Football Gameplan's Inside the War Room: Indianapolis Colts

[FalseStart]

Arthur Brown is also been compared to Navarro Bowman by some people and NFL.com

Would an inside linebacker in the 1st provide a better game value down by down over a 1st round WR or G?  I'm not so sure based on 2012s reality.  I like AB a lot, but...

 

~50 dropped passes

~40 sacks

~Andrew Lucks health

~Marginal running game

[FalseStart]

More like ILB middle class

ILB MC > ILBRich

[HtownColt]

Would an inside linebacker in the 1st provide a better game value down by down over a 1st round WR or G? I'm not so sure based on 2012s reality. I like AB a lot, but...

~50 dropped passes

~40 sacks

~Andrew Lucks health

~Marginal running game

Teams running on us at will and attacking Angerer and Connor in coverage and Angerer and Connor in contract years, defensive minded head coach who is determined to stop the run. Wouldn't be surprised at all if we took Arthur Brown who is an every down LB but I would go WR as well.

[FalseStart]

Teams running on us at will and attacking Angerer and Connor in coverage and Angerer and Connor in contract years, defensive minded head coach who is determined to stop the run. Wouldn't be surprised at all if we took Arthur Brown who is an every down LB but I would go WR as well.

Been like that for 10-12 years during the Manning era...a healthy Manning era... 10-12 Wins on average per season.  Andrew's health benefits from WR (Harrison/Wayne) who can catch and OL that can block... We may not need another Marvin (Thank you Ty Hilton), but we will need a Reggie Wayne in a couple more years...enter Hopkins 2013? Rogers/Harper 2013? Sammy Watkins 2014? Marquise Lee 2014?  Best not go BROWN if you can go FEDERAL HOPKINS... it's late. Good night Indianapolis.

 

WR: Hopkins, Patterson, Allen, Austin

G: Cooper, Warmack,

 

If trade;

 

2nd: Warford or Hopkins...

 

3rd-4th round LBs:  Bostic, Lemonier, Porter, Washington, Collins, Thomas, B. Jenkins, J. Jenkins etc...

3rd-4th round WRs: Rogers, Harper...Swope.

3rd-4th round OL: Winters G, Jones, C/G, Schwenke C/G, Pugh G, Frederick G, etc...

[AntonMcG]

Teo is bad under stress. Let's hope we dont draft him.

 

Hope all you want, I would be happy with him. Bad under stress? What are you talking about?

 

It's amazing how short some people's memories are, before the Alabama game, this was the best player in college football and should have been the first defensive player to win the Heisman since Charles Woodson.

 

Say what you want about one game of football and one silly 40 times but if we get a player who can play the way T'eo did for the Irish this year, I will definitely be satisfied.

[esmort]

Hope all you want, I would be happy with him. Bad under stress? What are you talking about?

 

It's amazing how short some people's memories are, before the Alabama game, this was the best player in college football and should have been the first defensive player to win the Heisman since Charles Woodson.

 

Say what you want about one game of football and one silly 40 times but if we get a player who can play the way T'eo did for the Irish this year, I will definitely be satisfied.

 

I am in the "hope we do not draft Teo camp"

 

Yes, he was a great college player, but part of the reason he won the Heisman was the media hype, and the source of a significant amount of that hype was his "fictional story".  Even the Heisman committee isn't immune from media hype.

 

Also his intangibles including his leadership skills and ability to rally his team were one of the reasons he was going to be such a desirable NFL player.  I would say that he no longer posseses those intangibles, because unless he comes out and plays like a younger Lewis, Urlacher, etc..most NFL players are not going to be motivated by, much less led by the locker room joke (players have already said as much).

 

He does not bring enough to the table, especially at one of our lower priority positions to draft him ...IMO.

[atapcl]

He is a player you like and that is fine. I dont really like him and never thought he was a top ten player for this draft. He was exposed in the Alabama game. He did not handle the lies about his supposed girlfriend very well. He improved his forty only slightly on his pro day so he really is not that fast. He declined an offer to go to New York for the draft. I just dont see him being a leader.

Hope all you want, I would be happy with him. Bad under stress? What are you talking about?

 

It's amazing how short some people's memories are, before the Alabama game, this was the best player in college football and should have been the first defensive player to win the Heisman since Charles Woodson.

 

Say what you want about one game of football and one silly 40 times but if we get a player who can play the way T'eo did for the Irish this year, I will definitely be satisfied.

[Superman]

Would an inside linebacker in the 1st provide a better game value down by down over a 1st round WR or G?  I'm not so sure based on 2012s reality.  I like AB a lot, but...

 

~50 dropped passes

~40 sacks

~Andrew Lucks health

~Marginal running game

 

Those are very good points. But I think that if an ILB like Brown is higher on Grigson's draft board -- and he'd be higher if Grigson feels like he is a better player, more able to make an impact on the field, in better health, of better character, etc., all the things that go into Grigson's ratings -- than available players at other positions like receiver, offensive line, etc., then Grigson would draft the player he has higher on his board.

 

From what I gather, a) Brown won't still be there at #24, and b) he's a better fit in a 4-3 than he would be in our defense. And I don't know anything, but I would think Fluker, Banks, Hopkins, Allen, etc., will be higher rated than Brown, specific to Grigson's board.

[FalseStart]

Those are very good points. But I think that if an ILB like Brown is higher on Grigson's draft board -- and he'd be higher if Grigson feels like he is a better player, more able to make an impact on the field, in better health, of better character, etc., all the things that go into Grigson's ratings -- than available players at other positions like receiver, offensive line, etc., then Grigson would draft the player he has higher on his board.

 

From what I gather, a) Brown won't still be there at #24, and b) he's a better fit in a 4-3 than he would be in our defense. And I don't know anything, but I would think Fluker, Banks, Hopkins, Allen, etc., will be higher rated than Brown, specific to Grigson's board.

When was the last time Grigson or the Colts took a LB in the first round?  

[FalseStart]

Interesting: Grigsons' Draft history while @ Philly...FYI 

 

 

2006
1st Round: Brodrick Bunkley, DT
2nd Round: Winston Justice, OT
3rd Round: Chris Gocong, DE
4th Round: Max Jean-Gilles, OG
4th Round: Jason Avant, WR
5th Round: Jeremy Bloom, DB
5th Round: Omar Gaither, LB
6th Round: LaJuan Ramsey, DT

2007
2nd Round: Kevin Kolb, QB
2nd Round: Victor Abiamiri, DE
3rd Round: Stewart Bradley, LB
3rd Round: Tony Hunt, RB
5th Round: C.J. Gaddis, DB
5th Round: Brent Celek, TE
6th Round: Rashad Barksdale, DB
7th Round: Nate Ilaoa, RB

2008
2nd Round: Trevor Laws, DT
2nd Round: DeSean Jackson, WR
3rd Round: Bryan Smith, LB
4th Round: Mike McGlynn, OL
4th Round: Quintin Demps, DB
4th Round: Jack Ikegwuonu, DB
6th Round: Mike Gibson, OT
6th Round: Joe Mays, LB
6th Round: Andy Studebaker, LB
7th Round: King Dunlap, OT

2009 
1st Round: Jeremy Maclin, WR
2nd Round: LeSean McCoy, RB
5th Round: Cornelius Ingram, TE
5th Round: Victor Harris, DB
5th Round: Fenkui Tupou, OT
6th Round: Brandon Gibson, WR
7th Round: Paul Fanaika, OG
7th Round: Moise Fokou, LB

[Superman]

When was the last time Grigson or the Colts took a LB in the first round?  

 

I don't know that it matters. Grigson has only had one first round draft pick, and what Bill Polian did doesn't matter because he's not making the decisions anymore.

 

But to answer your question, Rob Morris was the last linebacker the Colts took in the first round.

[Superman]

Interesting: Grigsons' Draft history while @ Philly...FYI 

 

 

2006

1st Round: Brodrick Bunkley, DT

2nd Round: Winston Justice, OT

3rd Round: Chris Gocong, DE

4th Round: Max Jean-Gilles, OG

4th Round: Jason Avant, WR

5th Round: Jeremy Bloom, DB

5th Round: Omar Gaither, LB

6th Round: LaJuan Ramsey, DT

2007

2nd Round: Kevin Kolb, QB

2nd Round: Victor Abiamiri, DE

3rd Round: Stewart Bradley, LB

3rd Round: Tony Hunt, RB

5th Round: C.J. Gaddis, DB

5th Round: Brent Celek, TE

6th Round: Rashad Barksdale, DB

7th Round: Nate Ilaoa, RB

2008

2nd Round: Trevor Laws, DT

2nd Round: DeSean Jackson, WR

3rd Round: Bryan Smith, LB

4th Round: Mike McGlynn, OL

4th Round: Quintin Demps, DB

4th Round: Jack Ikegwuonu, DB

6th Round: Mike Gibson, OT

6th Round: Joe Mays, LB

6th Round: Andy Studebaker, LB

7th Round: King Dunlap, OT

2009 

1st Round: Jeremy Maclin, WR

2nd Round: LeSean McCoy, RB

5th Round: Cornelius Ingram, TE

5th Round: Victor Harris, DB

5th Round: Fenkui Tupou, OT

6th Round: Brandon Gibson, WR

7th Round: Paul Fanaika, OG

7th Round: Moise Fokou, LB

 

Those aren't Grigson's drafts.

[AntonMcG]

I am in the "hope we do not draft Teo camp"

 

Yes, he was a great college player, but part of the reason he won the Heisman was the media hype, and the source of a significant amount of that hype was his "fictional story".  Even the Heisman committee isn't immune from media hype.

 

Also his intangibles including his leadership skills and ability to rally his team were one of the reasons he was going to be such a desirable NFL player.  I would say that he no longer posseses those intangibles, because unless he comes out and plays like a younger Lewis, Urlacher, etc..most NFL players are not going to be motivated by, much less led by the locker room joke (players have already said as much).

 

He does not bring enough to the table, especially at one of our lower priority positions to draft him ...IMO.

 

 

I can certainly tolerate people who are not a fan of a player, but what I have no time for is people who base these 'opinions' on complete inaccuracy...

 

Firstly, he did not win the Heisman, he finished second to Johnny Manziel. Secondly, the catfish scandal came out long after the Heisman voting which makes your argument irrelevant.

 

He should have won the Heisman based on his football ability, he is a great football player. Nothing to do with the nonsense you talked about.

[AntonMcG]

He is a player you like and that is fine. I dont really like him and never thought he was a top ten player for this draft. He was exposed in the Alabama game. He did not handle the lies about his supposed girlfriend very well. He improved his forty only slightly on his pro day so he really is not that fast. He declined an offer to go to New York for the draft. I just dont see him being a leader.

 

He did get exposed against Alabama yes, he didn't drop down in my opinion to the proportion he did for other people it seems. It was one game and he was incredible through the rest of the season, arguably the best player in college football. No he isn't fast but he is still faster than James Laurinaitis and look how good he is. 40 times are not an indicator of success, instincts and reading the game are more important at the ILB position. Plus... 4.71 isn't bad.

 

As for the catfish thing... I just do not understand peoples reaction, it has nothing to do with football. People constantly dismiss misdemeanors like robbery, drug use and DUIs from draftees but because of the unique nature of the story and Te'os profile, it becomes a big deal. As for the decline to go to the draft, why does that matter?

[atapcl]

It is just my opinion that these things matter because he does not seem to react well to stress. I believe he does not want to attend the draft because he is afraid of the stress if he is not chosen early. I would not want someone running my defense if they colapse under pressure.

He did get exposed against Alabama yes, he didn't drop down in my opinion to the proportion he did for other people it seems. It was one game and he was incredible through the rest of the season, arguably the best player in college football. No he isn't fast but he is still faster than James Laurinaitis and look how good he is. 40 times are not an indicator of success, instincts and reading the game are more important at the ILB position. Plus... 4.71 isn't bad.

 

As for the catfish thing... I just do not understand peoples reaction, it has nothing to do with football. People constantly dismiss misdemeanors like robbery, drug use and DUIs from draftees but because of the unique nature of the story and Te'os profile, it becomes a big deal. As for the decline to go to the draft, why does that matter?

[braveheartcolt]

He did get exposed against Alabama yes, he didn't drop down in my opinion to the proportion he did for other people it seems. It was one game and he was incredible through the rest of the season, arguably the best player in college football. No he isn't fast but he is still faster than James Laurinaitis and look how good he is. 40 times are not an indicator of success, instincts and reading the game are more important at the ILB position. Plus... 4.71 isn't bad.

 

As for the catfish thing... I just do not understand peoples reaction, it has nothing to do with football. People constantly dismiss misdemeanors like robbery, drug use and DUIs from draftees but because of the unique nature of the story and Te'os profile, it becomes a big deal. As for the decline to go to the draft, why does that matter?

If he was part of that scam, I'd rather we drafted a one legged dwarf with poor eyesight, a history of epilepsy and a liking for Uggs.

 

If he was duped, I'd rather draft somebody slightly more astute.

[AntonMcG]

If he was part of that scam, I'd rather we drafted a one legged dwarf with poor eyesight, a history of epilepsy and a liking for Uggs.

 

If he was duped, I'd rather draft somebody slightly more astute.

 

I think people overplay the need for intelligence in NFL players. We are not asking them to trade on Wall Street. Some of the most talented athletes I know are pretty stupid.

[braveheartcolt]

I think people overplay the need for intelligence in NFL players. We are not asking them to trade on Wall Street. Some of the most talented athletes I know are pretty stupid.

True, but he would need to learn the playbook......

[GoColts8818]

Interesting: Grigsons' Draft history while @ Philly...FYI

2006

1st Round: Brodrick Bunkley, DT

2nd Round: Winston Justice, OT

3rd Round: Chris Gocong, DE

4th Round: Max Jean-Gilles, OG

4th Round: Jason Avant, WR

5th Round: Jeremy Bloom, DB

5th Round: Omar Gaither, LB

6th Round: LaJuan Ramsey, DT

2007

2nd Round: Kevin Kolb, QB

2nd Round: Victor Abiamiri, DE

3rd Round: Stewart Bradley, LB

3rd Round: Tony Hunt, RB

5th Round: C.J. Gaddis, DB

5th Round: Brent Celek, TE

6th Round: Rashad Barksdale, DB

7th Round: Nate Ilaoa, RB

2008

2nd Round: Trevor Laws, DT

2nd Round: DeSean Jackson, WR

3rd Round: Bryan Smith, LB

4th Round: Mike McGlynn, OL

4th Round: Quintin Demps, DB

4th Round: Jack Ikegwuonu, DB

6th Round: Mike Gibson, OT

6th Round: Joe Mays, LB

6th Round: Andy Studebaker, LB

7th Round: King Dunlap, OT

2009

1st Round: Jeremy Maclin, WR

2nd Round: LeSean McCoy, RB

5th Round: Cornelius Ingram, TE

5th Round: Victor Harris, DB

5th Round: Fenkui Tupou, OT

6th Round: Brandon Gibson, WR

7th Round: Paul Fanaika, OG

7th Round: Moise Fokou, LB

All Grigson did was build the board he didn't make the picks so those aren't truly "his" drafts.

[dgambill]

I'm not going to bother thinking about targeting certain players because its a month away and well there is so much that can change and honestly its so hard to predict where people will go but I imagine we will pick the bpa or trade back with our pick. We have needs for depth at several positions WR and RG are the biggest but we could use depth or eventually need upgrades/replacements at C, CB, OLB, ILB, and FS in my opinion. We don't necessarily need a starter at any of those positions...but if he thinks we do likely we would look at WR or OG if he thinks we need a starter. The rest would be someone that we would take as a project to groom as a replacement or provide depth to the roster/special teams. We are pretty well set at SS, all DL, LT, RT, LG, RB, TE, and QB.

[Colts_Fan12]

I don't really want a LB in the first I wanna go WR then OG I do really hope that Big Ben Ijalana can be healthy and get the other guard spot he has first rounder talent also would like to get a K sometime cause vinny is older and not as accurate he will be done soon

[AntonMcG]

True, but he would need to learn the playbook......

 

Learning a playbook might be relatively difficult, but (nearly) anyone in college is capable of studying a textbook to pass a test. How much harder would you study if you are getting paid millions of dollars and are doing something you enjoy. All they are doing is learning plays, again it isn't that difficult, just takes time.

[braveheartcolt]

Learning a playbook might be relatively difficult, but (nearly) anyone in college is capable of studying a textbook to pass a test. How much harder would you study if you are getting paid millions of dollars and are doing something you enjoy. All they are doing is learning plays, again it isn't that difficult, just takes time.

And it's not that difficult to work out if your girlfriend is real or not. That's all. Moot point, we won't be going LB in the 1st anyway. Are you a ND fan by chance?

[Deathiltis]

Been like that for 10-12 years during the Manning era...a healthy Manning era... 10-12 Wins on average per season.  Andrew's health benefits from WR (Harrison/Wayne) who can catch and OL that can block... We may not need another Marvin (Thank you Ty Hilton), but we will need a Reggie Wayne in a couple more years...enter Hopkins 2013? Rogers/Harper 2013? Sammy Watkins 2014? Marquise Lee 2014?  Best not go BROWN if you can go FEDERAL HOPKINS... it's late. Good night Indianapolis.

 

WR: Hopkins, Patterson, Allen, Austin

G: Cooper, Warmack,

 

If trade;

 

2nd: Warford or Hopkins...

 

3rd-4th round LBs:  Bostic, Lemonier, Porter, Washington, Collins, Thomas, B. Jenkins, J. Jenkins etc...

3rd-4th round WRs: Rogers, Harper...Swope.

3rd-4th round OL: Winters G, Jones, C/G, Schwenke C/G, Pugh G, Frederick G, etc...

 

If we want Hopkins we shouldn't trade down. We should hope he falls to us at 24. I feel he is the most NFL ready receiver in this draft.

[AntonMcG]

And it's not that difficult to work out if your girlfriend is real or not. That's all. Moot point, we won't be going LB in the 1st anyway. Are you a ND fan by chance?

 

Wouldn't say I'm a fan, a soft spot maybe due to being me being Irish. I just have an appreciation for good football players and I find it inconceivable that such insignificant things can see a player go from top of the pile to barely a 1st round pick. 

 

And we will be going LB first round if that LB is BPA.

[FalseStart]

If we want Hopkins we shouldn't trade down. We should hope he falls to us at 24. I feel he is the most NFL ready receiver in this draft.

Risk favors the bold...  I do agree that Hopkins > Rogers = Harper...however, is that extra 3rd (If the senario plays out where we can trade...big if) worth the risk of losing the services of a DeAndre Hopkins????

 

Love the Draft...better than Hollywood.

[GoColts8818]

I don't really want a LB in the first I wanna go WR then OG I do really hope that Big Ben Ijalana can be healthy and get the other guard spot he has first rounder talent also would like to get a K sometime cause vinny is older and not as accurate he will be done soon

If you are talking about replacing Adam fine (I don't happen to agree with replacing him this year but I can understand the logic as to why some are) however, if you are talking about taking a kicker to develop it doesn't really work that way.  The Colts aren't going to use a roster spot on a guy they are hoping to develop for the future at kicker.  They would only draft one if they think he can replace Adam this season. 

[PrincetonTiger]

not a bad draft

 

 

I really like the Rodney Smith pick

[Colts_Fan12]

If you are talking about replacing Adam fine (I don't happen to agree with replacing him this year but I can understand the logic as to why some are) however, if you are talking about taking a kicker to develop it doesn't really work that way. The Colts aren't going to use a roster spot on a guy they are hoping to develop for the future at kicker. They would only draft one if they think he can replace Adam this season.

Ik I'm wanting to get a new K I think Adam needs to retire I'm sure he won't cause Ks think they have to play till there 100

[GoColts8818]

Ik I'm wanting to get a new K I think Adam needs to retire I'm sure he won't cause Ks think they have to play till there 100

That's fine but I think Adam feels like he can still play which he can.  If you take out the two kicks that were blocked last year (which were not his fault) he ended up kicking right at his career average.  On top of that most of his struggles came early in the season when he was getting used to a new long snapper.  Frankly after the Miami game he only missed two kicks the rest of the year.  One an extremely long kick (58 yards) in the New England game and he missed in the playoff game vs. the Ravens.  Over all though Adam had a very good back half of the season going 13 of 15 on field goals on the back half of the year.  Frankly going back to the Jets game he only missed one other kick that wasn't blocked so he went 22 of 27 over his last 27 kicks and two of those misses were blocks.  So really he only missed three field goals, one of which was an extreme long shot, over the last 13 games of the year.  So I think most of his struggles came in the first four games because of one of two things.  1.  He was getting used to a new long snapper.  2.  Adam had a slump which he has been prone to during his career.  It's why he hasn't gone to more Pro-Bowls.  He's not known for being perfect he's known for being clutch. 

 

Adam MIGHT be a June 1st cut but frankly the way his cap number works I think if the Colts released him they would end up breaking about even by the time they ate his cap hit and the cost of a new kicker.  If they did save money would be very small and Adam is in the last year of his deal.  So there isn't really a reason to make a move at kicker unless they are just sure Adam is completely done, which the last three quarters of last year do not support, or they feel like they have a chance to get a younger kicker that is going to be better than Adam over the long haul and they can't wait a year to get their hands on them.  Odds are though rather they get a kicker this year or next year it's probably going to be the same level of kicker. 

[Colts_Fan12]

That's fine but I think Adam feels like he can still play which he can. If you take out the two kicks that were blocked last year (which were not his fault) he ended up kicking right at his career average. On top of that most of his struggles came early in the season when he was getting used to a new long snapper. Frankly after the Miami game he only missed two kicks the rest of the year. One an extremely long kick (58 yards) in the New England game and he missed in the playoff game vs. the Ravens. Over all though Adam had a very good back half of the season going 13 of 15 on field goals on the back half of the year. Frankly going back to the Jets game he only missed one other kick that wasn't blocked so he went 22 of 27 over his last 27 kicks and two of those misses were blocks. So really he only missed three field goals, one of which was an extreme long shot, over the last 13 games of the year. So I think most of his struggles came in the first four games because of one of two things. 1. He was getting used to a new long snapper. 2. Adam had a slump which he has been prone to during his career. It's why he hasn't gone to more Pro-Bowls. He's not known for being perfect he's known for being clutch.

Adam MIGHT be a June 1st cut but frankly the way his cap number works I think if the Colts released him they would end up breaking about even by the time they ate his cap hit and the cost of a new kicker. If they did save money would be very small and Adam is in the last year of his deal. So there isn't really a reason to make a move at kicker unless they are just sure Adam is completely done, which the last three quarters of last year do not support, or they feel like they have a chance to get a younger kicker that is going to be better than Adam over the long haul and they can't wait a year to get their hands on them. Odds are though rather they get a kicker this year or next year it's probably going to be the same level of kicker.

He has just missed some really easy kicks that's not good i don't think plus he is 40 already

[GoColts8818]

He has just missed some really easy kicks that's not good i don't think plus he is 40 already

40 for a NFL kicker is not the same for any other position in the NFL.  Also he missed most of those "easy" kicks early in the year which I think we can look back at now and say maybe the new long snapper had something to do with that or it was just Adam's normal season slump which he has just about every year.  Like I said before that's why he hasn't gone to more Pro-Bowls over the course of his career.  Adam didn't have nearly as bad of a season as some try to make it sound like he did last year. 

[Superman]

40 for a NFL kicker is not the same for any other position in the NFL.  Also he missed most of those "easy" kicks early in the year which I think we can look back at now and say maybe the new long snapper had something to do with that or it was just Adam's normal season slump which he has just about every year.  Like I said before that's why he hasn't gone to more Pro-Bowls over the course of his career.  Adam didn't have nearly as bad of a season as some try to make it sound like he did last year. 

 

The only reason to make a move at kicker is if you think someone else is going to be better. Like you said, AV isn't perfect, and is prone to a slump here and there, but he finished strong last season. I think he's fine. But regardless, a move at kicker is NOT going to be about money. Saving money will be a nice by-product of changing kickers, not the primary reason for doing so.

[GoColts8818]

The only reason to make a move at kicker is if you think someone else is going to be better. Like you said, AV isn't perfect, and is prone to a slump here and there, but he finished strong last season. I think he's fine. But regardless, a move at kicker is NOT going to be about money. Saving money will be a nice by-product of changing kickers, not the primary reason for doing so.

I think we agree here for the most part.  The only reason I brought up the money thing before with AV is because I've seen people complain that Adam makes too much money and could be a cap causality in the past.  Based on that I was kinda heading that argument off at the pass by saying even if they cut him they aren't going to save enough money to make it worth their while.  I honestly don't expect money to play a role in this there are plenty of other ways Grigson can make money if he needs too before he would have to cut Adam. 

 

Frankly like both of us have said the only reason they would cut Adam is if they think a kicker they get is better than Adam or if they think they have some can't miss kid that isn't going to be there next year when in all likely hood they will be looking for a kicker.  Frankly I like I said before the odds of them getting a much better kicker right now than they would be able to get next year is probably not that high.  Unless Adam just loses it (which can happen with kickers but I don't expect it to happen with Adam) I don't really see the Colts looking into replacing him right now. 

 

The main point I wanted to bring up was that Adam didn't have as bad of a season as some try to make him out to having last year.  Frankly after the first four games he had a pretty good season when you account for the two blocks which weren't his fault.  I think you can honestly look at those struggles early in the year and go well Adam normally has a rough spot during the year at some point anyways and he had a new long snapper and realize it wasn't that big of a deal.  All and all I think we pretty much agree here. 

[esmort]

I can certainly tolerate people who are not a fan of a player, but what I have no time for is people who base these 'opinions' on complete inaccuracy...

Firstly, he did not win the Heisman, he finished second to Johnny Manziel. Secondly, the catfish scandal came out long after the Heisman voting which makes your argument irrelevant.

He should have won the Heisman based on his football ability, he is a great football player. Nothing to do with the nonsense you talked about.

I defnitely had a brain freeze(fever is probably more accurate) on the Heisman comment ... I knew he came in second don't know what I was thinking when I was writing. I will chalk it up to forum posting while sick in bed (which is why I am late responding to your comment as well).

But it still does not change the basis of argument for not wanting Teo....

1) The media hype I was referring to that made Teo a "media darling" and boosted him in the eyes of the Heisman voters was the story about how he had found out his "fake girlfriend" had died of cancer just hours after his Grandmother had died. This was the the precursor to the "catfish scandal", but happened much earlier.

2) The reason some people (including myself) care about the catfish scandal when it comes to drafting Teo is because it says 1 of 2 things about him either 1) He is so stupid he was duped into falling for something that ranks as almost as *ic as the "Nigerian Prince Scam" .... or .... 2) He is a scam artist who purposely invented the story for his own gain. So either way he is a player I do not want on the Colts. And yes I think minor drug arrests and DUIs are easier to overlook as mistakes, where as being a scam artist speaks to his core nature.

3) Part of his appeal was his intangibles such as leadership, ralllying the defense, etc .... He no longer has the value of those intangibles which makes him an even less desirable draft pick.

4) Even without all of his other problems he chokes under pressure and has admitted as much on more than one occasion. I want a player that thrives under pressure; not crumbles under it.

Hopefully I have cleared up some of the "inaccurate nonsense" you found troubling in my last post. If you like Teo, more power to you. I just hope we are not the team that drafts him.

[lollygagger8]

One of the all-time guitar greats in my opinion!

 

YES!! Dimebag Ruled!!!

 

Like Southwest, metal is my second language

[FightLikeSin]

One of the all-time guitar greats in my opinion!

Amazing guitarist, but his tone was so terrible. I've never understood how that worked...but he pulled it off.

[AntonMcG]

I defnitely had a brain freeze(fever is probably more accurate) on the Heisman comment ... I knew he came in second don't know what I was thinking when I was writing. I will chalk it up to forum posting while sick in bed (which is why I am late responding to your comment as well).

But it still does not change the basis of argument for not wanting Teo....

1) The media hype I was referring to that made Teo a "media darling" and boosted him in the eyes of the Heisman voters was the story about how he had found out his "fake girlfriend" had died of cancer just hours after his Grandmother had died. This was the the precursor to the "catfish scandal", but happened much earlier.

2) The reason some people (including myself) care about the catfish scandal when it comes to drafting Teo is because it says 1 of 2 things about him either 1) He is so stupid he was duped into falling for something that ranks as almost as *ic as the "Nigerian Prince Scam" .... or .... 2) He is a scam artist who purposely invented the story for his own gain. So either way he is a player I do not want on the Colts. And yes I think minor drug arrests and DUIs are easier to overlook as mistakes, where as being a scam artist speaks to his core nature.

3) Part of his appeal was his intangibles such as leadership, ralllying the defense, etc .... He no longer has the value of those intangibles which makes him an even less desirable draft pick.

4) Even without all of his other problems he chokes under pressure and has admitted as much on more than one occasion. I want a player that thrives under pressure; not crumbles under it.

Hopefully I have cleared up some of the "inaccurate nonsense" you found troubling in my last post. If you like Teo, more power to you. I just hope we are not the team that drafts him.

 

My God... how are those intangibles related to this? Did those intangibles suddenly disappear from Ray Lewis after the murder trial? Or is that different as well....

 

People talk about NFL players like they have to be genius'... they don't... they have to play football well... Te'o was the best defensive player in football last year. Stop looking into him as a person because you do not have to be smart or a great person to be a good football player, there are countless examples of this that I will not insult you to list.

 

If you have a problem with drafting him, let it be his football ability, not that other stuff.

[esmort]

My God... how are those intangibles related to this? Did those intangibles suddenly disappear from Ray Lewis after the murder trial? Or is that different as well....

 

People talk about NFL players like they have to be genius'... they don't... they have to play football well... Te'o was the best defensive player in football last year. Stop looking into him as a person because you do not have to be smart or a great person to be a good football player, there are countless examples of this that I will not insult you to list.

 

If you have a problem with drafting him, let it be his football ability, not that other stuff.

 

The intangibles didn't spontaneously disappear per se .... but most players are not going to look to him as a leader or rally behind him, because he is going to be the joke of the locker room/whipping boy.  One player already came out and bluntly said thats how he would be treated in the locker room, and I am sure he not in the minority (just the only one stupid enough to come out and admit it).  So for all intensive purposes those intangibles no longer exist .... unless he comes out and is DROY and than maybe he would earn some back; but I don't see that happening.

 

No you don't HAVE to be smart to be a good football player ... but it sure helps at certain positions.  MLB is a place I would want a smart player, but maybe that's just me.

 

As far as the other crimes go ... many crimes (even a murder accusation) is not going to diminish your credibility among fellow teamates as much as Teo's because his situation makes him appear "unmanly" and pathetic.  I am not saying this is right or wrong... but perception & "manliness" matter when it comes to being a leader in sports ... if it didn't you would have seen more than a few football players come out as gay by now.

 

Even though all these other things will have an effect on his on the field "football ability" ....  I also have a problem with his actual football ability as well ... I think it was over-hyped and he showed that his ability suffered under pressure on more than one occasion.  Let someone else draft him; I don't see us looking back and regretting not picking him in the future.

[Gavin]

The intangibles didn't spontaneously disappear per se .... but most players are not going to look to him as a leader or rally behind him, because he is going to be the joke of the locker room/whipping boy.  One player already came out and bluntly said thats how he would be treated in the locker room, and I am sure he not in the minority (just the only one stupid enough to come out and admit it).  So for all intensive purposes those intangibles no longer exist .... unless he comes out and is DROY and than maybe he would earn some back; but I don't see that happening.

 

No you don't HAVE to be smart to be a good football player ... but it sure helps at certain positions.  MLB is a place I would want a smart player, but maybe that's just me.

 

As far as the other crimes go ... many crimes (even a murder accusation) is not going to diminish your credibility among fellow teamates as much as Teo's because his situation makes him appear "unmanly" and pathetic.  I am not saying this is right or wrong... but perception & "manliness" matter when it comes to being a leader in sports ... if it didn't you would have seen more than a few football players come out as gay by now.

 

Even though all these other things will have an effect on his on the field "football ability" ....  I also have a problem with his actual football ability as well ... I think it was over-hyped and he showed that his ability suffered under pressure on more than one occasion.  Let someone else draft him; I don't see us looking back and regretting not picking him in the future.

Several things......I agree thats how some will treat him but what kind of teammates are those really? Also just because a few . dont know the whole story and rather rip him repeatedly about something they know very little about doesn't mean he no longer has the intangibles to be a leader. As to whether he is gay or not, he denied it and who cares even if he is......again with the teammates thing, if they cant handle him being in the locker room because he may or may not be gay then maybe they should not even leave there house because gay people exist(Im not one) and its the 21st century they need to get over it, Stereotyping a player because he is or is not gay is just as bad perceiving them as unmanly, I dont see it being a big issue if he is gay but just because some saw an opening to put there name out there in a big way that does not make what they say to be true especially with no facts strong enough to support it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manti_Te%27o

 

The above link was about the supposed hoax which apparently duped more then Teo and was intricately planned