Bill Polian?

[LUVTHESHOE]

I am fairly convinced he is a troll

he once made a post stating how Peyton wasn't a great passer because he didn't have a tight spiral on his ball when he threw it

I mean cmon seriously?

Ya think, troll is an understatement. I am gonna dub him the plunger, cause all he does is stir crap up!

[dn4192]

But you said in another thread that the regular season is more important than the playoffs/SB.

lolwut

I do, I believe a worth of a team is shown in the regular season, not in the playoffs.

[dn4192]

I am fairly convinced he is a troll

he once made a post stating how Peyton wasn't a great passer because he didn't have a tight spiral on his ball when he threw it

I mean cmon seriously?

Peyton isn't a great passer. Why do people have a problem with that? It doesn't mean he's not a great QB, it's that he just isn't a great passer. You can be a great passer (see Jeff George) and not be a real good QB.

[shaunzo]

Isn't this years Packers built on the same basis. Their plan is just to outscore you. The Packer defense is nothing to write home about. What about the Pats D, which has not been good for a number of seasons now but as long at Brady is playing they play to outscore you? I think this shows that it's just not the Colts who have built winning off of this type of philosophy.

True enough, but it will catch up to them eventually just the same way that it caught up to the Colts. Brady and the Pats have been one and done in the playoffs the last two years, so you could say that it's already starting there. As for the Packers, their defense, as 'bad' as people say it is, has most of the same players it had last year when they were vaulted as one of the best in the league, and a key element in their Super Bowl run. Also, it makes the Colts D look like a bunch of children. Plus, neither one of these teams have the obvious weaknesses on special teams that the Colts have.

[dn4192]

I actually love Polian and think he has done an amazing job, but I do realize there are issues with the team. However, I don't think this season can be laid at the feet of Painter.

We have had an average QB in there (Collins) and Orlovsky has also played some. Did they fare much better? Did they bring back a W? Nope.

The whole team and coaching staff need some assistance and upgrades in spots to be championship ready when Peyton returns. He doesn't need to be the entire team anymore.

I hope Bill (or Chris) can do that.

Collins was thrusted into a no win situation, given very little time to pick up the system, a non mobile QB and facing the Texans on the road to start the season.

[shaunzo]

Peyton isn't a great passer. Why do people have a problem with that? It doesn't mean he's not a great QB, it's that he just isn't a great passer. You can be a great passer (see Jeff George) and not be a real good QB.

His passes, in the past two or three years, have actually tightened and had more touch. Prior to that, he threw A LOT of ducks, mostly due in my opinion to the fact that he's always had to get rid of the ball so quickly. His deep ball isn't what it used to be, not even close to Brees, Rodgers, or Brady, but he still puts up the numbers that all of these guys do. So long story short, you're right, you don't have to be the best passer to be the best QB.

[BionicDamien]

I do, I believe a worth of a team is shown in the regular season, not in the playoffs.

[LUVTHESHOE]

Peyton isn't a great passer. Why do people have a problem with that? It doesn't mean he's not a great QB, it's that he just isn't a great passer. You can be a great passer (see Jeff George) and not be a real good QB.

[BionicDamien]

I just literally LOL'd at work.

[dn4192]

Actually you did....or a reasonable facsimilie thereof. ;)

http://forums.colts....bill-of-health/

You also go out of your way to call him greedy and talk about his lack of abilities. I just don't understand, I guess. But to each, his or her own.

Just to get back on topic, overall...I think Polian has done a good job. The Colts have been the winningest team during his tenure and I count overall, not just SBs because only one team gets there each season. 1 out of 32. Some have never won. We have. I am thankful for that.

Yes I see Peyton as Greedy, he could have accepted alot less, still be very well paid and freed up more monies to address other issues. The only lack of ability with Peyton I have spoken on is his passing ability. He in my opinon doesn't have a strong arm, but he is able to make up for that by being able to put his WR/RB/TE is the best position to catch the passes.

[dn4192]

Your posts are so darn contradicting

when we are on the discussion of 0-9 you claim that its just one bad season and we have been to two super bowls, countless winning seasons etc. blah blah but go on to mistakenly accuse Peyton not coming up big in the playoffs.

First lets drill it into your head, Peyton Manning does not equal the entire Colts team. Playoffs are just like the regular season, everyone needs to play at a high level and execute to win the game and Peyton is no exception. Just because Peyton has a poor game doesn't mean he can't win in the playoffs. Peyton does not play defense or special teams.

Please tell me why Peyton had a 108 qb rating against the Jets, lead the team to the potentially GW field goal and we still lost? Must be Peytons fault.

In 2009 Peyton lead us to the Super Bowl with fairly good numbers against two top defenses. His QB rating in the Super Bowl loss was higher than his rating in his Super Bowl win. Did Peyton play on special teams to prevent that onside kick? Did Peyton run the wrong route that resulted in a pick 6?

In 2008 Peyton didn't turn over the ball once against the Chargers, threw for 300+ yds and a 90 qb rating yet lost. The game went to OT and Peyton never had a chance. Sproles completely gashed our defense and we lost. That 20+ yd TD run sealed the victory.

In 2007 Peyton threw for 400+ yards had a 97 QB rating and still lost. Guess who we lost to by the way. Billy Volek. Is Peyton supposed to play defense against Billy Volek? Our highly touted defense that year couldn't stop Billy Volek!

In 2005 Peyton didn;t turn the ball over once had a 90+ QB rating against the Steelers, put us in the position for a game tying FG that vanderjagt should have made. Is Peyton a kicker?

Peytons worst losses were in '03 and '04 against the Pats and forever tainted his playoff image. People forget he had a 145 QB rating against the Broncos.

Or in 2003 158.3 against the Broncos, 138.8 against the Chiefs, that's not coming up big?

Did you know Peytons playoff QB Rating is higher than Bradys? Oh wait Brady must never come up big in the playoffs

Your logic is absolutely terrible.And I cannot believe you just compared the collegiate playoff system to the NFL I am facepalming right now.

The only stat that matters is W/L, Peyton can have high QB ratings, but we still didn't win.

[dn4192]

And the rest of the team did. you are so full of it.

No the rest of the team didn't either, but Peyton is the leader of this team and to many times it was HE who made mistakes, at what we are paying him I would expect better.

[BionicDamien]

No the rest of the team didn't either, but Peyton is the leader of this team and to many times it was HE who made mistakes, at what we are paying him I would expect better.

We?? You're Chris Polian, aren't you?

[fthoodcoltsfan]

Yes I see Peyton as Greedy, he could have accepted alot less, still be very well paid and freed up more monies to address other issues. The only lack of ability with Peyton I have spoken on is his passing ability. He in my opinon doesn't have a strong arm, but he is able to make up for that by being able to put his WR/RB/TE is the best position to catch the passes.

I really can't understand this. It is documented that he took less than he was offered, and would have taken less still, in fact he wanted to, but Irsay wouldn't let him. Irsay had already said that he was going to make him the highest paid in the league, and he stuck to that. How is that Peyton's fault? How is he greedy? He didn't hold out for more, he gave back as much as he could. HE was also the one who put the clause in to make sure the Colts could opt out of the contract if he doesn't recover from his injury. That was Peyton's doing, no one elses. Tell me, how is that greedy? In my opinion, he did everything that he could to make sure he took care of the team.

[LUVTHESHOE]

I really can't understand this. It is documented that he took less than he was offered, and would have taken less still, in fact he wanted to, but Irsay wouldn't let him. Irsay had already said that he was going to make him the highest paid in the league, and he stuck to that. How is that Peyton's fault? How is he greedy? He didn't hold out for more, he gave back as much as he could. HE was also the one who put the clause in to make sure the Colts could opt out of the contract if he doesn't recover from his injury. That was Peyton's doing, no one elses. Tell me, how is that greedy? In my opinion, he did everything that he could to make sure he took care of the team.

Be smarter than the rest of us and this vortex.

[dn4192]

I really can't understand this. It is documented that he took less than he was offered, and would have taken less still, in fact he wanted to, but Irsay wouldn't let him. Irsay had already said that he was going to make him the highest paid in the league, and he stuck to that. How is that Peyton's fault? How is he greedy? He didn't hold out for more, he gave back as much as he could. HE was also the one who put the clause in to make sure the Colts could opt out of the contract if he doesn't recover from his injury. That was Peyton's doing, no one elses. Tell me, how is that greedy? In my opinion, he did everything that he could to make sure he took care of the team.

Peyton as does any player basically has final say on what their deal is. All Peyton would have had to do is not sign the contract, and tell Irsay to rework it with this figure.

[Nadine]

I really can't understand this. It is documented that he took less than he was offered, and would have taken less still, in fact he wanted to, but Irsay wouldn't let him. Irsay had already said that he was going to make him the highest paid in the league, and he stuck to that. How is that Peyton's fault? How is he greedy? He didn't hold out for more, he gave back as much as he could. HE was also the one who put the clause in to make sure the Colts could opt out of the contract if he doesn't recover from his injury. That was Peyton's doing, no one elses. Tell me, how is that greedy? In my opinion, he did everything that he could to make sure he took care of the team.

This is true. IMO is no more greedy than any other NFL player. Given his importance to this team.......I would say he is less greedy.

Honestly, I feel like this is a silly argument.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Peyton as does any player basically has final say on what their deal is. All Peyton would have had to do is not sign the contract, and tell Irsay to rework it with this figure.

How many times have you told your employer, "Hey keep your money! I don't need a raise. As a matter of fact pay me me less."?

[dn4192]

How many times have you told your employer, "Hey keep your money! I don't need a raise. As a matter of fact pay me me less."?

Never, but my employer doesn't have a salary cap issue like the NFL does. If these were the good ole days of the NFL were teams could spend whatever they wanted, then I would no problem with Peytons deal, but the NFL operates under a salary cap and to have 1 player count so highly against that cap isn't wise. Think how much more space we would have if say the top 5 paid players on the Colts took just 20% less then their actualy contract paid them. They still get a great contract and the colts have how much more money to go add players.

[fthoodcoltsfan]

Never, but my employer doesn't have a salary cap issue like the NFL does. If these were the good ole days of the NFL were teams could spend whatever they wanted, then I would no problem with Peytons deal, but the NFL operates under a salary cap and to have 1 player count so highly against that cap isn't wise. Think how much more space we would have if say the top 5 paid players on the Colts took just 20% less then their actualy contract paid them. They still get a great contract and the colts have how much more money to go add players.

So how much more of a cut does Peyton need to take to not be greedy? I don't know how much of a cut he already took from what Irsay was offering him, but what is acceptable?

[dn4192]

So how much more of a cut does Peyton need to take to not be greedy? I don't know how much of a cut he already took from what Irsay was offering him, but what is acceptable?

Like I said, I think 20% is a fair amount from all the players in that top 5 ranking on the team.

[deedub75]

Like I said, I think 20% is a fair amount from all the players in that top 5 ranking on the team.

Wow, this guy hates Manning and blames him for everything yet loves Polian and feels he can do no wrong!

[Jaric]

Never, but my employer doesn't have a salary cap issue like the NFL does

Yes, actually they do. It's call the bottom line.

It might not be a hard cap, but it's a cap nonetheless.

[LUVTHESHOE]

Wow, this guy hates Manning and blames him for everything yet loves Polian and feels he can do no wrong!

He is a, see post 163

[FireJimCaldwell]

Peyton isn't a great passer. Why do people have a problem with that? It doesn't mean he's not a great QB, it's that he just isn't a great passer. You can be a great passer (see Jeff George) and not be a real good QB.

Ridiculous and that is as polite as I can put it.

[BionicDamien]

Ridiculous and that is as polite as I can put it.

, this has been a good day to read around here.

[braveheartcolt]

DN's right you know. Peyton's a bust, and Polian's a genius.............but wait a minute, didn't Polian draft Peyton....oh no. ............

[dn4192]

DN's right you know. Peyton's a bust, and Polian's a genius.............but wait a minute, didn't Polian draft Peyton....oh no. ............

Why do people have such a hard time seeing what Peyton is? He is one of the best QB's to ever play the game, but that doesn't mean his game doesn't have flaws. I really wonder at times if people just can't see the facts beyond their blue tinted glasses.

[fthoodcoltsfan]

Why do people have such a hard time seeing what Peyton is? He is one of the best QB's to ever play the game, but that doesn't mean his game doesn't have flaws. I really wonder at times if people just can't see the facts beyond their blue tinted glasses.

Wait, we're the ones with the blue tinted glasses, while you're saying we should just blindly trust Polian and Caldwell and everyone else who "knows better", even though what we have been seeing every week this season, and what we've seen the team trending towards these past few years speaks against that? Wow... just wow

[BionicDamien]

Why do people have such a hard time seeing what Peyton is? He is one of the best QB's to ever play the game, but that doesn't mean his game doesn't have flaws. I really wonder at times if people just can't see the facts beyond their blue tinted glasses.

Bro, that's like proclaiming that nobody is perfect. Well, duh.

[dn4192]

Bro, that's like proclaiming that nobody is perfect. Well, duh.

Really, then why is there such an uproar when you speak of said issues about said QB?

[BionicDamien]

Really, then why is there such an uproar when you speak of said issues about said QB?

There isn't. It's you waving the Polian flag while poking holes in Peyton's.

It's a very real possibility that if weren't specifically for Peyton Freakin' Manning, Polian and his nepotism would've been gone LONG ago.

[dn4192]

Wait, we're the ones with the blue tinted glasses, while you're saying we should just blindly trust Polian and Caldwell and everyone else who "knows better", even though what we have been seeing every week this season, and what we've seen the team trending towards these past few years speaks against that? Wow... just wow

I say trust those that have a track record of producing winning teams, that 1 season is not enough evidence that we need to make wholesale changes. This whole "trending" thing isn't true, the numbers don't support it. I posted earlier in another thread the W/L record of the Colts since 2006, there is no downward trend. Yes we only won 10 games in 2010, due to injuries, when this team had all of it key players there was no downward trending. We also had as many wins in 2010 as the SB winner had. Lets see what happens next year and yes even the following season before going off the deep end with full wholesale franchise changes.

[LUVTHESHOE]

Why do people have such a hard time seeing what Peyton is? He is one of the best QB's to ever play the game, but that doesn't mean his game doesn't have flaws. I really wonder at times if people just can't see the facts beyond their blue tinted glasses.

Hey DONK, SHUT UP! I just wanted to try to get to my quota of negative comments for a day, and with you around I am shocked that is the first time I have seen that. Man and I thought my wife could be annoying. No offense, but you are more annoying than a 5 year old adhd kid with a squirt gun.

[dn4192]

There isn't. It's you waving the Polian flag while poking holes in Peyton's.

It's a very real possibility that if weren't specifically for Peyton Freakin' Manning, Polian and his nepotism would've been gone LONG ago.

I have poked 2 holes in Peyton, 1 being while a great QB, he is not a great passer. And that he is greedy, which he is not alone in. And yes had Polian not taken Manning he may have been gone. He could have also been gone had he taken Peyton and not taken Edge, or Wayne, or Freeney or a number of other players that have contributed to this franchise success over the past decade. But he didn't he took them all and we won.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Why do people have such a hard time seeing what Peyton is? He is one of the best QB's to ever play the game, but that doesn't mean his game doesn't have flaws. I really wonder at times if people just can't see the facts beyond their blue tinted glasses.

Yeah his game has flaws. He's not the most athletic QB in the world. He's not very mobile, he throws better in the pocket than he throws on the move. Those are some of his flaws.

Saying he isn't a great passer isn't proclaiming a fall, it's just pure ignorance.

If you are saying Jeff George has a stronger arm then say so, but having a strong arm doesn't make one a great passer. Kyle Boller can attest to that. Manning's one of the two purest passers to ever play the game with Marino and neither one threw a tight spiral more than 50% of the time. A tight spiral doesn't make for a great passer.

Again, this is ridiculous and if you think Jeff George is a great passer and Manning isn't, then it's far worse than ridiculous.

[dn4192]

Yeah his game has flaws. He's not the most athletic QB in the world. He's not very mobile, he throws better in the pocket than he throws on the move. Those are some of his flaws.

Saying he isn't a great passer isn't proclaiming a fall, it's just pure ignorance.

If you are saying Jeff George has a stronger arm then say so, but having a strong arm doesn't make one a great passer. Kyle Boller can attest to that. Manning's one of the two purest passers to ever play the game with Marino and neither one threw a tight spiral more than 50% of the time. A tight spiral doesn't make for a great passer.

Again, this is ridiculous and if you think Jeff George is a great passer and Manning isn't, then it's far worse than ridiculous.

I guess it comes down to how you determine what makes up a great passer.

[BionicDamien]

He could have also been gone had he taken Peyton and not taken Edge, or Wayne, or Freeney or a number of other players that have contributed to this franchise success over the past decade. But he didn't he took them all and we won.

Yep. And we still have a few of those guys left, plus a few new additions. All guys Polian brought in.

So, what's happening this season (0-9)? This season is the direct evidence that Manning has MADE Polian as far as his tenure in Indy is concerned. He's looked like a genius on the back of Mannings greatness. Is that true? Heck, I don't know. But it's a fair question to raise, especially in light of all your pro-Polian, Joe Fan shenanigans that largely waffles and changes direction more often than a crooked politician.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I guess it comes down to how you determine what makes up a great passer.

Go for it.

Let's see a detailed list.

[dn4192]

Yep. And we still have a few of those guys left, plus a few new additions. All guys Polian brought in.

So, what's happening this season (0-9)? This season is the direct evidence that Manning has MADE Polian as far as his tenure in Indy is concerned. He's looked like a genius on the back of Mannings greatness. Is that true? Heck, I don't know. But it's a fair question to raise, especially in light of all your pro-Polian, Joe Fan shenanigans that largely waffles and changes direction more often than a crooked politician.

I would say we are where we are because (1) we are missing Peyton and (2) For whatever reason the Colts made a very poor choice for the backup QB. If we had a viable backup this team is like 3-6 or maybe even 4-5 this season, however with the person manning the QB position right now the odds of us winning is not very good. And who knows...maybe that was the master plan of those in charge from the start?