Joe Lefeged Arrested...

[southwest1]

These two guys must be cut, otherwise the entire roster will have free reign to offend in a similar fashion without fear of consequence, and that is no way to run a business. To say it would be better to keep these guys is just plain wrong.

BHC, I have profound respect for your intellect, wit, & humor & I understand your point about setting a slippery slope & bad precedent for the rest of the roster, but I subscribe to Superman's point of view on the difference between the ramifications of what Brazill did as opposed to what Lefeged did. I do admire your resolve & conviction though in wanting to eliminate any disruptive influences on the team though. I don't need everyone on the Colts roster to be a saint...Just enough veterans on the squad to crack the discipline whip when necessary that's all. JMO. 

 

But there is a double standard. If Andrew Luck got arrested for something non-violent (even if it's really stupid, like Lefeged), he's not getting cut. He's just not. It would be an inconsistent standard, but I think there's something to be said for the leaders of an organization reserving the right to address individual situations based on the circumstances surrounding each situation. I don't think it's necessary to implement a rigid standard that undermines your ability to make decisions as you see fit.

 

I also think there's a big difference between Brazill and Lefeged. As far as we know, Brazill didn't brazenly violate the law. I don't like that he got busted (twice) for taking an illegal substance, but it's not as bad as Lefeged. 

 

But really, I don't think the majority of NFL players are motivated by fear of being released. I don't think they decide not to do something wrong because "the last guy who did something wrong got cut." I think they want to support their teammates and live up to the expectations of their coaches, and so they work hard and stay out of trouble. That's the vast majority of them. Between all the guys who have been suspended for drug violations or had a run-in with the law over the past year, it's something like 2% of the league. That means that the vast majority of NFL players are abiding by the rules. I don't think a zero tolerance policy is necessary.

Substance abuse can be treated. However, an arrogant denial or dismissal of gun laws is quite another. Like BrentMc11 said earlier in this topic "You can't fix stupidity." Chemical dependency can be cured. Arrogance mixed with alcohol & guns, on the other hand, not so much. Keep Brazill release Lefeged IMO. 

[southwest1]

"All told, Lefeged was charged with carrying a firearm without a license, having an unregistered firearm in the district, possessing unregistered ammunition, possessing a firearm in a motor vehicle and possession of an open container of alcohol." 

 

It's bad enough that Lefeged had an unregistered gun, but who in the world also travels with unregistered bullets too?   Jesus, Tank Johnson even talked at the NFL rookie Symposium about the hot water he got into having a gun in his luggage as a player at the airport. Both NFL Network & ESPN mentioned that as being one of the central themes of Johnson's speech & both networks highlighted that very point. Most NFL players often do try to stay informed by watching both networks when they can. 

[southwest1]

Gavin said this a few days ago...Something to the effect that players can have all the best advice in the world from experts & former football players themselves, but they often believe they are too smart to get caught by law enforcement for drugs, guns, gambling, or prostitution collars or that it will be someone else & never them in a million years.

 

Gavin was 100% right. Players must be ready to listen closely to the cautionary tales of misfortune but sadly, once you get busted, it might be too late. No one ever says to themselves "I wanna be a drug addict, illegal gun dealer, or a convicted & broke felon when I grow up do they? But everything is a statistic until it happens to you directly & lands right on your front door.

 

Well said Gavin! 

[southwest1]

I guess it makes me wonder what makes supremely gifted athletes throw their futures collectively away? At least in terms of the salaries they could be making down the road if they keep their noses clean...Very few athletes get a true shot at redemption like Michael Vick did.

 

Okay, part of it is youth & an invincibility complex. Still another part might be poor men from broken homes who get some serious money & they feel as though they are living on borrowed time anyway so live fast, loose, & dangerous. A final segment of athletes might tie their worth to being highly paid to commit violent tackles on a field so therefore all respect in this world is obtained through fear, intimidation, & unleashing physical pain on others...Systematically being praised & financially rewarded for bestowing that punishment consistently. Balancing 2 polar opposites: Physical intimidator vs perfect community role model is easier said than done in some cases especially on defense say a LB or DE. I'm not condoning violence at all. Merely pointing out that athletes from troubled backgrounds have often rarely been taught that there is an off switch or a time not to be violent. 

 

Perhaps, I am projecting & speculating more than I should be here. I will admit that. I just wanna know what makes an NFL player jeopardize his future? Yes I know it's not a shoe sale. 1 size does not fit or apply to all athletes. 

[braveheartcolt]

BHC, I have profound respect for your intellect, wit, & humor & I understand your point about setting a slippery slope & bad precedent for the rest of the roster, but I subscribe to Superman's point of view on the difference between the ramifications of what Brazill did as opposed to what Lefeged did. I do admire your resolve & conviction though in wanting to eliminate any disruptive influences on the team though. I don't need everyone on the Colts roster to be a saint...Just enough veterans on the squad to crack the discipline whip when necessary that's all. JMO. 

 

Substance abuse can be treated. However, an arrogant denial or dismissal of gun laws is quite another. Like BrentMc11 said earlier in this topic "You can't fix stupidity." Chemical dependency can be cured. Arrogance mixed with alcohol & guns, on the other hand, not so much. Keep Brazill release Lefeged IMO. 

You do make me blush Mr Southwest! I do not deserve such nice accolades.....but I'll take anything that is going!

 

I was not specifically comparing the two misdemeanours, just saying that if we condone misbehaviour (by not cutting) then we are sending out a message to the players (WELL, TO THOSE BELOW THE SUPERSTAR STATUS) that if you get into the sort or trouble Mr Pagano warned you all not to get into, you will still have a future at this ball club. To me, that is setting a bad precedent, and is the beginning of the slippery slope to "Cincinnati Bengalism".....

[jvan1973]

"All told, Lefeged was charged with carrying a firearm without a license, having an unregistered firearm in the district, possessing unregistered ammunition, possessing a firearm in a motor vehicle and possession of an open container of alcohol."

It's bad enough that Lefeged had an unregistered gun, but who in the world also travels with unregistered bullets too? Jesus, Tank Johnson even talked at the NFL rookie Symposium about the hot water he got into having a gun in his luggage as a player at the airport. Both NFL Network & ESPN mentioned that as being one of the central themes of Johnson's speech & both networks highlighted that very point. Most NFL players often do try to stay informed by watching both networks when they can.

please explain how one would go about registering ammo? Our nations capital has some stupid laws..

[bayone]

please explain how one would go about registering ammo? Our nations capital has some stupid laws..

 

never new was such a thing as registering ammo

[jvan1973]

never new was such a thing as registering ammo

me either. i think dc is the only place where this ridiculous law exists

[shakedownstreet]

me either. i think dc is the only place where this ridiculous law exists

 

i wonder if each round has a separate registration no surprise if you've ever been to DC there are endless nondescript buildings that scream out bureaucracy of this & bureaucracy of that. one of them is bound to be the bureaucracy of bullets 

[bayone]

so many states, so many Municipalities, besides Federal, , each with laws and ordinances that may be variable, one good thing about being disabled, I cant go anywhere so all i need to know is within close range

 

Been before 911 or just after last time I flew , was to NY , Mom still lived there

 

I parked at a meter , after driving to a place I loved to walk whenever visiting MOM when she still lived there and not here,    Coney Island boardwalk , with my handicap sticker in front of a policeman, I was assured i wouldn't get a ticket if didnt pay meter, was told point blank I am just not allowed to double park, , park by a fire hydrant , , park in a way can hurt someone , etc park in Drs only , even though am one but wasnt still licensed in NY , so maybe could of but why chance it if meters were free

 

went for a walk and of course when back to car had a ticket for not paying meter

 

went to the local police precinct and explained story, Was told reason I got ticket was that there are so many foreigners as rookies that dont know the laws so one must of thought it was illegal, was told if telling the truth yes i didnt have to pay ,  However, I would have to take ticket to Motor Vehicle Buildiing in Manhattan,, most likely spend half a day there, & hope they believed me when I said it was visible in proper place for a policeman to see

 

I just paid the ticket, If u ever had to go to the that place u would understand what a waste of time , esp while visiting

[ruksak]

never new was such a thing as registering ammo

DC is kinda whacked. 

 

Weapons and ammo being registered is a liability for the owner imo. The authors of the Constitution were quite clear on this matter. 

[the cardinal]

please explain how one would go about registering ammo? Our nations capital has some stupid laws..

 

It's actually called unlawful possession of ammunition not unregistered. In Joe's case all it means is: His ammunition had to match the gauge and caliber of a registered firearm. That's it. So unless you're (1) a licensed gun dealer or (2) an (on the job) law enforcement officer, all ammunition must match a registered gun.

[Gavin]

please explain how one would go about registering ammo? Our nations capital has some stupid laws..

It makes sense if you have to register a gun then you should have to register the ammo that comes with it, Picky but it makes sense

[bayone]

It's actually called unlawful possession of ammunition not unregistered. In Joe's case all it means is: His ammunition had to match the gauge and caliber of a registered firearm. That's it.

 

So unless you're (1) a licensed gun dealer or (2) an (on the job) law enforcement officer, all ammunition must match a registered gun.  D.C. Code § 7-2506.01

 

 

can u carry ammo & no registered weapon, just the ammo, am curious thats all, even if have u matching registered at home, or do u need the correct weapon with u too

[the cardinal]

can u carry ammo & no registered weapon, just the ammo, am curious thats all, even if have u matching registered at home, or do u need the correct weapon with u too

 

Not sure. Everything know is from reading the DC code. (I took out the cite because IDT anyone would voluntarily want to read it.) Based on what I read, if you can produce a valid registration certificate for the gun and the gauge and caliber match the ammunition, you should be fine.  So in that case, if the registered gun was at home I would take the certificate of registration that matches the ammo WITH me. It seems to be directed at unlicensed ammo suppliers and hoarders. And yeah, a way to double dip on unregistered firearm charges.  This way if you get nabbed for an unregistered firearm AND it's loaded or there's bullets on hand. Boom. They can tack on an additional charge and/or up to $1000 fine or a 1 year sentence. 

[BrentMc11]

me either. i think dc is the only place where this ridiculous law exists

If a soldier got arrested for unregistered ammo (a post earlier in the thread) everybody will.  I am laughing only because there is not a way to register unless by the box and any ridiculous form....my guess is a soldier 'might not' know which freaking 'cache' it came out of

Edited July 4, 2013 by BrentMc11

[BrentMc11]

Not sure. Everything know is from reading the DC code. (I took out the cite because IDT anyone would voluntarily want to read it.) Based on what I read, if you can produce a valid registration certificate for the gun and the gauge and caliber match the ammunition, you should be fine.  So in that case, if the registered gun was at home I would take the certificate of registration that matches the ammo WITH me. It seems to be directed at unlicensed ammo suppliers and hoarders. And yeah, a way to double dip on unregistered firearm charges.  This way if you get nabbed for an unregistered firearm AND it's loaded or there's bullets on hand. Boom. They can tack on an additional charge and/or up to $1000 fine or a 1 year sentence. 

I guess DC code stand for Washington DC at this point of ridicule 

 

I have my shotgun ready for action at any time.....   Happy July 4th!!!!  

[jvan1973]

It makes sense if you have to register a gun then you should have to register the ammo that comes with it, Picky but it makes sense

it makes so much sense that only a hand full of cities in the world have this stupid law on the books

[jvan1973]

Not sure. Everything know is from reading the DC code. (I took out the cite because IDT anyone would voluntarily want to read it.) Based on what I read, if you can produce a valid registration certificate for the gun and the gauge and caliber match the ammunition, you should be fine. So in that case, if the registered gun was at home I would take the certificate of registration that matches the ammo WITH me. It seems to be directed at unlicensed ammo suppliers and hoarders. And yeah, a way to double dip on unregistered firearm charges. This way if you get nabbed for an unregistered firearm AND it's loaded or there's bullets on hand. Boom. They can tack on an additional charge and/or up to $1000 fine or a 1 year sentence.

dumb law

[Superman]

dumb law

 

Perhaps. But there are a lot of those.

[Gavin]

it makes so much sense that only a hand full of cities in the world have this stupid law on the books

Im not sure you can judge how fair or how much sense a law makes based on another states laws, We dont know the reason that lead to the law or how long it has been enforced

[NewColtsFan]

it makes so much sense that only a hand full of cities in the world have this stupid law on the books

 

Most of those cities don't have the gun crime problem that Washington DC has.

 

DC has been trying to deal with gun crime problems for years, if not decades.

 

Just because a law is unique to a city,  doesn't make it dumb.....

[jvan1973]

Most of those cities don't have the gun crime problem that Washington DC has.

DC has been trying to deal with gun crime problems for years, if not decades.

Just because a law is unique to a city, doesn't make it dumb.....

well if it's such an effective law, why wouldn't more cities adopt it?

[NewColtsFan]

well if it's such an effective law, why wouldn't more cities adopt it?

 

Good question....

 

I don't know much about the law.   Maybe it's new and hasn't been proven effective yet?

 

Maybe other cities don't have the crime that DC does,  though Chicago would easily seem to.

 

Politics also plays a roll in these kind of matters.    Getting laws passed is often easier said than done,  especially when it comes to guns and ammo and such.....

 

I know DC passed a gun restriction law that was so tough it was challenged and it went all the way to the Supreme Court where DC lost and their law got tossed.    Perhaps this law is another attempt to curb gun violence.    I don't know.    I'm just willing to cut these cities some slack on such matters.    

[jvan1973]

Good question....

I don't know much about the law. Maybe it's new and hasn't been proven effective yet?

Maybe other cities don't have the crime that DC does, though Chicago would easily seem to.

Politics also plays a roll in these kind of matters. Getting laws passed is often easier said than done, especially when it comes to guns and ammo and such.....

I know DC passed on gun restriction law that was so tough it was challenged and it went all the way to the Supreme Court where DC lost and their law got tossed. Perhaps this law is another attempt to curb gun violence. I don't know. I'm just willing to cut these cities some slack on such matters.

the thing that these cities never seem to learn is, gun laws do not curb gun violence.

[southwest1]

please explain how one would go about registering ammo? Our nations capital has some stupid laws..

 

 

It makes sense if you have to register a gun then you should have to register the ammo that comes with it, Picky but it makes sense

 

 

It's actually called unlawful possession of ammunition not unregistered. In Joe's case all it means is: His ammunition had to match the gauge and caliber of a registered firearm. That's it. So unless you're (1) a licensed gun dealer or (2) an (on the job) law enforcement officer, all ammunition must match a registered gun.

Actually, my guess would be if someone bought large quantities of armor piercing bullets like say for a midnight bank withdrawal. But how would ATF [Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms] determine recreational shooting from a self inflicted retirement package? Just Kidding! It would have to do with the quantity of rounds bought in a single purchase session & the magazine capacity of the gun or guns in question. But then again, since the ATF has no national database to track massive bullet sales just whether shell casings match a crime scene robbery or homicide or not. 

 

What cigarette & spirit goes well with machine gun BTW? Only teasing! Explosives & C4 are easy to track across state lines & even ship & plane manifests sometimes, but bullets are another matter entirely unless the volume is so high there is no way to conceal their transport as a result of sloppy record keeping engaged in a criminal enterprise like drug smuggling  etc. etc. 

[Gavin]

Actually, my guess would be if someone bought large quantities of armor piercing bullets like say for a midnight bank withdrawal. But how would ATF [Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms] determine recreational shooting from a self inflicted retirement package? Just Kidding! It would have to do with the quantity of rounds in a single purchase session & the magazine capacity of the gun or guns in question. But then again, ATF has no national database to track massive bullet sales just whether shell casings match a crime scene robbery or homicide or not. 

 

What cigarette & spirit goes well with machine gun BTW? Just Kidding! 

I believe the law is you can have a firearm in the vehicle that is loaded as long as it is hidden, Thats what I read

[Superman]

We're going off the beaten path here. Let's leave the gun control and legislation debate for another forum.

[southwest1]

dumb law

 

 

Perhaps. But there are a lot of those.

Laws or regulations do provide jobs though particularly in the field of law enforcement. States may have budget shortfalls, but the leaders in charge always find police to patrol the streets. Not all regulations are obsolete in scope or application however IMO. Some yes; some no. 

[southwest1]

We're going off the beaten path here. Let's leave the gun control and legislation debate for another forum.

Okay, I agree, but it's hard to not  mention guns & existing laws in Washington D.C. when ammo, guns, & alcohol all directly coincide with this Lefeged case Superman. I'm not debating the merits of any law just how the law is being used in this specific incident. Nothing more;nothing less. 

[Jay Kirk]

"All told, Lefeged was charged with carrying a firearm without a license, having an unregistered firearm in the district, possessing unregistered ammunition, possessing a firearm in a motor vehicle and possession of an open container of alcohol." 

 

It's bad enough that Lefeged had an unregistered gun, but who in the world also travels with unregistered bullets too?   Jesus, Tank Johnson even talked at the NFL rookie Symposium about the hot water he got into having a gun in his luggage as a player at the airport. Both NFL Network & ESPN mentioned that as being one of the central themes of Johnson's speech & both networks highlighted that very point. Most NFL players often do try to stay informed by watching both networks when they can. 

This state doesn't register bullets,never heard of it,wich if possible totally useless,because anyone who would use them for a crime ,wont have them rgistered lol,Airports are definitely off limits anywhere

[southwest1]

You do make me blush Mr Southwest! I do not deserve such nice accolades.....but I'll take anything that is going!

 

I was not specifically comparing the two misdemeanours, just saying that if we condone misbehaviour (by not cutting) then we are sending out a message to the players (WELL, TO THOSE BELOW THE SUPERSTAR STATUS) that if you get into the sort or trouble Mr Pagano warned you all not to get into, you will still have a future at this ball club. To me, that is setting a bad precedent, and is the beginning of the slippery slope to "Cincinnati Bengalism".....

I appreciate where you are coming from & I like "Cincinatti Bengalism" analogy BHC. You're probably right. Kill bad behavior before it spreads like an unstoppable wildfire. I always sing the praises of my friends no matter what BHC. As the scorpion said to the frog, "it's in my nature."  ;)   I'd give Brazill one more shot to get his life together to remain on this roster. 1 more indescretion and he's gone from INDY forever. JMO.

[southwest1]

I believe the law is you can have a firearm in the vehicle that is loaded as long as it is hidden, Thats what I read

Thanks for that clarification Gavin. I appreciate that my friend.   Okay, SW1 better drop this topic for now. I don't wanna get any to any trouble. 

[Jules]

Unfortunate.

 

But, the beat goes on....

[dw49]

Some of you amaze me. Cut a guy for traveling into the wrong state with a gun registered in another state but not that one? 

 

You do make me blush Mr Southwest! I do not deserve such nice accolades.....but I'll take anything that is going!

 

I was not specifically comparing the two misdemeanours, just saying that if we condone misbehaviour (by not cutting) then we are sending out a message to the players (WELL, TO THOSE BELOW THE SUPERSTAR STATUS) that if you get into the sort or trouble Mr Pagano warned you all not to get into, you will still have a future at this ball club. To me, that is setting a bad precedent, and is the beginning of the slippery slope to "Cincinnati Bengalism".....

 

I would bet anything if this were your son and it was his first time in trouble , you would be signing a little different tune. Buying a gun and registering it and being stupid enough to travel in to DC is not really worthy of destroying a guys career. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see anything charging him with anything else. If they could have charged him with fleeing , intoxication or anything else , we know they would have. As far as this "precedent " stuff , it's always going to be a tough call and I don't think the answer is a zero tolerance.  

[southwest1]

Unfortunate.

 

But, the beat goes on....

True Jules. But, I can't help but wonder what goes through an athlete's head before they do something really boneheaded & stupid. I don't know like hey there do I really wanna jeopardize my NFL earning potential, nice lifestyle, future mansion, & pretty wife by being reckless & not thinking things through? Even if you come from an impoverished background, get a real taste of money, & the good life; why throw that away especially if you worked so hard to make football your ticket out of a dead end neighborhood?   

[southwest1]

Some of you amaze me. Cut a guy for traveling into the wrong state with a gun registered in another state but not that one? 

 

 

I would bet anything if this were your son and it was his first time in trouble , you would be signing a little different tune. Buying a gun and registering it and being stupid enough to travel in to DC is not really worthy of destroying a guys career. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see anything charging him with anything else. If they could have charged him with fleeing , intoxication or anything else , we know they would have. As far as this "precedent " stuff , it's always going to be a tough call and I don't think the answer is a zero tolerance.  

It really boils down to 1 question: How talented/instinctive is Lefeged on the field & is that production consistent enough to pardon this gross error in judgement & keep him on the roster? That's all Pagano, Grigson, & Irsay are thinking about right now dw49...

[Gavin]

All a moot point anyway, He is a backup and barring an unforseen injury to either Bethea or Landry wont see any significant playing time except on special teams and the truth is if your a good special teams player sure you can hang around a little while on the team but eventually your going to have to show that you can be a capable quality starter or else your eventually going to be cut loose in some fashion, you just cant keep every player especially those that have not developed enough skills to start, If by chance Lefeged makes it through the season I doubt he will be brought back anyway

[dw49]

It really boils down to 1 question: How talented/instinctive is Lefeged on the field & is that production consistent enough to pardon this gross error in judgement & keep him on the roster? That's all Pagano, Grigson, & Irsay are thinking about right now dw49...

 

 

I won't argue that one in the least. What I don't buy is that if we keep him , we will become the Cinn. Bengles. Its's a business and they will make a business decision.

[bayone]

Not sure. Everything know is from reading the DC code. (I took out the cite because IDT anyone would voluntarily want to read it.) Based on what I read, if you can produce a valid registration certificate for the gun and the gauge and caliber match the ammunition, you should be fine.  So in that case, if the registered gun was at home I would take the certificate of registration that matches the ammo WITH me. It seems to be directed at unlicensed ammo suppliers and hoarders. And yeah, a way to double dip on unregistered firearm charges.  This way if you get nabbed for an unregistered firearm AND it's loaded or there's bullets on hand. Boom. They can tack on an additional charge and/or up to $1000 fine or a 1 year sentence. 

 

thanks for taking the time to answer