Broncos writer discusses how to get a franchise QB, he says losing purposely to draft a guy like Luck is wise strategy

[JoKeR]

So by not putting your best players on the field, you are trying to win?

Your completely disregarding the point of sitting starters, and yes when you rest starters your trying to win. Your trying to have your cake and eat it too. If you lose it doesn't affect much because generally your playoff seed is locked up.

And how in anyway is this considered tanking? there's nothing to gain, it's nonsensical.

[amfootball]

Your completely disregarding the point of sitting starters, and yes when you rest starters your trying to win. Your trying to have your cake and eat it too. If you lose it doesn't affect much because generally your playoff seed is locked up.

And how in anyway is this considered tanking? there's nothing to gain, it's nonsensical.

You can't have it both ways. You pulled your starters in the second half of the jets game with the lead and still lost. This is the NFL. If you put your JV squad out there you will lose even to the lousy Jets and even more pathetic Bills who beat you in the final game. It is the very definition of tanking and the Colts had EVERYTHING to gain because they were resting starters to gear up for the playoffs and in the process they enabled the Jets to get into the playoffs. That is where the integrity of the game is compromised. Again, I have no issue with it because a team can do whatever it wants. If it does not want to win than it can choose to start its JV squad.

 

And let's be real here. The Colts are known for resting players late in the season. They did it all the time with Manning at QB. So is it really that far-fetched to think an org that has thrown games before would have any issue throwing games in 2011 to get Andrew Luck? I mean it is your MO. Do what is in your own self-interest, right?

[JoKeR]

You can't have it both ways. You pulled your starters in the second half of the jets game with the lead and still lost. This is the NFL. If you put your JV squad out there you will lose even to the lousy Jets and even more pathetic Bills who beat you in the final game. It is the very definition of tanking and the Colts had EVERYTHING to gain because they were resting starters to gear up for the playoffs and in the process they enabled the Jets to get into the playoffs. That is where the integrity of the game is compromised. Again, I have no issue with it because a team can do whatever it wants. If it does not want to win than it can choose to start its JV squad.

 

And let's be real here. The Colts are known for resting players late in the season. They did it all the time with Manning at QB. So is it really that far-fetched to think an org that has thrown games before would have any issue throwing games in 2011 to get Andrew Luck? I mean it is your MO. Do what is in your own self-interest, right?

Yes you gain something from resting starters but not from losing. And again resting is not tanking. Would you like to list all the steps needed to tank an entire season so then you can realize that's its impossible? go ahead and list the steps as realistically as you can so i can have a good laugh. Also did Manning get hurt so we can draft Andrew Luck? And what if Luck, RG3, Wilson were not available? We still would've sucked and it wouldn't have led to good fortune, but it still would've happened.

What happened is the Colts got caught without a viable backup QB, so they signed who they could and it still didn't work out. You think our other players were trying to lose just so Irsay could blow up the team and rebuild? Caldwell and Polian masterminded it just to get fired later? We ended up with the worst record which landed us Andrew Luck.

We have had good fortune lately, deal with it, I'm sure you enjoyed our hardships.

[Superman]

You can't have it both ways. You pulled your starters in the second half of the jets game with the lead and still lost. This is the NFL. If you put your JV squad out there you will lose even to the lousy Jets and even more pathetic Bills who beat you in the final game. It is the very definition of tanking and the Colts had EVERYTHING to gain because they were resting starters to gear up for the playoffs and in the process they enabled the Jets to get into the playoffs. That is where the integrity of the game is compromised. Again, I have no issue with it because a team can do whatever it wants. If it does not want to win than it can choose to start its JV squad.

 

And let's be real here. The Colts are known for resting players late in the season. They did it all the time with Manning at QB. So is it really that far-fetched to think an org that has thrown games before would have any issue throwing games in 2011 to get Andrew Luck? I mean it is your MO. Do what is in your own self-interest, right?

 

Resting starters when you have playoff seeding locked up is entirely different from purposely losing games to secure the #1 pick in the draft. Anyone who doesn't get that is hopeless.

[amfootball]

Yes you gain something from resting starters but not from losing. And again resting is not tanking. Would you like to list all the steps needed to tank an entire season so then you can realize that's its impossible? go ahead and list the steps as realistically as you can so i can have a good laugh. Also did Manning get hurt so we can draft Andrew Luck? And what if Luck, RG3, Wilson were not available? We still would've sucked and it wouldn't have led to good fortune, but it still would've happened.

What happened is the Colts got caught without a viable backup QB, so they signed who they could and it still didn't work out. You think our other players were trying to lose just so Irsay could blow up the team and rebuild? Caldwell and Polian masterminded it just to get fired later? We ended up with the worst record which landed us Andrew Luck.

We have had good fortune lately, deal with it, I'm sure you enjoyed our hardships.

I don't believe they set out to be the worst team in football. i do believe when the Collins signing failed and they inserted Painter and were 0-7, 0-8, 0-9, they were had their sights set on Luck. Would have been foolish not to.

 

I took no joy out of the Colts going 2-14. I absolutely hated the way Manning was treated after the season and his ultimate release. While I understand the business side of it, it was handled terribly by Irsay and co. No one who is fan of football enjoyed anything about the 2011 Colts season - Manning getting hurt and potentially never playing again, the ridiculous carousel of pathetic QBs that were signed and started, and ultimately Manning's exit.

[Superman]

Okay, it wouldn't be the 1st time I misinterpreted an athlete's statement & I'm sure it won't be the last either. My initial reaction to Manning's statement was that the Caldwell coaching regime was unorganized & still getting their feet wet in their new positions. Peyton expects precision & he won't tolerate inefficiency or substandard instruction, work ethic, or playing. Also, when NFL Network host Rich Einsen spoke at length about the nature of his comments Moore or Mudd's names were never even mentioned & I remember that interaction between Rich & Peyton well. 

 

I agree 100% the next in line doesn't always mean the best in line. Funny that you mention Jim Mora Jr. who I thought wasn't given much of a chance to redeem his regular season record after Mike Holmgren retired. Jim won all his preseason Seattle games that year & Jim did have Playoff success in Atlanta under QB Michael Vick. I would have given Mora a longer head coaching leash in the Pacific NW actually, but that's just me.

 

I will acknowledge that Jim Caldwell exceeded my expectations as OC in Baltimore & that I was wrong about his ability to generate offense in Baltimore when Cam Cameron couldn't with the exact same pieces/players. I was glad to see him win a SB after getting the boot in INDY. I had nothing against Jim personally. Can people evolve, adapt, & improve? Sure. Heck, Pete Carol did in Seattle after a brief tenure as HC in New England that got him fired in Foxboro initially so why not Jim Caldwell could be a changed, new & improved coach too right? I need to see that first before I believe it though. Don't worry. I will be fair & objective to Jim or I will make a deliberate effort to give Jim a fair shake if a team hires him to run their franchise on the field anyway. I like what you said about the OC position possibly being his niche though. Not every coordinator is cut out to run an NFL franchise though & there's no shame in that either. A person can still make a good living as a coordinator on a playoff winning team.

 

Nice chatting with you as always Superman.   

 

We actually ran around this topic a few months ago. I'm sure it's in the archives somewhere. Just suffice it to say I didn't get the same impression from Manning's comment that you did. I wouldn't blame Caldwell for the Mudd/Moore situation. Either way, we agree on Caldwell as a head coach, he left a lot to be desired. But as you say with Pete Carroll -- and there are countless other examples in the NFL and other sports -- a guy can struggle in his first stop, and then come back with a better handle on how to do his job. We'll see what the future holds for Caldwell. He'll really be under the microscope this year, as he'll have an entire season complete with training camp to get that offense humming.

[Superman]

I don't believe they set out to be the worst team in football. i do believe when the Collins signing failed and they inserted Painter and were 0-7, 0-8, 0-9, they were had their sights set on Luck. Would have been foolish not to.

 

I took no joy out of the Colts going 2-14. I absolutely hated the way Manning was treated after the season and his ultimate release. While I understand the business side of it, it was handled terribly by Irsay and co. No one who is fan of football enjoyed anything about the 2011 Colts season - Manning getting hurt and potentially never playing again, the ridiculous carousel of pathetic QBs that were signed and started, and ultimately Manning's exit.

 

In that case, why not stick with Painter? Why bench him at 0-11?

[JoKeR]

I don't believe they set out to be the worst team in football. i do believe when the Collins signing failed and they inserted Painter and were 0-7, 0-8, 0-9, they were had their sights set on Luck. Would have been foolish not to.

 

I took no joy out of the Colts going 2-14. I absolutely hated the way Manning was treated after the season and his ultimate release. While I understand the business side of it, it was handled terribly by Irsay and co. No one who is fan of football enjoyed anything about the 2011 Colts season - Manning getting hurt and potentially never playing again, the ridiculous carousel of pathetic QBs that were signed and started, and ultimately Manning's exit.

Irsay has gotten a lot credit for how he handled Mannings release, people wish more teams would follow his lead when releasing superstars. Look I can understand if you wish they kept him, that argument has plenty of merit, but there's no reason to pile on with conspiracy theories and such.

[amfootball]

Irsay has gotten a lot credit for how he handled Mannings release, people wish more teams would follow his lead when releasing superstars. Look I can understand if you wish they kept him, that argument has plenty of merit, but there's no reason to pile on with conspiracy theories and such.

Are you being serious? I thought he treated Manning terribly in his release. I don't disagree with the decision as Luck was there and Manning had a serious neck injury along with being age 35 but still, I thought the whole thing was a circus and that Manning should have been treated better on his release. Am I in the minority on this in this forum as well?

[Gavin]

Are you being serious? I thought he treated Manning terribly in his release. I don't disagree with the decision as Luck was there and Manning had a serious neck injury along with being age 35 but still, I thought the whole thing was a circus and that Manning should have been treated better on his release. Am I in the minority on this as well?

Are you forgetting Manning was the first to go public about everyone "walking on eggshells"? which prompted Irsays politician remark, I dont doubt what Manning said was true at all BUT I dont doubt he new what he was doing when he went public either. It was calculated

[amfootball]

Are you forgetting Manning was the first to go public about everyone "walking on eggshells"? which prompted Irsays politician remark, I dont doubt what Manning said was true at all BUT I dont doubt he new what he was doing when he went public either. It was calculated

I don't know. They basically fired everyone around him while he was there still rehabbing. He was asked a question and answered it. I never associate "calculating" with Manning. The guy is as straight as they come and I thought all that he did for Indy football and the city should have warranted him being treated better. I think the onus was on Irsay to say what he was up to.

[southwest1]

We actually ran around this topic a few months ago. I'm sure it's in the archives somewhere. Just suffice it to say I didn't get the same impression from Manning's comment that you did. I wouldn't blame Caldwell for the Mudd/Moore situation. Either way, we agree on Caldwell as a head coach, he left a lot to be desired. But as you say with Pete Carroll -- and there are countless other examples in the NFL and other sports -- a guy can struggle in his first stop, and then come back with a better handle on how to do his job. We'll see what the future holds for Caldwell. He'll really be under the microscope this year, as he'll have an entire season complete with training camp to get that offense humming.

Yes, I would agree that Jim Caldwell's 1st go round as HC was not exactly awe inspiring to be sure. I wouldn't say that Caldwell is solely responsible for INDY's 2011 collapse. That wouldn't be fair to Jim at all, but I can't completely exonerate him from responsibility either. I just grew weary of Jim's inability to make sideline adjustments at critical junctures in games that's all. There's always a fine line between letting a player or unit work through a problem on the field & forcing a guy to sit on the bench because he is a liability vs asset in crucial situations. Jim never seemed to know the difference IMO or he was afraid to sit anybody down on the bench. 

 

DC's & OC's from Baltimore always seem to be picked for HC jobs in this league like ripe fruit on the vine or branch these days so Caldwell will probably get another opportunity if he really wants one. If I was an owner or GM from a franchise would I pick Jim as my head guy? No, I'd give Rob Ryan [DC with the Saints] or Mike Zimmer [DC with the Bengals] serious consideration first ahead of Jim Caldwell actually. 

 

[JoKeR]

Are you being serious? I thought he treated Manning terribly in his release. I don't disagree with the decision as Luck was there and Manning had a serious neck injury along with being age 35 but still, I thought the whole thing was a circus and that Manning should have been treated better on his release. Am I in the minority on this in this forum as well?

There's no easy way in doing it, But how often do you see the owner of a team and the released player hold a press conference in which they both cry and hug?

[amfootball]

There's no easy way in doing it, But how often do you see the owner of a team and the released player hold a press conference in which they both cry and hug?

No easy way for sure but a classier way I think. The he said, he said in the media was an embarrassment. It didn't have to be that way. Irsay could have said from the get go that he was moving on but instead he began firing everyone around Manning and then acted surprised when Manning said something. I realize it was a delicate situation for Irsay given the love for Manning in Indy but he really failed from a PR standpoint and a personal standpoint.

 

That press conference was the most indigenerous release conference I have ever seen. Irsay fumbled all of his words and Manning was most interested in thanking the fans of Indy which he did eloquently and passionately. Irsay was just there for PR purposes it seemed to me anyways.

[Nadine]

No easy way for sure but a classier way I think. The he said, he said in the media was an embarrassment. It didn't have to be that way. Irsay could have said from the get go that he was moving on but instead he began firing everyone around Manning and then acted surprised when Manning said something. I realize it was a delicate situation for Irsay given the love for Manning in Indy but he really failed from a PR standpoint and a personal standpoint.

 

That press conference was the most indigenerous release conference I have ever seen. Irsay fumbled all of his words and Manning was most interested in thanking the fans of Indy which he did eloquently and passionately. Irsay was just there for PR purposes it seemed to me anyways.

 

Really?  Do you think that Kraft releasing Wes Welker was more of a model on how to release a star? http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9069558/wes-welker-agency-says-new-england-patriots-made-take-leave-offer

[Gavin]

I don't know. They basically fired everyone around him while he was there still rehabbing. He was asked a question and answered it. I never associate "calculating" with Manning. The guy is as straight as they come and I thought all that he did for Indy football and the city should have warranted him being treated better. I think the onus was on Irsay to say what he was up to.

He never once said releasing Peyton was absolutely  not an option(He said he would be back if Irsay thought he was healthy....Turns out by Peytons own admittence more then once now that Irsay was right because Peyton still says he is not 100 percent) though and the team comes before the player, irsay just decided not to pick up Mannings option bonus, Why would he when Irsay did not know for sure what kind of shape Manning would be in, Turns out Mannings on field performance certainly did not suffer or at least noticeably to  the average fan but Peyton just recently said he still is not 100 percent. Irsay had an extremely tough call to make, There is no "right" or "wrong" call. there is only HIS call based on the facts that were available at the time. There is no room for second guessing when your required to make tough decisions, Thats a long dark road that can lead to alot of sleepless nights, He chose the potential to build something special for the next 15 years give or take a couple years instead of chasing a ring with talent around Manning but simply not enough talent to go around on the other side of the ball

 

I found an article reflecting on the decision and what led up to it  wrote by Bob Kravitz http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/03/01/jim-irsay-colts-owner-peyton-manning-andrew-luck-rg3/1957267/

 Its a fairly recent article, A little over 2 months old

[amfootball]

Really?  Do you think that Kraft releasing Wes Welker was more of a model on how to release a star? http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9069558/wes-welker-agency-says-new-england-patriots-made-take-leave-offer

I am not sure what you are referencing here as Welker was not released. He chose not to sign with the Pats despite being offered two contracts the last two years...one at two years/$16mil two seasons ago and this past off-season two years/$10mil.

 

It is interesting that you bring up the Pats. Kraft said just a few months ago when he did the extension with Brady that his main impetus in negotiating the 50 precent under market extension was to keep from happening to Brady what happened to Manning and other superstar players, i.e. Montana, Favre, Emmitt Smith, http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9011747/report-robert-kraft-new-england-patriots-says-tom-brady-deal-brokered-plane

[amfootball]

He never once said releasing Peyton was absolutely  not an option(He said he would be back if Irsay thought he was healthy....Turns out by Peytons own admittence more then once now that Irsay was right because Peyton still says he is not 100 percent) though and the team comes before the player, irsay just decided not to pick up Mannings option bonus, Why would he when Irsay did not know for sure what kind of shape Manning would be in, Turns out Mannings on field performance certainly did not suffer or at least noticeably to  the average fan but Peyton just recently said he still is not 100 percent. Irsay had an extremely tough call to make, There is no "right" or "wrong" call. there is only HIS call based on the facts that were available at the time. There is no room for second guessing when your required to make tough decisions, Thats a long dark road that can lead to alot of sleepless nights, He chose the potential to build something special for the next 15 years give or take a couple years instead of chasing a ring with talent around Manning but simply not enough talent to go around on the other side of the ball

 

I found an article reflecting on the decision and what led up to it  wrote by Bob Kravitz http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/03/01/jim-irsay-colts-owner-peyton-manning-andrew-luck-rg3/1957267/

 Its a fairly recent article, A little over 2 months old

I agree that releasing Manning was the right move all things considered with his health, contract, and Luck sitting there for the taking with the first pick. I just thought Irsay handled the situation poorly from when the season ended to when Peyton was released. I thought Peyton deserved better treatment given his 14 years in Indy.

[Nadine]

I am not sure what you are referncing here as Welker was not released. He chose not to sign with the Pats despite being offered two contracts the last two years...one at two years/$16mil two seasons ago and this past off-season two years/$10mil.

 

It is interesting that you bring up the Pats. Kraft said just a few months ago when he did the extension with Brady that his main impetus in negotiating the 50 precent under market extension was to keep from happening to Brady what happened to Manning.

ok am I'm done

.you have tunnel vision.  Seems you are not here for discussion as much as you are here to post and repost your shots at our team

[Gavin]

I agree that releasing Manning was the right move all things considered with his health, contract, and Luck sitting there for the taking with the first pick. I just thought Irsay handled the situation poorly from when the season ended to when Peyton was released. I thought Peyton deserved better treatment given his 14 years in Indy.

I think the whole situation could have been handled better on both sides but I dont fault Irsay for referring to Peyton as a politician. No one can tell me as smart as Peyton is that his remarks weren't calculated BUT also out of hurt

[amfootball]

ok am I'm done

.you have tunnel vision.  Seems you are not here for discussion as much as you are here to post and repost your shots at our team

What shots? I think it is pretty widely held belief that Manning was not treated well on his release. No org is perfect. I also think it was a difficult situation and would have been messy no matter how Irsay did it but I think he could have done better.  I am sure he has regrets.

[amfootball]

I think the whole situation could have been handled better on both sides but I dont fault Irsay for referring to Peyton as a politician. No one can tell me as smart as Peyton is that his remarks weren't calculated BUT also out of hurt

Yes, I think the politician statment was accurate but why say it? I know both sides were hurt and scrambling a bit so you have to expect that somewhat. To be honest, it was tough to watch. I was really happy that Kraft did that deal with Brady as believe me everyone in NE figured the same was coming for Brady sooner or later. Of course there are no guarantees, Brady may still have tough times in NE down the road...I hope not.

[ViriLudant]

Re Spygate. I do not think it helped them in any way, shape or form. But it was very naughty, and the punishment was insufficient. I'd have made Kraft sell-up, banned Belicheck for life, and moved the franchise to L.A.

Oh, and make Brady wear a girlie haircut.

What do you think he had when it was long?

[shakedownstreet]

What do you think he had when it was long?

 

he has pretty hair and it smells nice too

 

 

[ViriLudant]

Honest question for you, how did you feel about what the Colts did in 2009? Resting all their starters the last two games letting the Jets get into the playoffs as a result?

There were MANY Colt fans here that were okay with the move.

Quite a few fans disagreed with it, but just as many were fine with it .

[bayone]

Honest question for you, how did you feel about what the Colts did in 2009? Resting all their starters the last two games letting the Jets get into the playoffs as a result?

 

 

There were MANY Colt fans here that were okay with the move.

Quite a few fans disagreed with it, but just as many were fine with it .

 

I absolutely hated it   thought the vast majority  forum members did too like 90 % , then again site has changed since merging 2 sites so its a different population now as such Viriludant may be remembering from site mine merged into so i will not say he is wrong as he again may have been on f different forum than me

 

Now what I really think was stupd was with 2 minuts left in Jets AFC Champ game,and in full control and u r worried about player safety why did Polian leave in Freeney  only to get hurt

 

He miraculously played in Superbowl with high ankle sprain ( remember at news conferences his ankle was in O2 hyperbaric chamber )  when only he expected it, was quite effective in first half  & shut breeze down to 2 field goals but after a rest the ankle had to blow up in halftime no matter the taping, ( that is a professional opinion too ) and he was ineffective in the  2nd half & Brees just had his way

 

so again I hold Polian responsible for Freeneys injury as if worried about players so dont go for perfect season it was a unconscionable  to let him stay in and get hurt when game was won

 

Thats is form  me good night

[Gavin]

Part of me wanted to leave our starters in in 2009 but I saw the logic in pulling them so I dont hold that over anyones head that was on the coaching staff at the time

[GoColts8818]

In that case, why not stick with Painter? Why bench him at 0-11?

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!

 

If they were trying to lose games to get Luck why on earth would the pull Painter before they had the top pick locked up?  One could argue they didn't go winless but once they beat the Titans playing to beat the Texans four days later maxes NO sense because they didn't have the top pick locked up.  Heck at the time of the Texans game they weren't even promised a top two pick.  They didn't lock that up till the Vikings won later that weekend.  So by beating the Texans they put themselves in position to maybe miss out on BOTH Luck and RG3.  That makes zero sense if the goal had become to get the top pick. 

 

Heck why even go away from Kerry Collins in the first place if the goal was to get the top pick?  He was doing a bad enough job on his own to the point the Colts pretty much made up an injury if reports are to be believed just to make him go away and open up a spot for Dan Orlovsky in the first place.  If they were trying to lose they would have just stuck with Collins and Painter they were doing a bad enough job on their own. 

 

On top of all of this you have to over look the fact that the Head Coach, GM, and several players all lost their jobs after the season.  What do they love the Colts so much they were willing to sacrifice their careers so the Colts could have Andrew Luck?  I don't think so.  Also if it was a plan from Irsay on down he wouldn't have fired the Head Coach and GM for getting the Top Pick they would have done exactly what he wanted too.

 

At the end of the day it's a lot more fun to say the Colts lost purpose to get Andrew Luck than it is to say the Colts just stunk without Peyton Manning. 

[GoColts8818]

I don't believe they set out to be the worst team in football. i do believe when the Collins signing failed and they inserted Painter and were 0-7, 0-8, 0-9, they were had their sights set on Luck. Would have been foolish not to.

 

I took no joy out of the Colts going 2-14. I absolutely hated the way Manning was treated after the season and his ultimate release. While I understand the business side of it, it was handled terribly by Irsay and co. No one who is fan of football enjoyed anything about the 2011 Colts season - Manning getting hurt and potentially never playing again, the ridiculous carousel of pathetic QBs that were signed and started, and ultimately Manning's exit.

As someone who lived threw every moment of that not only as a Colts fan but as a person in Indianapolis Peyton was anything but miss treated by Jim Irsay on the way out.  Frankly Irsay showed him more respect than any other player who was released by his current team that was still going to play in the NFL that I can remember.  Peyton was giving a press conference by his team to say good bye.  They put up a thank you banner for him in the stadium and Jim Irsay announced the number 18 jersey was retired for all intensive purposes.  The only other thing they could have done was throw him a parade on his way out of town.

 

Frankly it was a decision that they tried very hard to find any other way in the world to keep from making.  However, as people who were not emotionally connected to it said from the start they made the only choice that made sense.  It's a business and sometimes a smart business move means having to make very hard emotional decision.  Not unlike when the Pat let Welker walk.  They made the decision they thought was best for their "business" that resulted in a fan favorite having to leave town.  This happens in the NFL.  It's a side effect of the salary cap.  It stinks but it's a part of the business.  What doesn't happen every day is all the respect that the Colts/Jim Irsay showed him on the way out. 

[Superman]

Yes, I think the politician statment was accurate but why say it? I know both sides were hurt and scrambling a bit so you have to expect that somewhat. To be honest, it was tough to watch. I was really happy that Kraft did that deal with Brady as believe me everyone in NE figured the same was coming for Brady sooner or later. Of course there are no guarantees, Brady may still have tough times in NE down the road...I hope not.

 

Irsay shouldn't have said it. He also shouldn't have said that Manning would be a Colt as long as he wanted to. Irsay shouldn't have said what he said about Manning not being cleared by the Colts doctors, etc. Manning shouldn't have said some of the things he said, either. Both of them played the PR game, both were very aware of what was going on, and both of them would have been better served to just say nothing throughout the entire ordeal. Mostly Irsay, since the decision was his.

 

Still, the black and white of it is that it was a tough decision to make, and Irsay clearly didn't enjoy making it. In the end, he paid Manning $26m for one season, in which Manning didn't play a single down. Hard for me to feel like Manning was mistreated, just because of that. Irsay did what he thought was best, and there was no easy way for that to be done.

 

The Manning saga was entirely different from anything the Patriots would have had to do with Brady, at least I hope so. I hope Brady never has to miss a season because of a 50/50 neck condition, where his future in the league is in doubt. I hope the Patriots never do a silly contract structure that forces the team's hand after one year. What Brady's new contract does is makes it easier for the team to keep him and make decisions in the future about what to do with him. And that's in his best interests, as an aging player. Completely different from what happened with Manning in 2011.

[Superman]

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!

 

If they were trying to lose games to get Luck why on earth would the pull Painter before they had the top pick locked up?  One could argue they didn't go winless but once they beat the Titans playing to beat the Texans four days later maxes NO sense because they didn't have the top pick locked up.  Heck at the time of the Texans game they weren't even promised a top two pick.  They didn't lock that up till the Vikings won later that weekend.  So by beating the Texans they put themselves in position to maybe miss out on BOTH Luck and RG3.  That makes zero sense if the goal had become to get the top pick. 

 

Heck why even go away from Kerry Collins in the first place if the goal was to get the top pick?  He was doing a bad enough job on his own to the point the Colts pretty much made up an injury if reports are to be believed just to make him go away and open up a spot for Dan Orlovsky in the first place.  If they were trying to lose they would have just stuck with Collins and Painter they were doing a bad enough job on their own. 

 

On top of all of this you have to over look the fact that the Head Coach, GM, and several players all lost their jobs after the season.  What do they love the Colts so much they were willing to sacrifice their careers so the Colts could have Andrew Luck?  I don't think so.  Also if it was a plan from Irsay on down he wouldn't have fired the Head Coach and GM for getting the Top Pick they would have done exactly what he wanted too.

 

At the end of the day it's a lot more fun to say the Colts lost purpose to get Andrew Luck than it is to say the Colts just stunk without Peyton Manning. 

 

The directive would have had to come from Irsay. And he then turned around and cleared out everyone who might have had a role in carrying out his desired objective. And since then, no one that he got rid of has said a peep about this. If I were one of the Polians, and Irsay told me he wanted to lose and get the top pick, and then he turned around and fired me the day after the season ended, you can be sure that I would have made the media aware of his plan, one way or the other. Same thing if I were on the coaching staff. 

 

It just doesn't make sense.

[GoColts8818]

The directive would have had to come from Irsay. And he then turned around and cleared out everyone who might have had a role in carrying out his desired objective. And since then, no one that he got rid of has said a peep about this. If I were one of the Polians, and Irsay told me he wanted to lose and get the top pick, and then he turned around and fired me the day after the season ended, you can be sure that I would have made the media aware of his plan, one way or the other. Same thing if I were on the coaching staff. 

 

It just doesn't make sense.

Especially when you factor in Polian's Ego.  No way he would have kept his mouth quiet had that been the case. 

[shecolt]

There were MANY Colt fans here that were okay with the move.

Quite a few fans disagreed with it, but just as many were fine with it .

 

That's odd, because I don't quite remember it that way.

 

While I do think that many fans have now come to terms with the decision to pull the starters in the game vs. the Jets, I think a more accurate statement would be:

 

There were a FEW Colt fans here that were okay with the move.

Many fans disagreed with it and far outnumbered those who were fine with it. 

 

I remember a forum that had gone nutz    with thread after thread after thread made by those who were angry/disappointed.

 

I remember a thread that was titled something to the effect that the decision to pull the starters in that game was the worst thing that had ever happened to him/her or that it was the worst day in that person's life.

 

I remember fans calling out Polian on his radio show.

 

And, I also remember being glad that I wasn't a moderator at the time because they had their hands full trying to keep peace on the forums. 

 

In fact, it was so bad that Mike Florio (I think it was him, could have been somebody else) even wrote an article about it. 

[House]

That's odd, because I don't quite remember it that way.

While I do think that many fans have now come to terms with the decision to pull the starters in the game vs. the Jets, I think a more accurate statement would be:

There were a FEW Colt fans here that were okay with the move.

Many fans disagreed with it and far outnumbered those who were fine with it.

I remember a forum that had gone nutz with thread after thread after thread made by those who were angry/disappointed.

I remember a thread that was titled something to the effect that the decision to pull the starters in that game was the worst thing that had ever happened to him/her or that it was the worst day in that person's life.

I remember fans calling out Polian on his radio show.

And, I also remember being glad that I wasn't a moderator at the time because they had their hands full trying to keep peace on the forums.

In fact, it was so bad that Mike Florio (I think it was him, could have been somebody else) even wrote an article about it.

I can't think of one person I talked to or read about that was like,"Yeah I'm happy we did this."

Never happened lol. And if they did they were being contrarian.

[GoColts8818]

I can't think of one person I talked to or read about that was like,"Yeah I'm happy we did this."

Never happened lol. And if they did they were being contrarian.

This part is the key part.  There were those of us who understood the logic behind it but just because we understood the logic behind it didn't mean we were glad they did it. 

[MAC]

Thank you for your elaborate response. I get that the tanking issue is a sore spot but if you read my posts, I am not saying it to disparage the Colts, on the contrary, I think they were smart and savvy to tank. I have no issue with the tanking for the same reasons you have no issue with the resting of starters. You see the resting of starters as a sacrifice for a bigger cause - winning the SB that season. As you say, football is 16 games and every minute counts and injuries can happen on any play.

 

In looking at 2011, I see the Colts FO sacrificing a season that was lost anyways when Manning had his neck fused so they could gain a franchise QB for the next 10-15 years. Once Collins proved to be the bust that most thought he would be outside of Indy anyways, I think the writing was on the wall once Painter was inserted. I don't see this as an integrity violation as the rules of football state that the worst place team gets the number one draft pick. Why not go for it? I am sure the teams that beat the Colts had no issue with them tanking. It actually helped them. The same way the Colts resting their starters at the end of 2009 helped the Jets get in the playoffs.

You keep returning to casually state that they "tanked" as if it's a fact - "but it's all OK because you understand why they did it" 

 

However it's NOT a fact, that's why people are arguing with you. How would you respond if someone patted you on the back and casually said "Everyone knows that you bribed your supervisor in order to get that promotion, but that's OK, I would have done it first if I thought of it. Good for you!". Wouldn't that make you about choke in frustration as you tried to demonstrate that you did nothing of the kind?

 

Let me try this one more time. The Colts  D I D   N O T   "T A N K" the 2011 season. The superficial impression of casual outside observers is irrelevant to that fact. Whether you personally would have approved and accepted it if they had "tanked" is irrelevant as well. An assumption on your part does not reality make. It simply DIDN'T HAPPEN.

[dw49]

Resting starters when you have playoff seeding locked up is entirely different from purposely losing games to secure the #1 pick in the draft. Anyone who doesn't get that is hopeless.

 

 

 

When I saw this thread , I didn't even open it until a few minutes ago. I can't believe you guys are still trying to reason with a guy that is either not capable or just trying to break your ba....  Seven more pages on this nonsense ? Do yourself a favor and just lock this thread and don't allow anymore on the subject. It's really been beat to death .

[MAC]

When I saw this thread , I didn't even open it until a few minutes ago. I can't believe you guys are still trying to reason with a guy that is either not capable or just trying to break your ba....  Seven more pages on this nonsense ? Do yourself a favor and just lock this thread and don't allow anymore on the subject. It's really been beat to death .

When I was very young my older siblings used to call me "bopper" because I would sit there and pound my head against the wall. I seemed to enjoy it - what can I tell you.

[Nadine]

When I saw this thread , I didn't even open it until a few minutes ago. I can't believe you guys are still trying to reason with a guy that is either not capable or just trying to break your ba....  Seven more pages on this nonsense ? Do yourself a favor and just lock this thread and don't allow anymore on the subject. It's really been beat to death .

 

Good idea

it's going in circles

locked