Don't Replace Him, Surround Him With Better Players

[chad hugo]

i just dont get it. Almost everybody is hoping we go 0-18 in order to get luck, who IMO is still an unproven and raw college QB. Sure he's good, but thats only at a collegial level. Scouts have called him the next big thing or the next manning but that has also been said about other number 1 picks ( ryan leaf, alex smith, *carson palmer *hes mediocre* etc )

What we need to do is draft defensive players. Once peyton comes back , our offense will be the same as it was 2 years ago but sadly i cannot say the same for our defense. If wayne is not back, then we have collie who can carry the load, maybe garcon can improve his catching , if not then there are some very good receivers in this upcoming draft. BUT this all starts up from the FO...peyton built this stadium, he IS the team, the least they can do is give him one more ring!

Edited October 31, 2011 by chad hugo

[CR91]

this has been discussed to death. we have 4 years left with peyton. people he will not be around forever. we have a perfect opportunity to continue our success for the next 10-15 years. why draft a defensive player when hes gonna be in the same lame defensive philosophy

Edited October 31, 2011 by coltsrule91

[presto123]

Well QB is by far the most important position and in the near future even IF Peyton comes back healthy we will still need our future at QB. Peyton is nearing the finish line regardless. How is getting even more defensive picks going to help unless we first change our scheme and second get a new coordinator? FO should be embarrased that our defense has been bad for so long and they can't fix it. This guru that is supposedly Bill Polian.....I just don't see it. What will it take to get changes all the way up?

[presto123]

this has been discussed to death. we have 4 years left with peyton. people he will not be around forever. we have a perfect opportunity to continue our success for the next 10-15 years. why draft a defensive player when hes gonna be in the same lame defensive philosophy

That's exactly what I just said:)

[smittywerb]

i just dont get it. Almost everybody is hoping we go 0-18 in order to get luck, who IMO is still an unproven and raw college QB. Sure he's good, but thats only at a collegial level. Scouts have called him the next big thing or the next manning but that has also been said about other number 1 picks ( ryan leaf, alex smith, *carson palmer *hes mediocre* etc )

What we need to do is draft defensive players. Once peyton comes back , our offense will be the same as it was 2 years ago but sadly i cannot say the same for our defense. If wayne is not back, then we have collie who can carry the load, maybe garcon can improve his catching , if not then there are some very good receivers in this upcoming draft. BUT this all starts up from the FO...peyton built this stadium, he IS the team, the least they can do is give him one more ring!

NEVER heard Alex Smith nor Carson Palmer be called the next big thing. Yes, people have said they will be good coming out but that is it. And truthfully, they were right. Carson Palmer led the Bengals to a couple successful seasons while he was there (until his little drama act) and Alex Smith has finally blossomed once a good HC was put in place who knew how to use his strengths.

Now Ryan Leaf SMH. I hate when people bring him up in this discussion because EVERYONE knew Ryan Leaf was a *. In a draft interview, he said he would go to Vegas and gamble his money after the draft day (which he did). He then proceeded to show up to the first practice late and it went downhill from there. I don't think Luck will follow in his footsteps.

Onto the argument, I have nothing more to say about it. As said before, it has been discussed MANY times and it seems both sides are not budging. Not saying that neither side is wrong but the discussion is pretty much at a stand still with people going back and forth.

[Malakai432]

I would only want them to not take Luck if they could rip a team off. For instance 3 first rounders if that's even possible. Watching that Stanford USC game the other day, this Luck kid is definitely something special and far the best QB in college. Yes Landry is good but he's not even close to Lucks caliber. Miami is really working to compete with the Colts for Luck though.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Malakai432

[CjMcGirt23]

Why not take Luck and get our next franchise QB for the next 12-15 years. I hate when people say surround Peyton with more talent, it's one pick. It's not like the commish is gonna walk up to the podium draft day and say "With there 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, AND 7th round pick the Indianapolis Colts select...Andrew Luck. There's not even a talent on defense that's worth the 1st pick overall...Trade back you say? Well new argument. You say Luck isn't a sure thing, well no defensive player is either. Plus with the Polians drafting the last couple of years I wouldn't want them to pick a player besides Luck in the first round. Don't say draft a CB with a 1st round pick either because with our system that would be a waste of a pick(no we're not gonna change our system, its been here for years and it's staying here for years)(only CB I see worthy of drafting early for US is Janoris Jenkins who has tremendous ball skills and loves to read QBs, so he would excel in our zone.)

Edited October 31, 2011 by CjMcGirt23

[England Colt]

If Manning is back it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Pollians passed on Andrew Luck and drafted the likes of Blackmon, Toon or Broyles for Peyton to throw to!

I hope I'm wrong, but I find it hard to trust them to make the correct decisions in the draft!

[GoGoColts]

A lot of these replacement discussions assume that Peyton won't be healthy. My inclination is to build the offensive line into an all-pro unit to protect Peyton if he seems healthy going forward to keep him that way. The reality is that we have to spend a first round pick on a QB soon and we can't really make these decisions without the medical information on Peyton.

[GoDeep]

QB play is one of the most important factors in the NFL today.

Healthy or not, we shouldn't be in this position again, with the opportunity to draft such a highly rated QB. If we do, indeed, get the 1st pick, it will be time for Luck to be a Colt.

Edited October 31, 2011 by GoDeep

[04DarkShadowGT]

If Manning is back it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Pollians passed on Andrew Luck and drafted the likes of Blackmon, Toon or Broyles for Peyton to throw to!

I hope I'm wrong, but I find it hard to trust them to make the correct decisions in the draft!

That is not even a possibility imo, the #1 pick is worth too much. Now that the salaries are in check, if they don't want Luck, they could trade that pick for another teams 1st rd pick and a bunch more stuff. Those guys will be around a while, they aren't all going to be gone in the first 10 picks.

I say if you have the #1 pick, take Luck. He will cost you about the same as Collins did this year if we are comparing to what Newton got last draft. We still have the rest of the draft to help on defense.

But if someone is willing to throw the kitchen sink at the Colts for the #1 pick, think about it. Barkley looked pretty good in that USC/Stanford game too. If you can get him with another teams 1st rd pick and pick up either players or a handful of other picks, do it.

[England Colt]

That is not even a possibility imo, the #1 pick is worth too much. Now that the salaries are in check, if they don't want Luck, they could trade that pick for another teams 1st rd pick and a bunch more stuff. Those guys will be around a while, they aren't all going to be gone in the first 10 picks.

I say if you have the #1 pick, take Luck. He will cost you about the same as Collins did this year if we are comparing to what Newton got last draft. We still have the rest of the draft to help on defense.

But if someone is willing to throw the kitchen sink at the Colts for the #1 pick, think about it. Barkley looked pretty good in that USC/Stanford game too. If you can get him with another teams 1st rd pick and pick up either players or a handful of other picks, do it.

Agree with you about trading potentially. I actually think this is an excellent class of Quarterbacks this year. I'd be happy with Barkley, Jones or Moore!

[Fatboyslim11]

i just dont get it. Almost everybody is hoping we go 0-18 in order to get luck, who IMO is still an unproven and raw college QB. Sure he's good, but thats only at a collegial level. Scouts have called him the next big thing or the next manning but that has also been said about other number 1 picks ( ryan leaf, alex smith, *carson palmer *hes mediocre* etc )

What we need to do is draft defensive players. Once peyton comes back , our offense will be the same as it was 2 years ago but sadly i cannot say the same for our defense. If wayne is not back, then we have collie who can carry the load, maybe garcon can improve his catching , if not then there are some very good receivers in this upcoming draft. BUT this all starts up from the FO...peyton built this stadium, he IS the team, the least they can do is give him one more ring!

That is a lot of "ifs" and "buts". The whole team, including the coaching and management, has been exposed as incompetent. I have followed Colts football for the past 40+ years and count this team as one of the most hapless Colts teams of all time. When/if Manning returns he will make some difference, but the offense is too broken now for one player, even Manning, to fix and I doubt the team under the current conditions will ever return to the 10-12 wins a (regular season - we usually suck in the playoffs even with Manning and a full, healthy roster) season of years past. I believe it is Reggie's last year with the team and I would not be surprised to see Dallas Clark exit. Collie has potential which means he has not done it yet. Let's not pre-ordain him until he actually performs.

We have historically poor special teams, defense and the most incompetent and inept coaching staff in the league. The front office has failed to deliver players that can win (regular season, playoffs and Super Bowl) in the NFL. Our mighty midgets just are talented enough to win in the NFL.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Fatboyslim11

[JoKeR]

Luck isn't raw in anyway, his skills are very developed.

The kid just doesn't have any holes in his game.

P.s. Perhaps the Colts should take some of Stanford's O-line as well.

[dn4192]

i just dont get it. Almost everybody is hoping we go 0-18 in order to get luck, who IMO is still an unproven and raw college QB. Sure he's good, but thats only at a collegial level. Scouts have called him the next big thing or the next manning but that has also been said about other number 1 picks ( ryan leaf, alex smith, *carson palmer *hes mediocre* etc )

What we need to do is draft defensive players. Once peyton comes back , our offense will be the same as it was 2 years ago but sadly i cannot say the same for our defense. If wayne is not back, then we have collie who can carry the load, maybe garcon can improve his catching , if not then there are some very good receivers in this upcoming draft. BUT this all starts up from the FO...peyton built this stadium, he IS the team, the least they can do is give him one more ring!

So at what point do you begin looking past the Manning era?

[Peyton and Eli fan]

With all of these rookies starting and playing well, do you think Luck is going to be content to sit back and learn from Peyton for 4 years? You think Peyton is going to be happy having competition looking over his shoulder? Everyone who wants Luck is just begging for a soap opera in Indy.

[ruksak]

Why is it that people don't understand we could draft Luck AND surround Manning with talent? If we had the #1 overall pick, that means we have the 33rd and 65th picks, which are great picks that always offer a bevy of talent to choose from.

[ruksak]

With all of these rookies starting and playing well, do you think Luck is going to be content to sit back and learn from Peyton for 4 years? You think Peyton is going to be happy having competition looking over his shoulder? Everyone who wants Luck is just begging for a soap opera in Indy.

Competition brings out the best in professionals like Manning. I'm sure it will become apparent during his pre-draft interviews if Luck will be problematic in the purposed role he will play were we to draft him. If he presents himself as a problem in backing Manning and inheriting his throne, then we don't pick him.

[smittywerb]

Why is it that people don't understand we could draft Luck AND surround Manning with talent? If we had the #1 overall pick, that means we have the 33rd and 65th picks, which are great picks that always offer a bevy of talent to choose from.

Everytime I bring this up, no one has an argument for it.

[ruksak]

Everytime I bring this up, no one has an argument for it.

People in Indy should know better than anyone. There is a difference between great players and unique players. I don't follow college much, but I have watched Luck because of the hype. I would be the first one to proclaim him the subject of hyperbole (as in Tebow) if I thought that was the case.

That kid looks freakishly talented, aware, smart, athletic......unique. You don't pass on that.

Edited October 31, 2011 by ruksak

[rockywoj]

A lot of these replacement discussions assume that Peyton won't be healthy. My inclination is to build the offensive line into an all-pro unit to protect Peyton if he seems healthy going forward to keep him that way. The reality is that we have to spend a first round pick on a QB soon and we can't really make these decisions without the medical information on Peyton.

I definitely agree with the bolded part. Success is born out of the trenches and whether it be Manning, Luck, or somebody else, having a great offensive line will allow success to follow in all other areas of the offense. With Castonzo and Ijilana taken this past year, the Colts have the beginning of a very good OL. They need another couple of key puzzle pieces added still, though. Whether that be an OG like DeCastro or by adding another top notch OT (like Kalil, thus moving Ijilana to OG, a position where a lot of talent evaluators project Ijilana as being best suited) is a matter of opinion, I suppose, but I think further improvement in the OL remains a key immediate need.

Another immediate need is, obviously, the defensive secondary (CB & SS). When Nevis returns, I don't really see the DL (DT) being as big of an immediate need as a lot of people around here seem to. I think that Nevis with Moala and Johnson makes for a rather solid DL Interior. That's not saying that I would be averse to adding another stellar DT prospect, though, for like the OL is to the offense, a great DL makes for a great defense. If the Colts re-sign Wayne, as I suspect they will, then WR is not quite as big of a need as a lot perceive it to be, either. I mean, another great WR prospect definitely needs to be found soon, but re-signing Wayne (and Garcon) defers the immediacy of such a need.

Clearly, the Colts need a QB of the future as well. If Manning can come back and be himself for the next 3 or more years though, then I am not sold that THIS coming year is the year to make the move. Do we really think that Luck would be willing to sit for two to three years, even if it is behind the greatest QB of all-time? If he is, then fine, grab him, but if we think Manning has 3 or more elite years left (which I most certainly do), then getting a boat load in a trade for Luck seems like the way to go, to me.

Edited October 31, 2011 by rockywoj

[dn4192]

With all of these rookies starting and playing well, do you think Luck is going to be content to sit back and learn from Peyton for 4 years? You think Peyton is going to be happy having competition looking over his shoulder? Everyone who wants Luck is just begging for a soap opera in Indy.

Why do you think he would sit behind Peyton for 4 years? If he is ready to go in say 2014 (after 2 seasons) you put him in and play him and either trade Peyton, release Peyton or convince him to retire.

[CoachLite]

Everyone assumes we are going just going to pick Andrew Luck and either Manning or Luck with be our salvation. Remember John Elway? What if Luck says there is NO WAY he's going to play for the Indianapolis Colt's (just like Elway did in Baltimore), and demand to be traded? I mean with the way the Colt's are tanking now, and the performance of our coaching staff, what if Luck would adopt an "anywhere but Indy" attitude? Don't think it can't happen.

[ruksak]

I definitely agree with the bolded part. Success is born out of the trenches and whether it be Manning, Luck, or somebody else, having a great offensive line will allow success to follow in all other areas of the offense. With Castonzo and Ijilana taken this past year, the Colts have the beginning of a very good OL. They need another couple of key puzzle pieces added still, though. Whether that be an OG like DeCastro or by adding another stop notch OT (like Kalil) (thus moving Ijilana to OG, a position where a lot of talent evaluators project Ijilana as being best suited) is a matter of opinion, I suppose, but I think further improvement in the OL remains a key immediate need.

Another immediate need is, obviously, the defensive secondary (CB & SS). When Nevis returns, I don't really see the DL (DT) being as big of an immediate need as a lot of people around here seem to. I think that Nevis with Moala and Johnson makes for a rather solid DL Interior. That's not saying that I would be averse to adding another stellar DT prospect, though, for like the OL is to the offense, a great DL makes for a great defense.

Clearly, the Colts need a QB of the future as well. If Manning can come back and be himself for the next 3 or more years, I am not sold that THIS coming year is the year to make the move, though. Do we really think that Luck would be willing to sit for two to three years, even if it is behind the greatest QB of all-time? If he is, then fine, grab him, but if we think Manning had 3 or more years left, then getting a boat load in a trade for Luck seems like the way to go, to me.

O-lineman aren't like Skill players (RB, WR), they rarely get drafted and make a huge impact in year one. We have spent enough high end picks on O-line talent. Whatever supplement we add to our line needs to come from free-agency. We need known quantities not gambles on that line.

[JoKeR]

With all of these rookies starting and playing well, do you think Luck is going to be content to sit back and learn from Peyton for 4 years? You think Peyton is going to be happy having competition looking over his shoulder? Everyone who wants Luck is just begging for a soap opera in Indy.

The interview will sort out if he would be a problem.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Why do you think he would sit behind Peyton for 4 years? If he is ready to go in say 2014 (after 2 seasons) you put him in and play him and either trade Peyton, release Peyton or convince him to retire.

Which = messy soap opera.

[rockywoj]

O-lineman aren't like Skill players (RB, WR), they rarely get drafted and make a huge impact in year one. We have spent enough high end picks on O-line talent. Whatever supplement we add to our line needs to come from free-agency. We need known quantities not gambles on that line.

Free agency is certainly an option to further solidify the OL. In fact, this past year I advocated going out a breaking the bank for a top notch OG, several of whom were available. That being said, when you say they have spent enough picks, I see but only two recent picks that still hold a lot of promise. Castonzo should pan out and I am hopeful that Ijilana will as well. That's not enough, though. I think that in addition to Castonzo and Ijilana, the Colts are still one great OL stud away from having the pieces for a dominating offensive line. In the absence of free agency, then I think if you can grab another OL stud in the draft, you do it.

[CR91]

Which = messy soap opera.

i take it from your sn that your a peyton fan not a colts fan which mean you have no interest in the future of the colts, but instead just to see peyton play. peyton is not superman, hes not gonna last forever. at most we have peyton for 4 more years and then what? we would be in the same hole we're in right now. and as for surrounding peyton with talent we can do that with the other picks we have or free agency.

Edited October 31, 2011 by coltsrule91

[coltfaninnewyork]

Did anyone hear charlie casserly say if the colt's are in position to draft luck ,they will?

[dn4192]

Everyone assumes we are going just going to pick Andrew Luck and either Manning or Luck with be our salvation. Remember John Elway? What if Luck says there is NO WAY he's going to play for the Indianapolis Colt's (just like Elway did in Baltimore), and demand to be traded? I mean with the way the Colt's are tanking now, and the performance of our coaching staff, what if Luck would adopt an "anywhere but Indy" attitude? Don't think it can't happen.

Can't happen. He can sit out a year I guess but unlike when the Colts drafted Elway, they are now in a much better position as an organization. Why do you think Luck wouldn't want to play here? Between us or Miami who do you believe has more long term upside?

[dn4192]

Which = messy soap opera.

so what? didn't seem to hurt GB or SF?

[FireJimCaldwell]

It all depends on Manning's health. If he can return for a number of years, then you auction off the draft pick to the team that gives you the best return(doesn't have to mean the most picks). You then address the QB position later in that draft, a future, draft, via free agency or trade when Manning retires. You can't count on getting lucky the way Green Bay did with Rodgers/Favre.

If Manning isn't healthy and retires, then you look at the offers from other teams but for the most part you pull the trigger on the Luck pick.

Luck actually has a year of eligibility left at Stanford so there is no guarantee he comes out to start with. His family has money, so he doesn't have to declare. He would have been #1 this year if he would have come out so that doesn't really have much to do with it.

Edited October 31, 2011 by firejimcaldwell

[04DarkShadowGT]

Which = messy soap opera.

You do what you have to do, it worked out pretty well for Green Bay. As much as it sucks, but there comes a time when you need to move on from any player, even Peyton Manning. I am not saying that is now, 2 years, or even 4 years. But you play whoever gives you the best chance to win. If that is a different QB, so be it.

BUT if you have the chance to draft Luck you do it, you either draft him or trade him and keep him or trade that spot for a ton. But if he is as good as advertised it is certainly in the best interest of the long term success of the franchise to take him.

Irsay may be quirky but they arent dumb, he understands there is life after Manning, at least its his job to make sure there is. If you do something that can position your franchise for the next 10-15 years, you make that move.

Edited October 31, 2011 by 04DarkShadowGT

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Well, I admit I'm looking at it from the perspective of a fan of Peyton Manning's rather than as a Colts' fan.

[super8todd]

...peyton built this stadium, he IS the team, the least they can do is give him one more ring!

the tax-payers built this stadium. And realistically, if he wants another ring we are going to have to do him a favor and trade him to a better team. We are going to have to rebuild to make this stadium and future worthwhile.

[ruksak]

the tax-payers built this stadium. And realistically, if he wants another ring we are going to have to do him a favor and trade him to a better team. We are going to have to rebuild to make this stadium and future worthwhile.

The Colts would be in Los Angeles if it weren't for Manning.

[ruksak]

Free agency is certainly an option to further solidify the OL. In fact, this past year I advocated going out a breaking the bank for a top notch OG, several of whom were available. That being said, when you say they have spent enough picks, I see but only two recent picks that still hold a lot of promise. Castonzo should pan out and I am hopeful that Ijilana will as well. That's not enough, though. I think that in addition to Castonzo and Ijilana, the Colts are still one great OL stud away from having the pieces for a dominating offensive line. In the absence of free agency, then I think if you can grab another OL stud in the draft, you do it.

My main concern in regard to drafting more O-linemen (namely with rounds 1-4) is time. We need to protect Manning in 2012 with bonified players, not hopeful rookies.

[Andy]

We need to think about the future... the defense isn't changing too much, and the real problem is the secondary. It's a CB heavy draft, so we can pick some good ones up in the 2nd and/or 3rd round. A good quarterback is the difference between a win and a loss. We need to think about the next 15 years, instead of just building our team for the next 4, only to lose when PM retire.

[willysp]

this has been discussed to death. we have 4 years left with peyton.............

Correction - "Peyton has 4 years left on his contract, we hope that he can return and play it out"

[Sparttns]

I still don't see us getting the first pick. Peyton will probably be back in December (the team needs to see what he brings back from injury before going into the offseason) and that could mean 3-4 wins for the team before ending the year.

I don't see Miami winning any games because, frankly, there's no hope to improve for them before the season ends.

I don't see a chance at Luck for us, and at least a part of me is happy. There could be a lot of possible negative endings around it, and if Manning comes back we have the next 2-3 years to get a good prospect to learn a pair more years behind him (remember Rodgers was drafted in the 20's, so we should get a chance at a real QB before Manning retires.

For now, surround him with elite talent, the kind of talent that can get a win at a crucial moment (other than Mathis or Freeney, I don't see any of that in the Defense), and we can have a real shot the next 4 years.