Its not Caldwell'd fault

[MCurtis32]

Colts went with the idea of speed and mass bodies on the ball and you can't argue with the overall success of the franchise over the past decade.

Once again, who has been the QB over the last decade? Without the ability to outscore your opponent, it does not work. Once the playoffs start, you play the best defensive teams. the best defense will kill the best offenses most of the time. Thats why out of all the playoff appearences, only two times were the colts not one and done. Build a quality defense!

[GoColts8818]

Once again, who has been the QB over the last decade? Without the ability to outscore your opponent, it does not work. Once the playoffs start, you play the best defensive teams. the best defense will kill the best offenses most of the time. Thats why out of all the playoff appearences, only two times were the colts not one and done. Build a quality defense!

We've had four trips since Dungy came here that wasn't one and done, 03, 04, 06, 09. 03 and 04 just didn't go to the Super Bowl. Also on our way to the Super Bowl we beat the Ravens and the Jets two of the better defenses in the NFL that year and in 06 we beat KC, the Ravens, Pats, and Bears, all of which had fairly good defenses to win a Super Bowl. People like to try to tie all our playoff loses together and frankly other than the loses to the Pats in back-to-back years and the lose to the Chargers in back-to-back years where we played the same team you can't time together they have come for different reasons. I would agree that when we lose in the playoffs normally the offense didn't preform as well as we had hoped they would though. With that said we have won playoff games in the past where the offense wasn't great namely the KC game in 06 and even in the Super Bowl vs. the Bears they weren't great. They chewed up a lot of the clock but they also had like three turnovers in that game and a missed field goal and one of the TDs came on a pick six by the defense.

[MAC]

Fine, I apologize for calling it absurd or comical. I tried to go back to edit it and put no comment. Since It's so out of line to find something funny, i'll just put no comment. I guess I just find the love for Caldwell so far out of left field there is much else to say about it, so when people go out of their way to support him or again attempt to make him look good, I can only find that funny.

It would be different if we were comparing closely related events. Like who was the biggest bust in Colts history. Trev Alberts, Donald Brown, or Jerry Hughes, or d) insert name here. Then a difference of opinion wouldn't be that funny, it would more legitimate, but i find the Caldwell love over the top.

I don't see anybody here going out of their way to support Caldwell, I just see people going out of their way to express disgust and hatred for Caldwell - at which point others such as myself feel compelled to defend the man. But none of us "defenders" are saying that he is brilliant or exceptional, we're just saying that your hatred is excessive / unwarranted / inappropriate. There is a huge difference.

You seem so confident in your opinion that you are reacting as if he said "the Moon is made of cheese", and you are doing him a favor by agreeing not to laugh in his face. That's unreasonable and confrontational. There is insufficient evidence either way, so how about keeping your mind open and your insults to yourself.

Your comments do, however, provoke a more interesting thought. Maybe we should be debating who the best and worst coaches in Colts history have been - to get people to put Caldwell in some kind of context. There's plenty of competition for the worst - of that I suspect we can all agree.

[plshlp18]

Peyton IS the coach of this team, but it was Caldwell who pulled the starters against the Jets and ruined Peyton’s perfect season. It’s the only decision he’s had to make and he blew it. That’s why he continues to be despised. I lost all of my respect for him that day and he has little chance of gaining it back. Harsh? Yes, but I’ll never forget that day.

If blaming Caldwell for this year is harsh, then I’ll blame the entire Colts management for not being able to place any talent around Peyton. One ring for the greatest QB ever? What a joke.

In 13 seasons, the Colts have never finished worse than sixth in passing offense. Last year, with all those receivers hurt, the Colts led the league in passing offense.

Under Caldwell, the Colts have ranked 32nd and 29th in rushing, 24th and 25th in defending the run, 18th and 19th in total defense and 25th and 23rd in scoring defense.

How about special teams (since that ended Peyton’s season last year. Actually the onside kick probably ended the year before it)? 18th and 29th in kick returns, 31st twice in kickoff coverage, 28th twice in punt returns, 16th and 27th in net punting. Where’s the help?

So why would anyone be surprised that we’re 0-4? Why do announcers continue to act like all of these veteran “winners” can go out and win games? “Next man up?” Please. #18 is the only one that’s ever mattered for this organization since 1998.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I don't see anybody here going out of their way to support Caldwell, I just see people going out of their way to express disgust and hatred for Caldwell - at which point others such as myself feel compelled to defend the man. But none of us "defenders" are saying that he is brilliant or exceptional, we're just saying that your hatred is excessive / unwarranted / inappropriate. There is a huge difference.

You seem so confident in your opinion that you are reacting as if he said "the Moon is made of cheese", and you are doing him a favor by agreeing not to laugh in his face. That's unreasonable and confrontational. There is insufficient evidence either way, so how about keeping your mind open and your insults to yourself.

Your comments do, however, provoke a more interesting thought. Maybe we should be debating who the best and worst coaches in Colts history have been - to get people to put Caldwell in some kind of context. There's plenty of competition for the worst - of that I suspect we can all agree.

There are a few people trying their best to complement Caldwell or attempt to show him in some state of grandeur. That is something you should know about since you are one of the few doing it. Showing disgust in him is easy. Defending him, not so much, so I commend your effort and wish you luck with that. Actually some of his defenders.. Maybe we should call them Caldwellfiles have made it seem as if he's the reason or a main reason we've won 2 division titles, 2 trips to the playoffs and were 24-8 entering this season. It's decreased lately when but it was there.

I am that confident in my opinion. So I'll share it and people can agree or disagree. That's a pretty simple concept for a message board. So I guess people should just ignore expressiveness, because they don't agree with it. Not happening. If saying something is absurd, or comical is insulting, then I feel sorry you, but I guess you would say that is insulting as well. Sad.

Oh and to be clear? I don't hate the man. I'm sure he's a nice guy and all that. I just hate his current job title, because I felt it was a mistake from day one. I gave him the benefit of doubt and he's failed to alter my original opinon.

I'd have to give your worst coach question some thought. But he's in the running...

[GoColts8818]

There are a few people trying their best to complement Caldwell or attempt to show him in some state of grandeur. That is something you should know about since you are one of the few doing it. Showing disgust in him is easy. Defending him, not so much, so I commend your effort and wish you luck with that. Actually some of his defenders.. Maybe we should call them Caldwellfiles have made it seem as if he's the reason or a main reason we've won 2 division titles, 2 trips to the playoffs and were 24-8 entering this season. It's decreased lately when but it was there.

I am that confident in my opinion. So I'll share it and people can agree or disagree. That's a pretty simple concept for a message board. So I guess people should just ignore expressiveness, because they don't agree with it. Not happening. If saying something is absurd, or comical is insulting, then I feel sorry you, but I guess you would say that is insulting as well. Sad.

Oh and to be clear? I don't hate the man. I'm sure he's a nice guy and all that. I just hate his current job title, because I felt it was a mistake from day one. I gave him the benefit of doubt and he's failed to alter my original opinon.

I'd have to give your worst coach question some thought. But he's in the running...

I think it's less that than people don't agree with thought that he is awful like Mac said and that people don't agree with the idea that he had nothing to do with the division titles like people who attack him make it seem. Like I said before I am at least willing to admit Caldwell has flaws and is a far cry from perfect. You don't seem to be willing to admit he has done anything right. Which tells me you are just flat attacking and hating on the man.

You are really going to stand by your theory that only the second man in the history of the Indianapolis Colts to be the head coach of a Super Bowl team is really in the running for worst coach in the history of the Indianapolis Colts? That's just going over the top and is showing your just pure hate for the man as a coach and not willing to judge him fairly. Like his coaching style or not he was still the coach of the team that went to the Super Bowl after the previous coach went one and done two years in a row. He gets credit for that. Is he the best coach in the history of the Indianapolis Colts? No that's Tony Dungy. I wouldn't even say Caldwell is the second best coach. I would go with Marchibroda for that. I would probably put Caldwell third a head of Jim Mora, Ron Meyer and Lindy Infante since they are the only other coaches to get us to the playoffs. That leaves Frank Kush, Hal Hunter, Rod Dowher, and Rick Venturi to round out the list. Just to let you know combined they had 17 wins and 63 losses with Frank Kush having the most wins of 11. and Dowher, Hunter and Venturi all failing to win more than five games a peace. Jim Caldwell already has 24 wins so seven more wins than those four had combined and has more wins than Infante and is closing in on the win totals of Marchibroda, Mora, and Meyer. He also has the second highest career win % only to Tony Dungy. So the idea Caldwell is awful just doesn't hold up. If he was as bad as some fans say he is there is no way a team coached by him would find a way to win 75% of his games like they have.

For the record I still only think Caldwell is an average coach. We've just had a lot of bad coaches since the team moved to Indianapolis. I don't so much try to defend him as I do point out when I think someone is going over the top with the hate for him and explain why I think they are going over to top.

Edited October 9, 2011 by GoColts8818

[FireJimCaldwell]

I think it's less that than people don't agree with thought that he is awful like Mac said and that people don't agree with the idea that he had nothing to do with the division titles like people who attack him make it seem. Like I said before I am at least willing to admit Caldwell has flaws and is a far cry from perfect. You don't seem to be willing to admit he has done anything right. Which tells me you are just flat attacking and hating on the man.

You are really going to stand by your theory that only the second man in the history of the Indianapolis Colts to be the head coach of a Super Bowl team is really in the running for worst coach in the history of the Indianapolis Colts? That's just going over the top and is showing your just pure hate for the man and not willing to judge him fairly. Like his coaching style or not he was still the coach of the team that went to the Super Bowl after the previous coach went one and done two years in a row. He gets credit for that. Is he the best coach in the history of the Indianapolis Colts? No that's Tony Dungy. I wouldn't even say Caldwell is the second best coach. I would go with Marchibroda for that. I would probably put Caldwell third a head of Jim Mora, Ron Meyer and Lindy Infante since they are the only other coaches to get us to the playoffs. That leaves Frank Kush, Hal Hunter, Rod Dowher, and Rick Venturi to round out the list. Just to let you know combined they had 17 wins and 63 losses with Frank Kush having the most wins of 11. and Dowher, Hunter and Venturi all failing to win more than five games a peace. Jim Caldwell already has 24 wins so seven more wins than those four had combined and has more wins than Infante and is closing in on the win totals of Marchibroda, Mora, and Meyer. He also has the second highest career win % only to Tony Dungy. So the idea Caldwell is awful just doesn't hold up. If he was as bad as some fans say he is there is no way a team coached by him would find a way to win 75% of his games like they have.

For the record I still only think Caldwell is an average coach. We've just had a lot of bad coaches since the team moved to Indianapolis. I don't so much try to defend him as I do point out when I think someone is going over the top with the hate for him and explain why I think they are going over to top.

There was a thread the other day that someone suggested bringing in Bobby Patrino and I congratulated the guy for finally naming a name that I'd rather have keep Caldwell than hire.

Like I said, I would have to give it some thought, but I would also do so under the premise that I feel that Peyton Manning and the other talent on this team is more responsible for 2 division titles, a trip to the Super Bowl, 75% winning % entering this year(slowly creeping to 50%) than Caldwell himself, and I would have to attempt to put those coaches into a context where they had the best quarterback to play the game, and how that might effect their winning %. I've said before I'd take Mora way before I would take Caldwell, and there is still no doubt in my mind if he wouldn't have forced his firing that we would have won with him. Teddy, Ron & Lindy would easily get put ahead of Caldwell too, and even more so if they had a QB of Manning's caliber. The others, I would have to really sit down and think about, so like I said, he's in the running. I guess that is where we differ. An outsider might say you give him too much credit, and they might say I'm not giving him enough for the 24-8, record, 2 division titles and a trip to the Super Bowl. But again, even like last year, yes we had injuries, and if we had a young team, then I think that the majority of the credit would need to go to the coaching staff for keeping things together, but since we have veteran leadership throughout the depth chart, 18,29,87,44,63,98,93,58,41,etc, etc, i give them the majority of that credit. I also give those guys the majority of the credit for the team playing hard at this point. I'm sure a Caldwellfile would want to give him more of the credit. Again, that is where we differ.

[GoColts8818]

Just wanted to add this too after thinking about this for a moment, outside of this thread that is called "It's not Caldwell' d fault. How many other threads do you see started saying things like "Caldwell is a great coach" "Caldwell for the Hall of Fame." or what not? You don't. What do you see is a lot of threads being started to attack Caldwell. Which is again why I think when you see people stick up for Caldwell it's not so much because they think he's great or that they love the guy so much as it is they just don't agree with the idea he's the root of all our problems which is what some people make it seem like. Like I've said before there is a ground between being great and being awful and I think Caldwell is there. He's average. Could the Colts do better for a head coach in general? I am sure they could. However, when they hired him that isn't what they wanted to do. They wanted to keep Dungy's system in place that had worked so well. At the time the only coaches on the market that were off the Dungy tree were Caldwell who was here, Herm Edwards, Rod Marinelli who was coming off a winless season and being fired by the Lions, and Leslie Frazier who had left here to go be the DC for the Vikings. The Colts went with the guy who was already here. Judging by the fact that Edwards is still out of football, Frazier is not doing so well as a HC, Marinelli is still more well known for being the head coach of the worst team in NFL history more than he is being the DC for the Bears they made the best choice of who was out there at the time for what they wanted.

[GoColts8818]

There was a thread the other day that someone suggested bringing in Bobby Patrino and I congratulated the guy for finally naming a name that I'd rather have keep Caldwell than hire.

Like I said, I would have to give it some thought, but I would also do so under the premise that I feel that Peyton Manning and the other talent on this team is more responsible for 2 division titles, a trip to the Super Bowl, 75% winning % entering this year(slowly creeping to 50%) than Caldwell himself, and I would have to attempt to put those coaches into a context where they had the best quarterback to play the game, and how that might effect their winning %. I've said before I'd take Mora way before I would take Caldwell, and there is still no doubt in my mind if he wouldn't have forced his firing that we would have won with him. Teddy, Ron & Lindy would easily get put ahead of Caldwell too, and even more so if they had a QB of Manning's caliber. The others, I would have to really sit down and think about, so like I said, he's in the running. I guess that is where we differ. An outsider might say you give him too much credit, and they might say I'm not giving him enough for the 24-8, record, 2 division titles and a trip to the Super Bowl. But again, even like last year, yes we had injuries, and if we had a young team, then I think that the majority of the credit would need to go to the coaching staff for keeping things together, but since we have veteran leadership throughout the depth chart, 18,29,87,44,63,98,93,58,41,etc, etc, i give them the majority of that credit. I also give those guys the majority of the credit for the team playing hard at this point. I'm sure a Caldwellfile would want to give him more of the credit. Again, that is where we differ.

So you would take the guy who has never won a playoff game in his life (including two with Manning here) over a guy who has been to a Super Bowl? That's where the logic falls apart. I gave Marchibroda credit because he honeslty built the team from nothing and took a team with far less talent with in a play of the Super Bowl. Mora had close to the same talent level Caldwell is working with, at least on offense, and couldn't even win a playoff game.

As for the other coaches on that list Infante is what people say Caldwell is. He took over a playoff team had a carry over season and then things fell apart quickly to the point he was fired after his second season when the team was 3-13. That's a coach that took over a playoff team and ran them into the ground. Caldwell has held it together threw an injury riddled season got them back to the playoffs and sorry but not having Peyton Manning, the guy the team is built around makes this year a wash and hard to judge.

Ron Meyer had a very good year during the strike year in which he got us to he playoffs for the first time and had us knocking on the door again in 1989 just for us to miss out. WIth that said he also didn't win a playoff game and the strike year part of the reason the Colts made playoffs was the fact they got really good scab players who helped put themselves in poistion for that and then frankly sold the future of the franchise for Dickerson to get them into the playoffs. Still though he did a good job and other than Marchiborda he is clearly the best coach the Colts have had of the none Manning coaches.

The other coaches were a joke. Like a real joke. When the best one had 11 wins and you had two of them combine for a total of 1 win and the other had 5 what else can you call them? So at worst if you are looking at this even remotely fairly you can say Caldwell is the fifth best coach because he's ahead of Infante if for no other reason he held the playoff team together longer than Infante did and he still got the team to a Super Bowl and that has to count for something.

Edited October 9, 2011 by GoColts8818

[FireJimCaldwell]

Just wanted to add this too after thinking about this for a moment, outside of this thread that is called "It's not Caldwell' d fault. How many other threads do you see started saying things like "Caldwell is a great coach" "Caldwell for the Hall of Fame." or what not? You don't. What do you see is a lot of threads being started to attack Caldwell. Which is again why I think when you see people stick up for Caldwell it's not so much because they think he's great or that they love the guy so much as it is they just don't agree with the idea he's the root of all our problems which is what some people make it seem like. Like I've said before there is a ground between being great and being awful and I think Caldwell is there. He's average. Could the Colts do better for a head coach in general? I am sure they could. However, when they hired him that isn't what they wanted to do. They wanted to keep Dungy's system in place that had worked so well. At the time the only coaches on the market that were off the Dungy tree were Caldwell who was here, Herm Edwards, Rod Marinelli who was coming off a winless season and being fired by the Lions, and Leslie Frazier who had left here to go be the DC for the Vikings. The Colts went with the guy who was already here. Judging by the fact that Edwards is still out of football, Frazier is not doing so well as a HC, Marinelli is still more well known for being the head coach of the worst team in NFL history more than he is being the DC for the Bears they made the best choice of who was out there at the time for what they wanted.

There are reasons for that. Nobody should be saying Caldwell is a great coach or Caldwell for the hall of fame. These threads that are started by others, I have to add, are far more accurate than Caldwell for coach of the year in the AFC South or any other hypothetical thread similar to those you mentioned.

Of course they could do better in general.

Comparing Caldwell to Edwards, Marienelli, Frazier, etc, is fine and dandy except for one missing key ingredient. PEYTON WILLIAMS MANNING, put him on Herm’s NYJ, or KC teams, and he’s still there unless he chooses to retire. You can say the same thing about Rod, Leslie and pretty much anyone. I’d take any of those guys over Caldwell too. Compare what Marnelli had to deal with and what we have here. Switch places. Is Jim going to keep that job? Of course not and that is part of the point that much if not every success we have experienced in the past 2 years falls on Manning & the players more so than Jim Caldwell’s coaching ability.

So you would take the guy who has never won a playoff game in his life (including two with Manning here) over a guy who has been to a Super Bowl? That's where the logic falls apart. I gave Marchibroda credit because he honeslty built the team from nothing and took a team with far less talent with in a play of the Super Bowl. Mora had close to the same talent level Caldwell is working with, at least on offense, and couldn't even win a playoff game.

As for the other coaches on that list Infante is what people say Caldwell is. He took over a playoff team had a carry over season and then things fell apart quickly to the point he was fired after his second season when the team was 3-13. That's a coach that took over a playoff team and ran them into the ground. Caldwell has held it together threw an injury riddled season got them back to the playoffs and sorry but not having Peyton Manning, the guy the team is built around makes this year a wash and hard to judge.

Ron Meyer had a very good year during the strike year in which he got us to he playoffs for the first time and had us knocking on the door again in 1989 just for us to miss out. WIth that said he also didn't win a playoff game and the strike year part of the reason the Colts made playoffs was the fact they got really good scab players who helped put themselves in poistion for that and then frankly sold the future of the franchise for Dickerson to get them into the playoffs. Still though he did a good job and other than Marchiborda he is clearly the best coach the Colts have had of the none Manning coaches.

The other coaches were a joke. Like a real joke. When the best one had 11 wins and you had two of them combine for a total of 1 win and the other had 5 what else can you call them? So at worst if you are looking at this even remotely fairly you can say Caldwell is the fifth best coach because he's ahead of Infante if for no other reason he held the playoff team together longer than Infante did and he still got the team to a Super Bowl and that has to count for something.

Yes I would take Mora, and he never had Manning in his prime. I’ve said it before but I guess it merits repeating there is no doubt in my mind that if Dungy was never hired that we would have still had one of the best teams, we would have still won 10+ games a year, we would have had at least 1 or more Super Bowls with Mora. That’s where the logic is actually supported because it would be Manning leading the Colts to those same levels. Now Jim needed to fire his DC, he refused, and Dungy became available and the rest is history. Now if Tampa Doesn’t fire Tony, then Polian either fires the Fagio or however it is spelled it’s 3am and I don’t care if anyone breaks out a red pen, but if Mora remains in place, then I still think we have one of the top teir teams over the past decade, or if they would have brought in some of the other names rumored at the time.

I’ve voiced my main issues with the Caldwell hire and for the most part the former coaches fit that criteria more than Caldwell does, and I’m not going to give that list any more thought for the moment, but I will agree that this year is hard to judge due to the Manning absence, and I think we are 4-0 or 3-1 if Manning is playing and that isn’t a vote of confidence for Caldwell, just as I’m not putting the blame on him for the 0-4 record. I’m not certain Belichk would have a winning record if he swapped places for the start of this season, Now if he were in place for the past 4-5 years then maybe, but it would be dependent on having the Patriots offensive scheme installed which is far more QB friendly than the one we run. Manning makes this one click where a lot of QB”s would have success in the Patriots system. Cowher, Gruden, Rex Ryan,etc, etc, etc, , all the other names tossed around would be far worse off without Manning than they would be with Manning, and that can be said about Chuck Noll, Tom Landry, Bill Walsh, Lombardi or any other historical coach you want to throw out there. But on the other hand, when you add Manning back into the equation a number of coaches and all of those mentioned in this last paragraph would be far better than Caldwell.

[GoColts8818]

There are reasons for that. Nobody should be saying Caldwell is a great coach or Caldwell for the hall of fame. These threads that are started by others, I have to add, are far more accurate than Caldwell for coach of the year in the AFC South or any other hypothetical thread similar to those you mentioned.

That was my point, it's not that people think those things. People don't. So it's not people being out to defend Caldwell and whatever Caldwell word you invented to call those people like they love the guy as much as it is people don't agree with is the idea he's the only problem with the team like some fans make him out to be. Not everyone thinks like you do that Jim Caldwell is an awful coach. Several people seem to feel he's at least decent as has been proven over and over again by people's responses to things on the many attack Caldwell threads on the forum. If you read those threas some of the things said about Caldwell set the bar so low that if you say anything of course you are going to come off as defending him. My point is you don't see people going out of their way to start threads to defend Caldwell as much as you as you do seeing people going out of their way too attack him and trying to turn him into a scapegoat. It doesn't help either than any time someone dares to say something other than man Caldwell stinks and join in on the Caldwell bashing that person is written off as being Jim Caldwell posting, has their post belittled by having it called absured and comical because someone just doesn't agree with them or they are called a homer. Again, I don't think it's so much people being out to defend Caldwell like you said as it is people not agreeing with the idea that he's the only or even largest problem with this team. The largest problem with this team is that it's missing the guy the whole team has been built around Peyton Manning. Give Jim Caldwell Peyton Manning and we aren't having this debate because we are probably at worst 3-1 if not 4-0 because I really think the start of the Texans game would have been different. I think Manning takes that INT and goes down the field and scores a TD on that first drive and doesn't fumble two snaps inside his own 20.

I don't disagree with the idea Peyton Manning is the most important part of this team. What I do disagree with is the idea that any coach can have just him and win. If that was the case Jim Mora would have never been fired in the first place (prime or not Peyton Manning was still one of the best QBs in the NFL at the time Mora had him and according to you just having Peyton Manning alone should be enough to win period). It takes the right combnation of coach and player to win. Clearly something Caldwell is doing is working because they've won a lot with him here and the players love him. Again listen to them talk about the man when they are asked about him. If you don't like him fine, no one says you have too. It's just not the end of the world and it doesn't make people foolish to feel that he's not a joke of a coach. If you want to see a joke of a coach look up any of those early coaches we had. That's a joke and that's a coach that even if he has a Peyton Manning is going to find a way to lose. Those of us that lived threw some of those coaches trust me you quickly see that Caldwell is above their league if for no other reason than the people who cover this for a living and the players that play for him respect him and those people don't tend to respect clowns.

Also at this point we are just going in circles. I am not going to change your mind and you aren't going to change mind so I am going to say let's just agree to disagree and move on? If you want to make another post go for it.

Edited October 9, 2011 by GoColts8818

[MAC]

There are a few people trying their best to complement Caldwell or attempt to show him in some state of grandeur. That is something you should know about since you are one of the few doing it.

I beg to differ. I just explained my intent in some detail, so clearly you are mistaken. I agree completely with GoColts1888's comments. Frankly I would be ignoring Caldwell if not for the over-the-top hate filled threads and comments that fill this site.

So I guess people should just ignore expressiveness, because they don't agree with it. Not happening. If saying something is absurd, or comical is insulting, then I feel sorry you, but I guess you would say that is insulting as well. Sad.

When somebody states a heartfelt opinion, and you respond by ridiculing them or laughing at them, yes that's insulting. And by the way insulting people is against forum policy. Don't feel sorry for me because I prefer civilized conversation - I'm proud of it.

GoColts1888 is right, and I'm going to try very hard to resist the urge to engage you on this topic again. You would think that your screen name would have alerted me to the comic pointlessness of starting in the first place.

[FireJimCaldwell]

That was my point, it's not that people think those things. People don't. So it's not people being out to defend Caldwell and whatever Caldwell word you invented to call those people like they love the guy as much as it is people don't agree with is the idea he's the only problem with the team like some fans make him out to be. Not everyone thinks like you do that Jim Caldwell is an awful coach. Several people seem to feel he's at least decent as has been proven over and over again by people's responses to things on the many attack Caldwell threads on the forum. If you read those threas some of the things said about Caldwell set the bar so low that if you say anything of course you are going to come off as defending him. My point is you don't see people going out of their way to start threads to defend Caldwell as much as you as you do seeing people going out of their way too attack him and trying to turn him into a scapegoat. It doesn't help either than any time someone dares to say something other than man Caldwell stinks and join in on the Caldwell bashing that person is written off as being Jim Caldwell posting, has their post belittled by having it called absured and comical because someone just doesn't agree with them or they are called a homer. Again, I don't think it's so much people being out to defend Caldwell like you said as it is people not agreeing with the idea that he's the only or even largest problem with this team. The largest problem with this team is that it's missing the guy the whole team has been built around Peyton Manning. Give Jim Caldwell Peyton Manning and we aren't having this debate because we are probably at worst 3-1 if not 4-0 because I really think the start of the Texans game would have been different. I think Manning takes that INT and goes down the field and scores a TD on that first drive and doesn't fumble two snaps inside his own 20.

I don't disagree with the idea Peyton Manning is the most important part of this team. What I do disagree with is the idea that any coach can have just him and win. If that was the case Jim Mora would have never been fired in the first place (prime or not Peyton Manning was still one of the best QBs in the NFL at the time Mora had him and according to you just having Peyton Manning alone should be enough to win period). It takes the right combnation of coach and player to win. Clearly something Caldwell is doing is working because they've won a lot with him here and the players love him. Again listen to them talk about the man when they are asked about him. If you don't like him fine, no one says you have too. It's just not the end of the world and it doesn't make people foolish to feel that he's not a joke of a coach. If you want to see a joke of a coach look up any of those early coaches we had. That's a joke and that's a coach that even if he has a Peyton Manning is going to find a way to lose. Those of us that lived threw some of those coaches trust me you quickly see that Caldwell is above their league if for no other reason than the people who cover this for a living and the players that play for him respect him and those people don't tend to respect clowns.

Also at this point we are just going in circles. I am not going to change your mind and you aren't going to change mind so I am going to say let's just agree to disagree and move on? If you want to make another post go for it.

I'll try to let this go because no nothing at this point will change my mind but with a long post and then have the “agree to disagree” comment, it's hard to just say “yes sure let's do that”. The difference is you feel Caldwell is a main part of the equation and I don't. I feel that you could replace him with a number of coaches and we would have had the results with and without Manning at the minimum, and I feel that a number of other coaches would have given us more than what we have had and a better chances moving forward that we currently do have.

Mora coaching the 2002, I see a 10+ win season. I would say the same about 03 on. I also see a better record in 01, if Edge doesn’t go down and a likely trip to the playoffs and that is with a bad defense. Manning has carried a bad defense to the playoffs numerous times then when he faces better teams, it’s harder for him to overcome that and the blame falls on him. Right or wrong the Colts go as Manning goes, and he gets the majority of the credit and he gets the majority of the blame even when he has a 90+qbr in the playoffs and we lose.

I’ll say this about Caldwell vs. those old Colts coaches, for the most part I would say hes better than most because the average head coach today should be more advanced than an average head coach from 20 to 30 years ago just based on much more detailed and complex the game is, but if they were coaching today, then that could make it a different story, and again if they had Peyton Manning that would improve their records. I could also see him being equally as bad if he would have been coaching in 84-92 era. He’s not a difference make type of coach.

I beg to differ. I just explained my intent in some detail, so clearly you are mistaken. I agree completely with GoColts1888's comments. Frankly I would be ignoring Caldwell if not for the over-the-top hate filled threads and comments that fill this site.

When somebody states a heartfelt opinion, and you respond by ridiculing them or laughing at them, yes that's insulting. And by the way insulting people is against forum policy. Don't feel sorry for me because I prefer civilized conversation - I'm proud of it.

GoColts1888 is right, and I'm going to try very hard to resist the urge to engage you on this topic again. You would think that your screen name would have alerted me to the comic pointlessness of starting in the first place.

No, I'm not mistaken. My interpretations of your posts were accurate, therefore I must respond with a no comment since anything else would be perceived as an insult. Which makes me feel sorry for you and again I do apologize that you found the comments insulting that wasn't their intent. If an insulting comment was my goal, it would look a quite bit different and I don't think you could be mistaken about those.

[MAC]

No, I'm not mistaken. My interpretations of your posts were accurate, therefore I must respond with a no comment since anything else would be perceived as an insult. Which makes me feel sorry for you and again I do apologize that you found the comments insulting that wasn't their intent. If an insulting comment was my goal, it would look a quite bit different and I don't think you could be mistaken about those.

So in other words, you are confident that you have a better understanding of the thoughts in my head than I do.

I'm guessing that you don't lose many arguments.

That's just my opinion, but I probably didn't have to write it anyway since, well, you know.

But just in case I'll randomly throw in the phrase "I apologize if you've found any of my comments insulting, that wasn't their intent". (emoticons don't hurt either).

I'm happy to say that we finally agree on something FireJimmy. YES, occasionally other users comments make us laugh.

How about we leave it on that high note.

[FireJimCaldwell]

So in other words, you are confident that you have a better understanding of the thoughts in my head than I do.

I'm guessing that you don't lose many arguments.

That's just my opinion, but I probably didn't have to write it anyway since, well, you know.

But just in case I'll randomly throw in the phrase "I apologize if you've found any of my comments insulting, that wasn't their intent". (emoticons don't hurt either).

I'm happy to say that we finally agree on something FireJimmy. YES, occasionally other users comments make us laugh.

How about we leave it on that high note.

Now how you came to that conclusion I'll never know. What i said and I repeat was"No, I'm not mistaken. My interpretations of your posts were accurate," which was in response to your "I beg to differ. I just explained my intent in some detail, so clearly you are mistaken." Which has nothing to do with whatever thoughts you have going on in your head. But if you found enjoyment in all that, then congrats.

[AlanNC]

I think you should change the thread to say it is his fault. He is not a head coach period. It is time for a change after this year.

[buddingvenus]

Caldwell is way too soft and it's killing the team. He doesn't have to thrash around and act like a nut but he could atleast show a little more passion. He's a statue out there.

[Orlando Fan]

Caldwell had the team ready for the opening of the game, but his staff couldn't make the defensive adjustments as the game went on to maintain the lead. The Chiefs did and did it well.

[unvrsty07]

I hope Caldwell gets fired. Its absolutely his fault horrible coaching! You can not lose at home after a 17 point lead to a team that had only one win. Disgusting.

[amff]

Today its not Caldwell's fault! The recievers didn' catch the ball well in the Second half. Our best runner went out and we had to rely on Brown some ( which is always abad idea). Our corners got burnt and looked lost. But i think if i was anyonebut the Head Coach, i would be getting worried about my job!

[amff]

I think you should change the thread to say it is his fault. He is not a head coach period. It is time for a change after this year.

I think I won't.

[hawkeyes]

AGAIN ... a coach should not be judged by their performance when they have a team full of studs - they should be judged when they dont. Considering that concept, clearly this coaching staff can NOT coach!

[amff]

AGAIN ... a coach should not be judged by their performance when they have a team full of studs - they should be judged when they dont. Considering that concept, clearly this coaching staff can NOT coach!

QUickly we r becoming that team. I think that Caldweel needs to revert back to what worked. Defensively speaking of course. Today's loss is not by his hand, but by the hands that couldn't hold on. And the hands that forget to wrap up when tackling

[FireJimCaldwell]

Another embarrassing performance by Caldwell, Coyer and Chritensen(2nd half).

[BillCowher]

No, it's not Caldwell's fault! Of course not. I would love to have you as a boss! I would never show up for work and you would be apoligizing for me! I would have great excuses, like my car is broken down, my dog ate my schedule, I'm sick, etc and you would just let me keep getting paid and patting me on the back. Let me know if I can come work for you......

[Lodogg2221]

Giant facepalm....

I dont know whats happening, but you cant tell me for one second that a team can do so well in one half and come out in the second stinking it up on both sides and it NOT be the fault of coaching.

No changes...no adjustments, nothing.

Or rather, none by the Colts. Chiefs made some good ones....

[Moose Of Woe]

0-5

More to come.

[austriancolt]

under dungy the colts started slow, did some adjustments and won the games. under caldwell you don't see ANY adjustments in the game.

[BillCowher]

What you see on the sidelines (an emotionless, stiff, clueless, cardboard cutout coach) is what we have. Everyone needs to stop thinking he is something he is not. Manning told us as much last year with his body language when Caldwell was calling stupid timeouts. Why do some people think he is some type of quiet genius? I've never bought it and never will and it is showing now that his only reason for existing as an NFL head coach is sitting on the bench.

[ruksak]

............

So...what are you doing next Sunday, Bill?

[BillCowher]

So...what are you doing next Sunday, Bill?

Waiting on a call from Polian!

[FanFromtheWasteland]

I posted this in an other thread but am going to post it here also

Great out of the gate ……..but not much for stamina.

And that my friends points to nothing more than coaching………. plain and simple. If you can prove that you have the ability to physically man handle your opponent in the first half, then absolutely fall apart in the second, that points to nothing more than the coaching staff’s inability to adjust to the other team’s adjustments. The defense should be well rested no? Am I wrong in thinking that they should at least be able to hold their own? And once again our so called coach stands on the sidelines with the look of someone that has no clue as to what is going on. It is painfully obvious that Peyton has been the glue to this team as Reggie Miller was to the Pacers. As much as I have been against all this show boating that goes on in the NFL today, I think that the Colts may have gone too much to the other extreme. They don’t seem to show any passion anymore. They are just this broken machine missing a main cog. And that is where coaching needs to step up, and unfortunately it hasn’t happened. Some fans need to take off their blue glasses and face reality. Until the rectal cranial inversion is treated as far as coaching is concerned it is a dismal out look for the Colts.

The person that I feel for is Painter. He played

more than well enough to win that game today, and was let down. As far as I am concerned he at least deserves the starting job regardless of Collins’ health status.

[Gonzo]

I don't think he's terrible coach, I just think he's an adequate coach on a mediocre team. An upshot to this losing season is it might give us the opportunity to upgrade.

[Moose Of Woe]

I don't think he's terrible coach, I just think he's an adequate coach on a mediocre team. An upshot to this losing season is it might give us the opportunity to upgrade.

He's a terrible coach on a terrible team that has a few playmakers.

[Gonzo]

He's a terrible coach on a terrible team that has a few playmakers.

Lets not split hairs, lets just get a new coach. :whiteflag:

[BillCowher]

If the Colts' fired Caldwell who would hire him as their head coach?

[manningstheman]

This is the saddest day in my long history of a Colts fan. We might have one of the worst coaches in the league, and people are so blinded by homerism that they dont see it. Look, I read someones excuse for Caldwell that a bad coach doesnt lead a team to the Superbowl. Well, that was his first season. He still had coach Moore, who masterminded this offense, and coach Mudd, who built a great o-line for Petyon. So please stop acting like Caldwells coaching expertice was the reason we went to the Superbowl again. Oh by the way, we lost the game and we were up by 10. The truth that everyone needs to wake up to is that Peyton is old. He might come back and win again, But we just dont know. What we know for certain is that Caldwell is a joke, this defense cant win us games, and our offense will only be as good as you saw it today. That is the future of the Colts if the front office doesnt do something. And yes a bad head coach has taken a team to the superbowl.His name is John Fox and I still cant believe this man has a head coaching position. Denver sucks even worse now. he has an overall record of 78-74. Thats not horrible but it is bad.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Colts are 12-15 since Caldwell, Polian and Irsay decided to lay down and spit into the eye of perfection back in 2009.

[amff]

No, it's not Caldwell's fault! Of course not. I would love to have you as a boss! I would never show up for work and you would be apoligizing for me! I would have great excuses, like my car is broken down, my dog ate my schedule, I'm sick, etc and you would just let me keep getting paid and patting me on the back. Let me know if I can come work for you......

No thanks i have enough smart mouth people around me. Not quite sure i handle another. Maybe if we expand i will save u a spot.

[amff]

No, it's not Caldwell's fault! Of course not. I would love to have you as a boss! I would never show up for work and you would be apoligizing for me! I would have great excuses, like my car is broken down, my dog ate my schedule, I'm sick, etc and you would just let me keep getting paid and patting me on the back. Let me know if I can come work for you......

i know this forum is for opinions, don't get me wrong. I just happen to disagree with yours apparently. I'm not calling him a great coach, I'm not calling him bad. Even as head coach, you still have to answer to the the GM and CEO. I think there is alot that goes on behind closed doors that sways his decision. I think he needs to forget it and work on his DC lack of ability. As far as opinions go i have mine and u have yours. I just state mine with out being rude. I understand somepeople can't refrain from that.