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Broncos writer discusses how to get a franchise QB, he says losing purposely to draft a guy like Luck is wise strategy


bayone

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I get where you are coming from. But I tell you that your own beat reporter said the Colts were tanking and you say you don't respect his opinion. Ok, but that does not discount it from the evidence that would suggest the Colts tanked. I think we can agree on that.

 

No, we don't agree on that, not at all.

 

First, Kravitz isn't the Colts beat reporter. Mike Chappell is the beat writer. Kravitz is just an Indy Star columnist, one that had been all but frozen out by the Polian front office.

 

Second, just because someone who might have access or get paid to voice an opinion implies something doesn't make it evidence. That's just Kravitz's point of view, and just like everyone else who shares that point of view, it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

 

 

Second, you seem to want to look at the personnel of the Colts and say A=B. Bad QB play means 14 losses. When I watched the Colts play, I saw no heart, no drive. I saw a team give up and go 0-13. That is what the play on the field showed. Plenty of teams win with terrible QBs, take Denver and Tim Tebow. Every single one of the Colts QBs in 2011 can throw a lot better than Tebow yet that Denver team went 7-4 with Tebow, won the division, and a playoff game with a defense ranked 20th in points allowed.

 

The Pats in 2008 with Cassell, a guy that never even played a down in college and an aging defense stepped on the field every game and gave 100 percent. No quit at all. I just didn't see this from the Colts until the Houston game in week 15...

 

 

I don't really have a lot to say about this. You think the Colts played with no hard, no drive, but that makes me wonder if you watched any of the games other than the Saints and Patriots game. Take the Bucs game, for instance, when Eric Foster broke his leg. No heart? No drive? I beg to differ.

 

Suffice it to say that your viewpoint is way off base, and I'll just leave it at that.

 

Comparing the 2011 Colts to the 2008 Patriots is ignoring the fact that the Patriots had a better roster outside of the quarterback (they had just gone 16-0, compared with the 2010 Colts who eeked out a ten win season) and a better coaching staff (Belichick >>> Caldwell, McDaniels >>> Christensen, Dean Pees >>> Larry Coyer). It's also ignoring the fact that Matt Cassel is twice as good as Curtis Painter.

 

Last thing, I'm not saying bad quarterback play was the only thing wrong with the 2011 team. I've iterated the roster deficiencies several times already, and I've pointed out the poor coaching as well. We fixed two of those three things in 2012 (quarterbacking and coaching), and made great strides regarding the third (roster deficiencies). We also got some magic in 2012. Those things combined for an unlikely eleven win season. Like I said, that's a much better argument than anything else you've presented, but it's still not very strong when you consider the details.

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How bad the Colts D was in 2011:

 

"The Colts set an NFL record on pass defense, by allowing 71.2% completed passes by opposing passers.[5]"

 

 

All-time:

 

1. Colts 2011 (71.2%) 2-14

 

2. Lions 2007 (70.1%) 7-9

 

3. Lions 2008 (68.5%) 0-16

 

4. Colts 2008 (68.5%) 12-4

 

5. Vikings 2011 (68.2%) 3-13

 

6. Lions 2009 (68.1%) 2-14

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Always wondered why it took them sooooo long to put Orlovsky in...

 

What's so great about Dan Orlovsky? He's the guy who finished out the Lions 0-16 season (including the game where he stepped out of the back of the end zone), and hadn't started a game in two years.

 

All this revisionist history is exciting and makes for great conversation and one-off statements, but not based in reality.

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Bulger retired and never played again.  Garrard sat out a couple years with a back injury.  Pennington tore his ACL in a pickup basketball game that offseason, I'm pretty sure he retired as well.

 

I'm pretty sure Jeff George and Drew Bledsoe were available tho...

Orloskvy was better than all of them including Collins and you waited to week 14 to start him...

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No, we don't agree on that, not at all.

 

First, Kravitz isn't the Colts beat reporter. Mike Chappell is the beat writer. Kravitz is just an Indy Star columnist, one that had been all but frozen out by the Polian front office.

 

Second, just because someone who might have access or get paid to voice an opinion implies something doesn't make it evidence. That's just Kravitz's point of view, and just like everyone else who shares that point of view, it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

 

 

I don't really have a lot to say about this. You think the Colts played with no hard, no drive, but that makes me wonder if you watched any of the games other than the Saints and Patriots game. Take the Bucs game, for instance, when Eric Foster broke his leg. No heart? No drive? I beg to differ.

 

Suffice it to say that your viewpoint is way off base, and I'll just leave it at that.

 

Comparing the 2011 Colts to the 2008 Patriots is ignoring the fact that the Patriots had a better roster outside of the quarterback (they had just gone 16-0, compared with the 2010 Colts who eeked out a ten win season) and a better coaching staff (Belichick >>> Caldwell, McDaniels >>> Christensen, Dean Pees >>> Larry Coyer). It's also ignoring the fact that Matt Cassel is twice as good as Curtis Painter.

 

Last thing, I'm not saying bad quarterback play was the only thing wrong with the 2011 team. I've iterated the roster deficiencies several times already, and I've pointed out the poor coaching as well. We fixed two of those three things in 2012 (quarterbacking and coaching), and made great strides regarding the third (roster deficiencies). We also got some magic in 2012. Those things combined for an unlikely eleven win season. Like I said, that's a much better argument than anything else you've presented, but it's still not very strong when you consider the details.

0-13 speaks for itself. If you want to see heart and drive in that then that is your free choice.

 

If you think Cassell is twice as good as Painter then I think we are done. Good grief.

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Based on what? Your impeccable hindsight?

Yes. everyone in the football universe knew Painter was terrible which is why you got Collins to begin with which angered Reggie Wayne. Then,after stripping Painter of any confidence he might have had by starting the retired Collins over him, you insert him not for one game, two games, three games, but a string of games thereby tanking the season. Orloskvy was right there and should have been started sooner. The team had none won ONE game.

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Always wondered why it took them sooooo long to put Orlovsky in...

The real question is this: Who had the real authority to make that call & switch QBs: Jim Caldwell or Bill Polian? I am still unsure about that 1 to this day actually. 

 

Warren Moon has kept in pretty good shape.

haha Good one Superman! If you could give him a clean pocket & some capable WRs & TEs, I honestly believe Warren Moon could still win NFL games today. Moon threw a beautiful spiral & he always connected with his open man in stride. I loved watching him in action. Moon was incredible & money in the touchdown bank. Wow!  :worthy: 

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0-13 speaks for itself. If you want to see heart and drive in that then that is your free choice.

 

If you think Cassell is twice as good as Painter then I think we are done. Good grief.

 

So the reason you didn't see any heart and drive in the Colts in 2011 is because you didn't watch any of the games. Got it. That's fine. But don't offer your opinion as if it's an informed one when it's clearly not. You've already made your mind up and don't care to be influenced by reason or fact. You're like Teflon.

 

You think Matt Cassel is that bad, or do you think Painter is that good? Take a look at Cassel's career numbers before you answer that. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CassMa00.htm

 

(I'll give you a hint: You're dead wrong.)

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y4yhtCo.jpg

Come on now, let's not put all of the NE fan base into that category. Sweeping generalizations are unwarranted & counter productive. The Colts have their own football business to worry about this season. Perhaps, we need to focus on our own INDY backyard first. JMO.

Yes, I will admit that routinely slam the Dallas Cowboys a lot myself, but if they win & drop the smack talk, I will shut up & give them credit for getting to the Playoffs & turning the page. Thank you.

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Idk if it's been stated but why would any coach/player/gm compile a gameplan that caused them to be jobless/making a lot less money than they currently are. Think about jsut how many people we let go, you really think they were playing to loose their jobs? Highly doubt that.

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No offense, but this is completely ridiculous logic. If we were indeed trying to lose games on purpose, why would we care about the playoff implication of teams that don't affect us over the future of our franchise?

 

It comes down to motive . . . let me put it to you this way . . . if you had an opportunity and only one opportunity to take down another team in the NFL who would pick? . . .

 

would you pick NE Patriots or say the St. Louis Rams?  Most colts fans, if they had one wish, might want to see the demise/missed the PO/loose the SB of the NE Patriots . . . not to say all colts fans, but it is natural for most to strive to beat their rival . . . and after the pats, the Chargers may be next, and then I would think the division rivals . . . no direct order, but there very likely is a handful of teams that most colts fans would be happy to see lose, especially at the hands of the colts . . .  

 

Lets look at it a different way . . . the Houston Texans last year were the Bees Knees throughout most of the year and even Dennis Green wanted to crown their behind . . . but yet they faltered and came into Indy, a place I believe they have never won, and Indy had an opportunity to protect their house, knocked Houston from a bye, and in fact, from what I remember, were locked into the 5 seed going into the game and so it was otherwise meaningless to them . . . but they came out and won the game . .. now be honest when you watch that game last year, did you not take great pleasure in the win and subsequent knockdown of Houston?  or was it just another Sunday?  My guess is the former, and feel very confident that most of your fellows fans felt the former way too . . .

 

You may have even said something along the lines of "not in this house Houston," "not tonight" "you have not won here and never will" "not in the house Peyton built" "we are temporarily down and you won two division titles, enjoy them why you can cause we taking back the division starting next year" . . .  anyone one of these sound familiar, perhaps a friend may have said one of them . . .

 

And before you ask, yes I did check the schedule in early October to see when the Pats were playing the Colts and we comforted in knowing that it was early enough in the season . . .

 

but my overall point is that people tend to show their colors when things are safe . . . and surely, just as last year, the colts would have motive to want to beat the Texans (you don't think I and the pats take great pleasure in beating the Jets?) . . . with that said my point was that once the colts were 0-13 a win or two would not hurt matters  . . . and given the fact Houston was coming to town, the colts had an opportunity to play to their potential . . . if they were truly a bad team they likely would have lost . . .  but they did not and won the game and secured the shutout of the home win record  . . .

 

This is just one little tidbit about the season that I have, I have some more and am putting them together, just need a little more time to get them all together . . . hopefully before then end of the weekend . . . :)

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a win or two would not hurt matters  . . 

 

Except that it did. Had Minny not won the game in week 16, they would have had the first pick in the draft. Why even risk it? To feel good about beating a team that we've been demolishing for over a decade? I'm not buying it.

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It comes down to motive . . . let me put it to you this way . . . if you had an opportunity and only one opportunity to take down another team in the NFL who would pick? . . .

 

would you pick NE Patriots or say the St. Louis Rams?  Most colts fans, if they had one wish, might want to see the demise/missed the PO/loose the SB of the NE Patriots . . . not to say all colts fans, but it is natural for most to strive to beat their rival . . . and after the pats, the Chargers may be next, and then I would think the division rivals . . . no direct order, but there very likely is a handful of teams that most colts fans would be happy to see lose, especially at the hands of the colts . . .  

 

Lets look at it a different way . . . the Houston Texans last year were the Bees Knees throughout most of the year and even Dennis Green wanted to crown their behind . . . but yet they faltered and came into Indy, a place I believe they have never won, and Indy had an opportunity to protect their house, knocked Houston from a bye, and in fact, from what I remember, were locked into the 5 seed going into the game and so it was otherwise meaningless to them . . . but they came out and won the game . .. now be honest when you watch that game last year, did you not take great pleasure in the win and subsequent knockdown of Houston?  or was it just another Sunday?  My guess is the former, and feel very confident that most of your fellows fans felt the former way too . . .

 

You may have even said something along the lines of "not in this house Houston," "not tonight" "you have not won here and never will" "not in the house Peyton built" "we are temporarily down and you won two division titles, enjoy them why you can cause we taking back the division starting next year" . . .  anyone one of these sound familiar, perhaps a friend may have said one of them . . .

 

And before you ask, yes I did check the schedule in early October to see when the Pats were playing the Colts and we comforted in knowing that it was early enough in the season . . .

 

but my overall point is that people tend to show their colors when things are safe . . . and surely, just as last year, the colts would have motive to want to beat the Texans (you don't think I and the pats take great pleasure in beating the Jets?) . . . with that said my point was that once the colts were 0-13 a win or two would not hurt matters  . . . and given the fact Houston was coming to town, the colts had an opportunity to play to their potential . . . if they were truly a bad team they likely would have lost . . .  but they did not and won the game and secured the shutout of the home win record  . . .

 

This is just one little tidbit about the season that I have, I have some more and am putting them together, just need a little more time to get them all together . . . hopefully before then end of the weekend . . . :)

 

melinda-dang-conjecture.jpg

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I've got it!!!!  The last half decade of poor draft choices by Polian was a clever strategy to deplete the roster of talent in preperation for the season when a young star passer would become available.

 

Then Peyton Manning, in an epic display of selflessness Brady could only dream of, opened up his shoulder and used a claw hammer to injure the nerve in his throwing shoulder.

 

The Colts were terrible and get Andrew Luck while Manning recovers with super secret state of the art stem cell technology and is free to go to Denver to depose Tim Tebow, killing two birds with one stone and fulfilling the final (secret) clause of the deal that sent Elway to the Broncos in the eighties. 

 

It's all so simple!

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I've got it!!!!  The last half decade of poor draft choices by Polian was a clever strategy to deplete the roster of talent in preperation for the season when a young star passer would become available.

 

Then Peyton Manning, in an epic display of selflessness Brady could only dream of, opened up his shoulder and used a claw hammer to injure the nerve in his throwing shoulder.

 

The Colts were terrible and get Andrew Luck while Manning recovers with super secret state of the art stem cell technology and is free to go to Denver to depose Tim Tebow, killing two birds with one stone and fulfilling the final (secret) clause of the deal that sent Elway to the Broncos in the eighties. 

 

It's all so simple!

 

 

Where does Manti Te'o's girlfriend factor into this situation?

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So the reason you didn't see any heart and drive in the Colts in 2011 is because you didn't watch any of the games. Got it. That's fine. But don't offer your opinion as if it's an informed one when it's clearly not. You've already made your mind up and don't care to be influenced by reason or fact. You're like Teflon.

 

You think Matt Cassel is that bad, or do you think Painter is that good? Take a look at Cassel's career numbers before you answer that. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CassMa00.htm

 

(I'll give you a hint: You're dead wrong.)

I watched them and hold the opinion that many others do outside of Indy that the Colts tanked the season. You have not given me any facts just conjecture and your dislike of your own reporter because he does not agree with you. I do agree that because Manning was injured so late in the off-season that his sudden absence really did hamstring Polian and the team. But I def. believe after 0-7, 0-8, 0-9, they had their sights set on Luck. They would have been foolish not to as the season was already lost and Manning had a fused neck at age 35.

 

Like I said before, short of the Colts FO admitting that they tanked which they never would we are only left with the season itself. We see it differently. I am willing to leave it at that. In the end you have Andrew Luck which like I said was worth giving up one lost season for. Now hopefully he does not regress this season and make us have to listen to OIBU. :goodluck:

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I've got it!!!!  The last half decade of poor draft choices by Polian was a clever strategy to deplete the roster of talent in preperation for the season when a young star passer would become available.

 

Then Peyton Manning, in an epic display of selflessness Brady could only dream of, opened up his shoulder and used a claw hammer to injure the nerve in his throwing shoulder.

 

The Colts were terrible and get Andrew Luck while Manning recovers with super secret state of the art stem cell technology and is free to go to Denver to depose Tim Tebow, killing two birds with one stone and fulfilling the final (secret) clause of the deal that sent Elway to the Broncos in the eighties. 

 

It's all so simple!

 

To the bolded, you say that facetiously, but that's really what it comes down to. Occam's razor prevails.

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It comes down to motive . . . let me put it to you this way . . . if you had an opportunity and only one opportunity to take down another team in the NFL who would pick? . . .

 

would you pick NE Patriots or say the St. Louis Rams?  Most colts fans, if they had one wish, might want to see the demise/missed the PO/loose the SB of the NE Patriots . . . not to say all colts fans, but it is natural for most to strive to beat their rival . . . and after the pats, the Chargers may be next, and then I would think the division rivals . . . no direct order, but there very likely is a handful of teams that most colts fans would be happy to see lose, especially at the hands of the colts . . .  

 

Lets look at it a different way . . . the Houston Texans last year were the Bees Knees throughout most of the year and even Dennis Green wanted to crown their behind . . . but yet they faltered and came into Indy, a place I believe they have never won, and Indy had an opportunity to protect their house, knocked Houston from a bye, and in fact, from what I remember, were locked into the 5 seed going into the game and so it was otherwise meaningless to them . . . but they came out and won the game . .. now be honest when you watch that game last year, did you not take great pleasure in the win and subsequent knockdown of Houston?  or was it just another Sunday?  My guess is the former, and feel very confident that most of your fellows fans felt the former way too . . .

 

You may have even said something along the lines of "not in this house Houston," "not tonight" "you have not won here and never will" "not in the house Peyton built" "we are temporarily down and you won two division titles, enjoy them why you can cause we taking back the division starting next year" . . .  anyone one of these sound familiar, perhaps a friend may have said one of them . . .

 

And before you ask, yes I did check the schedule in early October to see when the Pats were playing the Colts and we comforted in knowing that it was early enough in the season . . .

 

but my overall point is that people tend to show their colors when things are safe . . . and surely, just as last year, the colts would have motive to want to beat the Texans (you don't think I and the pats take great pleasure in beating the Jets?) . . . with that said my point was that once the colts were 0-13 a win or two would not hurt matters  . . . and given the fact Houston was coming to town, the colts had an opportunity to play to their potential . . . if they were truly a bad team they likely would have lost . . .  but they did not and won the game and secured the shutout of the home win record  . . .

 

This is just one little tidbit about the season that I have, I have some more and am putting them together, just need a little more time to get them all together . . . hopefully before then end of the weekend . . . :)

You should have a contest with Superman on who can post the longest consecutive posts...my eyes hurt...

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I watched them and hold the opinion that many others do outside of Indy that the Colts tanked the season. You have not given me any facts just conjecture and your dislike of your own reporter because he does not agree with you. I do agree that because Manning was injured so late in the off-season that his sudden absence really did hamstring Polian and the team. But I def. believe after 0-7, 0-8, 0-9, they had their sights set on Luck. They would have been foolish not to as the season was already lost and Manning had a fused neck at age 35.

 

Like I said before, short of the Colts FO admitting that they tanked which they never would we are only left with the season itself. We see it differently. I am willing to leave it at that. In the end you have Andrew Luck which like I said was worth giving up one lost season for. Now hopefully he does not regress this season and make us have to listen to OIBU. :goodluck:

 

inconceivable.jpg

 

You think Kravitz saying the Colts tanked is proof the Colts tanked. That's all I need to know about the way your brain works.

 

Oh wait, one more thing: You've said several times that the Colts set out from the beginning of the season to secure the #1 pick in the draft. Now you're backtracking and claiming that they only decided to do this after they were 0-7, etc. You're argument is already sinking, and you're just helping it along.

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Yes. everyone in the football universe knew Painter was terrible which is why you got Collins to begin with which angered Reggie Wayne. Then,after stripping Painter of any confidence he might have had by starting the retired Collins over him, you insert him not for one game, two games, three games, but a string of games thereby tanking the season. Orloskvy was right there and should have been started sooner. The team had none won ONE game.

Painter had soundly and repeatedly beaten Orlovsky out in practice and training camp. The only reason that Orlovsky was still on the roster was that he was so bad he had no other options with any other team in the league. He chose to sit on the bench behind a low draft pick/unproven player who was sitting on the bench behind a HOFer who had never missed a start to the point that his backup's had become the focal point of bad jokes for years. That should tell you something.

 

Collins was brought in because when it finally clicked that Peyton wasn't going to be able to play, they had about ten minutes to make a decision, and Pollian went with the guy that he had drafted high when he was in Carolina, who was calm, mature, and superficially similar to Peyton in style (Chad Pennington and David Garrard for example would have required the entire offense to be modified for them), who had previously made it to the Super Bowl, and who had recently played successfully for a division rival - demonstrating right before the Colts eyes that he could still play.

 

In retrospect the problem with both Collins and Painter is that they short-sightedly attempted to fit someone into their existing offense. In essence, to replace Peyton. The problem is that there is probably nobody in the history of the sport who could have done that. Too much of his game is mental. Orlovsky had more success than either of them for I would say three reasons - none of which have anything to do with actual talent. 1) When he came in the Colts also switched the focus more to run first. The utterly horrific oline that they had that year had proven to be better at rushing (to the right in particular) than it had at pass blocking, and many fans here spent the bulk of the season complaining that the Colts hadn't adjusted their offense to the QBs capabilities as for example the Broncos had to Tebow. 2) Orlovsky in retrospect is far less prone to bone-headed errors when under pressure than Painter is, and modestly more capable of avoiding trouble in the first place than Collins is. The later while obvious was never going to give him starts over an experienced vet, the former wasn't obvious until both had played several regular season games. That's called hind-site, which is useless when evaluated a decision. 3) By the time Orlovsky came in the pressure was VASTLY reduced, and the bar had been set incredibly low. There were so little expectations that simply not dropping to the field in the fetal position would have been applauded as an accomplishment. The stage was set for him.

 

The bottom line is that the odds are which-ever QB was brought in to start the season would have failed miserably. None of the three (nor any other available QB) were going to be able to step in and salvage the season. I would surmise that a significant reason for the coaching staff being fired was their unwillingness or inability to alter the offense until it was too late. And a significant reason for the front office being fired was their failure to recognize the problem weeks earlier (not years earlier - the arguments that Peyton should have always had a ready-to-go backup behind him are ridiculous, considering that it would never fit under the salary cap and no good QB would want the position - but weeks earlier) because if they had grabbed even someone like Collins before training camp and adjusted the team to him, they would have had a dramatically better record.

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It comes down to motive . . . let me put it to you this way . . . if you had an opportunity and only one opportunity to take down another team in the NFL who would pick? . . .

would you pick NE Patriots or say the St. Louis Rams? Most colts fans, if they had one wish, might want to see the demise/missed the PO/loose the SB of the NE Patriots . . . not to say all colts fans, but it is natural for most to strive to beat their rival . . . and after the pats, the Chargers may be next, and then I would think the division rivals . . . no direct order, but there very likely is a handful of teams that most colts fans would be happy to see lose, especially at the hands of the colts . . .

Lets look at it a different way . . . the Houston Texans last year were the Bees Knees throughout most of the year and even Dennis Green wanted to crown their behind . . . but yet they faltered and came into Indy, a place I believe they have never won, and Indy had an opportunity to protect their house, knocked Houston from a bye, and in fact, from what I remember, were locked into the 5 seed going into the game and so it was otherwise meaningless to them . . . but they came out and won the game . .. now be honest when you watch that game last year, did you not take great pleasure in the win and subsequent knockdown of Houston? or was it just another Sunday? My guess is the former, and feel very confident that most of your fellows fans felt the former way too . . .

You may have even said something along the lines of "not in this house Houston," "not tonight" "you have not won here and never will" "not in the house Peyton built" "we are temporarily down and you won two division titles, enjoy them why you can cause we taking back the division starting next year" . . . anyone one of these sound familiar, perhaps a friend may have said one of them . . .

And before you ask, yes I did check the schedule in early October to see when the Pats were playing the Colts and we comforted in knowing that it was early enough in the season . . .

but my overall point is that people tend to show their colors when things are safe . . . and surely, just as last year, the colts would have motive to want to beat the Texans (you don't think I and the pats take great pleasure in beating the Jets?) . . . with that said my point was that once the colts were 0-13 a win or two would not hurt matters . . . and given the fact Houston was coming to town, the colts had an opportunity to play to their potential . . . if they were truly a bad team they likely would have lost . . . but they did not and won the game and secured the shutout of the home win record . . .

This is just one little tidbit about the season that I have, I have some more and am putting them together, just need a little more time to get them all together . . . hopefully before then end of the weekend . . . :)

What 1 team would I knock out if I had the chance? I don't really view this from a division perspective more like a Playoffs question. Honestly, it would San Diego to me. I know that Philip Rivers has missed the Playoffs for awhile now, but he has always scared me in the same way QB Dan Marino did. A quickly flick of the wrist= a touchdown & there are right back in the thick of things again. I just remember all the fits the Chargers gave Peyton in INDY & Eric Weddle is so dangerous too. I always like going up against NE & Houston. I love tight nail bitter games & I always have.

I have no problem with conjecture at all. In fact, I find it very entertaining. Keep it coming Yehoodi! :thmup: I just despise get embarassed losing to pathetic, dysfunction teams like Jets or the Raiders.

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What 1 team would I knock out if I had the chance? I don't really view this from a division perspective more like a Playoffs question. Honestly, it would San Diego to me. I know that Philip Rivers has missed the Playoffs for awhile now, but he has always scared me in the same way QB Dan Marino did. A quickly flick of the wrist= a touchdown & there are right back in the thick of things again. I just remember all the fits the Chargers gave Peyton in INDY & Eric Weddle is so dangerous too. I always like going up against NE & Houston. I love tight nail bitter games & I always have.

I have no problem with conjecture at all. In fact, I find it very entertaining. Keep it coming Yehoodi! :thmup: I just despise get embarassed losing to pathetic, dysfunction teams like Jets or the Raiders.

 

To the bolded, neither do I. But conjecture isn't fact, nor is it evidence or proof. It's just someone thinking out loud, and it should be regarded as such.

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To the bolded, neither do I. But conjecture isn't fact, nor is it evidence or proof. It's just someone thinking out loud, and it should be regarded as such.

No argument there Superman. I think most people know the difference & interpret replies accordingly. 

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It comes down to motive . . . let me put it to you this way . . . if you had an opportunity and only one opportunity to take down another team in the NFL who would pick? . . .

would you pick NE Patriots or say the St. Louis Rams? Most colts fans, if they had one wish, might want to see the demise/missed the PO/loose the SB of the NE Patriots . . . not to say all colts fans, but it is natural for most to strive to beat their rival . . . and after the pats, the Chargers may be next, and then I would think the division rivals . . . no direct order, but there very likely is a handful of teams that most colts fans would be happy to see lose, especially at the hands of the colts . . .

Lets look at it a different way . . . the Houston Texans last year were the Bees Knees throughout most of the year and even Dennis Green wanted to crown their behind . . . but yet they faltered and came into Indy, a place I believe they have never won, and Indy had an opportunity to protect their house, knocked Houston from a bye, and in fact, from what I remember, were locked into the 5 seed going into the game and so it was otherwise meaningless to them . . . but they came out and won the game . .. now be honest when you watch that game last year, did you not take great pleasure in the win and subsequent knockdown of Houston? or was it just another Sunday? My guess is the former, and feel very confident that most of your fellows fans felt the former way too . . .

You may have even said something along the lines of "not in this house Houston," "not tonight" "you have not won here and never will" "not in the house Peyton built" "we are temporarily down and you won two division titles, enjoy them why you can cause we taking back the division starting next year" . . . anyone one of these sound familiar, perhaps a friend may have said one of them . . .

And before you ask, yes I did check the schedule in early October to see when the Pats were playing the Colts and we comforted in knowing that it was early enough in the season . . .

but my overall point is that people tend to show their colors when things are safe . . . and surely, just as last year, the colts would have motive to want to beat the Texans (you don't think I and the pats take great pleasure in beating the Jets?) . . . with that said my point was that once the colts were 0-13 a win or two would not hurt matters . . . and given the fact Houston was coming to town, the colts had an opportunity to play to their potential . . . if they were truly a bad team they likely would have lost . . . but they did not and won the game and secured the shutout of the home win record . . .

This is just one little tidbit about the season that I have, I have some more and am putting them together, just need a little more time to get them all together . . . hopefully before then end of the weekend . . . :)

Oops! I forget to respond to the bolded section here last time. Actually, my friend I think just the opposite. When you are losing by a large margin, a team tends to show their true colors. Due you pout & hang their head in shame? Or do you keep fighting, stay respectful, & say nice things about your opponent & their victory. When bad things happen people tend to show you exactly who they are & what they are made of IMO. But I do agree 100% Yehoodi that a HC can either jam it down an opponent's throat or put back up players in once victory is a foregone conclusion.
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Painter had soundly and repeatedly beaten Orlovsky out in practice and training camp. The only reason that Orlovsky was still on the roster was that he was so bad he had no other options with any other team in the league. He chose to sit on the bench behind a low draft pick/unproven player who was sitting on the bench behind a HOFer who had never missed a start to the point that his backup's had become the focal point of bad jokes for years. That should tell you something.

 

Collins was brought in because when it finally clicked that Peyton wasn't going to be able to play, they had about ten minutes to make a decision, and Pollian went with the guy that he had drafted high when he was in Carolina, who was calm, mature, and superficially similar to Peyton in style (Chad Pennington and David Garrard for example would have required the entire offense to be modified for them), who had previously made it to the Super Bowl, and who had recently played successfully for a division rival - demonstrating right before the Colts eyes that he could still play.

 

In retrospect the problem with both Collins and Painter is that they short-sightedly attempted to fit someone into their existing offense. In essence, to replace Peyton. The problem is that there is probably nobody in the history of the sport who could have done that. Too much of his game is mental. Orlovsky had more success than either of them for I would say three reasons - none of which have anything to do with actual talent. 1) When he came in the Colts also switched the focus more to run first. The utterly horrific oline that they had that year had proven to be better at rushing (to the right in particular) than it had at pass blocking, and many fans here spent the bulk of the season complaining that the Colts hadn't adjusted their offense to the QBs capabilities as for example the Broncos had to Tebow. 2) Orlovsky in retrospect is far less prone to bone-headed errors when under pressure than Painter is, and modestly more capable of avoiding trouble in the first place than Collins is. The later while obvious was never going to give him starts over an experienced vet, the former wasn't obvious until both had played several regular season games. That's called hind-site, which is useless when evaluated a decision. 3) By the time Orlovsky came in the pressure was VASTLY reduced, and the bar had been set incredibly low. There were so little expectations that simply not dropping to the field in the fetal position would have been applauded as an accomplishment. The stage was set for him.

 

The bottom line is that the odds are which-ever QB was brought in to start the season would have failed miserably. None of the three (nor any other available QB) were going to be able to step in and salvage the season. I would surmise that a significant reason for the coaching staff being fired was their unwillingness or inability to alter the offense until it was too late. And a significant reason for the front office being fired was their failure to recognize the problem weeks earlier (not years earlier - the arguments that Peyton should have always had a ready-to-go backup behind him are ridiculous, considering that it would never fit under the salary cap and no good QB would want the position - but weeks earlier) because if they had grabbed even someone like Collins before training camp and adjusted the team to him, they would have had a dramatically better record.

First, thank you for your thorough and well-reasoned response. Don't often get that around here.

 

Couple of questions for you - even if Painter was better in practice, his play on the field was abhorent. Quite simply he did not win a game and looked terrible in the process. They say Mark Sanchez is a very good practice player as well. Why wait until week 13 to try Orloskky? Not one game won? Nothing to lose except the season. Then when Orlosky was put in it took him all of one half against the Pats to start clicking and help the team win 2 of their last 3.

 

I don't disagree about the Manning condundrum but to think a retired, washed up Collins was the answer is laughable. I don't disagree that Polian was familar with the guy and was hoping and praying he could do something but honestly it was an embarrassment. I think Pennington or Gerrard would have given the Colts a punchers chance in most games and had won at least a few before week 14 rolled around.

 

And the fact remains that Orloskvy could function in the Manning/Indy offense so that is where your argument falls apart. A FO that was really interested in salvaging the season would have tried several QBs to see what one might have clicked the way Orloskvy did. Instead they went with Painter until the team was 0-12. That is tanking to me no matter how you want to spin it. I can assure you if Cassell had gone 0-7 in his first series of the starts, Bill would have pulled him and gone with a veteran FA. Heck, Bill might have yanked him at 0-2 if he looked as bad as Painter did. 

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The weird thing is when you look at Matt Cassel in 2008 after Brady went down with his knee injury removing him for the season vs the Colts bringing in Kerry Collins in 2011. We crashed & burned & NE skyrocketed. I always marveled at that stark contrast & I give NE a ton of credit. Bill Belichick & his coaching staff didn't skip a beat. Personally, I blame Bill Polian for having no back up plan for Peyton Manning going down & a 6 time Executive of the Year should know better darn it. I fell into the trap of thinking Kerry Collins was still agile & could throw the ball similar to what he did in 2000 vs the Baltimore. Jesus, was I in for a rude awaking. Our o-line was horrible & Collins had cement blocks for feet. I knew in 5 minutes we were dead in the water once Collins took the rains...Sigh...

 

Another reason I respect NE: New QB inserted & Foxboro just keeps humming. It was a beautiful thing to watch. Tom Brady? Tom who? We will win with Cassel & they went 11-5. Very Impressive! That's what I want if Andrew goes down we will still win games with Matthew Hasselback. Just like NE, I want no sense of panic & to circle the wagons. 

 

I will always respect NE & their resilency & I don't care if I take heat for saying that either. There's a reason NE keeps winning year after year. No excuses & no complacency. I wanna see us reach the exact same level of adaptability, toughness, & resilency & under HC Pagano & GM Grigson we will get there eventually. 

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Somewhere out there, Bayone, the OP, is slowly crawling under a chair. :hide:

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

Chad I am here and will have an answer for u shortly, also u may note i basicaly have been absent fromm all topics 

 

There was a point in the season that the Colts Front OPffice Or Caldwell said they mistakenly didnt design an offense to play to what strengths Painter did in their mind have and that was why he was ineffective, do not remember exactly who or when that was stated

 

------------------

 

Chad in comment 48 BELOW , my only comment I noted in responce to amfootball, on 08 May 2013 - 3:54 PM, said:

 

BUT THERE IS A  MORE VITAL REASON NOT HERE & NEED TO FIND WHERE WROTE IT  Re Tuesday but wrote wed

 

once i do will copy & past into a responce for u in this thread as its in another I THINK, &I belive it was my last respoonse and m,ay have been to mac, know was commentimng back & forth with him before that

 

 

Posted Yesterday, 04:28 PM

amfootball, on 08 May 2013 - 3:54 PM, said:snapback.png

The writer seems to be stating it as if it is a logical conclusion based on the season. He sees no need to support his claim as it is obviously a widely held belief outside of Indy. At least that is my take on his article.

 

when u read the entire article he gives 4 ways to get a franchise QB & in his opinion if a once in a generation QB is available such as Luck its best to tank a season than trade a # of picks or players or combo for a # 1 draft spot or for established Franchise QB, he particular doesn't like am established one due to the quick cap hit 

 

He has no proof simply suggests players dont need to even be involved, the staff simply doesnt implement a good game plan to win as an easy strategy, thus no proof

 

he does not that the washington trade so far worked out but RG3 lets face it was also considered a cant miss, and Morris the RB was an unexpected Gem of a pick

 

here is # 4

 

 

Stockpiling QBs in the hope that eventually one of them turns out to be a franchise guy:

This seems to be the move that the Broncos are taking. This is the least risky way to seek out a replacement quarterback. Hey, Tom Brady was a 6th round pick, so nobody can say for sure that this is a losing proposition.

 

When you think about it, what does a team have to lose by adopting this philosophy? Is a franchise QB worth a 2nd round pick as Osweiller was? Absolutely!!! Is a franchise QB worth a 6th round pick as Brady was? How about a 7th round pick like Dysert is? The point is that it is virtually free to draft QBs every year in hopes that at some point before your franchise guy retires, one of them wows you enough to proclaim him your heir apparent.  ((( Broncos this year also signed an undrafted QB FA ))

 

What's the downside to this philosophy? Well, you'll be wasting an awful lot of draft picks that could otherwise be used to help your current team win games. Just as QBs can be found anywhere in the draft, so too can every other position. How tragic would it have been if we took an absolute nobody QB in the 6th round instead of Terrell Davis.

 

(( MY opinion   Like last year could of had Douug Martin & Wolfe instead of taking Brock and trading extra pick got by trading down awayu to trade  up for hillman , then wouldnt of needed Ball this year  and could of taken another posution instead of Hillman at RB

and Martin may have been enough to make a winning difference )))

 

He concludes with a paragraghg saying tanking is best

 

 

 

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I always think it's funny that Spygate will just never die. It's like JFK conspiracies; they just keep multiplying. What are anti Patriots haters gonna cling to when you win a 4th SB? haha

Find a counter part to Talib in the secondary & 1 solid pass rusher who can shed blocks consistently & you will reach the Promiseland & win IMO...It's not a matter of if, but when...I was the 2nd guy in Dallas on the grassy noel in '63. Just Kidding! [Dark sarcasm is my preferred method of humor.]

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