Everything Trent Richardson

[esmort]

I never understand when someone says "undebatable top 5 RB"........In what? Skill wise? Total yards? rushing yards? TD's? receiving yards at his position?

 

It doesn't have to be one specific category... general performance ... I think most analysts, sports reporters, knowledgeable fans, etc ... would have pretty similar top 5 lists. 

[Gavin]

It doesn't have to be one specific category... general performance ... I think most analysts, sports reporters, knowledgeable fans, etc ... would have pretty similar top 5 lists. 

So what would you consider a top 5 Back?

[esmort]

So the question is who do you put the blame on more for Browns lack of 1st round talent production at rb and why

 

I think the blame can be attributed to Brown and Polian ... Brown lacked the talent and durability of a 1st round RB and Polian overdrafted him.

 

So what would you consider a top 5 Back?

 

Top 5 In 2013; in no order .... AP, J. Charles, L. McCoy, M. Lynch, & M. Forte .... Lacy on bubble

[Gavin]

I think the blame can be attributed to Brown and Polian ... Brown lacked the talent and durability of a 1st round RB and Polian overdrafted him.

 

 

Top 5 In 2013; in no order .... AP, J. Charles, L. McCoy, M. Lynch, & M. Forte .... Lacy on bubble

I dont think you can blame Brown really, He simply wasn't a 1st round talent, He was purely a Scat Back(and a damn good one) drafted to be a #1. I'd be happy with 1000 yards from him(Trent) if he gets 250 carries, 8 td's, Though with 3 Backs I think he gets closer to 200--220....with 3 capable Backs I expect we run with the hot hand, I'd be alright with 950 give or take 50 yards with 6-8  TD's, Hopefully Ballard comes back healthy and can give us something similar....Though again....Our interior O Line has to do there jobs, I'd be happy with a top 15 running game, 16 or lower would be a disappointment

[Modern]

I dont think realistically any of the backs will get 1000 yards unless they start dropping like flies.

For Trent to be a success i think he needs the potential to get 1000 yards, which means when he gets his touches he has to move the ball, ypc.

He isnt gonna ever be a first round talent, he can contribute, maybe, but I think the justification for a 1st round 3rd overall selection has sailed and i think even a later 1st is out of the question for him. 

Seriously he is Ron Dayne, he is a short yardage back at best.he can pound it in from the 1 but should never be handed the ball in a 3rd and 3 or 3rd and 4.

Its like he focuses on where he wants the hole to be and if it isnt there then he can not adjust or see it somewhere else.

Grigson blew it when he made the trade,best thing he can do now is try and find situations where Trent may be useful because if you plug him in as the starter and he puts up number like last season then thats just pride getting in the way of doing whats best for the team.

and yes Addai and Brown were both first round busts, not worth where they were taken

[esmort]

I dont think you can blame Brown really, He simply wasn't a 1st round talent, He was purely a Scat Back(and a damn good one) drafted to be a #1. I'd be happy with 1000 yards from him(Trent) if he gets 250 carries, 8 td's, Though with 3 Backs I think he gets closer to 200--220....with 3 capable Backs I expect we run with the hot hand, I'd be alright with 950 give or take 50 yards with 6-8  TD's, Hopefully Ballard comes back healthy and can give us something similar....Though again....Our interior O Line has to do there jobs, I'd be happy with a top 15 running game, 16 or lower would be a disappointment

 

I agree about Brown not being a 1st round talent.

 

I would love to see TR put up those numbers in a time share if Ballard and/or Bradshaw stay healthy ... but those numbers still won't justify the 1st round pick.

[Gavin]

I agree about Brown not being a 1st round talent.

 

I would love to see TR put up those numbers in a time share if Ballard and/or Bradshaw stay healthy ... but those numbers still won't justify the 1st round pick.

Truth is the rb position dont justify a 1st round pick unless he is AP or Barry Sanders. If your O Line does there job and the RB has vision then you can literally make an undrafted RB look like an All Pro. I dont think I'd draft a rb earlier then the late rounds (5th or lower)

[jvan1973]

Truth is the rb position dont justify a 1st round pick unless he is AP or Barry Sanders. If your O Line does there job and the RB has vision then you can literally make an undrafted RB look like an All Pro. I dont think I'd draft a rb earlier then the late rounds (5th or lower)

its a gamble like any other position. You win some, you lose some

[Modern]

We didnt draft Richardson though. He didnt have a spectacular rookie season, his numbers were comparable to Ballards.

There was really no reason to make the trade.

Trent hadnt shown that he was the next AP, he didnt set the world on fire, Bradshaw and Brown were both still active.There was no reason on our end to make the trade. There were going to be running backs in this draft this year, there were freeagents available if Bradshaw and Brown were injured. I cant wrap my head around what made Grigson make the trade. 

 

[Gavin]

its a gamble like any other position. You win some, you lose some

Its not about if a player at rb would workout......you would hope if the team who drafted him had a competent O Line and he had at least some vision, Its about the # of good years you most often get out of that rb, 5-6 if your lucky and he stays healthy

[Modern]

This is Trent's 3rd season and so far he has been banged up apparently. Even if he picks up no ypc he is still taking hits.

So even if he turns it around its still time off his career.

Bradshaw is only 27 and is considered washed up by many because of his injury history.

[YOUR GM]

If Bradshaw can shake the injuries and IF the coaches are fair, I ultimately see him being our lead back going forward. He's obviously the most talented of the bunch

[Defjamz26]

I agree...to even begin to have a conversation about justifying the trade he would have to do well enough to be considered an undebatable top 5 RB IMO.

 

While I hope he is at least average for the Colts sake ... I would still think of him/the situation as an epic failure if he only performs at an average RB level.

 

And that's the sad part. There are a lot of fans who are waiting to justify the trade by hoping he at least becomes average. People are already in denial. But I agree, if he isn't a top 5 back in the league then this was a terrible trade. But the blind Colts fans will still praise Grigson for his genius because we got him for cheap.

[Modern]

He wasn't cheap at all. First round draft pick ......

Many other backs could have matched or exceeded his numbers last year for less then he cost.

He is the highest paid runningback on the roster not counting the first round pick given for him. He wasn't cheap.

[Modern]

He is cheap compared to many good runningbacks, but so far he has not been good. You can't compare his salary to what a back who puts up better numbers anymore then you could say Painter was cheap compared to Peyton, they might as well play different positions.

[NewEra]

And that's the sad part. There are a lot of fans who are waiting to justify the trade by hoping he at least becomes average. People are already in denial. But I agree, if he isn't a top 5 back in the league then this was a terrible trade. But the blind Colts fans will still praise Grigson for his genius because we got him for cheap.

Brown was never a top 5 pick and we got him around the same spot. I have no doubt Trent will be much better than brown. I have no problem of wanting him to be a top 5 back. Which I think he has the potential. I really hope he proves all you haters wrong.

[Modern]

I am well aware that I am viewed as a "hater" because I have been most vocal in my dislike of all things Richardson.

But how is it that anyone who doesn't show blind faith that Trent will be great a "hater" ?

Do you have to support a player and sing his praises even when he isn't performing at an acceptable level ? Do you have to ignore 2 seasons worth or play, turn a blind eye to statistics, and just pretend that everything is peachey in order to be considered a true fan ?

In 2 seasons he has not shown elite runningback skills. He was mediocre in Cleveland, and he sucked here in Indy. There is no way a rational person can ignore that.

Yet you are saying that anyone who expresses doubt in Trent is a "hater" .....

Lets say you buy a used car, runs like crap, take it to the same dealer and trade it for another, runs like crap also, now if I was to tell you that you should probably buy a car somewhere else would you call that being a hater ?

The current reality of the Richardson situation is he stinks, he stunk in his first game as a colt and he stunk the last time they handed him the ball. That is reality, can't deny it.

Accepting reality means you are a hater apparently, and ignoring it completely means you are a true fan .....

Curtis Painter stunk, stunk bad, that was reality, calling him on it wasn't being a hater, it was realizing the truth. So far Richardson plays at a level compatible to Painters level, neither should be starting for an NFL team, so what's the difference ?

Only difference I can see would be that some people can't accept that Grigson would make such a dumb trade or that the Colts front office was outsmarted by Cleveland's.

So if Richardson comes out strong and plays well and he is trashed talked, then maybe you can call people "haters" but as long as he plays poorly and people call him out on it then it seems that there is no hate, only reality.

[Gavin]

I am well aware that I am viewed as a "hater" because I have been most vocal in my dislike of all things Richardson.

But how is it that anyone who doesn't show blind faith that Trent will be great a "hater" ?

Do you have to support a player and sing his praises even when he isn't performing at an acceptable level ? Do you have to ignore 2 seasons worth or play, turn a blind eye to statistics, and just pretend that everything is peachey in order to be considered a true fan ?

In 2 seasons he has not shown elite runningback skills. He was mediocre in Cleveland, and he sucked here in Indy. There is no way a rational person can ignore that.

Yet you are saying that anyone who expresses doubt in Trent is a "hater" .....

Lets say you buy a used car, runs like crap, take it to the same dealer and trade it for another, runs like crap also, now if I was to tell you that you should probably buy a car somewhere else would you call that being a hater ?

The current reality of the Richardson situation is he stinks, he stunk in his first game as a colt and he stunk the last time they handed him the ball. That is reality, can't deny it.

Accepting reality means you are a hater apparently, and ignoring it completely means you are a true fan .....

Curtis Painter stunk, stunk bad, that was reality, calling him on it wasn't being a hater, it was realizing the truth. So far Richardson plays at a level compatible to Painters level, neither should be starting for an NFL team, so what's the difference ?

Only difference I can see would be that some people can't accept that Grigson would make such a dumb trade or that the Colts front office was outsmarted by Cleveland's.

So if Richardson comes out strong and plays well and he is trashed talked, then maybe you can call people "haters" but as long as he plays poorly and people call him out on it then it seems that there is no hate, only reality.

Or most of us know that it was a bad trade but have moved on because we cant do anything about it, It is what it is. The reality is he stunk in his 1st of three years as a Colt and both sides go on...and on....and on......and on....and on...and on serves no purpose

[NewEra]

Or most of us know that it was a bad trade but have moved on because we cant do anything about it, It is what it is. The reality is he stunk in his 1st of three years as a Colt and both sides go on...and on....and on......and on....and on...and on serves no purpose

Exactly. I still would like to see what he can do this year before I write him off. Did he have a bad year last year? Yes! No one is denying that. Some of us just have hope that he turns it around for the sake of our team. Hate to lose a 1st for nothing.

[optimusprimetime]

The fact of the matter is our line sucked last year.  Pep should have had some plays designed to get him on the outside....draw, tosses etc.....seemed like he ran right into a wall of offensive lineman getting pushed back.  DB had more runs plays that were less predictable if that makes any sense, defenses knew exactly what Trent was gonna do.....  Our line is not filled with guys for successfully having a power run game. 

[Modern]

When they ran him outside he was too slow and was never able to come around the edge before the defense was on him.

When he ran inside he had tunnel vision and just ran for where he thought or wanted a hole to be.

I have been watching some of his play in Cleveland and he did the same thing, his style of play didnt change with the new offense, he made the same mistakes and had the same lack of vision. This is part of why i believe that the new playbook isnt a justifiable excuse, the other part being he was in Indy for a long time and didnt improve.

He doesnt have any burst when handed the ball, he moves kinda slowly, you would think since he isnt running full force that he would have time to see the holes, but he doesnt do that either. There can be a huge hole, but if it isnt exactly where Trent wants or believes it should be then he ignores it.

Im not an expert on training runningbacks but this seems like something that would have to come naturally and couldnt be taught. either a guy has vision and the ability to adjust to what he is being given or he doesnt.

I have a friend who is a tattoo artist, very good at what he does. Years ago he wanted me to apprentice under him and learn to tattoo. I told him it wasnt possible, I could learn everything technical. I could learn about the needles and ink and how to apply the ink correctly, but I possessed no artistic talent. No amount of studying could change that, I cant draw.

I think vision and awareness for a runningback are much the same, either its there or it isnt, and Im not sure its there in Trent, atleast not at the NFL level. Im not saying Im right, but its my opinion

[Blueblazes]

To justify the trade?... or for him to be a positive contributor to the offense?

 

In order for the trade to look more favorable, I'd expect him to be close to a top 5 running back next year. In order for everyone to forget about last year and move on, he should have at least 4 YPC, with close to 1000 yards rushing. I'd be happy with that for next year. No, that's not #3 overall pick production, but it's way better than what we got out of him last year

Good goals for TR to be acceptable. 1,000 yds is only 63 yds per game--he must do that. And if he gets 4.0 ypc, that would be acceptable as well. I don't even fault Grigs for giving up the 1st round pick (only 40% of 1st rounders achieve their expectations). But I would not give up this 1st rounder for him. If we had given up a 2nd or 3rd rounder, we could not be so disappointed (dang, did we really only get a 2nd rounder for Marshall Faulk?-wowww-but I digress).  I never saw TR do much at the NFL level before the trade or after it. I see him getting 800 yds (50 per game) and 3.8 per carry). And this would be fine for a decent RB, but certainly not top rate material. Ths bottomline is that we could have had an equally as good RB, by picking up a free agent and not losing our 1st round pick. I genuinely hope I am dead wrong and he puts up 1,100 yds at 4.4 ypc.

[Modern]

Rumor has it we were looking at Gerhart before the Richardson trade, I'm interested in seeing what he can do in Jacksonville. If he is better then Richardson then its gonna suck.

[esmort]

Why unpin the thread? IMO that just seems to make the the topic/arguing spill into and derail other threads.

[jvan1973]

Why unpin the thread? IMO that just seems to make the the topic/arguing spill into and derail other threads.

What else really needs to be said?

[esmort]

What else really needs to be said?

 

I don't know that anything necessarily "needs" to be said, but when it comes down to it that can apply to many thread topics. 

 

The fact is people are going to argue this topic for the foreseeable future as evidenced by the length of this thread and the frequency it gets posted in; which will only increase when draft, OTAs, etc... start.  Whether you like the thread topic or not, pinning this thread helps keep this argument contained in one place... which is a good thing IMO.

 

Wait and see ... if this thread falls off the front page (or even to the bottom) you will start seeing an increase in TR arguments derailing other threads and/or new TR threads popping up. 

[Thewholefnshow28]

What else really needs to be said?

 

There is nothing more to be said until we see what we do in the first couple of weeks of the season.  Hopefully our OL had time to gel in TC and they stay healthy.  If we see him doing well then great.  If we see him still struggling and other RBs producing then we know we are in some trouble.  Everyone has said their peace.  We just now have to see what a healthy OL and another TC can do for the run game.

 

I have my doubts and I expect we will see what we saw last year and Bradshaw/Ballard will be taking over the primary role while we sprinkle Trent as a third down back.  I hope I am wrong and he can step up and be a full time back to carry the load and produce all year long.

[ar1888]

I rewatched the Sunday night game at the Texans. After watching that game I feel optimistic he can be decent back in the Colts system. His receiving out of the backfield alone is enough for me to hold out hope.

[Modern]

I will have to watch that game I guess

[BrentMc11]

We will see with a different OL.....running through the 2 hole over and over was a bad dose for Colts eyes...Trents as well with the All Pro tandem of Satele and McGlynn.....there were no holes where he was running.  He did do well catching the pass.

[schwamm]

We will see with a different OL.....running through the 2 hole over and over was a bad dose for Colts eyes...Trents as well with the All Pro tandem of Satele and McGlynn.....there were no holes where he was running.  He did do well catching the pass.

That is just an excuse... at least until we are in a thread about the moves Grigson hasn't been making to improve the OLine. 

[Modern]

went back and looked at the stats vs. Texans. 

19 carries for 64 yards shows promise ? He had his season long run that game of 22 yards .... take away that run and you have a ypc of 2.6 ...... keep in mind this was against the worst team in the league last season.

His first game against the Texans last season he had 8 carries for 20 yards and a 2.5 ypc.

The only thing this shows me is if the Texans hadnt given Trent his biggest run of the season his ypc would have been the same both times he played them.

Trents second longest run was 16 yards, followed by 2 twelves and an eleven, the rest of the games he couldnt run one for more then single digits. So Trent will get a run of 10 or more yards in less then 30% of the games he plays in.

i see much promise here

[Modern]

Maybe Grigson was impressed with how Trent torched the Colts defense in 2012 and thats why he made the trade

[IndyScribe]

Maybe Grigson was impressed with how Trent torched the Colts defense in 2012 and thats why he made the trade

Or maybe he made the trade because we had RB issues.

[BrentMc11]

That is just an excuse... at least until we are in a thread about the moves Grigson hasn't been making to improve the OLine. 

The one hole sucked too!  

[ar1888]

went back and looked at the stats vs. Texans. 

19 carries for 64 yards shows promise ? He had his season long run that game of 22 yards .... take away that run and you have a ypc of 2.6 ...... keep in mind this was against the worst team in the league last season.

His first game against the Texans last season he had 8 carries for 20 yards and a 2.5 ypc.

The only thing this shows me is if the Texans hadnt given Trent his biggest run of the season his ypc would have been the same both times he played them.

Trents second longest run was 16 yards, followed by 2 twelves and an eleven, the rest of the games he couldnt run one for more then single digits. So Trent will get a run of 10 or more yards in less then 30% of the games he plays in.

i see much promise here

 

Watch the game, don't just look at the stats.

[Modern]

Watch the game, don't just look at the stats.

What is watching the game again going to accomplish ? The numbers tell the tale of a runningback who can not run. Even on Cleveland he couldn't run.

8 carries for 8 yards against the Colts run defense in 2012 .... How many did Blount put on us in the playoff game this season ? We don't have a good run defense, haven't in years, but Richardson came to town and made them look elite.

Don't look at the stats .....

What is he the first game managing runningback ? Stats are what matters at his position. He is an average pass blocker and can catch the ball sometimes, that's it.

Runningbacks who can catch are nice, come in handy sometimes, but their main job is to run the ball.

I would take a runningback who was putting up 4+ ypc over a runningback who can sometimes get you 40 yards receiving in a game.

His stats were beyond poor, they were the worst. He manages to break a run for 22 yards in a game and because of that he shows promise ??

You gotta be realistic, the guy showed nothing all season. You can hope he turns it around and you can be his cheerleader but you can't ignore his stats, he was horrible as a Colt

[trisca01]

What is watching the game again going to accomplish ? The numbers tell the tale of a runningback who can not run. Even on Cleveland he couldn't run.

8 carries for 8 yards against the Colts run defense in 2012 .... How many did Blount put on us in the playoff game this season ? We don't have a good run defense, haven't in years, but Richardson came to town and made them look elite.

Don't look at the stats .....

What is he the first game managing runningback ? Stats are what matters at his position. He is an average pass blocker and can catch the ball sometimes, that's it.

Runningbacks who can catch are nice, come in handy sometimes, but their main job is to run the ball.

I would take a runningback who was putting up 4+ ypc over a runningback who can sometimes get you 40 yards receiving in a game.

His stats were beyond poor, they were the worst. He manages to break a run for 22 yards in a game and because of that he shows promise ??

You gotta be realistic, the guy showed nothing all season. You can hope he turns it around and you can be his cheerleader but you can't ignore his stats, he was horrible as a Colt

If you have to ask what watching the game is going to accomplish then that tells me all I need to know about your evaluation method. How about 3rd and 2, Richardson gets hit 2 yards in the backfield and manages to get the first down by an inch. The stat will tell you that he picked up 2 yards on 1 carry - actually watching the game will tell you much more.

While you are reviewing film take a peek at the last Jacksonville game and also the 2nd half of the Seahawks game. He certainly showed promise. There isn't anybody, that I have heard, saying he had a good year or even a single good game. There are only people saying that, BY WATCHING HIM PLAY, they see reason to believe that he will do better and are hopeful about his potential.

[Modern]

I have seen plenty of Trent. Cherry picking plays and games isn't gonna make him seem good.

Stats matter on every runningback except Trent somehow.

If Trent manages to pick up 1 first down on 20 attempts he shows promise ..,....

It doesn't work that way, consistency is vital in the NFL and Trent is consistently bad.

[YOUR GM]

" :whew: My name is Modern...... And I am a Trent Richardson addict..."

 

 

 

"Hiiiiii, Modern!    :clap:    :clap:    :clap: "