Too early to think in new HC?

[Jason_]

Like others have said, Pagano is not the sole problem, but it's Pep's play calling.

However, as the HC, Pagano needs to be able to override Peps play calling when it's perfectly clear that it's a bad call (ie the two straight run calls at the end)

I expect Luck to light up the Jags this Sunday

 

How would that work?  Does Pep have to run every play call past Pagano before he calls it in to Luck?  BTW, those 2 runs at the end were NOT perfectly clearly bad calls.  The first play went for 6 yards.  The 2nd play, if I remember correctly, was an audible by Luck.  Going to watch the game again tonight to verify but nearly positive that it was.  Either way, they were still setup with a 3rd and 5 which is completely makeable.  

[Superman]

I'm not answering for lollygagger because he and I have different view points on this but I have no issue with running it twice on the last drive, what I would have liked to have seen though, is on 3rd and 5 NOT to go with an empty backfield but line up in that unbalanced line and do a PAP out of the formation, or even if it's not the unbalanced line but to line up with a back in the backfield and maintain the threat of the run.  They did the same thing earlier when it was 3rd and 2 they go empty backfield and the drive was stopped.

 

Yes, they proved they could run the ball and run it well.  Use that to enhance the passing game.

 

I agree. I generally hate empty backfield on 3rd and 4th down, especially when it's not long distance.

[lollygagger8]

We didn't throw an interception on the last drive. Are you confusing that drive with the second to last drive? This is why I'm asking, because I think you're combining those two possessions in your head.

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong.

 

Yessir, you are correct. Sorry 

[Jason_]

What's wrong with a winning team?

 

Yesterday, we were up by two scores at halftime. First possession, two runs for 8 yards, then an incomplete pass on 3rd and 2. Yeah, we run too much, right?

 

Second possession, run play for a yard, pass play for a first down (plus a penalty), INC, big scramble, first down again. Run for 5, run for 9, run for 5. At what point in this possession is the run NOT working? At what point is it hurting the team's chances of winning? It's 2nd and 5, incomplete pass, 3rd and 5, scramble for 3 yards, 4th down, FG. I ask again, do you want to be a passing team, or a winning team? Both of these first drives stalled because our passing game couldn't convert when we tried, not because of any failure with the run game. We probably should have run more on 3rd down, especially on the first drive.

 

Third possession, Trent fumbles. Is that a reason to abandon the run?

 

Fourth possession, pass, pass, run, pass, pass, pass, run, pass, scramble, pass, pass, pass, TD. "We are sooo run heavy, why do we keep running out of the same formation????" We're not. This possession is an example of why this criticism is pointless.

 

Fifth possession, run, pass (first down), run, run, pass (first down; see a pattern? You're up late in the game, you want first downs, however they come), run, run, INT. That's because we ran too much, right? 

 

Sixth possession, run for 6 yards, run for -1, INC. When you run for 6 yards on first down, are you being stopped? Has the defense given you reason to think that run isn't working? I admit, 2nd and 4 is a PERFECT opportunity for play action, which Pep hasn't learned about yet. However, this drive doesn't stall because of too much running. We ought to be able to complete a pass to pick up 3rd and 5. Our QB has been called our savior, he's supposed to be the one erasing all of the problems with this team, but we can't give him the ball on 3rd and 5 and at least get a completion with a chance for some YAC? 

 

Just examine the drives. We didn't lose because we ran the ball too much. And this was the same criticism that people bandied about last week, when we hardly ran the ball at all. (Yes, people blamed Pep's run heavy offense for last week's loss.) It rings hollow. What it boils down to is that people don't like Pep and what he tried to do last season, and so everything that happens with the offense is his fault. <---TRUTH But there's plenty to talk about without making the run/pass balance out to be the culprit. It's not. Just like last week, we have to execute better, and just like last week, a lot of that faulty execution can be laid at the feet of the QB.

 

 

[Superman]

How would that work?  Does Pep have to run every play call past Pagano before he calls it in to Luck?  BTW, those 2 runs at the end were NOT perfectly clearly bad calls.  The first play went for 6 yards.  The 2nd play, if I remember correctly, was an audible by Luck.  Going to watch the game again tonight to verify but nearly positive that it was.  Either way, they were still setup with a 3rd and 5 which is completely makeable.  

 

Yup. Let's talk about the bad 3rd and 5 call, not the calls we made to get into a perfectly acceptable 3rd and 5. We should be happy with whatever we did to get us to 3rd and 5. A good offense eats on 3rd and 5.

[lollygagger8]

You said we telegraphed the run. Seemed to me you were saying that running over and over again out of that formation was the problem. I disagree, but if that's not what you were saying, then never mind.

 

They didn't figure out the run in the second half. The first drive, we ran the ball four times for 20 yards, then started passing and the drive stalled. The second possession, Trent fumbled. Third possession, we ran the ball twice in 12 plays. It wasn't until the fourth possession that they actually got some stops on us in the run game, and until the pick, Luck was able to convert the moderate 3rd downs.

 

There were instances where we should have passed, or hit play action, absolutely. But they didn't come out in the second half and shut down our run game. Not at all. And you don't stop running the ball just because they get you for a 2 yarder every now and then. 

 

We did telegraph the run. I want to run different plays out of the same formations. I believe we are on the same page there. 

 

They didn't shut us down, but we didn't run the ball near as well in the 2nd half as we did in the first half. What I'm saying is, we should have hit them with some passes out of play action (again I think we are on the same page) since we'd been setting them up for it all night. 

 

I kind of feel we took our foot off the gas, and it came back and bit us in the rumpshaka

[Superman]

Yessir, you are correct. Sorry 

 

So re-examine those two drives, down and distance, time remaining, and tell me why there's an issue with the run/pass ratio.

[JoKeR]

Pagano is a very good coach, he's a big part of this teams upside, Hamilton is questionable though. We should've been running when Luck was intercepted, should've been passing on the next series IMO.

[Superman]

We did telegraph the run. I want to run different plays out of the same formations. I believe we are on the same page there. 

 

They didn't shut us down, but we didn't run the ball near as well in the 2nd half as we did in the first half. What I'm saying is, we should have hit them with some passes out of play action (again I think we are on the same page) since we'd been setting them up for it all night. 

 

I kind of feel we took our foot off the gas, and it came back and bit us in the rumpshaka

 

See, I'm okay with telegraphing the run, if you're still moving the ball. If you can line up in an obvious running situation and impose your will on the other team, you're okay. That's what the Pats did to us last year in the playoffs. If it works, there's no need for deception and misdirection.

[theomaestro]

Pagano is a very good coach, he's a big part of this teams upside, Hamilton is questionable though. We should've been running when Luck was intercepted, should've been passing on the next series IMO.

Didn't Pagano bring Hamilton to the Colts? How does that make him a good coach. Coaching cost us that game last night and Pagano has to take the ultimate blame.

[superrep1967]

Don't misunderstand me i really want to Chuck succeed as a Coach but he needs to understand that he has a once in a Generation QB and your motto can't be "Run the ball, stop the run" on this new NFL where the WR can't be touched, and if you just realize Luck is taking all the blame(we don't completely blame him) because he has blind trust on their Couches and he's always gonna take the blame(he deserves some) but Chuck and Grigson made really bad movements:

• Laron Landry(can't tackle property),RJF(good but not enough),Jackson(like RJF)
• TR trade(we could got a pass rusher with that pick and this years draft there were really good RBs till 5th)
• not addressing the pass rush problem(Werner was supposed to help not to resolve the pass rush issues),
• not getting a Center( i mean Khaled Holmes 12 snaps weren't warranty) what if A.Q. didn't get cut? who would be the center Jack?, then who you trust to cover the LG? another injury-prone ?
• FS ?? really we could made an aggressive offer to Jarius Byrd(we have way too much cap this year)I know that they are saving cap cause they are gonna pay Allen,Luck,Hilton,etc.

Good thing they have done:

• 2012 Draft
• Getting a decent (above-average DL)
• Re-sing Vontae Davis
• Try to protect Luck(they have heavily invest on the OL)
• Finding Diamonds in the rough 

 

I mean Chuck has developed into a great motivator and average HC, but he tries to play like SF or SEA when he doesn't have the personal, if you have T.Y., Reggie, Nicks, Allen, and you try to run and when you pass are passes with a specific target(Luck throw the ball even if his target is on Disadvantage but it's designed to that player) you are trying to force the things, i'm not an expert and i have zero experience coaching but when you watch those games where Luck throws or runs on those final moments you know that you have a special QB but you are wasting his talent with bad calls, i think Andrew is losing confidence because he blames himself of the loses and he is overthrowing sometimes or being inaccurate.

 

This is my first post i could be really wrong but i accept all the critics.  

BTW  I think Jon Gruden could resing ESPN if Grison/Irsay offer him to coach Luck.

 

Have a good day!

I don't know..But I Pep needs to go. 

[lollygagger8]

See, I'm okay with telegraphing the run, if you're still moving the ball. If you can line up in an obvious running situation and impose your will on the other team, you're okay. That's what the Pats did to us last year in the playoffs. If it works, there's no need for deception and misdirection.

I don't care to argue about it anymore, but if you (or the Colts) wanted to "impose your will" as you put it, then they would've run it 3x in a row instead of passing it on 3rd down.

We threw it because no will was being imposed.

[lollygagger8]

So re-examine those two drives, down and distance, time remaining, and tell me why there's an issue with the run/pass ratio.

I just said you were correct, and called you Sir and that's still not enough huh?

This guy.

[Superman]

I don't care to argue about it anymore, but if you (or the Colts) wanted to "impose your will" as you put it, then they would've run it 3x in a row instead of passing it on 3rd down.

We threw it because no will was being imposed.

 

I'm cool with that criticism. I think the offensive identity is in flux right now. The Broncos game was a mess, for several reasons, but in this game, the run game was working, and like I've said, I think we should have used it more in specific situations. I don't necessarily think we needed to run it on that 3rd down, because we ought to be able to pick up 3rd and 5 on Luck's arm. Either way, we didn't convert.

 

But that's a more specific criticism than "we need to stop trying to run the ball." 

[Superman]

I just said you were correct, and called you Sir and that's still not enough huh?

This guy.

 

LOL, I'm just saying, like I've said, I don't think the issue is whether we're running or passing. I think the biggest issue is that we need to execute better, particularly on 3rd down, particularly when we put the ball in Luck's hands. He's our best player, he's our primary playmaker, he's the future of the franchise. It's year three, he has to come through for us on 3rd down, especially 3rd and 5.

[Superman]

Didn't Pagano bring Hamilton to the Colts? How does that make him a good coach. Coaching cost us that game last night and Pagano has to take the ultimate blame.

 

Coaching didn't cost us the game last night.

[colts98]

They need a whole new coaching staff!! The team is good. The coaching is down right terrible!!

[Jason_]

They need a whole new coaching staff!! The team is good. The coaching is down right terrible!!

 

nope

[lollygagger8]

I'm cool with that criticism. I think the offensive identity is in flux right now. The Broncos game was a mess, for several reasons, but in this game, the run game was working, and like I've said, I think we should have used it more in specific situations. I don't necessarily think we needed to run it on that 3rd down, because we ought to be able to pick up 3rd and 5 on Luck's arm. Either way, we didn't convert.

But that's a more specific criticism than "we need to stop trying to run the ball."

I never said stop running the ball. I said throw out of the same formation because we were setting them up all night for it. Mix it up instead of playing Pep Warner football.

[Superman]

I never said stop running the ball. I said throw out of the same formation because we were setting them up all night for it. Mix it up instead of playing Pep Warner football.

 

Hmm, that's a clever pun.

 

To the "throw out of the same formation," that's why I asked you to be specific about what would have been better on the final two drives. No matter, though. I think the 2nd and 4 after a six yard run was the time for a play action pass, so I agree, to an extent. Overall, though, I would have been fine with continuing to run the ball, because overall, it was working. But again, I think the QB ought to be able to eat on 3rd and 5, consistently.

[Archangel]

Imo the team did a good job of using the run and pass in the first half and kept the eagles defense guessing as for the defense we did not shut them down but kept them out of the end zone basically bend but don't break Dungy style, should of went into the locker room at half time to make adjustments that were needed to win the game. But what I did observe in the 2nd half was their was no adjustments on defense or offense and pretty much stayed with the game plan from the first half. The eagles on the other hand did do some adjustments which in the end cost the colts the game. Should of put in some blitz packages together for the 2nd half, the offense went to the well to many times on the misdirection play when they should of done a couple of play action passes and or run to the strong side, Their was some plays in which Luck could of run to escape the rush and that would of slowed the pass rush down he did this last year against oakland when they rushed him on almost every down. He finally started using his check down players late in the game but this was already to late to make much of a difference. But what really got me was when the opposing coach makes a statement after the game and said after watching film on the colts all week they kinda figured out what the colts game plan would be so this tells me this team is pretty much predictable on the their schemes. But it has only been 2 games still a long season hope they can make some good adjustments and get a good win for  us and them.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Yeah, that's fair. I have no problem with that. It's just this dual personality from fans around here, where we want to be able to run, but then it's "why are we running so much?" 

 

I really don't care so much about running rather than passing, but if it is such an important part of the game plan, why not do it more often on 3rd down?  Especially if it is working or defense is defending the pass? I'm just looking for us to use something that is working at crucial times.

 

Because Peyton was always good on 3rd down %, and Luck under Arians had a very good 3rd down % himself,  I expected Pep's more efficient offense to maintain or improve on this.  I fell dramatically last year and this year hasn't improved my outlook.

 

I unofficially tracked our 3rd downs vs. the Eagles.  I counted 9 first half 3rd down opportunities, and 5 second half.  of those-

 

We attempted (only) one conversion on the ground, a 3rd and 1 - and it went for 29 yards.  100% conversion rate.

We attempted 10 passes on 3rd down.  We converted 3 of those 10. Horrible.  On one of those we went again on 4th down and got a TD.

Luck converted 2 of those 3rd downs with a hard count forcing neutral zone infractions.

Luck was short scrambling on a 3rd and 5, only getting 3 yards.

 

So passing for a first on 3rd down, we were only at 33% success rate before our last drive began.  30% after. Yet we ran TRich twice and threw on a 3rd and 5, which was well defended.

 

So overall, we converted a total of Five 3rd downs in 14 attempts.  A ho hum 36% overall and finished a dismal 30% passing.

 

I see very little 'clutch' or comeback in these numbers, and not very pleased about it at all.  My biggest peeve of Peps game plan.

[ColtsBlueFL]

How would that work?  Does Pep have to run every play call past Pagano before he calls it in to Luck?  BTW, those 2 runs at the end were NOT perfectly clearly bad calls.  The first play went for 6 yards.  The 2nd play, if I remember correctly, was an audible by Luck.  Going to watch the game again tonight to verify but nearly positive that it was.  Either way, they were still setup with a 3rd and 5 which is completely makeable.

Based upon my work above, I disagree with your claim.  it was much more likely to fail than convert, especially in an end game situation where the D leaves nothing in reserve.

[Superman]

Based upon my work above, I disagree with your claim.  it was much more likely to fail than convert, especially in an end game situation where the D leaves nothing in reserve.

 

The odds, based off that game, support your claim, but the odds typically favor an offense with a good QB in 3rd and 5. Problem is that Luck hasn't been a good QB so far. He has the special ability to make plays, but the routine -- like 3rd and 5, where you make your money -- has been lacking.

[ColtsBlueFL]

The odds, based off that game, support your claim, but the odds typically favor an offense with a good QB in 3rd and 5. Problem is that Luck hasn't been a good QB so far. He has the special ability to make plays, but the routine -- like 3rd and 5, where you make your money -- has been lacking.

 

I am thinking to myself, 'doesn't anybody track these results in real time?'  I knew we needed to do what Peyton is good at, staying out of third downs and using hurry up/no huddle to keep potential mismatches available. I would have to go back and see if something similar happened to Luck under Arians, if he stayed out of 3rd downs often enough that a 45-55% 3rd down conversion rate is more likely to result in a long TD drive or needed FG to seal or comeback for a W. 

[Superman]

I am thinking to myself, 'doesn't anybody track these results in real time?'  I knew we needed to do what Peyton is good at, staying out of third downs and using hurry up/no huddle to keep potential mismatches available. I would have to go back and see if something similar happened to Luck under Arians, if he stayed out of 3rd downs often enough that a 45-55% 3rd down conversion rate is more likely to result in a long TD drive or needed FG to seal or comeback for a W. 

 

There are win probability engines, but I don't know if there are third down probability engines that are updated in real time. That would be cool. Too bad I don't mess with or programming like that, or I'd whip one up real quick...

[ColtsBlueFL]

There are win probability engines, but I don't know if there are third down probability engines that are updated in real time. That would be cool. Too bad I don't mess with or programming like that, or I'd whip one up real quick...

That would a cool thing to run on a laptop while the game is ongoing. 

As for teams, they likely track this somehow.  Just have to do some quick math now and then.

[SOMDColtsfan]

When Irsay cleaned house he stated he wanted to "get this right" in hiring a new GM and coaches. Was Manusky getting it right? Arians serves 1 year as OC (which I understand he had a once in a lifetime offer but..) and leaves? Fire Pep and then have Luck start on and learn OC #3? Definitely not what I expected in "getting it right"..

[dw49]

Coaching didn't cost us the game last night.

 

 

There are some that disagree with that. Me... dunno. You do say players need to execute better in another thread. We don't execute and don't tackle very well. Some would say coaching has something to do with that.

 

I might ask if this is what everyone expected from the Pagano hire ? We had tons and tons of Irsay money to spend on free agents. That and 3 drafts latter , I truthfully expected more from a guy that was touted as a defensive "specialist. " I'm sure he has some influence with Grigson. Maybe a corner blitz or two last night ? You had a depleted O line with a QB that moves like a statue and zero sacks. What are your thoughts here ? Happy with Pagano ?  Grigson ? Ehh.. me .. I'm thinking it's only 2 games but so far I'm not too happy. 

[John Dee]

Jim Harbaugh is a FA next season...

 

Me personally ...   I would fire Pags in a heart beat if Jimbo would come here.  

 

IMO...    I think this is a real possibility.      Harbaugh will be in Indy or coaching Michigan next season.  

[Superman]

There are some that disagree with that. Me... dunno. You do say players need to execute better in another thread. We don't execute and don't tackle very well. Some would say coaching has something to do with that.

 

I might ask if this is what everyone expected from the Pagano hire ? We had tons and tons of Irsay money to spend on free agents. That and 3 drafts latter , I truthfully expected more from a guy that was touted as a defensive "specialist. " I'm sure he has some influence with Grigson. Maybe a corner blitz or two last night ? You had a depleted O line with a QB that moves like a statue and zero sacks. What are your thoughts here ? Happy with Pagano ?  Grigson ? Ehh.. me .. I'm thinking it's only 2 games but so far I'm not too happy. 

 

First, if we're going to say that player execution is a coaching issue, then EVERYTHING is a coaching issue. When the QB throws a pick, it's a coaching issue. Aside from injuries, there's nothing that we can't pin on the coaches. At a certain point, it's on the players to do their jobs better.

 

And really, through two games, our best player hasn't performed at the level we really need him to. He's left too many plays on the field. I don't think that's coaching. I think it's him not being on his game at the moment. 

 

Also, if we're talking about what we expected when we hired Pagano, I think we need to acknowledge that most people didn't expect two straight playoff appearances in the first two seasons. I think the quick success has accelerated expectations, and some are forgetting that this team was a long way away from real contention when Pagano and Grigson were hired.

 

However, Gruden wrote some notes before the game yesterday, and one question he had was 'where are the young defensive players that we're supposed to be building our championship caliber defense around?' That's a legitimate question, and one that I asked after the draft this year. So far, we've spent a 2nd on Davis, which is good, and a first on Werner, and all the rest of our picks through the first four rounds have been offensive guys (we gave up a 2014 4th to move up in 2013 for Hughes, but he's done little to warrant being talked about so far). That's not what I envisioned when we hired Pagano, but we have drafted offensive playmakers, and those guys have helped us get into the playoffs the past two years.

 

We can talk about specific play calls, and even some failures schematically through two games. I'm not washing the hands of the coaching staff altogether. I'm just saying that it's missing the mark to blame the coaching for yesterday's loss.

 

Despite some of the coaching decisions that I disagree with, A) our offense failed on two straight third down opportunities, and the plays were there to be made. B) We couldn't rush the passer, and that's mostly because one of the best pass rushers in the league isn't on the field for us, but we really should have had added some pass rush over the last two seasons, and we evidently haven't. We'll see what Werner and Newsome can do, but so far, not much. C) We got killed by two bad officiating decisions. We could have had the game, if not for those three things, IMO.

[DrLuck]

After 2 consecutive winning season and 2 trips to PO with a brand new team we stand at 0-2. It looks pretty bad, but calling for HC's head?

Nope, it is insane to be thinking of a new HC... I gues memories of infamous 2-14 season is fading too fast.

I disagree with you, I can't help feel like we have managed these accomplishments despite the coaching staff and not because of them. Pagano is not a good a leader, he doesn't hold players accountable for poor play (Center all last year, T Rich fumbling twice at key moments and not being yanked) and he does not correct the assistant coaches when they repeat the same mistakes every game. Pep repeatedly calls plays that don't fit our particular talents at all, runs up the middle any time the I formation is out there, and much more. The pattern is he does this until we get down multiple scores and then we take off when he HAS NO CHOICE but to throw. It's an almost weekly spectacle and it's still happening. Manusky gets burnt by giving linebackers coverage assignments against playets they have no chance against, and can't dial up decent blitz packages when we have no pass rush. When these mistakes continue to repeat themselves it becomes an issue with the HC, it's his job to make sure everyone is accountable for their performance (good or bad) and he has repeatedly not done that adequately.

[Superman]

Rewatching the game now, just wanted to point out that all three TD passes were play action. Only on the second one did Luck actually fake the handoff, but his pivot on the other two had the same affect on the defense as an actual play fake would. I'm fine with that. I don't need a drawn out play fake every time, just the action.

[John Dee]

I think the Colts are as good as they will ever get under Pags.        He is a career secondary coach.       One year as a DC in Balt.       He is just average.     I want ELITE.         I want Irsay to put he full court press on Jimbo Harbaugh next season.   

 

Pags is good, but all the SLOW starts, conservative play calling, and stubbornness / accountability to certain players just stinks of AVERAGE to me.      A great HC has to be flexable.    Chuck seems to think if he wills it it will come.

 

Take away Andrew Luck's what?    9 fourth Q comebacks and Chuck is already gone.   Simply reality.

 

I just don't get that "winning" vibe with Pag's and Pep...          Manusky?   This D has NOT ONE play maker on it.    He is in a hopeless spot.

[dw49]

First, if we're going to say that player execution is a coaching issue, then EVERYTHING is a coaching issue. When the QB throws a pick, it's a coaching issue. Aside from injuries, there's nothing that we can't pin on the coaches. At a certain point, it's on the players to do their jobs better.

 

And really, through two games, our best player hasn't performed at the level we really need him to. He's left too many plays on the field. I don't think that's coaching. I think it's him not being on his game at the moment. 

 

Also, if we're talking about what we expected when we hired Pagano, I think we need to acknowledge that most people didn't expect two straight playoff appearances in the first two seasons. I think the quick success has accelerated expectations, and some are forgetting that this team was a long way away from real contention when Pagano and Grigson were hired.

 

However, Gruden wrote some notes before the game yesterday, and one question he had was 'where are the young defensive players that we're supposed to be building our championship caliber defense around?' That's a legitimate question, and one that I asked after the draft this year. So far, we've spent a 2nd on Davis, which is good, and a first on Werner, and all the rest of our picks through the first four rounds have been offensive guys (we gave up a 2014 4th to move up in 2013 for Hughes, but he's done little to warrant being talked about so far). That's not what I envisioned when we hired Pagano, but we have drafted offensive playmakers, and those guys have helped us get into the playoffs the past two years.

 

We can talk about specific play calls, and even some failures schematically through two games. I'm not washing the hands of the coaching staff altogether. I'm just saying that it's missing the mark to blame the coaching for yesterday's loss.

 

Despite some of the coaching decisions that I disagree with, A) our offense failed on two straight third down opportunities, and the plays were there to be made. B) We couldn't rush the passer, and that's mostly because one of the best pass rushers in the league isn't on the field for us, but we really should have had added some pass rush over the last two seasons, and we evidently haven't. We'll see what Werner and Newsome can do, but so far, not much. C) We got killed by two bad officiating decisions. We could have had the game, if not for those three things, IMO.

 

 

When you don't tackle and don't execute , IMO it can be somewhat of a coaching issue. Surprised you think not... interesting.  If you have a talented roster and they don't tackle or execute , what usually takes place ? When you don't blame a coaching staff is when you don't have the talent ... right ? But like I said , it only 2 games and I'm not passing judgement on anyone. Just a little disappointed to see this vanilla defense that tackles like a bunch of girls when you hired a guy like Pagano. I also don't give Grigson a pass because he lost a guy that will be 34 years old in a few months. This pass rush thus far is ridiculous. You are correct on the defensive draft picks. Not much there but he did spend a few bucks on the D.

 

1) Franklin

2) Tolar

3) Butler

4) Landry

5) RJF

6) Waldron

7) Sidbury

8) Jackson

9) Jones

10) Adams

11) Davis as you mention

 

I see 7 contracts that were doled out that players were give starter money. Just food for thought...

[John Dee]

If the Eagles were a "average" red zone team Indy is down big at halftime.

 

Philly is not a strong team IMO...   their OL was in worse shape than ours and Indy's D could not get to Foles when it counted.     Watch out next week with Jax.

 

Rewatching the game now, just wanted to point out that all three TD passes were play action. Only on the second one did Luck actually fake the handoff, but his pivot on the other two had the same affect on the defense as an actual play fake would. I'm fine with that. I don't need a drawn out play fake every time, just the action.

[Superman]

When you don't tackle and don't execute , IMO it can be somewhat of a coaching issue. Surprised you think not... interesting.  If you have a talented roster and they don't tackle or execute , what usually takes place ? When you don't blame a coaching staff is when you don't have the talent ... right ? But like I said , it only 2 games and I'm not passing judgement on anyone. Just a little disappointed to see this vanilla defense that tackles like a bunch of girls when you hired a guy like Pagano. I also don't give Grigson a pass because he lost a guy that will be 34 years old in a few months. This pass rush thus far is ridiculous. You are correct on the defensive draft picks. Not much there but he did spend a few bucks on the D.

 

1) Franklin

2) Tolar

3) Butler

4) Landry

5) RJF

6) Waldron

7) Sidbury

8) Jackson

9) Jones

10) Adams

11) Davis as you mention

 

I see 7 contracts that were doled out that players were give starter money. Just food for thought...

 

I get what you're saying. When we talk about coaching costing us a game, aren't we usually talking about in-game decisions? 

 

I don't give anyone a pass because of Mathis being gone. Just saying that his absence wasn't foreseeable, I don't think, and it's the main reason we don't have a pass rush right now. Newsome is a potential pass rush threat, but he just played his second game (had a hurry, also). Werner is supposed to be doing more than he's done, but we've played two teams that do a good job of keeping pass rush at bay (especially after Philly gave up so much pressure in the opener; I'm sure that was a point of emphasis for them in practice this week). 

 

As for the veteran defensive guys that you listed, we could go through that list one by one if we wanted, but what it boils down to is that our defense has been built through free agency, and most of our starters are older guys on veteran level starters' contracts. We have some young DL through the draft, but we have zero drafted DBs on our roster. LBs are a mixed bag, but the only young playmaker we have is Freeman. And he wasn't drafted. Werner and Newsome might be around for awhile, but we're a ways away from being able to rely on them to help us win games.

 

I'm fine with the players we've drafted, for the most part, but there's no question that we've spent more draft resources on the offensive side of the ball. I think that has to change in 2015. We have a young OL that can grow together, we have some young receiving options, we obviously have a QB. We need some young playmakers on defense that can grow together. 

[Superman]

If the Eagles were a "average" red zone team Indy is down big at halftime.

 

Philly is not a strong team IMO...   their OL was in worse shape than ours and Indy's D could not get to Foles when it counted.     Watch out next week with Jax.

 

I disagree. Our defense played really well most of the game, got stops in short yardage (which we couldn't do last week), penetrated the backfield against the run, tackled well, except for a few plays (but think about Butler's tackle on McCoy on third down at the five, to hold to a FG), and played good coverage. I think our defense deserves credit for the red zone stops last night.

 

If we could combine the second half against Denver and the first half last night, we'd be looking at a 13 point effort. Still not a lot of QB pressure, but we're going to have to figure something out there.

[Andy]

Listen, I don't like the way the Colts have played in the first two games. It's one half football (and it was like that a bit of last year too), but the fact of the matter is, the Colts have been to the playoffs the last two years and even got a win in the playoffs. They are way ahead of schedule in this Pagano era, so even thinking of getting rid of him is a dumb idea.

 

A big thumbs down to this thread.

[John Dee]

But we can't ...  

 

and the team cannot.    There is something amiss with this team.   They NEVER fire on all cylinders for an entire game.   SF was the last one.   

 

I really like some of this team's options on O but running Jumbo formations and using D Allen as a "blocker' and Fleener on the field with a COMBINED 1 TARGET?      

 

It was nice to see some success with the run game.....  but let's face it...   This team will sink or swim with AL making it happen.  

 

JMO...   I would hate to see AL have to navigate through 5 or 6 years of Pags and Pep...    It is college football.      If they insist on it then put Luck on the move.   

 

IDK

I disagree. Our defense played really well most of the game, got stops in short yardage (which we couldn't do last week), penetrated the backfield against the run, tackled well, except for a few plays (but think about Butler's tackle on McCoy on third down at the five, to hold to a FG), and played good coverage. I think our defense deserves credit for the red zone stops last night.

 

If we could combine the second half against Denver and the first half last night, we'd be looking at a 13 point effort. Still not a lot of QB pressure, but we're going to have to figure something out there.