL Insider and various NFL drafting services) were small, needed to add strength or were stiff or just plain average at best that Polian has placed on the roster over the years. Our players suffer so many injuries is it because of bad luck, brittle player, a black cat running around the Colts complex or is our strength and condition program subpar. Then to top it off, Polian has tied 75% of the salary cap to 10-12 players so the rest of the roster is made up of has beens or never were castoff players. BTW, several of our high priced players are underperforming this year and is a big part of why we may be only the second team in NFL history to go 0-16. Of course if that happens it will mainly because of that darn bad luck we seem to always have in Colts land.

To the underlined part, I agree that several of our players being overpaid is a big part of the problem. However, I don't know how much of the blame on that I can put on Polian and how much goes on Irsay. Like I said in another thread, it was Irsay who kept saying that Manning would retire a Colt and that Manning would be the highest paid player in history, not Polian. There's a lot that I like about Irsay but I think he has been loyal to a fault to some of the players. Now I could be way off and maybe it really is Polian who overpaid those players, but like I said, Irsay's numerous comments during the Manning negotiations lead me to believe it was more Irsay than it was Polian.

To the part in Red, again I'm not sure how much of that goes on Polian. Speaking in terms of defensive players, those descriptions sound right up Dungy's alley for what he was looking for in regards to undersized but faster players And in terms of offensive linemen, undersized fit the Howard Mudd mold as well because he preferred smaller, faster linemen. It was after Mudd and Dungy left that both the offensive linemen and defensive players being brought in were bigger and stronger than in previous years. Now if a player was injury prone in college and he was drafted anyway then absolutely I'd say that's either bad decision or poor scouting.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Polian has never made a bad decision...I just think a lot of the things people are laying at his feet are not necessarily his fault.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Jason

[deedub75]

I'd be cool..

we have 2 SBs in 5 years....

.We could be Dallas....with hot chicks on the sidelines and a lot of old guys on the NFL Network..but no recent success,,

We could be the 3-5 Dream Team..which hasnt been in the SB since Wilbert Montgomery was playing..

I'm confident well be back in the playoffs in 2012..we have a lot of offensive talent

Where is all of this offensive talent?

[deedub75]

To me this idea that Irsay is going to make wholesale changes in the entire franchise is laughable. Not going to happen, it's not in his DNA. You will see a couple coaches replaced and that is about it.

That's why Bill, and his DNA (pun intended), should be shown the door!

[dn4192]

In the end what matters is -- are they winning? Anawer yes. If you want to break down the shys have at it with your opinion. The Packers won it all last year with 18 starters on IR so they were/are more than a one man show. People and circumstances change over time. Just because people perceived NE to be the best team based on their early season success, they have stumbled and their ranking and people perception of the Pats has tumbled accordingly. That is not hard to figure out, you are what your record say you are and the Colts right now look like an unorganized mid level college team run by a out of it tweeter an a has been Vice Chairman and his son.

Then if that is all that matters then the Colts have been winning, more over the past decade then any other team in the NFL. Yet it seems some here are upset with that and not satisfied with all that winning...isn't wasn't enough. I also wonder where people see this disorganization? I watch the games, what I see is a offense with NO QB and given teh importance of said position, is greatly impacting on how we play. If you compare this season with say last season, I would be interested to know:

1. After 9 games last season what was the Colts average time of possion on offense compared to this year?

2. How many offensive plays were run by the offense last year after 9 games and how many this time?

3. After 9 games how many times had the Colts punted total compared to this time?

4. After 9 games last year how many offensive turnovers had we commited compared to this season?