Why Peyton Manning Can Become The G.O.A.T.

[Goodtimes]

Lets begin this with the preface that QB's in today's world are judged by their playoff success and not the million other factors that equates to greatness.

 

The first point doubters will try to point at is Peyton Manning's playoff record. Lets begin with a few points. For one, Peyton has lost 4 playoff games when his team has taken the lead in the 4th quarter, with two losses coming after leading IN THE FINAL MINUTE (2010 Jets - 2012 Ravens). Furthermore, Manning's playoff teams are 1-5 when they do not commit a turnover, the rest of the league is 50-5; talk about a string of bad luck. The likes of Billy Volek, Jay Fiedler and Mark Sanchez have been able to come back in the 4th quarter after Manning has taken the lead. Second, Peyton has advanced to the playoffs nearly every year of his career, a feat most QB's would revel. Its easy to point at Drew Brees playoff record or Eli Manning's but Brees for example, has only made the playoffs 5 times in 12 seasons. Your playoff record can be hurt if you're not in them. Peyton's greatness is shown in how he has been able to make the playoffs consistently, even when the team around him hasn't had the talent to get him very far in them.

 

With that said, Peyton has lead talent-depelted teams to the playoffs a couple of different times. The 2010 Colts, featuring the likes of Justin Tryon and Blair White, managed to win 10 games thanks to Peyton Manning carrying his team enough down the stretch to a playoff berth. If any other QB was the starter that season, I highly doubt the Colts make the playoffs that year. Namely because the following season, with a lot of the the same roster as the year before, the Colts finished 2-14 without Manning. The general consenus is that the 2011 Colts could of won at least 10 games with a healthy Peyton Manning. The 2008 Colts started 3-4 and managed to win 9 straight thanks to another MVP season from Peyton Manning. That team featured a lack luster running game that forced Peyton to carry most of the load.

 

But the real reason Peyton Manning can be the greatest of all time is simple. If he leads the Broncos to a Super Bowl win this season, he will be the first QB to ever win a Super Bowl with two different teams. He in all likelyhood will own his 5th MVP given his hot start to this season. He is already on pace to own EVERY MAJOR PASSING RECORD in the game and is already on pace to shatter his own and Tom Brady's single season passing records.

 

Just a comment, I said here last week that Peyton had the best set of receivers he has ever worked with in Denver this year. Yes, that includes when he had Harrison, Wayne and Stokely. ESPN today lists Denver first in its power poll and they said that this was the best group of receivers Peyton has ever had.

[jvan1973]

Just a comment, I said here last week that Peyton had the best set of receivers he has ever worked with in Denver this year. Yes, that includes when he had Harrison, Wayne and Stokely. ESPN today lists Denver first in its power poll and they said that this was the best group of receivers Peyton has ever had.

hyperbole. Marvin and Reggie are hof bound.

[Goodtimes]

hyperbole. Marvin and Reggie are hof bound.

 

Talk to USA Today about it. Wes Welker is hof bound too and both of these wide receivers in Denver maybe and based on last week, the tight end too.... Marvin and Reggie were never together in Reggie's prime. Both of these receivers are young and about the same age.

[amfootball]

hyperbole. Marvin and Reggie are hof bound.

And James too. Those Colts teams were special offensively. This Denver team is not in the same class. Decker could not tie Reggie's shoes IMO.

[manning2dallas]

hated that niner team but damn how many guys would you take over joe montana in a big game or a game that is on the line

[Dustin]

Just a comment, I said here last week that Peyton had the best set of receivers he has ever worked with in Denver this year. Yes, that includes when he had Harrison, Wayne and Stokely. ESPN today lists Denver first in its power poll and they said that this was the best group of receivers Peyton has ever had.

what's John Clayton's take on the subject?

[Goodtimes]

what's John Clayton's take on the subject?

 

I don't know but I do know that USA Today's listed Denver first in its power poll and mentioned that Peyton has his best receiving cast ever. I happen to agree with that. The Colts are listed 13th and it was mentioned that their defense and offensive line is still suspect. I think John Clayton would agree about Peyton's current receivers.

[jvan1973]

I don't know but I do know that USA Today's listed Denver first in its power poll and mentioned that Peyton has his best receiving cast ever. I happen to agree with that. The Colts are listed 13th and it was mentioned that their defense and offensive line is still suspect. I think John Clayton would agree about Peyton's current receivers.

what does Peytons weapons have to do with the colts power ranking?

[southwest1]

I think we know who the goat is now . . . lol . . .

Bonus points for the picture of Brady holding a real goat Yehoodi! The visual imagery is quite hilarious actually.  I respect both Manning & Brady equally & I really don't like getting bogged down in stats vs SB rings. I just acknowledge that both field generals are exceptional & move on. 

[Moose Of Woe]

hated that niner team but darn how many guys would you take over joe montana in a big game or a game that is on the line

 I'd take quite a few QB's, throw them on those 49'er teams, and watch the championships roll in. They were loaded to the point they paid for it dearly after their championship years. They haven't been relevant since until last season.

 

.... it was mentioned that their defense and offensive line is still suspect.

Calling the offensive line suspect is a compliment. They're atrocious. Again.

 

 Decker could not tie Reggie's shoes IMO.

Decker needs to focus less on his supermodel GF and spend more time putting stick'em on his hands. I think he went 2 catches for 7 targets and wound up fumbling one he caught. (Out of bounds) He also dropped an easy TD. To say he's inconsistent would be an understatement. He's certainly no Wayne much less Harrison.

 

I'd say 2002-2005 Indy was easily better than Den last season on offense. However, 2013 Denver might give them a run for their money. The addition of my man crush Welker alone is huge. Orange Julius Thomas opens up the playbook as well. Hopefully he stays healthy unlike the past two seasons where his missed all/most of them.

 

As I see it:

2002-2005 Colts:

Marvin

Reggie (Not in prime yet)

Clark (Usually healthy, though I think he missed a stretch here or there.)

Stokely (when healthy. Almost always injured.)

Edge (when healthy. Missed quite a bit of time.) 

Great pass and run blocking O-line. (Biggest advantage imo)

Manning

 

2013 Broncos:

Thomas (WR)

Decker

Thomas (TE) - If he stays healthy.

Welker

No running game. Mediocre at best.

Decent pass blocking o-line, poor run blocking. (See no run game.)

Manning is arguably better now than he was in Indy. Certainly more experienced.

 

It's pretty close. The biggest "Edge" was our running game back then which is practically non existent in Denver. (And modern Indy.)

[southwest1]

The weird thing about the GOAT label is this: Are we talking about the lone performance during SB appearances alone or a sustained period of flawless excellence over a decade or more? 2 separate questions with 2 distinctly different answers.

 

I tend to view careers in their totality, the length & duration of that perfection, the ability to adapt to changing NFL rules, & the pieces the QB in question had around them. Neither Peyton or Brady have anything to be ashamed of or hang their head in shame. And as much as legacies get judged in the post season, there is something to be said for getting into the Playoffs nearly every single season like an automatic reflex. You can't be great or have a chance to be great if you don't win at least 10-11 games per year. Too many people seem to dismiss that. 10-11 wins per season is not easy & nothing in this league is guaranteed.

 

Can't we just appreciate greatness when we see it & bask in the glow of sheer amazement? We don't do this with painters, sculptures, & musicians...We don't say their are only 2 of the greatest architects in the world & everyone else in this profession simply sucks. Why do we do this with NFL quarterbacks? 

[Goodtimes]

what does Peytons weapons have to do with the colts power ranking?

 

He can't make 7 TD passes if he doesn't have the receivers to catch them. There offense is the best in the NFL. The defense will come along when a couple of players come back. Has it been so long that you have not seen Peyton carry a really bad defense into the playoffs? Well, Denver is not a bad defense when Von is back (just in time for Indy) and everyone else is back too.

[Goodtimes]

 I'd take quite a few QB's, throw them on those 49'er teams, and watch the championships roll in. They were loaded to the point they paid for it dearly after their championship years. They haven't been relevant since until last season.

 

Calling the offensive line suspect is a compliment. They're atrocious. Again.

 

Decker needs to focus less on his supermodel GF and spend more time putting stick'em on his hands. I think he went 2 catches for 7 targets and wound up fumbling one he caught. (Out of bounds) He also dropped an easy TD. To say he's inconsistent would be an understatement. He's certainly no Wayne much less Harrison.

 

I'd say 2002-2005 Indy was easily better than Den last season on offense. However, 2013 Denver might give them a run for their money. The addition of my man crush Welker alone is huge. Orange Julius Thomas opens up the playbook as well. Hopefully he stays healthy unlike the past two seasons where his missed all/most of them.

 

As I see it:

2002-2005 Colts:

Marvin

Reggie (Not in prime yet)

Clark (Usually healthy, though I think he missed a stretch here or there.)

Stokely (when healthy. Almost always injured.)

Edge (when healthy. Missed quite a bit of time.) 

Great pass and run blocking O-line. (Biggest advantage imo)

Manning

 

2013 Broncos:

Thomas (WR)

Decker

Thomas (TE) - If he stays healthy.

Welker

No running game. Mediocre at best.

Decent pass blocking o-line, poor run blocking. (See no run game.)

Manning is arguably better now than he was in Indy. Certainly more experienced.

 

It's pretty close. The biggest "Edge" was our running game back then which is practically non existent in Denver. (And modern Indy.)

 

You will see that run game come along too. This is a good offensive line. They have some youth in the running backs.

[southwest1]

Look, it's no secret that I love Peyton Manning & I desperately want him to be the 1st QB to win 2 rings with 2 different NFL franchises. If this doesn't happen, does that diminish Manning's legacy? Absolutely not. Now, SW1 will admit that I truly believe that there are different levels of greatness & part of the reason I push 18 so hard & seldom cut him slack is that I know Yoda can reach this goal. It's like parents who teach their kids to ride bikes & swim. Do they want them to crash or drown? Of course not. Our parents push their children to rise above their fears, achieve independence, & feel liberated.

 

I know that Peyton does not listen to SW1. I'm not his brother, father, or mother. I realize that. But, I also know that in both our friends & our idols we see ourselves. And I need my friends to push me & demand more & if we see that relentless drive to succeed in our idols despite the obstacles before them nothing stands in our way either.

 

"...To strive, to seek, to find, & not to yield"  ["Ulysses" poem by Alfred Lloyd Tennyson]....

[Gramz]

The weird thing about the GOAT label is this: Are we talking about the lone performance during SB appearances alone or a sustained period of flawless excellence over a decade or more? 2 separate questions with 2 distinctly different answers.

 

I tend to view careers in their totality, the length & duration of that perfection, the ability to adapt to changing NFL rules, & the pieces the QB in question had around them. Neither Peyton or Brady have anything to be ashamed of or hang their head in shame. And as much as legacies get judged in the post season, there is something to be said for getting into the Playoffs nearly every single season like an automatic reflex. You can't be great or have a chance to be great if you don't win at least 10-11 games per year. Too many people seem to dismiss that. 10-11 wins per season is not easy & nothing in this league is guaranteed.

 

Can't we just appreciate greatness when we see it & bask in the glow of sheer amazement? We don't do this with painters, sculptures, & musicians...We don't say their are only 2 of the greatest architects in the world & everyone else in this profession simply sucks. Why do we do this with NFL quarterbacks? 

There have been Several QB's over the years who could be considered, rightfully so, for various reasons, for this Title.

 

Every Fan of the Game has his or her own candidate.

And in the End, Who Ultimately Decides...???

 

For Me, Up to this point in my life, there is ONLY one that gets my blood pumping, Each and Every time he takes the Field, and I am constantly and  continually amazed at his love and commitment for the game and his continued  accomplishments.  I don't need anyone else to feel the same way, and I am not here to try to change anyone elses mind.

 

You know who it is ;)

[Moose Of Woe]

For Me, Up to this point in my life, there is ONLY one that gets my blood pumping, Each and Every time he takes the Field, and I am constantly and  continually amazed at his love and commitment for the game and his continued  accomplishments.  I don't need anyone else to feel the same way, and I am not here to try to change anyone elses mind.

 

You know who it is ;)

 

Curtis Painter!

[Gramz]

Curtis Painter!

 you mind reader you...!!!!        Cheers

[Moose Of Woe]

You will see that run game come along too. This is a good offensive line. They have some youth in the running backs.

 

I hope you're right.

[southwest1]

There have been Several QB's over the years who could be considered, rightfully so, for various reasons, for this Title.

 

Every Fan of the Game has his or her own candidate.

And in the End, Who Ultimately Decides...???

 

For Me, Up to this point in my life, there is ONLY one that gets my blood pumping, Each and Every time he takes the Field, and I am constantly and  continually amazed at his love and commitment for the game and his continued  accomplishments.  I don't need anyone else to feel the same way, and I am not here to try to change anyone elses mind.

 

You know who it is ;)

I respect your position Gramz & you are quite right Peyton's love of the game & honoring former greats that played before him is what sets 18 apart. Hand written letters to NFL players that he respected for playing the game the right way & wanting to wear Johnny Unitas shoes to honor his predecessor is just a few reasons that I admire Manning. He is always humble, gracious, & kind to everyone win, lose, or draw & I do appreciate his friendship with Tom Brady his #1 rival. 

 

You are hands down the biggest Peyton Manning supporter I know Gramz along with my brother Bayone. I admire that devotion & loyalty from both of you a great deal. 

 

Stick to your guns Gramz. I will never question your conviction. You certainly don't need to justify Peyton's HOF stature to me. I don't lead the choir, but I am singing his praises in the same church pew. 

[Gramz]

I respect your position Gramz & you are quite right Peyton's love of the game & honoring former greats that played before him is what sets 18 apart. Hand written to NFL players that he respected for playing the game the right way & wanting to wear Johnny Unitas shoes to honor his predecessor is just a few reasons that I admire Manning. He is always humble, gracious, & kind to everyone win, lose, or draw & I do appreciate his friendship with Tom Brady his #1 rival. 

 

You are hands down the biggest Peyton Manning supporter I know Gramz along with my brother Bayone. I admire that devotion & loyalty from both of you a great deal. 

 my kids would agree.....   They think I need an intervention...  

[southwest1]

 my kids would agree.....   They think I need an intervention...  

I don't know a cat named Peyton, a spectacular Manning quilt, & a 1 of kind Colts den in your home...It seems perfectly normal to me anyway. What's over the top exactly?  Only teasing Gramz! 

[Colts_Fan12]

my kids would agree..... They think I need an intervention...

I'm right there with you Gramz he is the GOAT IMO it's gonna take some future QB to beat him cause the ones before and the ones that have been around with him aren't gonna do it

[MAC]

I prefer vanilla and vanilla was the original ice cream. ;)

Actually too much chocolate makes my heart race now-a-days, so as much as I adore chocolate I lean towards a vanilla/ORANGE swirl we get at a local shop.

 

So now I've completely lost the analogy, AND I'd kill for some ice cream.   Have to settle for yogurt.

[DILLIGAFER]

Its ok Gramz.. get this.. I got into a massive fight with a 'former friend' who told me my liking Peyton too much needed Psyciatric intervention and I'm sick because of a Fathead I have in my home, watching too much football, and the #18 sticker wrapped around a Colts horse shoe on my trucks back window. wth over?! Now, this is coming from a, what I know now to be a Prescription pill addict, Vindictive, Sucubus, Felon, Nut Job.

Needless to say, it got bad.. I mean really bad and I told her if she ever spoke to me again, she'd Physcially loose her ability to talk.

'Nobody talks about Peyton that way to me!!'

[Gramz]

Its ok Gramz.. get this.. I got into a massive fight with a 'former friend' who told me my liking Peyton too much needed Psyciatric intervention.

You my friend, just might need that  

 

Me, on the other hand.....

[dynasty13]

Look, it's no secret that I love Peyton Manning & I desperately want him to be the 1st QB to win 2 rings with 2 different NFL franchises. If this doesn't happen, does that diminish Manning's legacy? Absolutely not. 

 

I've wondered about this ever since he signed with Denver and people started saying talking about how 'winning a Superbowl with 2 different teams would prove he's the best'. I don't quite understand what is so much more impressive about winning with two different teams instead of winning multiple with one. Especially when you essentially 'chose' which team would be your second based on how good their chances were to win. 

 

Winning a championship is the ultimate accomplishment regardless of what color jersey you have on. I just reject the notion that winning with two teams is supposed to become some checkmark in a player's column that people may put more value in. Doesnt make sense to me. And I dont just have this opinion because its Peyton in the GOAT debate...I'm just speaking in general.

[Gramz]

I've wondered about this ever since he signed with Denver and people started saying talking about how 'winning a Superbowl with 2 different teams would prove he's the best'. I don't quite understand what is so much more impressive about winning with two different teams instead of winning multiple with one. Especially when you essentially 'chose' which team would be your second based on how good their chances were to win. 

 

Winning a championship is the ultimate accomplishment regardless of what color jersey you have on. I just reject the notion that winning with two teams is supposed to become some checkmark in a player's column that people may put more value in. Doesnt make sense to me. And I dont just have this opinion because its Peyton in the GOAT debate...I'm just speaking in general.

I'm guessing because it's another one of those things that No-one has done before..??   Correct me if I'm wrong.

[dynasty13]

I'm guessing because it's another one of those things that No-one has done before..??   Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Has a quarterback ever won a Superbowl without completing a single pass in the big game? I mean, that's never been done before...just because something hasnt been done doesnt automatically make it 'better'.

 

My point is that Peyton's circumstance is not typical. When is the last time a quarterback was cut from a team when he was still one of the best in the league? And because he was a free agent, he could just sign with a team that had a great shot to win. It just doesnt happen...when a quarterback changes teams its usually because they get traded or they are at the end of their careers and dont have much left. 

 

If say...Aaron Rodgers was just cut this week, and he chose to then sign with the Texans because they were a contender and then they went on to win the Superbowl...is it somehow more impressive than if he had stayed in Green Bay and won another there???

 

That's all I'm saying....that winning a championship is impressive period...I just dont put 'extra' stock in it if a player does it after choosing to go to the team that gave him the best shot.

[Gramz]

Has a quarterback ever won a Superbowl without completing a single pass in the big game? I mean, that's never been done before...

 

My point is that Peyton's circumstance is not typical. When is the last time a quarterback was cut from a team when he was still one of the best in the league? And because he was a free agent, he could just sign with a team that had a great shot to win. It just doesnt happen...when a quarterback changes teams its usually because they get traded or they are at the end of their careers and dont have much left. 

 

If say...Aaron Rodgers was just cut this week, and he chose to then sign with the Texans because they were a contender and then they went on to win the Superbowl...is it somehow more impressive than if he had stayed in Green Bay and won another there???

 

That's all I'm saying....that winning a championship is impressive period...I just dont put 'extra' stock in it if a player does it after choosing to go to the team that gave him the best shot.

Fair Enough.  

[Gramz]

Has a quarterback ever won a Superbowl without completing a single pass in the big game? I mean, that's never been done before...just because something hasnt been done doesnt automatically make it 'better'.

 

Now that would be something,  wouldn't it...???  

 

 

 

When is the last time a quarterback was cut from a team when he was still one of the best in the league? And because he was a free agent, he could just sign with a team that had a great shot to win. It just doesnt happen...when a quarterback changes teams its usually because they get traded or they are at the end of their careers and dont have much left. 

 

True statement  

 

 

[amfootball]

Has a quarterback ever won a Superbowl without completing a single pass in the big game? I mean, that's never been done before...just because something hasnt been done doesnt automatically make it 'better'.

 

My point is that Peyton's circumstance is not typical. When is the last time a quarterback was cut from a team when he was still one of the best in the league? And because he was a free agent, he could just sign with a team that had a great shot to win. It just doesnt happen...when a quarterback changes teams its usually because they get traded or they are at the end of their careers and dont have much left. 

 

If say...Aaron Rodgers was just cut this week, and he chose to then sign with the Texans because they were a contender and then they went on to win the Superbowl...is it somehow more impressive than if he had stayed in Green Bay and won another there???

 

That's all I'm saying....that winning a championship is impressive period...I just dont put 'extra' stock in it if a player does it after choosing to go to the team that gave him the best shot.

You think Denver was a good choice? I think it was the worst decision he could have made. The niners were the clear choice if he wanted more rings. I think he might have went 19-0 on last year's team playing in balmy SF in the playoffs vs. frigid Denver. If he does win one with this Denver team that I still don't think is close to his Indy teams in the mid '00s and beats a team like the niners then I absolutely would put more stock in it. Fox is kind of a bafoon as HC IMO and how about Miller? Goodness gracious.

 

I don't think it makes him the GOAT if he wins another one but had he gone to the niners then I would agree with you. I think he chose Denver because of his affection for Elway which I still don't get. But to each his own.

[Yehoodi]

You think Denver was a good choice? I think it was the worst decision he could have made. The niners were the clear choice if he wanted more rings. I think he might have went 19-0 on last year's team playing in balmy SF in the playoffs vs. frigid Denver. If he does win one with this Denver team that I still don't think is close to his Indy teams in the mid '00s and beats a team like the niners then I absolutely would put more stock in it. Fox is kind of a bafoon as HC IMO and how about Miller? Goodness gracious.

 

I don't think it makes him the GOAT if he wins another one but had he gone to the niners then I would agree with you. I think he chose Denver because of his affection for Elway which I still don't get. But to each his own.

 

Yes but SF did not want Manning, they just brought him in for evaluation . . . SF had the same problem as Indy with Manning & Luck, do you really want to bring in a aging QB just for a few seasons and release your potential future in QBs in Smith and Kap.   It sounds great but not every team is looking for a HOF QB at the end of his career . . .

 

given what he had left in choices, Denver was not as bad and it may it seems . . . they were 7-4 with Tebow and won a playoff game, so they were not chumps . . . just need the help of a QB, as they did not have one in the wings, so Manning was a solid fit . . .

[Yehoodi]

I've wondered about this ever since he signed with Denver and people started saying talking about how 'winning a Superbowl with 2 different teams would prove he's the best'. I don't quite understand what is so much more impressive about winning with two different teams instead of winning multiple with one. Especially when you essentially 'chose' which team would be your second based on how good their chances were to win. 

 

Winning a championship is the ultimate accomplishment regardless of what color jersey you have on. I just reject the notion that winning with two teams is supposed to become some checkmark in a player's column that people may put more value in. Doesnt make sense to me. And I dont just have this opinion because its Peyton in the GOAT debate...I'm just speaking in general.

 

I agree with you 100% . . . but it is one those political things, has a nice ring to it . . . "win with two different teams" . . . they even said the same thing about Montana, even though KC were no chumps when he arrived . . .

 

I think most people use the phrase as there is an inference that the player went to a non contender and brought them up to being a contender and are the reason why they win . . . its not like he went to the Raiders and brought them up from the perennial cellar . . .

 

And I do agree with you as he choose where he went as opposed to being traded to a wasteland of a team . . .  

 

Interestingly enough sometimes when players have long careers, like Elway and Brady, they end up playing with a completely new team at the end of their careers which is different than when they started . . . other than BB, Brady has a new team, although the same jersey . . .

[DILLIGAFER]

You my friend, just might need that

Me, on the other hand.....

there were other problems brewing.. that comment was the cherry on top and it didnt end well.

[amfootball]

Yes but SF did not want Manning, they just brought him in for evaluation . . . SF had the same problem as Indy with Manning & Luck, do you really want to bring in a aging QB just for a few seasons and release your potential future in QBs in Smith and Kap.   It sounds great but not every team is looking for a HOF QB at the end of his career . . .

 

given what he had left in choices, Denver was not as bad and it may it seems . . . they were 7-4 with Tebow and won a playoff game, so they were not chumps . . . just need the help of a QB, as they did not have one in the wings, so Manning was a solid fit . . .

I never heard SF did not want him. I know Harbaugh tried to back peddle after Manning chose Denver so Smith would not feel slightly but I remember Steve Young reporting the SF absolutely wanted Manning but he told them he was going with Denver. Most at the time felt Elway's pull swayed Manning along with the fact that Harbaugh would not have had let him have full control of the O.

[amfootball]

I agree with you 100% . . . but it is one those political things, has a nice ring to it . . . "win with two different teams" . . . they even said the same thing about Montana, even though KC were no chumps when he arrived . . .

 

I think most people use the phrase as there is an inference that the player went to a non contender and brought them up to being a contender and are the reason why they win . . . its not like he went to the Raiders and brought them up from the perennial cellar . . .

 

And I do agree with you as he choose where he went as opposed to being traded to a wasteland of a team . . .  

 

Interestingly enough sometimes when players have long careers, like Elway and Brady, they end up playing with a completely new team at the end of their careers which is different than when they started . . . other than BB, Brady has a new team, although the same jersey . . .

To the bolded, Brady has taken four different teams to the SB - '01, 0'3, '07, '11

[Yehoodi]

that is interesting, 1 thing, and dont know how to look this up nor have the time , but in games even without Sorgi in garbage time peyton if i remember right & I may be wrong  would turn style to more run off the clock to Via the run than a passing attack as that was Colt style of play 

 

and if u sub the 1st playoff game Vs denver , for that 16th game he played first  series in and sorgi got his 1 TD Vs Denver in that 16th game, Peyton got 4 in the playoffs which of course is just assumption, but he probably would of got a few if played in regular season too Vs same team, but of course thats an assumption , 

 

also again in those 1st 15 games missing over 1 quarter of Lion game where he already threw for 6 I would assume he could of thrown for more

 

when u miss more time in 1 game rather than coming in at  tail end of more games, chances are better u can pass for more TDs if playing for a longer time in said game esp against such a weak opponent u were having a great gaame against

 

I really may be explaining this point poorly and sorry  if I am

 

But as its a team game , so have to give credit to

 

I give credit as well to Moss's incredible manhandling to catch the ball as he accounted for nearly half the TD's,

 

and to Peytons   greaat   3 balanced    wide receivers attack

 

In the end they both are simply  2 of the greatest  great QB's ever and the fact that this discussion is still going on just supports it and will for years , as will the future and past greats that shouild be included

 

For me its  Unitas,  3 MVP's  3 Championships ( 1st few years 1957 through 1960   MVP award  by associated press  was called player of the year thats why jim brown and unitas both actually won 3 times .in 1961 ap v changed name of award to MVP, but was same award and ap lists then in same table.. this I had from old my colts web  site so didnt have to look up   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Most_Valuable_Player_Award )))

 

Thats it for me wish me Luck, Have a late Cat scan for neck &  Dr doubts will be a good one , only question realkly is how bad , and how many points of stenosis are significant, last time  , 2 years back c 3 & c 7 stenosis returned and lately legs much weaker and neck pain increased , original surgery & post op infection over 5 vertebrae was  back in 1988

 

I just did it by hand looking at the play by plays tab on NFL.com game day logs . . . I first found out what games Sorgi and Cassel played by looking at their stats on Yahoo sports, once I knew which game they played in I just went to the 8 or so games they both played in the game day logs on NFL.com and took notes from there . . .

 

Yah, again, I just wanted to put in perspective the first 15 games . . . and yes both teams acted the same way . . . as you indicated the colts ran a slow down offense to run down the clock and thus shorten the games and number of remaining possession, and thus the pain for the opponents as there would be fewer possessions left in the game for them to defend . . . pats did the same thing . . .but if we look at the games together we see a consistent pattern between the two teams . . . run the clock out, backups play, a possession or two where some might say the starter should not have been in the game and so on . . .

 

when I look at the two years, I find it nice to just look at the first 15 games as comparisons . . . yes Manning sat out game 16, but we don't know how many TDs he could of gotten . . . so looking at the first 15 is a nice way to compare . . . it is too bad that he sat out . . . . but at the same time we had a game in a monsoon in December (so one team rest its starter and you miss a game, and one team doesn't cover its stadium and you have to play in the elements) . . . also one way that I look at it is the fact that overall the pats punch ball in the endzone about 8-9 more times, so for me the overall TDs is just as important as the number through the air . . .

 

Barry, I hope your Cat Scan came out okay

[Yehoodi]

To the bolded, Brady has taken four different teams to the SB - '01, 0'3, '07, '11

 

yes and no . .. 01 and 03 were very similar and 07 had a lot of the core players from 01-04 . . . and 11 had some of the 07 players  . . .

 

there were only a few players on both 01/11, I think only Light Faulk and Brady . . . but now there is only Wilfork from the 04 team . . .

[bayone]

I agree with you 100% . . . but it is one those political things, has a nice ring to it . . . "win with two different teams" . . . they even said the same thing about Montana, even though KC were no chumps when he arrived . . .

 

I think most people use the phrase as there is an inference that the player went to a non contender and brought them up to being a contender and are the reason why they win . . . its not like he went to the Raiders and brought them up from the perennial cellar . . .

 

And I do agree with you as he choose where he went as opposed to being traded to a wasteland of a team . . .  

 

Interestingly enough sometimes when players have long careers, like Elway and Brady, they end up playing with a completely new team at the end of their careers which is different than when they started . . . other than BB, Brady has a new team, although the same jersey . . .

 

Unitas traded  to Chargers was heart breaking

 

Tidbit, we all know Elway often trades down and said would have this year but sly was to ggod a grab

 

anyway here is the point, 3 drafts back to get Rahim More I believe but could be wrong thet traded back with San Fran

 

with the pick San Fran got they took  Colin Kaepernick ,

 

if Denver Picked him they'd have their current &  future QB , tons more cap room, wouldnt of needed to trade picks to get Brock as 2nd pick last year, could of used all cap space from signing Maning for big time free agents & maybe Manning ends up with San fran

 

thing is Manning taught WR how to run routes etc post tebow and Kappy would  not of had Harbourgh to learn from and Alex smith to wattch , only Tebow

 

​Hindsight  option are crazy hypotheticals

[bayone]

I never heard SF did not want him. I know Harbaugh tried to back peddle after Manning chose Denver so Smith would not feel slightly but I remember Steve Young reporting the SF absolutely wanted Manning but he told them he was going with Denver. Most at the time felt Elway's pull swayed Manning along with the fact that Harbaugh would not have had let him have full control of the O.

 

agreed , thats why also almost traded smith awaiting news where Manning was going