Its not Caldwell'd fault

[dn4192]

Really, what has he done to prove the opposite then? Sure, a good coach needs talent too, but I think this year shows how much was the talent and how little was the coach. Other than Peyton, we should be better than last year. We've been right in the last 3 games. Yet due to poor coaching, we failed to make the changes that needed to be made and lost all 3 of those games (I know, this is opinion, but I think it's a fair thing to say). So, while I partially agree that coaches are only as good as the players that they have, I also believe that this team has much more talent than it is showing this year, which is due in large part to the coaching.

Even with Peyton at 100% we might be 2-2 at this point. With Peyton we still lose to Houston and Pitts. I would also wonder if we beat TB on the road. This team right now is not that good, and young in some very key positions. So this idea that we are where we are because of having bad coaching isn't true.

[Coltsman1788]

Caldwell's expression is always blank. Therefore when the team sucks or he makes a bad decision, people will impute upon him the expression that they want to. The man can't help how he looks or his demeanor but he can work on being a better coach and having at least adequate game managing abilities, i.e. knowing when/when not to call a time out; knowing when to challenge a play without us having to hire a Jim Tressel;confronting sorry coordinators such as Larry Coyer, and having the balls to play who he feels should start without cowering to the Polians.

He's got a mulligan this year regardless because of Peyton's absence so we are stuck with him for at least another year if not for the duration of the Manning era.

[dn4192]

Caldwell's expression is always blank. Therefore when the team sucks or he makes a bad decision, people will impute upon him the expression that they want to. The man can't help how he looks or his demeanor but he can work on being a better coach and having at least adequate game managing abilities, i.e. knowing when/when not to call a time out; knowing when to challenge a play without us having to hire a Jim Tressel;confronting sorry coordinators such as Larry Coyer, and having the balls to play who he feels should start without cowering to the Polians.

He's got a mulligan this year regardless because of Peyton's absence so we are stuck with him for at least another year if not for the duration of the Manning era.

It's amazing how people assume so much.

[GoColts8818]

It's amazing how people assume so much.

not only assume but what they assume becomes stone cold unquestionable fact rather than an opinion which it is. People are more than welcome to have any opinion they want but it's still an opinion and now matter how strongly one might feel about that opinion, myself included, it's not a fact.

[ruksak]

not only assume but what they assume becomes stone cold unquestionable fact rather than an opinion which it is. People are more than welcome to have any opinion they want but it's still an opinion and now matter how strongly one might feel about that opinion, myself included, it's not a fact.

It is my opinion that water is wet.

[GoColts8818]

It is my opinion that water is wet.

and I agree with that opinion ;)

[LUVTHESHOE]

What did the Head Coach of the Cowboys do to be named HC? What did the HC of the Falcons do to "earn" the job? What about Mike Timlin? Heck what did Tony D do to earn his first head coaching job?

who is mike timlin?

[FireJimCaldwell]

What did the Head Coach of the Cowboys do to be named HC? What did the HC of the Falcons do to "earn" the job? What about Mike Timlin? Heck what did Tony D do to earn his first head coaching job?

Each of your examples spent time as coordinators of either the offense or defense.

Dungy logged 9 years as a Defensive coordiantor with two different teams before his first opportunity as a head coach.

Tomlin only had one year as a DC, but that is 1 more year as a coordinator than Caldwell had.

Mike Smith spent 5 years as DC.

The majority of head coaches in the league were a coordinator at one point or another. Caldwell was the head man at Wake Forest, where his main claim to fame was offering Chris Leak a full ride before he even threw a high school pass. Not really something to hang your hat on. He was unqualified then, and we had a team in place that didn't need to "Break in" a coach or to have one that needs training wheels.

[OLD FAN MAN]

Horriable Coaches don't take teams to Super Bowls or get them to the playoffs when they were as beat up as they were last year and don't have the players speak so highly of them like ours do when asked about Caldwell.

all these things are correctable, and he is going to make some adjustments, signed" jim making adjustments caldwell"

[Barkman76]

Whos fault was it to put #30 Caldwell in instead of the fast rising athletic Lefeged!!! Yeah we couldve won in Tampa if coach Caldwell wouldve had his football IQ working. Lefeged had a good pick in the Burg game but the scrub#30 got to play instead!!!! Jim Caldwell needs to wake up.

[chad72]

Even with Peyton at 100% we might be 2-2 at this point. With Peyton we still lose to Houston and Pitts. I would also wonder if we beat TB on the road. This team right now is not that good, and young in some very key positions. So this idea that we are where we are because of having bad coaching isn't true.

No way. The least we are with Peyton is 3-1. The Bucs' passing D will never blitz Peyton like they dared to do with Painter and he would have carved their secondary up. Pittsburgh, please. Their pass D is nowhere as good as it was. For crying out loud, they had not gotten a SINGLE sack, till that fumble recovery vs Painter THE ENTIRE SEASON. Yeah, that is how much the Pitt. D has regressed. I have their D on FF and closely monitor how they have been doing in every single game and to frankly tell you, it has not been that impressive. We would have whipped the Steelers with Peyton, and put them on their heels, especially how our D was playing that night.

Back to the topic of the thread, the coaching on D and ST has to be stepped up and the O has to sustain drives to reduce pressure on the D. That is how we are going to win games.

[Rich Cannon]

Colts went with the idea of speed and mass bodies on the ball and you can't argue with the overall success of the franchise over the past decade.

But i can argue how ineffective it is when we dont have a lead. And problems we have faced vs. the run the last 10 years.

[fthoodcoltsfan]

Even with Peyton at 100% we might be 2-2 at this point. With Peyton we still lose to Houston and Pitts. I would also wonder if we beat TB on the road. This team right now is not that good, and young in some very key positions. So this idea that we are where we are because of having bad coaching isn't true.

Sure, we might be 2-2. It's all speculation either way, this is all opinion here, and I'm just giving mine. I believe that with the way we were playing, and with how close the scores were in the last 3 games, even without the changes that the coaches should have made, in my opinion, we would have won. So I think we would be at least 3-1. Doesn't change my opinion about the failure of the coaches to make the necessary changes, especially on D this season.

[dn4192]

Sure, we might be 2-2. It's all speculation either way, this is all opinion here, and I'm just giving mine. I believe that with the way we were playing, and with how close the scores were in the last 3 games, even without the changes that the coaches should have made, in my opinion, we would have won. So I think we would be at least 3-1. Doesn't change my opinion about the failure of the coaches to make the necessary changes, especially on D this season.

If you don't have the talent available to make changes then you are pretty much stuck with what you have.

[amff]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. I've said it another thread and I'll say it again here.

With Peyton we could actually outscore most of the other teams and thus a mediocre defense was fine. Without Peyton, Caldwell now realizes he has to actually coach the team, and so far hasn't shown the ability to do so.

You state he's not allowed to be assertive with his coordinators. Is this factual info or just speculation on your part? What's the source of the info?

No its an honest opinion1 I thought that is what this was for. To state opinions

[amff]

Again if Peyton Manning is the main reason this team wins according to people then if he's not there you have to account for that when they lose. No one seems willing to do that. They just say it's bad coaching by Caldwell and I think that's because people just don't like Caldwell.

Is Caldwell great? No I have never said he is. However there is a step between being a great and being horriable. I think he's there. He's a decent coach. He clearly has his faults but he also does things well. The defense I blame on Coyer. Caldwell is an offensive coach who doesn't coach the defense. I do think Coyer needs to go at the end of the year and we'll see if Caldwell dumps him for not. If he doesn't he could be done in by the samething that did Mora in his unwillingness to fire an assistant coach. What do we see people doing here though, not blaming Coyer for his bad scheme. They are reaching to blame Caldwell.

Also in case people haven't noticed this team isn't getting blown out every week like a lot of people expect them to be. The past two weeks they played games that most people outside of Colts land didn't think they would be in. Yet both games they had a chance to win late. So while they aren't translating to wins I do think Caldwell is doing something right. Losing Peyton Manning isn't like a bad call that you just have to over come. It cripples your team. Again, most of the people who follow this for a living said this team had no chance without Peyton Manning and they are being proven right.

That's without talking about all the other players this team is missing.

Due to all those injuries on Monday Night as much as fans don't want to hear this they were handcuffed on what they can do. Again JMV reported that he talked to a Colts player this week and asked why they played that defense and they said they did it because Coyer didn't trust the young guys on the outside in man coverage. I am betting if we had blitzed and we got burned in man coverage people would be screaming why were they in man coverage with so many young guys!

Also they did make an adjustment on Monday Night that did go unnoticed and I'll admit it wasn't much. In the first half the Bucs were taking chances going down the field on downs where Freeney and Mathis were out of the game resting. In the second half one of them stayed in the game on just about every down while one would rest to help try to take that away.

As long as this team keeps playing hard and they don't go 0-16 I think Caldwell is going to be back. Will his whole coaching staff be back? That I wouldn't be so sure of.

Good insight! I have to agree that Caldwell will be back. I also agree that the other coaches are goning to be shifted around aka let go. I think that we need to take a hard look for a Defensive coach that excells with the Tampa @ and isnt affraid to put a young DB in one on man coverage. i think that is where we are going to see who is going to pan out. I think if we would put Powers one on one with most recievers in the NFL, he is gonna win that battle.

[FireJimCaldwell]

The only reasons I believe that Caldwell will return is the Manning injury coupled with Polian refusing to admit to a mistake of this magnitude and the that I bet Bill enjoys having a puppet.

[MAC]

The only reasons I believe that Caldwell will return is the Manning injury coupled with Polian refusing to admit to a mistake of this magnitude and the that I bet Bill enjoys having a puppet.

Another simplistic theory revolving around the fact that you hate Polian and don't like the expression on Caldwell's face (excuse me, around the fact that Polian supposedly has personality disorders that are more commonly found in the institutionalized rather than in future hall-of-fame executives, and that you have "third eye" insight into Caldwell's capabilities).

Dungy was brought in because he agreed on policy with Polian to an incredible degree. Together they made a terrific management TEAM (per Polian in an article from a few years back). Caldwell was obviously developed to replace Dungy because he supports a similar approach, allowing for a seamless transition.

Using the word "puppet" is malicious and implies that Caldwell is inept and that all Polian cares about is himself. Wouldn't it make more sense to assume that what he cares about is success, and that having a coach who is on the same page is the most efficient way to pursue that goal? If the team succeeds, they do so together and all prosper. If the team fails, they fail together and everyones careers will be damaged.

It remains to be seen how good a coach Caldwell is. My guess would be that he is a calming influence, and a rational and respectful leader of men, who does a fine job developing depth, motivating, and inspiring loyalty - but is perhaps too conservative and predictable an in-game coach. We could do a lot worse, and he may in fact become better with experience. He's not the problem.

I have yet to hear anyone explain to me - rationally - how bringing in a fire-breathing ego maniac of a coach, who treats his players like they are third graders while demanding the final say in player personnel decisions (and likely bringing an entirely different philosophy than what this team is built for) is going to improve anything.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Another simplistic theory revolving around the fact that you hate Polian and don't like the expression on Caldwell's face (excuse me, around the fact that Polian supposedly has personality disorders that are more commonly found in the institutionalized rather than in future hall-of-fame executives, and that you have "third eye" insight into Caldwell's capabilities).

Dungy was brought in because he agreed on policy with Polian to an incredible degree. Together they made a terrific management TEAM (per Polian in an article from a few years back). Caldwell was obviously developed to replace Dungy because he supports a similar approach, allowing for a seamless transition.

Using the word "puppet" is malicious and implies that Caldwell is inept and that all Polian cares about is himself. Wouldn't it make more sense to assume that what he cares about is success, and that having a coach who is on the same page is the most efficient way to pursue that goal? If the team succeeds, they do so together and all prosper. If the team fails, they fail together and everyones careers will be damaged.

It remains to be seen how good a coach Caldwell is. My guess would be that he is a calming influence, and a rational and respectful leader of men, who does a fine job developing depth, motivating, and inspiring loyalty - but is perhaps too conservative and predictable an in-game coach. We could do a lot worse, and he may in fact become better with experience. He's not the problem.

I have yet to hear anyone explain to me - rationally - how bringing in a fire-breathing ego maniac of a coach, who treats his players like they are third graders while demanding the final say in player personnel decisions (and likely bringing an entirely different philosophy than what this team is built for) is going to improve anything.

You are wrong on all accounts. 1) I don't hate Polian. Saying that he has an enormous ego is not hating him. It seems to have killed him to admit to some of the busts that we have drafted recently or mistakes that he has made. 2) I don’t care what Caldwell looks like on the sideline, if he was the exact same coach, but was a spit blathering yelling fool, then I would still want him fired, because it does not have one single thing about how he looks or whether or not he shows passion.

Dungy also agreed to take a hands off approach when it came to the offense, something not every coach would agree to. I understand why Caldwell was given the job, it makes sense to a point, but when the person in question has zero experience as an NFL offensive or defensive coordinator that takes a lot out of that thought process.

I use the word Puppet because it appears that Caldwell is out of sync when it comes to many decisions, heck he even had a quote around the Collins signing saying he does as little as possible. That is likely by design but is it his or Polians Caldwell hasn’t proven to me that he isn’t inept when it comes to some things because usually when someone makes a mistake they learn from it and I’m not so certain he has.

That last paragraph, wow, you could that at his eulogy.

The fact is that this team is/was set up to move forward, and not to spin tires as we break in a new coach. Every first year coach is going to make errors, mistakes, and have trials and tribulations whether he’s been a coordinator for 10 years or 1, or none, but some are better prepared to learn from those mistakes.

He’s certainly not the solution, and in my opinion he’s had a direct hand in more Colts losses than he has had in Colts wins. The team deserved better 3 years ago and they deserve better now. It's not about a fire breather vs. a calm stoic coach it's about a good coach.

[MAC]

You are wrong on all accounts. 1) I don't hate Polian. Saying that he has an enormous ego is not hating him. It seems to have killed him to admit to some of the busts that we have drafted recently or mistakes that he has made. 2) I don’t care what Caldwell looks like on the sideline, if he was the exact same coach, but was a spit blathering yelling fool, then I would still want him fired, because it does not have one single thing about how he looks or whether or not he shows passion.

Dungy also agreed to take a hands off approach when it came to the offense, something not every coach would agree to. I understand why Caldwell was given the job, it makes sense to a point, but when the person in question has zero experience as an NFL offensive or defensive coordinator that takes a lot out of that thought process.

I use the word Puppet because it appears that Caldwell is out of sync when it comes to many decisions, heck he even had a quote around the Collins signing saying he does as little as possible. That is likely by design but is it his or Polians Caldwell hasn’t proven to me that he isn’t inept when it comes to some things because usually when someone makes a mistake they learn from it and I’m not so certain he has.

That last paragraph, wow, you could that at his eulogy.

The fact is that this team is/was set up to move forward, and not to spin tires as we break in a new coach. Every first year coach is going to make errors, mistakes, and have trials and tribulations whether he’s been a coordinator for 10 years or 1, or none, but some are better prepared to learn from those mistakes.

He’s certainly not the solution, and in my opinion he’s had a direct hand in more Colts losses than he has had in Colts wins. The team deserved better 3 years ago and they deserve better now. It's not about a fire breather vs. a calm stoic coach it's about a good coach.

I appreciate hearing a more detailed response. While we obviously disagree, debating an issue with someone is a pleasure. Having them throw out little belittling barbs which seem intended to aggravate rather than convince is not.

I like Caldwell, but yes, I would feel more confident if he had a successful history as a coordinator. With his college reputation as an offensive minded coach, and with his history as Mannings QB coach common sense suggests that the continuity he provides is very much tied to extracting the most from PM. Caldwell will be 60 or more when Manning retires (if all goes well). That would be the opportune time to head in a different direction, I don't see how it could cause anything but a backwards slide short term. Coyer seems largely responsible for the defense. If the Colts aren't happy with the defenses performance, then maybe he is replaced - not Caldwell. The special teams coach is obviously a question mark as well.

[OLD FAN MAN]

It's amazing how people assume so much.

o and 4 speaks for its self

[FireJimCaldwell]

I appreciate hearing a more detailed response. While we obviously disagree, debating an issue with someone is a pleasure. Having them throw out little belittling barbs which seem intended to aggravate rather than convince is not.

I like Caldwell, but yes, I would feel more confident if he had a successful history as a coordinator. With his college reputation as an offensive minded coach, and with his history as Mannings QB coach common sense suggests that the continuity he provides is very much tied to extracting the most from PM. Caldwell will be 60 or more when Manning retires (if all goes well). That would be the opportune time to head in a different direction, I don't see how it could cause anything but a backwards slide short term. Coyer seems largely responsible for the defense. If the Colts aren't happy with the defenses performance, then maybe he is replaced - not Caldwell. The special teams coach is obviously a question mark as well.

Why waste the last years of the greatest quarterback to play the game with an inexperienced coach.

[OLD FAN MAN]

obviously they can once! anyone who thinks coach caldwell was more than just a passenger was'nt paying attention. tom moore and peyton mannig have run that team since dungy left and somewhat before he left. i can remember numerous times peyton waiving the punt team off the field and going for it, or running to the sidelines and telling coach to challenge plays. i have said before but not again if all 31 jobs opened tomorrow coach c would not be at the top of anyones list. most coaches would not

be as good without peyton, ours is just horrible!!

other teams are trying to get jim caldweld from us.,they also want the first round pickl

[manningup]

It's amusing to read how some of the defenders of Jim Caldwell describe him....."With his college reputation as an offensive minded coach".......You mean his 26-63 record at Wake Forest?

[GoColts8818]

Horrible Coaches don't but when you have been inserted to a Super Bowl caliber team, its not much Coaching to do. Plus having a robot as a QB cleans up alot of coaching errors and more. Peyton's a better coach then Caldwell.

Remind me who made the last mistake in the Super Bowl again? Was that Jim Caldwell or Peyton Manning who threw the INT?

I am NOT putting the whole Super Bowl on the shoulders of Peyton Manning because it clearly wasn't all his fault just like it wasn't all Jim Caldwell's, Hank Baskett's, Garcon's, or Dwight Freeney being hurt's fault either. Now you add all those things up and what do you get? A loss. Like most things in football there are many reasons why you lose not just one simple scap goat that you can point at.

With that said people can just easily make a case of it's Peyton Manning's fault we lost the Super Bowl just as they can as Jim Caldwell. It's just around here people like to blame Jim Caldwell so it's his mistakes they focus on while giving Peyton Manning's a pass.

Like JJ said we don't see 95% of the coaching that goes on in the NFL. The people who do say Jim Caldwell is a good coach. Maybe just maybe they know more than us on this one. With that also said it's also worth pointing out people say Jim Caldwell took over a Super Bowl caliber team and that is true but that same team went one and done the previous two years in the playoffs. So who gets the credit from taking them from one and done to the Super Bowl?

[FireJimCaldwell]

Remind me who made the last mistake in the Super Bowl again? Was that Jim Caldwell or Peyton Manning who threw the INT?

I am NOT putting the whole Super Bowl on the shoulders of Peyton Manning because it clearly wasn't all his fault just like it wasn't all Jim Caldwell's, Hank Baskett's, Garcon's, or Dwight Freeney being hurt's fault either. Now you add all those things up and what do you get? A loss. Like most things in football there are many reasons why you lose not just one simple scap goat that you can point at.

With that said people can just easily make a case of it's Peyton Manning's fault we lost the Super Bowl just as they can as Jim Caldwell. It's just around here people like to blame Jim Caldwell so it's his mistakes they focus on while giving Peyton Manning's a pass.

Like JJ said we don't see 95% of the coaching that goes on in the NFL. The people who do say Jim Caldwell is a good coach. Maybe just maybe they know more than us on this one. With that also said it's also worth pointing out people say Jim Caldwell took over a Super Bowl caliber team and that is true but that same team went one and done the previous two years in the playoffs. So who gets the credit from taking them from one and done to the Super Bowl?

That pass was on Reggie Wayne more than it was on Manning. The effort wasn't there, and if it would have been it's incomplete at the very least. Was he hurting? Who knows, but he wasn't going on that route like he normally does. The Saints DB also got lucky because we have a combo route with Reggie off the same motion that would have been a big play and likely TD for the Colts if that would have been the case.

The lengths that some go to defend Caldwell is amazing. I can't remember who said it but someone said "It wears me out to defend Caldwell". Translation it's hard thing to do. If it were easy to defend him, he wouldn't need to be defended. It would be like arguing Painter to start over Manning.

[Coltfreak188744]

Horriable Coaches don't take teams to Super Bowls or get them to the playoffs when they were as beat up as they were last year and don't have the players speak so highly of them like ours do when asked about Caldwell.

Politics 101 for ya here, the Colts are not going to have a player be interviewed that will tell the media that there is unrest in the locker room over the head coach. That causes the ESPN and FOX sports reporters to drool. We have all seen it before with other ball clubs...NBA, MLB...etc..

Certainly Peyton is not going to breathe a word about our * coach. We all know Peyton rules the Offense...Caldwell is in charge of the Time Out calling...we all know how he fails in that category.

Numerous analysts on ESPN, FOX, have all said Caldwells job is safe. It's brutaly obvious that the reason is because Peyton is out. But last I checked....Peyton does NOT play defense. Until we get rid of this "high school coach" at best, we will continue to falter. Besides Peyton, our boys in blue deserve atleast 1-2 more rings, and we as fans deserve to watch, arguably the best QB in NFL history, to leave the game with his arms weighed down from all the rings, not from frustration of another ill fated TO called.

Caldwell must go!

[IndyTrav]

Other teams with less talented rosters (not to many) manage to play well and win games in the NFL. Why cant the Colts?

[MAC]

It's amusing to read how some of the defenders of Jim Caldwell describe him....."With his college reputation as an offensive minded coach".......You mean his 26-63 record at Wake Forest?

SPEAKING of clueless - that's about as fair as my saying "it is amusing how some attackers of Caldwell lack reading comprehension skills and have no idea what the "quote" button is for."

I was clearly referring to the logical flow of his career - with his 14 years as a college offensive assistant, to his Wake Forrest teams excelling at passing, then him coming to the NFL as a QB coach, and then becoming PMs QB coach, and then becoming the head coach of a team built around the greatest QB in the history of the game. I was suggesting that THAT was where his value to the Colts emerged from, while stating that I would never-the-less feel more comfortable if he had been an NFL coordinator first.

Nowhere in any of my posts have I commented on his college teams overall success or failure. Now that you've prompted me to look a little further, I feel compelled to point out that while Wake Forrest has historically been a bottom feeder in the ACC, rarely managing a winning record, Caldwell actually led them to a winning record and a bowl victory (against Arizona State) in his second to last year. He was the second longest tenured coach in the schools history at the time that he left, and the coach who followed has been the most successful coach in every respect in the schools history. To me that sounds like he was a respected coach who did a lot to build the program.

[manningup]

Quit flattering yourself, and quit trying to defend 26-63. Peyton Manning's qb coach. I'll bet even you could do that. Well, maybe not you, but a semi-talented individual could.

[MAC]

Quit flattering yourself, and quit trying to defend 26-63. Peyton Manning's qb coach. I'll bet even you could do that. Well, maybe not you, but a semi-talented individual could.

Again, it's the big one on the lower right that starts with a "Q".

Forum protocol. When you make an attempt to belittle someone at least have the courtesy to quote them. That way the other party can follow the conversation and make an informed decision as to whether or not the specific "jibes" deserve a response.

I'm choosing not to take this silliness any lower. Not what I'm here for.

[jbaron04]

Really, what has he done to prove the opposite then? Sure, a good coach needs talent too, but I think this year shows how much was the talent and how little was the coach. Other than Peyton, we should be better than last year. We've been right in the last 3 games. Yet due to poor coaching, we failed to make the changes that needed to be made and lost all 3 of those games (I know, this is opinion, but I think it's a fair thing to say). So, while I partially agree that coaches are only as good as the players that they have, I also believe that this team has much more talent than it is showing this year, which is due in large part to the coaching.

ok but as i said caldwell has nth to do with the players we draft and sign , all he do is coach them i mean he is getting the best out of low round and undrafted players as he possibly can. understand its a reason why guys our not drafted because they have some kind of weakness, as a coach caldwell have these guys ready to play for games we our just losing games

also did you know bill b record was 33- 44 in he first few years as a head coach but went on to win 3 as a head coach just saying caldwell is not the problem its personel

[GoColts8818]

What Jim Caldwell did in college and what he does in the NFL are two totally different things but I'll get back to that in a second.

First, Jim Caldwell was also a QB coach at Penn State for a lot of years and did a very good job there before he got the job at Wake Forest. So I would say based off that and the fact he coached the QB coaches here one can make a case that he has a history of being offensive coach. Also one does not have to win to be an offensive mind. See Charlie Weis as an example of that. Everyone would call him an offensive mind yet he didn't win enough at Notre Dame to keep his job. It's just his style. If you look at Caldwell's track record it's pretty easy to see he's an offensive coach vs. a defensive coach.

Now back to the college vs. Pros job. Till the most recent Wake Forest coach was there no one won at Wake Forest. College isn't like the NFL where you are playing on a fairly even playing field in terms of getting talent and being able to win at any school you go to. There is a reason why some schools are called "dream" jobs. Wake Forest is far from being one of those. It's not like Jim Caldwell went to Ohio State and ran them into the ground or something.

Now on to why it's also not the same. In college you have the whole recruiting aspect that you don't have in the NFL. If you can't recruit it doesn't matter how good of a system you have you aren't going to win. Also in the NFL you tend to work with players who are more mature and treat things like it's their job because it is. I would say it's fair to say that Jim Caldwell is not the most dynamic person in the world and might not have been the best recruiter in the world. That's something he doesn't have to worry about at the NFL level and I would say a guy like Jim Caldwell is probably better suited for an NFL job vs. a college job.

It's not uncomon for a guy to be good at one and not good at the other, see the likes of Nick Saban, Lou Holtz, Pete Carroll, Bobby Petrino and Steve Spurrier as examples of college coaches who were not nearly as good at the NFL level as they were in college. In fact all of them except for Carroll ran back to college fairly quickly. Carroll struggled in both of his NFL jobs before going to USC did a great job there and came back for a second shot in the NFL and some think he did that largely because of cheating that was being uncovered at USC right when he left. Either way it's not like he's setting the world on fire with the Seahawks. Now those are all college coaches that have struggled at the NFL level, I don't think it's impossiable to have the reverse of that having someone who is more suited for a NFL job vs. a college job. I think that's Caldwell.

Again all the people who spend their time covering the NFL for a living and the people who really see Caldwell coach think he does a good job. Listen when you hear the players talk about him they don't just say something kinda nice about him becuase they have to they go out of their way to talk about liking him. See the Wheeler quote I've put out there several times as an example of that.

[FireJimCaldwell]

comical

[Moose Of Woe]

It's not his fault? Well he sure as heck isn't the solution.

[GoColts8818]

comical

Do you do anything but try to belittle posts you don't agree with? I've at least admitted that Caldwell isn't perfect and have stated before what I take issue with Caldwell and that I think he is decent not a great coach. Can you say that Caldwell does anything right or do you just bash on him? If it's the later I wouldn't say you are trying to be objective I would say you are just here to rip on Caldwell which is going to change the way I view your posts.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Do you do anything but try to belittle posts you don't agree with? I've at least admitted that Caldwell isn't perfect and have stated before what I take issue with Caldwell and that I think he is decent not a great coach. Can you say that Caldwell does anything right or do you just bash on him? If it's the later I wouldn't say you are trying to be objective I would say you are just here to rip on Caldwell which is going to change the way I view your posts.

I just laugh at absurd posts. I find them to be funny. I guess we disagree because I don't find him to be a decent coach. Easily in the bottom 25% in the AFC, the worst in our division and bottom 10-15% in the NFL. That is being objective. I gave you a chart, before and you ignored it. I'm just laughing at how some go out of their way to support him or attempt(key word attempt) to make him look good.

That's all.

[GoColts8818]

I just laugh at absurd posts. I find them to be funny. I guess we disagree because I don't find him to be a decent coach. Easily in the bottom 25% in the AFC, the worst in our division and bottom 10-15% in the NFL. That is being objective. I gave you a chart, before and you ignored it. I'm just laughing at how some go out of their way to support him or attempt(key word attempt) to make him look good.

That's all.

Again you take a shot by calling someone who happens to disagree with you's post absured. That's what I was getting at. I disagree with a lot of what you have to say but I normally respect your posts and would call them anything but absurd because it's clear you generally have some good football logic to back your points up. We just happen to disgree which is fine it's what a forum is for. What isn't needed is calling someone's post you don't agree with absured and comical. I am sure someone who doesn't see things your way could easily say the same about your posts if they wanted too.

As for your chart I didn't ignore your chart, I just didn't agree with it. It came across to me what you were useing to back up why you felt about something which is fine I assumed you based it on something. I just don't agree with the logic you put into your chart.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Fine, I apologize for calling it absurd or comical. I tried to go back to edit it and put no comment. Since It's so out of line to find something funny, i'll just put no comment. I guess I just find the love for Caldwell so far out of left field there is much else to say about it, so when people go out of their way to support him or again attempt to make him look good, I can only find that funny.

It would be different if we were comparing closely related events. Like who was the biggest bust in Colts history. Trev Alberts, Donald Brown, or Jerry Hughes, or d) insert name here. Then a difference of opinion wouldn't be that funny, it would more legitimate, but i find the Caldwell love over the top.

[monetprod]

Not a big Caldwell fan yet but I'm going to back him for now. Let's face it, we are playing with a list of inexperienced players right now and in 3 of the 4 games we were right there. A touch down in 2 or a field goal with Pitt and we wouldn't be talking about this. I think that says a lot about how Caldwell and his coaches have prepared these guys every week and that is just short of a miracle.

I think the front office should really think about how they keep getting rid of players. It took us forever to get a DB team that could at least cover and when we finally do they don't resign guys and go for youth. That is hurting us along with the injuries. That Tampa 2 is killing us but with two Key defensive players out and the inexperience I guess that we couldn't do anything else. If that is the case we are in trouble because every team is going to do what Tampa did. That is the answer for what Freeney and Mathis do to a QB. What's really crazy is that our Linebackers for years played too close to the line and now they are running back leaving the middle wide open. Coyer better come up with something because our defense can't stay on the field all day. If they do then that fourth qtr surge that the D Line gives us will not be there when we need it.

We will get one this week.

Let's Go Colts!