Pep taking a subtle shot at Patriots about their cheating scandal?

[southwest1]

sry, I got carried away . . .

 

oh, do I get any points for keeping my post to less than a one and half monitors screen size . . .

Yehoodi, you did nothing wrong my friend. You have no need to apologize for anything. Yes, I aggressively defend the Patriots on SpyGate, but I would do the same thing if my beloved Colts were accused of stealing defensive signals too. 

 

You were merely providing valuable context like you always do. Keep it up! 

[Gavin]

Highly doubt he was taking a shot....especially right before they play the Pats, I think if he took a shot it would not be a veiled shot. I think "It was ever-changing looks and disguises and they always tend to find ways to figure out some of your signals" simply means....Hey at one time they were a great defense....No story here, sorry to burst the bubble of those that feed off that sort of thing

[Valpo2004]

Precisely, it is time to discard SpyGate permanently now. Will it help the Colts or Patriots emerge victorious this weekend at all? Nope.

 

Plus, NE has appeared in 2 SBs since the scandal broke. Clearly, NE knows what the hades they are doing as a franchise & it's an insult to that team to keep bringing up a story that doesn't reveal the key to their Championship Pedigree at all. JMO. 

 

Gee before that scandal they had 3 SB wins and a great playoff record.  After that scandal they appeared in 2 SB's and their playoff record is closer to Peyton Manning's playoff record that they are critical for not being clutch.  

 

The Pats set records for some of the worst penalties in the NFL ever before Bountygate.

[Restored]

I hear you... I'm sure there was some kind of advantage to it, otherwise Belichick would not have wasted time on it. 

 

Unfortunately neither BB nor the league commented on it too extensively. I always thought that Belichick's "nothing more to add" comments worked against him. Maybe if he'd answered some more questions at the time, speculation wouldn't be as open as it is. And maybe if he writes another book someday, he'll delve in more deeply.

 

FWIW, Kraft once relayed a story where he asked Belichick how much it helped him. After the coach replied, "Not very much," Kraft said to him, "Then you're a *," lol...

 

Obviously I would rather have the team I root for be above reproach, but they messed up, they gave people the opportunity to doubt them and tear them down, so... these are self-inflicted wounds.

 

Thanks again for the good, civil discussion. 

 

Agreed. I'm with you on that its somewhere in the middle of what most Patriots fans see and what "Haters" see. We will never know now.

 

As far as the playoff record before and after, I understand it'd be hard to continue at that pace, but dropping to 5-5, especially with big losses at home, is just shocking IMO.

[Restored]

I am not sure what that really proves. I think it is far harder to keep winning at the clip the Pats have been doing for the last 13 years with 11 divisional titles and securing a bye 9 times. They did go perfect 10-0 which would have been hard to duplicate even if they were never caught videotaping and continued to tape signals. Still though behind the 7-7 since their last SB is 4 AFCCG appearances and 2 SB appearances with losses by 3 points and 4 points in those SBs.

 

If you feel their success is most attributable to spygate then I doubt there would be much I could say to dissuade you and I really don't care to be honest. But like I said had their winning dropped off, I would have put more stock in spygate. At this point, I think it is probably the most overblown sports story in NFL history. JMO.

 

Again, you are citing regular season numbers and stats. And as you and every other Patriots fan love to point out, especially concerning Peyton Manning, all that matters is the playoffs. All I'm saying is, don't try to use regular season stats to favor the Patriots accomplishments but diminish them when talking about the Colts or Peyton Manning. Nobody even considers Peyton Manning getting the Colts to another SB appearance in 2009 as an accomplishment so why does BB/Brady get theirs as one? It's wildly inconsistent.

 

I don't think its the biggest factor in their success but I do think it played a bigger role than most people understand, mainly because the common fan doesn't understand the game on a playing level. It's pretty ironic how much their playoff record dropped off after Spygate no?

[amfootball]

Again, you are citing regular season numbers and stats. And as you and every other Patriots fan love to point out, especially concerning Peyton Manning, all that matters is the playoffs. All I'm saying is, don't try to use regular season stats to favor the Patriots accomplishments but diminish them when talking about the Colts or Peyton Manning. Nobody even considers Peyton Manning getting the Colts to another SB appearance in 2009 as an accomplishment so why does BB/Brady get theirs as one? It's wildly inconsistent.

 

I don't think its the biggest factor in their success but I do think it played a bigger role than most people understand, mainly because the common fan doesn't understand the game on a playing level. It's pretty ironic how much their playoff record dropped off after Spygate no?

The tapes were not only used for the post-season but the regular season as well so it would make sense that their overall success would have dropped and there would have been no more playoff appearances if the taping had that much effect.

 

But honestly it sounds like you are just bitter over Brady's playoff record vs Manning and want to use spygate as some sort of means to tear Brady down. Have at it. I really don't want to get into all of that. A 7-7 playoff record is actually a good record and consistent with most top QBs. Manning's playoff record since his last SB appearance in 2009 is 0-2; Rodgers playoff record since his SB win is 1-3 and Brees playoff record since his SB is 2-2. The thing that stands out is the number of playoff games that Brady has played in - 14 since his three SB wins. His 24 soon to be 25 playoff games is the most all time and of course he has the most wins at 17 and will try to add to that tomorrow night.

[Flying Elvis]

Let me get this straight. The Patriots playoff record dropped off because they couldn't tape signals anymore. Not because of losing players like Willie McGinist, Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Ted Johnson, Ty Law, Richard Seymour, Rodney Harrison, Kevin Faulk, Troy Brown, Deion Branch or Adam Vinatieri. Whatever.

[dudeski]

the pats cheating their way to 3 super bowl wins is a horrible black eye on the nfl

 

they got off very lightly. 

[Restored]

The tapes were not only used for the post-season but the regular season as well so it would make sense that their overall success would have dropped and there would have been no more playoff appearances if the taping had that much effect.

But honestly it sounds like you are just bitter over Brady's playoff record vs Manning and want to use spygate as some sort of means to tear Brady down. Have at it. I really don't want to get into all of that. A 7-7 playoff record is actually a good record and consistent with most top QBs. Manning's playoff record since his last SB appearance in 2009 is 0-2; Rodgers playoff record since his SB win is 1-3 and Brees playoff record since his SB is 2-2. The thing that stands out is the number of playoff games that Brady has played in - 14 since his three SB wins. His 24 soon to be 25 playoff games is the most all time and of course he has the most wins at 17 and will try to add to that tomorrow night.

LOL. No. You can win plenty of regular season games with a good QB and good coaching staff, the Colts did it for years. But once you get to the post-season, if you don't have the team and the ability to tape other teams signals, you lose playoff games.

Again you can talk about playoff appearances and regular season stats and wins but like you and all your Patriots fans love to talk about, all that matters is Super Bowls, in which the Patriots have 0 since Spygate and are a mediocre 5-5 in the playoffs.

Sounds like you just want the entire world to forget about Spygate, even though it never will.

[Flying Elvis]

LOL. No. You can win plenty of regular season games with a good QB and good coaching staff, the Colts did it for years. But once you get to the post-season, if you don't have the team and the ability to tape other teams signals, you lose playoff games.

Again you can talk about playoff appearances and regular season stats and wins but like you and all your Patriots fans love to talk about, all that matters is Super Bowls, in which the Patriots have 0 since Spygate and are a mediocre 5-5 in the playoffs.

Sounds like you just want the entire world to forget about Spygate, even though it never will.

Mediocre? Only the Ravens 9-4, Giants 8-1 and Packers 6-4 have won more playoff games in that time period.

[braveheartcolt]

The League were right to punish the Patriots for tarnishing the game for Spygate. It did damage their product. But why oh why did the Colts not get hammered when the started Curtis Painter? That was way worse.

[Restored]

Mediocre? Only the Ravens 9-4, Giants 8-1 and Packers 6-4 have won more playoff games in that time period.

And how many Super Bowl wins?

[Flying Elvis]

And how many Super Bowl wins?

Take away a miracle catch by David Tyree and if Wes Welker makes that difficult catch then the Patriots' record is 7-3 with 2 more super bowl wins.

 

But you're right. It was because of the cheating.

[dudeski]

Take away a miracle catch by David Tyree and if Wes Welker makes that difficult catch then the Patriots' record is 7-3 with 2 more super bowl wins.

 

But you're right. It was because of the cheating.

take away the pats cheating and they have 0 super bowl wins

 

 

funny how that works

[Buck Showalter]

I would love to go to one thread on the Colts message board without having to read through a bunch of posts from pats fans, somedays this place has more traffic from fans of other teams...

 

I would seriously consider getting a life if I had the time to troll opposing teams message boards all day long...

[Restored]

Take away a miracle catch by David Tyree and if Wes Welker makes that difficult catch then the Patriots' record is 7-3 with 2 more super bowl wins.

But you're right. It was because of the cheating.

All I'm reading is excuses. Take away the tuck rule and Adam V. and it's looking like 0 Super Bowl wins overall.

I never said they didn't or did win simply because of Spygate. Just that it played a much bigger factor than people give credit for.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

I would love to go to one thread on the Colts message board without having to read through a bunch of posts from pats fans, somedays this place has more traffic from fans of other teams...

 

I would seriously consider getting a life if I had the time to troll opposing teams message boards all day long...

As soon as Brady retires we will never hear from Pats' fans again.

[BOTT]

Let me get this straight. The Patriots playoff record dropped off because they couldn't tape signals anymore. Not because of losing players like Willie McGinist, Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Ted Johnson, Ty Law, Richard Seymour, Rodney Harrison, Kevin Faulk, Troy Brown, Deion Branch or Adam Vinatieri. Whatever.

BB doesn't need good players! He can turn coal into diamonds. He can devise schemes that nobody else can even fathom. He made Brady, Bruschi, Seymour, etc. Only Einstein compares to BB intellectually, and that may be insulting to Bill.

[Gavin]

All I'm reading is excuses. Take away the tuck rule and Adam V. and it's looking like 0 Super Bowl wins overall.

I never said they didn't or did win simply because of Spygate. Just that it played a much bigger factor than people give credit for.

No it didn't, Fans from other teams just like to pretend it did but in reality we dont know what was on that footage and we only know of the footage being recorded once, What if our SB was taken away because there was complaints (during a game hat year) from the Patriots that there Coach To Quarterback communication did not work so they had to use signals

[Restored]

No it didn't, Fans from other teams just like to pretend it did but in reality we dont know what was on that footage and we only know of the footage being recorded once, What if our SB was taken away because there was complaints (during a game hat year) from the Patriots that there Coach To Quarterback communication did not work so they had to use signals

Don't understand how you are trying to play the what ifs with the Colts. If the Colts cheated, I wouldn't be too disappointed if they took away wins and or titles. They've taken away wins for much less offences in college football.

Like I said, if there was nothing to hide, why destroy them before releasing them to the public?

I'm not going to deeply explain it again but simply put, those signals would give a team a bigger advantage than people realize.

[Yehoodi]

I would love to go to one thread on the Colts message board without having to read through a bunch of posts from pats fans, somedays this place has more traffic from fans of other teams...

 

I would seriously consider getting a life if I had the time to troll opposing teams message boards all day long...

 

I hear yah, but it is pats week and this involves the pats and as such I can understand why pats fans would want to comment . .  .I spend 98% of my time on the general section and only came over here to check out some stuff as we are playing you guys and noticed this thread and wanted to comment . .

[amfootball]

I would love to go to one thread on the Colts message board without having to read through a bunch of posts from pats fans, somedays this place has more traffic from fans of other teams...

 

I would seriously consider getting a life if I had the time to troll opposing teams message boards all day long...

I am member of several message boards, Pats ones as well and appreciate fans from opposing teams as it keeps fresh perspectives. Do you just want Colts singing kumbaya all day? ;)

[Flying Elvis]

I would love to go to one thread on the Colts message board without having to read through a bunch of posts from pats fans, somedays this place has more traffic from fans of other teams...

 

I would seriously consider getting a life if I had the time to troll opposing teams message boards all day long...

Excuse the intrusion Buck. You have a nice forum here. It's set up smartly and it's well moderated. I like that the mods are also posters. I've noticed at least one of them is a Pats fan.

Everyone here has been friendly and welcoming. I did not come here to troll. In fact I've haven't seen any trolling here at all. I'm sure the mods wouldn't allow it anyway.

The thread title caught my attention as it was intended. It's always a grating subject with Patriots' fans to begin with. I'm not sure what you expected to see here.

[ViriLudant]

LOL are you really implying that the league already knew about the tapes and just "decided" to punish the Pats because someone brought it up? Don't be so naive here.

Part of the punishment WAS because it gave them an unfair advantage, which is why it was such a big deal. Look, I get it. You are a Patriots fan, if I was in your shoes I'd try to downplay it every chance I get. It's not pretty and regardless of your opinion, it does tarnish those Super Bowls.

Like I said, if it wasn't a big deal and there was nothing there, why not release the tapes for all to see? If its just coaches "doing the YMCA" on the sidelines, show us.

Both Dungy and Polian said that what the Patriots did gave them no advantage.

Please learn your facts before posting such garbage.

[MR. Blueblood]

I am member of several message boards, Pats ones as well and appreciate fans from opposing teams as it keeps fresh perspectives. Do you just want Colts singing kumbaya all day? ;)

C'mon now, you've been around this forum enough.  This fan base can't wait to rip each other's heads off....they sure aren't going to be sitting around singing together. 

 

BTW, good luck to you guys today, may the best team win  :thmsup:

[MR. Blueblood]

Opposing fans who still cling to Spygate basically want it to be as bad as it can be, and in fairness, Patriots fans want the opposite. As usual, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. 

 

 

I would be hard pressed to find a truer statement than that.  I admit that when I want to try and rile up some Pats fans I know I will talk crap about Spygate and all that.  At times, as much as I would like to think it's the devastating conspiracy from the league to cover up for one of it's chosen team, it's probably not much worse than what a lot of the other teams try to do anyway.

 

By the time the playoffs roll around and you've haven't figured out a teams tendencies from studying a season(s) worth of actual game film then I feel sorry for your coaching staff.  I think both teams have a real good idea of what the other is going to try and do today.  It's up to the players to go out and beat the man across from them more than they get beat.  They do that, it doesn't matter what the other team knows ahead of time.

 

That being said, best of luck to you guys today, I just hope you're on the losing end 

[Nadine]

With the Colts Pats game today.........we are revisiting old arguments

spygate

why are pats fans on a colts board

etc etc etc

 

If you choose to participate in these historically circular discussions, please do so with the understanding that nobody is changing their minds

 

And do not call each other names or post in a baiting or inflammatory way