Vontae Davis - Best Corner in the NFL

[Le Neon]

Fan hyperbole.

Not necessarily. It helps that Vontae got to play the Jaguars, but he gives up the lowest passer rating in the NFL. Pair that with a 40% catch percentage only 54 yards given up through three games and solid run support. (per PFF)

It's too early for that data to mean much, especially if he doesn't keep up the effort. But he's having a terrific year so far.

[Superman]

There are several advanced metrics that support Davis' inclusion as a top three corner right now.

 

Among corners who have played at least 50% of their team's snaps:

Passer rating against: #1

Yards/coverage snap: #3

Coverage snaps/reception: #5

Completion percentage against: #3 (tied)

Yards/completion against: #16, at 8.9 yards/completion against (Revis is #43 at 12.9, Sherman is #44 at 13.2, Kyle Fuller is #62 at 16.5)

 

It's only been three games. Last season, Davis had issues from week to week, depending on his mood. So I'm not ready to crown him after only three games. But the early returns are nothing if not promising.

[OffensivelyPC]

To be truly the best I think you have to do it for at least a season, and some would argue you have to do it in the play offs against what should be the better teams. 

 

 

Well, if we see Denver in the playoffs, then you know that's one shutdown game you can check off.

[SteelCityColt]

Well, if we see Denver in the playoffs, then you know that's one shutdown game you can check off.

 

Only if Brady get's the start for Denver  

[OffensivelyPC]

This was a definite bit of game planning by the Packers, look at who lined up against Sherman all game... 

 

That's the downside to Sherman in some ways, yes he can "shutdown" half of the field, but it also means teams can easily steer away their #1 from him if they so choose. 

That's the whole point of the Seahawks defense.  They have him cover #2 and #3 wideouts for the sole purpose that he shuts them down, the logic (which I think most can agree with) being that you have your best man guy on a lesser receiver you know he can take him out of the game.  That allows the Seahawks to devote more coverage to the #1 with the safety over the top.  They run a lot of cover 3 and shade the coverage over the side of the field opposite Sherman.  It's kind of like baseball in that regard, when you know a batter hits a very high percentage to one side of the field.  Sure, you might get beat on occasion, but more often than not, you're going to get the results you want.

[cm43sports]

This was a definite bit of game planning by the Packers, look at who lined up against Sherman all game... 

 

That's the downside to Sherman in some ways, yes he can "shutdown" half of the field, but it also means teams can easily steer away their #1 from him if they so choose. 

 

Did you watch the Game or just regurgitating what you read? They constantly lined their #3 receiver on him because he only plays one side. Why wouldn't you put your third option on him and then just not pay attention to him.

Please stop posting until you say something that makes sense.

I know the Packers schemed their offense that way. By putting a #3 on Sherman, they allow Sherman to remove half the field and roll the coverage and safety help to the other side of the field. By letting Sherman take away half the field, you let Thomas and Chancellor help to the other side, hence the reason the Packers struggled offensively. Avoiding Sherman plays right into their hands. To beat the Seahawks you have to challenge Sherman like Philip Rivers did or like Luck did last year.

[Superman]

That's the whole point of the Seahawks defense.  They have him cover #2 and #3 wideouts for the sole purpose that he shuts them down, the logic (which I think most can agree with) being that you have your best man guy on a lesser receiver you know he can take him out of the game.  That allows the Seahawks to devote more coverage to the #1 with the safety over the top.  They run a lot of cover 3 and shade the coverage over the side of the field opposite Sherman.  It's kind of like baseball in that regard, when you know a batter hits a very high percentage to one side of the field.  Sure, you might get beat on occasion, but more often than not, you're going to get the results you want.

 

Yup. It's hard to really consider Sherman a shutdown corner when they play as much Cover 3 as they do. It works, so I'm not knocking it, and Sherman plays his role well, so I'm not knocking him, but to me, that's not what a shutdown corner does.

[OffensivelyPC]

Yup. It's hard to really consider Sherman a shutdown corner when they play as much Cover 3 as they do. It works, so I'm not knocking it, and Sherman plays his role well, so I'm not knocking him, but to me, that's not what a shutdown corner does.

I agree.  It's a valid criticism.  I have to kind of roll my eyes when some Seahawks fans wave it off as if he isn't a product of the system.  He is good, I'd even say very good.  But he gets a lot of help from the guys along side him and their coaching philosophy.

[Superman]

I agree.  It's a valid criticism.  I have to kind of roll my eyes when some Seahawks fans wave it off as if he isn't a product of the system.  He is good, I'd even say very good.  But he gets a lot of help from the guys along side him and their coaching philosophy.

 

When he does play man, he does a good job. I say that with a limited perspective, because I don't sit back and examine his play and chart his every snap, but that's my impression of him. It's not that he couldn't be a shutdown corner, but to me, he hasn't earned that label. I don't want to hear about "Sherman Island." Revis earned his nickname by shadowing the best receiver all game long, with limited help, and shutting him down. The Jets really did put him on an island, and he owned that island. Sherman hasn't done that, nor has anyone else, really. Certainly not to the extent that Revis did.

[Narcosys]

I know the Packers schemed their offense that way. By putting a #3 on Sherman, they allow Sherman to remove half the field and roll the coverage and safety help to the other side of the field. By letting Sherman take away half the field, you let Thomas and Chancellor help to the other side, hence the reason the Packers struggled offensively. Avoiding Sherman plays right into their hands. To beat the Seahawks you have to challenge Sherman like Philip Rivers did or like Luck did last year.

 

Wow, the didnt let him take half the field away, they just let him take a man out.  If he was taking away half the field, he would be playing zone...he doesnt do that.   they still played routes going to that side.  Let the Safetys roll left and then you run your rights to the right while sherman focuses on your third option, meanwhile your ones and twos are working against the linebackers. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

But if your talking 2014, 3 games is far too soon and far too small a sample to proclaim anyone the best of anything. Let's see how he does after a full season.

Still it's nice that we're having these sort of debates rather than if a 2nd was too high, practically looks a bargain now.

 

3 games, 2 of them against very good offenses. Dude is holding it down.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Wow, the didnt let him take half the field away, they just let him take a man out. If he was taking away half the field, he would be playing zone...he doesnt do that. they still played routes going to that side. Let the Safetys roll left and then you run your rights to the right while sherman focuses on your third option, meanwhile your ones and twos are working against the linebackers.

Did you watch the game? Rodgers didn't even look at that side of the field.

[Narcosys]

Did you watch the game? Rodgers didn't even look at that side of the field.

You can STILL run routes to that side with him focused on playing man. Take him high and drop a receiver underneath. That was the whole point of what I said.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

You can STILL run routes to that side with him focused on playing man. Take him high and drop a receiver underneath. That was the whole point of what I said.

They use cover 3 a lot. He stayed on that side of the field and shut it down.

[SteelCityColt]

3 games, 2 of them against very good offenses. Dude is holding it down.

Variety in opposition quality is one of the reasons for 3 games being too small a sample.

[Bluefire4]

I'm just glad he's the type of person that gets his contract and plays hard, rather than a guy who slacks off after getting the money.

[BlueShoe]

Fan hyperbole.

Your opinion is noted. Carefully thought about. And we have decided to go in a different direction.

[BlueShoe]

If you think he owned Sherman then you're mistaken.

I have video evidence that will prove you are wrong. How far do you want to take this?

[Superman]

Wow, the didnt let him take half the field away, they just let him take a man out.  If he was taking away half the field, he would be playing zone...he doesnt do that.   they still played routes going to that side.  Let the Safetys roll left and then you run your rights to the right while sherman focuses on your third option, meanwhile your ones and twos are working against the linebackers. 

 

The Seahawks play a lot of zone. Mostly Cover 3. When they do play man, half of the time they play man-off, with one or both of the outside corners bailing out into a one-third zone type of coverage. Even when they press at the line, they often don't play man throughout the play.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/shutdown-corner/greg-cosell-playoff-film-review-let-check-richard-213846006--nfl.html

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/1/29/5355360/super-bowl-xlviii-seahawks-defense-richard-sherman-earl-thomas-covering-peyton-manning

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

I have video evidence that will prove you are wrong. How far do you want to take this?

Go ahead and show that video. I've watched that gameand many replays. Clearly ya don't understand NFL defense or assignments if you think he was "burned".

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

The Seahawks play a lot of zone. Mostly Cover 3. When they do play man, half of the time they play man-off, with one or both of the outside corners bailing out into a one-third zone type of coverage. Even when they press at the line, they often don't play man throughout the play.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/shutdown-corner/greg-cosell-playoff-film-review-let-check-richard-213846006--nfl.html

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/1/29/5355360/super-bowl-xlviii-seahawks-defense-richard-sherman-earl-thomas-covering-peyton-manning

People need to Read this to understand the Hilton v Sherman thing.

[Narcosys]

People need to Read this to understand the Hilton v Sherman thing.

I can agree with this

[BlueShoe]

This is crazy talk.. as much as i want davis to be the best he is far from it.. if were doing it by statistics kyle fuller is the leader right now.. he leads in interceptions with 3. Nfl.com has vontae rated 22nd in the league.. lol far from number one. You have a better case in saying toler is the best because he is ranked 10th. Either way you look at it, its hard to say davis is the best when people have more interceptions and pass defenses then him.

Quarterbacks are not throwing at Davis because he is shutting receivers down. Shut down corners usually do not have great stats. Bortles did not know any better.

[Narcosys]

The Seahawks play a lot of zone. Mostly Cover 3. When they do play man, half of the time they play man-off, with one or both of the outside corners bailing out into a one-third zone type of coverage. Even when they press at the line, they often don't play man throughout the play.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/shutdown-corner/greg-cosell-playoff-film-review-let-check-richard-213846006--nfl.html

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/1/29/5355360/super-bowl-xlviii-seahawks-defense-richard-sherman-earl-thomas-covering-peyton-manning

Superman, I know you know to much for me too even try to debate with you. But I've seen Sherman take people all the way down the field or continue with then across which seems like man to me. Which maybe it's at that time.

[Superman]

People need to Read this to understand the Hilton v Sherman thing.

 

Yup. 

 

Two trains of thought on that, though:

 

1) Sherman appeared to be passing Hilton off, but Luck had manipulated the safety too far to the other side of the field, so this was a blown coverage, more than anything else.

 

2) On the other hand, I don't think Sherman can run with Hilton, and even if he wasn't passing him off, I think Hilton would have had a step on him. The counter argument might be that Sherman would have been more physical if he wasn't going to be passing him off, but I believe we had Hilton in motion, off the line, so a legal jam would have been difficult. 

[BlueShoe]

Go ahead and show that video. I've watched that gameand many replays. Clearly ya don't understand NFL defense or assignments if you think he was "burned".

Oh so what you are saying is Sherman cannot be burned, but he can shut receivers down. Others are also saying that he shuts down half of the field.

You have bought into Sherman hype. It reminds me when you were sold on the 49ers beating us down last year because they were mad.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Oh so what you are saying is Sherman cannot be burned, but he can shut receivers down. Others are also saying that he shuts down half of the field.

You have bought into Sherman hype. It reminds me when you were sold on the 49ers beating us down last year because they were mad.

I haven't bought into any hype. I look at numbers and plays. That wasn't him being burned at all. And Yes, he shuts receivers and often whole halves of fields down on the reg.

I can't speak to your other point because I have 0 idea what I posted about that game 1 year ago aside from being hyped about Trent.

[Superman]

Superman, I know you know to much for me too even try to debate with you. But I've seen Sherman take people all the way down the field or continue with then across which seems like man to me. Which maybe it's at that time.

 

Yeah, no question he plays man some of the time. But the Seahawks run a lot of zone coverage, and that includes Sherman. That's my only beef with calling him a shutdown corner.

[BlueShoe]

I haven't bought into any hype. I look at numbers and plays. That wasn't him being burned at all. And Yes, he shuts receivers and often whole halves of fields down on the reg.

I can't speak to your other point because I have 0 idea what I posted about that game 1 year ago aside from being hyped about Trent.

I will refresh your memory. You said the 49ers are going to beat the brakes off of the Colts because they are mad about losing to the Seahawks.

I said the Colts would win.

You have created a realm in which Sherman can do no wrong. His marketing tactics are working on you.

Vontae is better than Sherman.

[BlueShoe]

Yeah, no question he plays man some of the time. But the Seahawks run a lot of zone coverage, and that includes Sherman. That's my only beef with calling him a shutdown corner.

 

Agreed. It also gives Sherman an out when something goes wrong. Too many believe it is never Sherman's fault when a play breaks down. I will argue that the long bomb Luck threw to TY was a Sherman mistake. I believe that was a play he should have stayed with TY and not passed him off. I doubt he would have kept up with TY anyway, but I believe the broken play was on Sherman. Hence why TY signed "Sorry Sherman". 

 

Can't be a shutdown corner in a zone scheme. It can be a shutdown secondary, but I believe even that is over-hyped about the Seahawks defense. Don't get me wrong, they are really good. I don't believe they are the best in the NFL though. In my mind that tag should belong to the Arizona Cardinals. And the Colts are a safety away from challenging too.

[Jhaze55]

Maybe he has been, through three games..

 

But that's an awful small sample size. There's no way of knowing how he will play next week, as he has a history of being inconsistent.

 

Don't get me wrong though, I hope he keeps it up

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

I will refresh your memory. You said the 49ers are going to beat the brakes off of the Colts because they are mad about losing to the Seahawks.

I said the Colts would win.

You have created a realm in which Sherman can do no wrong. His marketing tactics are working on you.

Vontae is better than Sherman.

Nope. I'm just not one of those pansies that has a vendetta against him because he talks trash. He backs it up in a big way and That's all that matters. Quote me that post, I don't recall at all.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Agreed. It also gives Sherman an out when something goes wrong. Too many believe it is never Sherman's fault when a play breaks down. I will argue that the long bomb Luck threw to TY was a Sherman mistake. I believe that was a play he should have stayed with TY and not passed him off. I doubt he would have kept up with TY anyway, but I believe the broken play was on Sherman. Hence why TY signed "Sorry Sherman".

Can't be a shutdown corner in a zone scheme. It can be a shutdown secondary, but I believe even that is over-hyped about the Seahawks defense. Don't get me wrong, they are really good. I don't believe they are the best in the NFL though. In my mind that tag should belong to the Arizona Cardinals. And the Colts are a safety away from challenging too.

If you're "agreed" with what he said about the zone coverage then how can you believe he was burned or responsible for Hilton past his buzz zone. It's laughable.

[Le Neon]

Yeah, no question he plays man some of the time. But the Seahawks run a lot of zone coverage, and that includes Sherman. That's my only beef with calling him a shutdown corner.

Would "more Rod Woodson than Deion Sanders" be a correct analogy? Far less man responsibilty, no less dangerous in coverage?

[Superman]

Would "more Rod Woodson than Deion Sanders" be a correct analogy? Far less man responsibilty, no less dangerous in coverage?

 

That's fine with me. Rod Woodson earned every inch of space he's taking up in the HOF.

[SubZero]

Yep I said it.

He is better than Richard Sherman.

Vontae shuts receivers down. After his day is over, he does not need to tell anyone about it. All he does is play man-to-man coverage for most of the day, shuts his side of the field down, smiles, and says thank you.

There has not been a better NFL corner in the 2014 season.

I will agree that he does lock down receivers but Revis still is the best in my eyes. Don't get me wrong Davis is easily top 5 and could reach to number one at any moment, but he was too inconsistent last year. Revis follows the best receivers and takes them out of the game. Vontae has lockdown skills but I think he needs to follow the best receiver to be the best IMO.

[21isSuperman]

I think he's a top 3 CB because he's so great in press man coverage, but his zone coverage and not following the best WR on every play prevents him from being #1. Here's my rankings.

1. Patrick Peterson

2. Richard Sherman

3. Vontae Davis 

4. Joe Haden

5 Darrelle Revis

 

Top 3 is still great, one of the best CB's the Colts have ever had.

Peterson and Haden aren't doing too well for themselves and teams aren't scared to throw at Revis.  The Raiders (with Derek Carr at QB) were willing to test him a lot.

 

My issue with Vontae coming into this season was his consistency.  So far, his play has been far more consistent this year.  He was well worth the 2nd round pick we gave up for him

[SOMDColtsfan]

Andre Johnson lit Vontae up last year, I`m interested in this years matchup..(que dudeski in with "no he didn't"!)

[Nobody]

Ugh. He's not #1, no. I don't want him to now be overrated.

[BlueShoe]

If you're "agreed" with what he said about the zone coverage then how can you believe he was burned or responsible for Hilton past his buzz zone. It's laughable.

 

Because I believe that was a man coverage play that Sherman missed. Should I write it in crayons for you?