Indy Star: Richardson Deal forces Colts to Re-Evaluate Draft Talent

[BOTT]

There can only be one rush backer on the field in our scheme so it's irrelevant unless the Sam has a designed blitz so how are we creating more pass rush? That's like saying we need another qb because he will score more tds causing us to win games. It doesn't matter if there's only one on the field. If we have a rush backer he has to take Mathis spot on the field so no thank u. Now if the pass rusherer in question doesn't play the will olber position (a de or TNT or dt that can rush) or a ilber with rushing capability yeah that's great it creates more pass rush, but to just get another will to rush is pointless when we have way more pressing holes to fill than Mathiss backups backup in the draft and fa

That's funny, I saw Mathis and Werner playing DE at the same time in a 4 man front plenty of times. And I never said it had to be another OLB.

[Dustin]

I think that's just passing downs he was in not total passing downs and yeah he probably did but usually in passing downs we aren't going to have 4 lbers up right one usually iouts his hand in the ground. When we play nickel who is our other upright lber besides freeman?

 

Off of the top of my head on passing downs the front 7 is:

 

Mathis Redding RJF Werner (not sure the exact order)

 

           Freeman   Walden.

 

We'll usually rush 5 with either Freeman or Walden blitzing (mostly Walden)

[Naptown Lifer]

That's funny, I saw Mathis and Werner playing DE at the same time in a 4 man front plenty of times

Alright man you're right we HAVE to have another rush lber so we can put 4 on the field at a time

Most pressing need gotcha

[BOTT]

Alright man you're right we HAVE to have another rush lber so we can put 4 on the field at a time

Most pressing need gotcha

Right on, because that is exactly what I said ......EXACTLY!! Bravo to you.

[Colts_Fan12]

Having more than one pass rusher would cause more interceptions than a new safety

I think Werner will be better in year 2 and still have Mathis

[Naptown Lifer]

Off of the top of my head on passing downs the front 7 is:

 

Mathis Redding RJF Werner (not sure the exact order)

 

           Freeman   Walden.

 

We'll usually rush 5 with either Freeman or Walden blitzing (mostly Walden)

Sounds about right thanks I thought that mcnary and the other ilbers started taking over as the rush backer in those situations towards the end of the season though? Mcnary seemed pretty good. I just think if you're set on getting a better pass rush great but there's better ways of addressing it while adding depth to other positions besides having a Baller olbers core and a bunch of weak mikes and dlinemen who can't rush and are you sure redding wasn't in the rotation I know obviously it changes and you were just saying the majority of the time it's these people but I just remembered redding, he'd be better than rug at rushing I think

[BOTT]

Walden rushed the passer 75% of the time on passing plays last season. We need a guy who can rush from the Sam LB spot as well. Ideally you'd grab a guy like Brian Orakpo who can do both, but I don't see us spending much on another OLB with Walden and Werner on the roster. So we're stuck with Walden for another season at least and hope in the meantime that Werner has gained some strength and learned some pass rush moves.

I don't see the Colts picking up another OLB in FA, but drafting someone like Marcus Smith would be ideal.

[Naptown Lifer]

Right on, because that is exactly what I said ......EXACTLY!! Bravo to you.

Well whenever I suggested there were more pressing needs you kept going back to why we had to have one so I assumed you thought It was our most pressing need

[Defjamz26]

I wanna sign Byrd then draft a CB to replace Toler

But ik it won't happen I don't think the colts ever want a real ball hawk S

Which is terrible thinking. Safety help is the one thing lacking. How often do you see our safety's running over and helping the corners?

[BOTT]

Well whenever I suggested there were more pressing needs you kept going back to why we had to have one so I assumed you thought It was our most pressing need

If you go back to my first post in the thread I simply stated it was still a need. Not the most pressing, but still a need.

[Naptown Lifer]

If you go back to my first post in the thread I simply stated it was still a need. Not the most pressing, but still a need.

You're right my bad man. I just feel like as fans we want every single position to dominate and have the best players even as backups without being realistic and I jumped the gun on you feeling like you were doing that, but like you stated we have more pressing needs. My apologies

[Colts_Fan12]

Which is terrible thinking. Safety help is the one thing lacking. How often do you see our safety's running over and helping the corners?

Would be awesome to have Byrd who can get an INT out of nowhere and IMO we could draft a CB and get the same production as Toler more then likely better

[rock8591]

Hard to say if Richardson trade has been bad or not.

 

Sure, he may not be worth a 3rd pick in the NFL draft, butt there's no guarantee that our 1st rounder to the Browns would be great either. As much as it may be another Deandre Hopkins, Bob Sanders, or Clay Matthews, it may also be a Tony Ugoh, Quinn Pitcock, or Jamaal Anderson.

[BOTT]

You're right my bad man. I just feel like as fans we want every single position to dominate and have the best players even as backups without being realistic and I jumped the gun on you feeling like you were doing that, but like you stated we have more pressing needs. My apologies

No biggie

[Superman]

Off of the top of my head on passing downs the front 7 is:

 

Mathis Redding RJF Werner (not sure the exact order)

 

           Freeman   Walden.

 

We'll usually rush 5 with either Freeman or Walden blitzing (mostly Walden)

 

I disagree. I think we very rarely used Mathis, Walden and Werner on the field at the same time. It was more like Mathis/Werner and Werner/Walden on the outside, with Redding and RJF in the middle. Then Freeman and another ILB (Sheppard, Angerer, Conner, McNary). 

[Dustin]

I disagree. I think we very rarely used Mathis, Walden and Werner on the field at the same time. It was more like Mathis/Werner and Werner/Walden on the outside, with Redding and RJF in the middle. Then Freeman and another ILB (Sheppard, Angerer, Conner, McNary). 

 

It's possible (and likely) I'm remembering wrong.

[Superman]

Hard to say if Richardson trade has been bad or not.

 

Sure, he may not be worth a 3rd pick in the NFL draft, butt there's no guarantee that our 1st rounder to the Browns would be great either. As much as it may be another Deandre Hopkins, Bob Sanders, or Clay Matthews, it may also be a Tony Ugoh, Quinn Pitcock, or Jamaal Anderson.

 

Sorry, but that's not the way it works. (Ugoh was a second rounder, and Pitcock was a 3rd rounder, by the way.)

 

When you trade a first round pick, you're giving up your fair shot at drafting a top notch player. Draft picks don't come with a guarantee, even in the first round, but your odds are greater. Not to mention that the more draft picks you have, the greater your chance is of adding a really good player to your team. So when you trade any pick for a player that performs as poorly as Richardson did, it's really not a good deal. When you trade your best pick, it's even worse.

 

The Richardson trade might not look as completely lopsided a year from now, but it will never look good from the Colts perspective.

[Defjamz26]

Hard to say if Richardson trade has been bad or not.

 

Sure, he may not be worth a 3rd pick in the NFL draft, butt there's no guarantee that our 1st rounder to the Browns would be great either. As much as it may be another Deandre Hopkins, Bob Sanders, or Clay Matthews, it may also be a Tony Ugoh, Quinn Pitcock, or Jamaal Anderson.

The way I think about it is like this. If any of the top RB prospects of this draft come out and out perform him, then it's safe to say the trade was terrible. But Richardson may very well have been the worst RB in his class. We forget that Ballard was drafted 4 rounds later and only finished 100 or so yards short of his rookie total with less starts and less snaps.

 

Or to put in into perspective another way. Compare whatever RB is taken first to Trent and that player is essentially who we traded away for Trent. Or whatever player the Browns select with our pick.

[Creamybutterhands]

Richardson will do great this season. Stop listening to critics. The guy was a monster for the crimson tide. He found out he got traded week two on his radio. The move was dramatic and unexpected. Then he was instantly asked to produce and be a number one back with an Oline that is no where near the caliber of cleveland, with an oline that he isn't familar with, and with a scheme and playbook he doesn't know. When I watched Richardson all I saw was good things. 1.) I saw him hold Navrro Bowman up and block him for atleast 3 secs. 2.) Everytime he was asked to get 1 yard on a crucial moment he did. If he wouldnt of gotten that final first down in the broncos game who knows if we would of had to punt and give manning the ball back. 3.) He was hit behind the line before he even got the ball alot. 4.) His hand our outstanding for a RB perspective I would say he has top 5 receiving hands in the backfield. 5.) When he finally didn't get hit right away in the backfield, he was always falling forward and pushing people off of him. Give him a whole offseason with Hamliton and next year. I predict he will be top 3 in rushing yards. Top 3 in rushing tds. Before we had our rb depth go down we were a top 3 team in rushing. Then we had to change our format of the game.

 

As far as depth in the draft the seahawks as much as I hate that team are living proof that starters are in everyround. Russel Wilson round 3, Richard Sherman round 5, and alot of other players in round 3 or later. TY hilton was a round 3 wr or did everyone forget? Next week at the combine watch David Yankey (guard stanford). This guy is a top interior lineman not projected to go until atleast the late 2nd high 3rd. I would keep my eye on all the lineman though as im sure we will atleast draft a guard and a center. As improving our interior line is gonna be a huge factor. A reciever to watch out for that we might get in the 5th or 6th round who has fallen far in terms of talent/projection. TJ Jones (Notre Damn). The colts love fast wideouts with hands they always have. Jones is 5'11 should run a good 40 time. This kid has hands and can run great routes. He would be a perfect wr to groom to help fill waynes shoes. A combanation of Hilton Rodgers Jones with Allen and Fleener at TE would be a deadly recieving crew. 

[Dark Superman]

We feed an OLB that's an instant starter opposite of Mathis.. I'm not sure what you do with Walden if you make this move, since he's making starter money. But I would feel pretty good about having Walden and a improved Werner coming off the bench.

[sweetsurrender]

I am dreading when the Colts #1 pick comes up and the players that are still on the board that we *could* have had. Nothing we can do but it will keep coming up over and over. Grig really needs to have a good draft.

[Defjamz26]

And I can't see us getting a line man. The Colts are not starting a rookie lineman. If we get one, it'll be later on for depth. We can get a center from FA. Everything else on the line is fine

 

I am dreading when the Colts #1 pick comes up and the players that are still on the board that we *could* have had. Nothing we can do but it will keep coming up over and over. Grig really needs to have a good draft.

 

And I'm convinced he'll just trade up and get a bunch of good players. Our 6th and 7th round picks are probably gone. And maybe a future 2015 pick. I'm hoping he'll get 5 starters.

[BOTT]

I am dreading when the Colts #1 pick comes up and the players that are still on the board that we *could* have had. Nothing we can do but it will keep coming up over and over. Grig really needs to have a good draft.

I will have my barf bag ready

[Defjamz26]

I will have my barf bag ready

 

I'm hoping they take someone who is overrated, like Travis Benjamin.

[coltsfanatic24]

I thought we should have drafted Xavier Rhodes last year because he had the rare size, speed, press ability and he fit the defensive scheme. I still like Werner and think he could improve but he's not really a 3-4 OLB, more of a 4-3 DE. We could have had Rhodes then drafted a OLB in the 2nd round this year and there's a lot of great ones like Van Noy and Attaochu. Drafting Werner in the 1st i think will prevent Grigson from going after one in the draft because he invested so much in him even though we could use another one.

 

We feed an OLB that's an instant starter opposite of Mathis.. I'm not sure what you do with Walden if you make this move, since he's making starter money. But I would feel pretty good about having Walden and a improved Werner coming off the bench.

[Archer]

Wow.  I hardly agree with anyone's assessment of our needs.  I don't see WR as a need at all.  I would call safety as our #1 need.  I'm not really worried about ILB at all.  This is going to be a pretty interesting draft, seeing how there is such disagreement on what we need.

[Defjamz26]

Corner is the biggest need that needs to be fixed through the draft. No one should disagree with that. We've tried to pair all these different people with Davis, and it never works. Cassius Vaughn wasn't good, and neither was Toler this year.

 

Center is the biggest need overall, but not in terms of the draft. We can get one in FA.

 

WR is a luxury, but if a guy like Matthews or Robinson falls to us, we can't pass. No one knows how Reggie will be coming back. Besides, our receiving corps could use some size.

 

But if you talk in terms of the draft our needs are:

 

1. Cornerback

2. Safety

3.OLB

4. DT/DE

5. RB

[Dark Superman]

Wow.  I hardly agree with anyone's assessment of our needs.  I don't see WR as a need at all.  I would call safety as our #1 need.  I'm not really worried about ILB at all.  This is going to be a pretty interesting draft, seeing how there is such disagreement on what we need.

ILB is a solid need for this team.

[FalseStart]

2.  Da'Quan Jones DT or Travis Swanson C

3. Sam OLB or Henderson RT

5. Telvin Smith OLB or Hoffman WR

6. Sutton or Bullough OLB

7. Beau Allen DT

[Mameluc]

how is S not on that list?

 

also, i agree with BloodontheTracks.... OLB is a need. Or at least a 3-4 DE who cna rush the passer consistently.

[Defjamz26]

Only reasoning I can see for not including safety is because it's a spot we've been used to seeing mediocre production from. It's almost as if it's a position we don't seem to value.

[Tracy Denton]

Sorry, but that's not the way it works. (Ugoh was a second rounder, and Pitcock was a 3rd rounder, by the way.)

 

When you trade a first round pick, you're giving up your fair shot at drafting a top notch player. Draft picks don't come with a guarantee, even in the first round, but your odds are greater. Not to mention that the more draft picks you have, the greater your chance is of adding a really good player to your team. So when you trade any pick for a player that performs as poorly as Richardson did, it's really not a good deal. When you trade your best pick, it's even worse.

 

The Richardson trade might not look as completely lopsided a year from now, but it will never look good from the Colts perspective.

Actually, the Colts traded the 2008 first round pick to move up and get Ugoh in the 2nd round of the 2007 draft.

[Superman]

Actually, the Colts traded the 2008 first round pick to move up and get Ugoh in the 2nd round of the 2007 draft.

Ugoh was picked in the 2nd round. That makes him a 2nd round pick.

[Tracy Denton]

Ugoh was picked in the 2nd round. That makes him a 2nd round pick.

Yes, Colt's traded a first round pick for a second round pick.