Welker Is A Stud

[jvan1973]

I think the proof is in how the team is constructed. They went and got two WRs on the outside and upgraded the run game with Blount to compliment Ridley, Vareen and Boldin.

While the system did produce some great stats, it did not produce the rings and became easy to defend with teams like the Ravens and Giants who would clog up the middle.

what two outside wrs did they bring in?

[dgambill]

True. But the annoying fans make it extra sweet when the Pats lose. Besides, I only state it on a Colts forum because I never feel like going to any other forum and thump my chest even if it has merit to it.

They do...they most certainly do. I didn't mean you going on to other teams forums...

 

^^^^^THIS

I meant this lol!!! Why a fan from another team finds it so important to go to OUR/OTHER website and post their opinions of how superior their players or team is beyond me. Not saying they don't sometimes add to the discussion but more often then not they spew the same thing over and over. I don't care enough about the Pats/Steelers/Redskins etc to do that...a great philosopher once said "Ain't nobody got time for that!" 

[amfootball]

what two outside wrs did they bring in?

Thomkins - undrafted free agent and Dobson - draft pick.

[jvan1973]

Thomkins - undrafted free agent and Dobson - draft pick.

I'm pretty sure BB isn't designing his offense around those two guys.

[amfootball]

I'm pretty sure BB isn't designing his offense around those two guys.

Of course not but they are a part of it. Thomkins had both TD catches last week and Dobson had the one TD in the Jets game. The offense will be more balance with outside threats, threat at TE and the run game.

[AntonMcG]

I think the proof is in how the team is constructed. They went and got two WRs on the outside and upgraded the run game with Blount to compliment Ridley, Vareen and Boldin.

 

While the system did produce some great stats, it did not produce the rings and became easy to defend with teams like the Ravens and Giants who would clog up the middle.

 

Okay... so no proof? Good, just checking.

 

You never cease to amaze.

[-JJ-]

Really was just trying to wake the Pat people up.

<Wakes up> Wow we lost Welker? ehhh where's my binky

[dw49]

<Wakes up> Wow we lost Welker? ehhh where's my binky

 

 

Sorry I was bored and wanted to see AM football kick me in the stones. Really was trying to get even with him for immediately saying the 49ers stink. I don't even think the final gun went off before he had to get that out. 

[-JJ-]

I noticed his reference to that a few times as well.    Of course,  if Peyton had kept passing, (instead of practicing the "running" game)  then he'd have been accused of trying to "run up the score"  and "trying to break more passing TD records"   and so on......  They were playing, good,  smart football.  IMO

Yes but we were running two new plays with new Welker and Moss that were red zone passes. We weren't practicing running but passing with new WRs. I know this because those two plays were definitely new when we practiced them with the game in hand AND were used the following week when that play DID matter to win the game.

BB will always use a big lead to still practice situational football because he cares about making his team better, not embarrassing a team who can't stop it.

[MAC]

You know what ticks me off?  Freaking Bronco's named Montee Ball their #1 RB right out of training camp and put Moreno as their #3 back.  This leads me to waive Moreno in FF because I figured he'd never see the football.  

 

Then what happens. . . they use Moreno as their primary RB.  

Sorry.

 

They used Hillman as their #1 the entire pre-season until he had a minor injury and they bumped Ball. There was never a reason to conclude that Ball would be the "primary back". Moreno was coming back from an injury - they knew what he could do, particularly in terms of pass blocking. They were experimenting with the young guys and developing them. They pointed refused to commit to anything - it's the newspapers who were trying to draw conclusions.

 

It was abundantly clear based on both last season and the varying skills of the three backs that all three would be getting playing time as long as they were effective. Who starts was always going to be largely a trivial concern. There is no primary back.

[-JJ-]

Welker is definately very very good. He is 100% upgrade over Stokely last year as he is able to get separation and runs some of the best routes in football. That corner post was beautiful. I will say just like the rest of the Broncos though he has concentration lapses where he drops catchable balls. He makes most look so easy that the minor difficult ones we think he should have and he misses some. I agree Denver leaves some plays on the field and we will see if it costs them later...Peyton does throw a pass that is a little harder to catch...he doesn't have that tight spiral that Brady throws. Not saying Brady is better but they have their differences and some things Peyton is better at. Tom has the advantage of throwing very catchable balls. Welker has had some issues in the playoffs on some big 3rd down passes and we've seen some of those show up a few times this year but I think people get a little over-critical of him. Those teams don't get there without him...aren't in position to win without him...and yes Tom didn't throw very his best pass. I think both players would like those back...just like Peyton would take back that throw across his body last year.

Brady has the great spiral and is very accurate as you say but what I see in Manning is on some of the longer balls he throws may look wobbly coming out but boy it sure lands right in the receiver's hands. Just last night I saw a lot of that in Denver and it is impressive and there he has the nod over Brady.

Like you say different attributes is true with many great QB thus rating one over the other is fruitless. If Brady could only drop it in like Manning..wow what a QB that would be

[dgambill]

Brady has the great spiral and is very accurate as you say but what I see in Manning is on some of the longer balls he throws may look wobbly coming out but boy it sure lands right in the receiver's hands. Just last night I saw a lot of that in Denver and it is impressive and there he has the nod over Brady.

Like you say different attributes is true with many great QB thus rating one over the other is fruitless. If Brady could only drop it in like Manning..wow what a QB that would be

Out of likes but I agree. We probably wouldn't agree across the board which characteristics each is superior with but Brady has a better arm and tighter spiral...I think he does a better job at hitting guys that can run after the catch...and love how he never turns the ball over...he will check down. Peyton goes for tougher plays imo which causes more turnovers but he fits it in windows that no one can see...he throws receivers open...but he also gets them creamed sometimes lol. They both make pre-snap reads better than anyone...I do give Peyton a nod on changing plays and play calls because he does so much more before the play...but Brady is deadly against the blitz to. 7 on 7 I doubt either would ever win lol....it would go on forever. Brady has had better OLs and over the years along with a better defense early on..that is what separates them.

[bayone]

Brady has the great spiral and is very accurate as you say but what I see in Manning is on some of the longer balls he throws may look wobbly coming out but boy it sure lands right in the receiver's hands. Just last night I saw a lot of that in Denver and it is impressive and there he has the nod over Brady.

Like you say different attributes is true with many great QB thus rating one over the other is fruitless. If Brady could only drop it in like Manning..wow what a QB that would be

 

Out of likes but I agree. We probably wouldn't agree across the board which characteristics each is superior with but Brady has a better arm and tighter spiral...I think he does a better job at hitting guys that can run after the catch...and love how he never turns the ball over...he will check down. Peyton goes for tougher plays imo which causes more turnovers but he fits it in windows that no one can see...he throws receivers open...but he also gets them creamed sometimes lol. They both make pre-snap reads better than anyone...I do give Peyton a nod on changing plays and play calls because he does so much more before the play...but Brady is deadly against the blitz to. 7 on 7 I doubt either would ever win lol....it would go on forever. Brady has had better OLs and over the years along with a better defense early on..that is what separates them.

 

 on another note, forgot what group did the eval, but they said both are great avoiding the sack, the differences is one ca avoid sacks from  either tackle better, the other from up the middle, better ,  think former was Peyton

 

but both were great at it, just in different ways

[Valpo2004]

Sorry.

 

They used Hillman as their #1 the entire pre-season until he had a minor injury and they bumped Ball. There was never a reason to conclude that Ball would be the "primary back". Moreno was coming back from an injury - they knew what he could do, particularly in terms of pass blocking. They were experimenting with the young guys and developing them. They pointed refused to commit to anything - it's the newspapers who were trying to draw conclusions.

 

It was abundantly clear based on both last season and the varying skills of the three backs that all three would be getting playing time as long as they were effective. Who starts was always going to be largely a trivial concern. There is no primary back.

I would say they have a primary back.  That doesn't mean they don't rotate the others in there quite a bit.  But the guy that see's most time is Moreno.  He's clearly their best back overall.  

 

I thought their offical depth chart for week 1 had him as #3.  Maybe I misread that or something.  Didn't know he was still hampered by injury in training camp.  

 

But it's my fault because I should have waited and seen what was going to happen before I did anything.  (Something to learn from as this was my first FF season).  But I saw that he was going to be the #3 guy and I waived him for Shonn Greene.  

 

Next time I'm gonna give it a few weeks into the season before I dump a guy like that.  

[BOTT]

He has awesome hair plugs....right up their with Matthew McConaughey

[southwest1]

for what it is worth Edelman has as much production as Welker has this year . . . yes it would of been nice to keep Welker for depth reasons, but at the same time he is 5 years older than Edelman and Amendola . . . so it was more about 2-3 years down the road and not this year . . . it is basically a mini Manning v. Luck debate . . . sacrifice a great player with fewer years left in his career for a younger player . . .

 

hey I have a 1000 posts!

Nice! I always perk up when I see you post Yehoodi because you are very thorough, very fair, & you know how to deliver a good argument. Congrats my friend! 

 

SW! you make a good point about fans booing their team. It is childish; if you don't like seeing the bad playing, don't go to the stadium. The players know how badly they're doing, and booing doesn't help.

 

I agree that diehard fans will support the team no matter what. I know a Bills fan on another forum who is like that. She stands by her team no  matter what. Is practically heartbroken after a loss (like this week's loss to the Jets of all teams), but doesn't give up. Says that there is always next week. I have to admire someone like that; it can't be easy. Also know other fans who are just as loyal to their teams.

 

Getting back on topic, Welker and Manning seem to have a good rapport with each other. Although, Welker has been known to drop balls occasionally. I don't think anyone will ever forget the one he dropped to end the playoffs. He does have talent, though.

 

Ellen

 

Thanks. The ironic thing is that a significant numbers of fans are not exactly perfect NFL specimens themselves meaning that they could do what they just criticized the WR, TE, DE, RB, or CB for not doing well either. It's a balance between blind allegiance and outright condemnation of your favorite football team. Yup, Welker is so elusive, smart, & savvy. A great WR to have in your security blanket corner. 

Peyton held it longer than he normally does on that one, I felt. He got a bit comfy thinking Clark held up all night long, he can continue to do so while he looks at a 3rd or 4th read and it backfired. If it was Terrell Suggs, I bet Peyton would be more aware.

 

I agree.

Precisely, Manning went to that well once too often...Gotta mix up the play calling a little bit better. And 18 did feel just a tad too cozy protection wise. Well said! 

[MAC]

I would say they have a primary back.  That doesn't mean they don't rotate the others in there quite a bit.  But the guy that see's most time is Moreno.  He's clearly their best back overall.  

 

I thought their offical depth chart for week 1 had him as #3.  Maybe I misread that or something.  Didn't know he was still hampered by injury in training camp.  

 

But it's my fault because I should have waited and seen what was going to happen before I did anything.  (Something to learn from as this was my first FF season).  But I saw that he was going to be the #3 guy and I waived him for Shonn Greene.  

 

Next time I'm gonna give it a few weeks into the season before I dump a guy like that.  

He wasn't injured so much as a known quantity "coming off injury # 234". Apparently they didn't see much benefit in putting more mileage on him in meaningless games.

 

He only has three more carries than Ball. What he HAS been is more effective - and that's something that's much harder to predict. If Hillman and Ball weren't both getting the dropsies they would clearly have more carries. By the end of the season you may not be regretting the decision so much.

 

Don't forget, the comfort level with Moreno has more to do with pass blocking than anything. But when it comes down to when they really want to run the ball, Hillman as an explosive change of pace back is going to get tons of yards, and Ball is the guy who they think has a nose for the end zone and the first down marker. They more success they have, the more they will play, and they are the future. But Moreno's 4.7 ypc and two long td runs are eye catching. It's hard to argue against him deserving the "start" for now.

[southwest1]

Sorry.

 

They used Hillman as their #1 the entire pre-season until he had a minor injury and they bumped Ball. There was never a reason to conclude that Ball would be the "primary back". Moreno was coming back from an injury - they knew what he could do, particularly in terms of pass blocking. They were experimenting with the young guys and developing them. They pointed refused to commit to anything - it's the newspapers who were trying to draw conclusions.

 

It was abundantly clear based on both last season and the varying skills of the three backs that all three would be getting playing time as long as they were effective. Who starts was always going to be largely a trivial concern. There is no primary back.

Whichever RB can slowdown a blitzing LB or pass rusher, keep Manning upright, & doesn't fumble usually starts...Provided they can dissect multiple calls at the line of scrimmage & execute the right one at a moment's notice: "Apple! Apple! Pear! Prune...Pineapple..Hut!"     

 

I wanna see 18 do that with junk food actually: "Klondike Bar! Klondike Bar! Tootsie roll...Tootsie roll...Twinkee...Twinkee...Hut...Hut...Hike...LOL! 

[Moose Of Woe]

 

I wanna see 18 do that with junk food actually: "Klondike Bar! Klondike Bar! Tootsie roll...Tootsie roll...Twinkee...Twinkee...Hut...Hut...Hike...LOL! 

 

Apple apple GO!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik6Z7bq3njI

[amfootball]

Okay... so no proof? Good, just checking.

 

You never cease to amaze.

What more proof do you want? They are targeting the wide receiver position more and have gotten more production. They have rushed for 368 yards through three games. The slot will not be the main point of emphasis as it was in the past. This is a good thing.

[-JJ-]

Out of likes but I agree. We probably wouldn't agree across the board which characteristics each is superior with but Brady has a better arm and tighter spiral...I think he does a better job at hitting guys that can run after the catch...and love how he never turns the ball over...he will check down. Peyton goes for tougher plays imo which causes more turnovers but he fits it in windows that no one can see...he throws receivers open...but he also gets them creamed sometimes lol. They both make pre-snap reads better than anyone...I do give Peyton a nod on changing plays and play calls because he does so much more before the play...but Brady is deadly against the blitz to. 7 on 7 I doubt either would ever win lol....it would go on forever. Brady has had better OLs and over the years along with a better defense early on..that is what separates them.

Great- you spent all your likes on AM :>

I agree with what you said although as you say we could probably find some disagreements.

One thing that got me years back was all the talk of Manning can read defenses better and that I disagreed with. They both read them equally well but differently. Perhaps its Manning is good at the pre snap while Brady reads better once the ball is snapped. I can't quite put my finger on it.

Also is just plain experience-like Brady once said I've seen every defense they can throw at me.

When I first saw Brady I noticed his beady eyes surveying the entire field. Like the new generation who are good at reflex video games.

[jvan1973]

What more proof do you want? They are targeting the wide receiver position more and have gotten more production. They have rushed for 368 yards through three games. The slot will not be the main point of emphasis as it was in the past. This is a good thing.

you realize slot guys are wr too?

[amfootball]

you realize slot guys are wr too?

Yep. But in the Pats offense there is quite a distinction. ;)  Welker was targeted 174 times last year. Neither Endelman or Amendola will have that many targets the way the offense is designed this year. Brady hit 8 different receivers/RBs on Sunday and the RBs gave him 158 rushing. This may be the most balanced attack they have had in years.

[bayone]

Yep. But in the Pats offense there is quite a distinction. ;)  Welker was targeted 174 times last year. Neither Endelman or Amendola will have that many targets the way the offense is designed this year. Brady hit 8 different receivers/RBs on Sunday and the RBs gave him 158 rushing. This may be the most balanced attack they have had in years.

 

true & goodnight

[Yehoodi]

you realize slot guys are wr too?

 

yes they are but AM was talking about how our offense was constructed and the slot WR ends up in the middle of the field where our two TEs where going . . . so basically the top three options that we have had over the last few years travel in the same part of the field thereby allowing the defense to tailor its plan to that portion . . . if we can get someone on the outside that is a threat and is younger than 34 year old, then we can keep the defense a little more honest . . . hopefully Dobson or Thompkins or both can develop to provide this option . . . of coarse now one of our option Aaron H. is gone for good, but that is another story and was around at draft day and when we decided on Welker . . .

 

. . .  the thinking was have the two TEs do there thing Amendola and Edelman take over Welker'r role and get one or two outside threads to spread out the defense

[AntonMcG]

yes they are but AM was talking about how our offense was constructed and the slot WR ends up in the middle of the field where our two TEs where going . . . so basically the top three options that we have had over the last few years travel in the same part of the field thereby allowing the defense to tailor its plan to that portion . . . if we can get someone on the outside that is a threat and is younger than 34 year old, then we can keep the defense a little more honest . . . hopefully Dobson or Thompkins or both can develop to provide this option . . . of coarse now one of our option Aaron H. is gone for good, but that is another story and was around at draft day and when we decided on Welker . . .

 

. . .  the thinking was have the two TEs do there thing Amendola and Edelman take over Welker'r role and get one or two outside threads to spread out the defense

 

This is simply a huge misconception on your part... there is a big difference between where a route starts and where it finishes.

[Yehoodi]

This is simply a huge misconception on your part... there is a big difference between where a route starts and where it finishes.

 

When was the last time you saw Welker spit out wide and run down the field outside the numbers . . . if so, how often does it happen relative to the rest of his routes while playing in NE? . . .  they are called slot receivers for a reason, whether you think the NFL's label is a misconception I will leave that for you to figure out on your spare time . . .

 

Regardless of what concept you have of our offense, the vast majority of Welker's, Gronk's and Ahern's routes when down the middle of the field . . . i.e. inside the numbers . . . which if fine if you are successful, but a teams primary offense if located in a portion of the field it can be predictable . . . and the defense can tailor to that location . . . surely a gronk-ahern-welker in the middle of the field is very likely more effective that a well balance placement of college sophomores WRs, and we were effective with it . . . but we are simply trying to change this type offense . . . well we have always been just have not found a good outside split out wide WR since Moss left . . . 

 

The problem is if you bring in Amendola you take up a WR roster spot but with a player who primary role is in an area already saturated with teammates, see the problem . . . which might be find if you have one or two stud split out wide WRs (i.e. Moss) . . . but one can not always get this and will have to make to with FAs, trades and draft and one needs to have a few players on the team to develop . . . one can't just draft Dobson and put all of ones eggs in his basket hoping he will be the be all and end all outside the numbers . . . you have to take a flier on at least two; and as such, limits ones roster spots . . .

 

teams only carry 6 WRs, and with Slater being basically a ST guy, and great at it, that leaves us with only 5 WRs roster spots with Amendola and Edelman taking two of them, thereby leaving only three left . . . if our 3 TEs are in the middle, then we have 6 of our 9 offense roster spots tide up in the middle of the field, . . . why would we want to go to 7 out of 9?  again if we had Moss and say a backup for him, maybe we can get away it on 2 of 9 dedicated to the outside . . . but without a proven wide out, one really has to safe 3 spots for this area . . .

[oldunclemark]

Wow , never knew he was this good. Why the heck wasn't Grigson smart enough to sign this guy. If I knew how to set up a poll , I would do one for how many TD's he scores this year. My guess would be 18.

The real question is: Why didn't NE keep him?

[dw49]

The real question is: Why didn't NE keep him?

 

 

I was really trying to "troll" on the Pat fans a bit. Welker really is a nice receiver , but I do understand NE not resigning him long term considering their present cap situation. 

[amfootball]

Looks like Amendola is very close to 100 percent. Would be nice to have him and Gronk back for Sunday.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9721752/danny-amendola-new-england-patriots-anticipates-being-100-percent-shortly

[southwest1]

Looks like Amendola is very close to 100 percent. Would be nice to have him and Gronk back for Sunday.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9721752/danny-amendola-new-england-patriots-anticipates-being-100-percent-shortly

Exactly, if both Amendola & Gronk get back this week or next, NE will be just fine. WR Kenbrell Thompkins is gonna be a star. I can feel it! Keep on an eye on that potential superstar. 

 

Gronk is a Beast! I love this kid! I don't care for his off field party antics, but I love watching him in action on the field. 

 

http://www.patriots.com/media-center/videos/Patriots-Today---Gronks-Wednesday-update/28388556-3cec-47c9-b2c6-5b1cef286119

[southwest1]

I just watched Danny Amendola's press conference in the locker room. I always marvel at how NE players always speak from the same script. Kill your opponent with kindness, speak in generic terms, use slogans like "day to day" which gives no rival any read or ammunition on the team, & just go out & crush your competition. I use to hate that I could never get a read on NE. Now, I actually enjoy the calculated, deceptive nature of it. Not evil or underhanded just thorough & precise in their execution. 

 

Bill Belichick should take some credit for Browns QB Brian Hoyer's development too. It just proves that owner Art Modell should have never fired Bill in the 1st place from Cleveland.  What an i-diot. Doubt the Grey Hoodie at your own peril. 

 

Plus, your throw back uniforms are still pretty kick caboose IMO. I love that vintage look. Dynasty 13 has that emblem as his avatar here. For me, it's a toss up for favorite vintage uniform between the Patriots & the San Diego "Super Chargers" power blue uniforms. NE wins by a slight fraction of a hair IMO. 

[Susie Q]

Sorry I was bored and wanted to see AM football kick me in the stones. Really was trying to get even with him for immediately saying the 49ers stink. I don't even think the final gun went off before he had to get that out. 

AM football is a she............Thought you might like to know

[chad72]

Looks like Amendola is very close to 100 percent. Would be nice to have him and Gronk back for Sunday.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9721752/danny-amendola-new-england-patriots-anticipates-being-100-percent-shortly

 

 

The first game after an injury always comes with chemistry questions for any wideout or TE in an offense. I probably won't watch the game because I have got to take care of things at home but I am sure the dome is going to be rocking. You are probably going to see a desperate Falcons team, IMO.

 

The funny stat is the Pats have taken a step back in run D that they have been known for, and the Falcons have taken a step back in pass D that they have been known for. From a fantasy football perspective, when I look at the numbers, it has been quite the turnaround on pass D for the Pats and run D for the Falcons.

 

Just like how the Colts' OL is top notch in run blocking, like how the Cowboys' OL is top notch in run blocking and how the mighty Giants OL has fallen from last year, every year is different w.r.t so many small aspects of a team.

[Snowglobe]

The real question is: Why didn't NE keep him?

 

NE needs an outside receiver more than a a slot guy. I mean worst case scenario, even if the Pats didn't get Amendola, Edelman would've done just fine (I think they signed him after Amendola too). I'm sure the front office is tired of acquiring receivers on the wrong side of 30. The Patriots have been historically bad at drafting receivers. Most of them come through FA/trade in their later years. I think they targeted Wayne last year too but Wayne is still very good.

 

I hope the Pats finally get a Harrison/Wayne type of guy for the long term. Hopefully its Dobson.

[dw49]

AM football is a she............Thought you might like to know

 

 

 

You mean I was trolling a girl ? Gosh.. I would never want to do that.

[southwest1]

The first game after an injury always comes with chemistry questions for any wideout or TE in an offense. I probably won't watch the game because I have got to take care of things at home but I am sure the dome is going to be rocking. You are probably going to see a desperate Falcons team, IMO.

 

The funny stat is the Pats have taken a step back in run D that they have been known for, and the Falcons have taken a step back in pass D that they have been known for. From a fantasy football perspective, when I look at the numbers, it has been quite the turnaround on pass D for the Pats and run D for the Falcons.

 

Just like how the Colts' OL is top notch in run blocking, like how the Cowboys' OL is top notch in run blocking and how the mighty Giants OL has fallen from last year, every year is different w.r.t so many small aspects of a team.

I just don't trust Atlanta on defense though. Other than Osi Umenyiora, who is really a threat to sack Tom Brady? Nobody. As long as Vince Wilfork is healthy, NE's run defense will be fine. 

[Susie Q]

You mean I was trolling a girl ? Gosh.. I would never want to do that.

Oh come on you know you were having fun.

[southwest1]

AM football is a she............Thought you might like to know

No kidding! Cool. SW1 has no problem with that. I like that. Women have just as much insightful feedback to offer as men do on the NFL. The more the merrier I always say. Thanks Susie Q. 

[dw49]

Oh come on you know you were having fun.

 

 

Yes you're right . I was bored and just wanted to tick the Pat fans off with this thread. Anyway , I'm really surprised that she is really a girl.