Pats@miami

[IcEWoLF]

I'm completely chill, bro... I'm not crying over anything, and I'm not angry about the Colts, I'm angry that the media is overblowing this. If it weren't for that pass, it wouldn't be as crazy. I never said a QB doesn't make a difference, I'm just saying it helps to have a guy that got 75 YAC yards, on a play where he should have been covered and tackled. You take the chill pill, because at the end of the day PM is the better QB, and u arrogant PAts know it too. Your turn Rosie...

At the end of the day.

3 SB rings > 1 SB ring.

Brady was the reason we won today.

Our D played decent, nothing really to write about.

Our O-Line was great too.

Polian doesn't know how to draft. Reason the colts are doing bad. They need to upgrade the whole team. It's time for the Colts to go through the rebuilding process or PM is not going to win another SB.

BB knows how to draft.

He has been stocking up on draft picks for the last 3-4 years now.

I am not here to bash PM or the Colts, just pointing out the fact that Brady was a huge part of our success, and without him we may not have won this game.

He was putting the ball on the right places for his receives to make the right plays all night long. Just like PM does with the Colts receivers.

Having your Offense stay on the field for a long time helps your defense a ton and takes a huge pressure off them.

As I said, the colts need to rebuild and they need to get a worthy 2nd or 3rd round QB next year.

Obviously the colts have 0 faith in Painter after all these years..they should have cut the guy and should have gotten Marc Bulger...I am sure he would come out of retirement to play for the Colts.

[Blue Horseshoe]

At the end of the day.

Polian doesn't know how to draft. Reason the colts are doing bad. They need to upgrade the whole team. It's time for the Colts to go through the rebuilding process or PM is not going to win another SB.

BB knows how to draft.

He has been stocking up on draft picks for the last 3-4 years now.

I am not here to bash PM or the Colts, just pointing out the fact that Brady was a huge part of our success, and without him we may not have won this game.

He was putting the ball on the right places for his receives to make the right plays all night long. Just like PM does with the Colts receivers.

Having your Offense stay on the field for a long time helps your defense a ton and takes a huge pressure off them.

As I said, the colts need to rebuild and they need to get a worthy 2nd or 3rd round QB next year.

Obviously the colts have 0 faith in Painter after all these years..they should have cut the guy and should have gotten Marc Bulger...I am sure he would come out of retirement to play for the Colts.

I couldn't agree more. I honestly saw it in 2008 when Brady went down and the Patriots won 11 games. They are built solidly across the board and they can absorb a catastrophic loss like Brady. The Colts are a hollow shell built completely around one man. The can absorb losses to anyone else on the team and remain successful but if you take him out the whole shell implodes.

Actually, it has gotten to the point that comparing the way the Colts are run to the way the Patriots are run is so ridiculously one sided as to not be worth the time. The Patriots work the free agent market for hidden gems like Moss. They know when to trade even some of their most valuable players like Seymour to stockpile picks and manage the salary cap. They keep building depth by trading down in the draft. They will remain dominant long after Brady has retired.

In my opinion Belichick is probably the greatest coach ever. The only ones I would put in the same ball park are Halas and Brown. Four 14 win seasons with more of them to come.

[jcdavey]

I couldn't agree more. I honestly saw it in 2008 when Brady went down and the Patriots won 11 games. They are built solidly across the board and they can absorb a catastrophic loss like Brady. The Colts are a hollow shell built completely around one man. The can absorb losses to anyone else on the team and remain successful but if you take him out the whole shell implodes.

Actually, it has gotten to the point that comparing the way the Colts are run to the way the Patriots are run is so ridiculously one sided as to not be worth the time. The Patriots work the free agent market for hidden gems like Moss. They know when to trade even some of their most valuable players like Seymour to stockpile picks and manage the salary cap. They keep building depth by trading down in the draft. They will remain dominant long after Brady has retired.

In my opinion Belichick is probably the greatest coach ever. The only ones I would put in the same ball park are Halas and Brown. Four 14 win seasons with more of them to come.

lol it's funny how people still think moss was a FA pickup

the pats made a trade with Oakland for him

that's what the pats do really well, aside from stockpiling picks, they make smart trades

welker, moss, who else? dillon?

i mean , they're just dayum smart.

although i'd have to say trading seymour wasn't really a coup. seymour still looks pretty dayum good.

the pats rarely make mistakes in dealing with players, and when they do it usually doesn't hamstring their salary cap

[ruksak]

Y'all be jelly like Smuckers.

The Pats fans have a great season to look forward to. Us Colts fans are going to be content if our team doesn't burst into flames.

Who cares how he did it or whom helped him, Brady rocked 517 and thats frickin impressive.

[ViriLudant]

I had to laugh out loud at those who said that the Miami defense was worse than the Patriots'.

Sorry, the Patriots' defense last night was not that solid as well, and gave up a TON of passing yardage.

You guys DO realize (although probably not since Miami's not in your division) that Miami had a top 5 defense last year, yes?

That defense is pretty outstanding, and Brady and the offense shredded it last night. I expect Miami's defense to take some pretty large steps from last night, but it was the pace that the Patriots dictated that wore out that Miami defense.

[JimJaime]

Ok enough Brady v Manning garbage.. they are both HOFers PERIOD and both the colts and Pats lucky have them as their respective QB's. Colts fans the Pats went through the same thing in 2008 so we feel your pain and worry. Who knows Collins could still lead you guys to a 10-6 record

As for last nights game I have a couple thoughts. (from a FANS perspective)

1. Brady looked scary sharp and sliced and diced the Phins D.

2. The Pats D seem be takin by surprise the phins were throwing all nite. (big change since they were a wildcat and running team the last 2 yrs.)

[12>18]

Patriots defense did not play up to their potential. And anyone talking about yards and how Welker made Brady look better or his stats look better obviously didn't see the three dropped passes over 40 yards that hit receivers' hands...Welker didn't need to catch that for Brady to be over 500, just someone had to catch one of those.

Fins looked sharp. Very sharp, actually. If they find a way to actually run the ball with that passing attack and can set up some decent play action they may win a few games this year.

[Andy]

At the end of the day.

3 SB rings > 1 SB ring.

Brady was the reason we won today.

Our D played decent, nothing really to write about.

Our O-Line was great too.

Polian doesn't know how to draft. Reason the colts are doing bad. They need to upgrade the whole team. It's time for the Colts to go through the rebuilding process or PM is not going to win another SB.

BB knows how to draft.

He has been stocking up on draft picks for the last 3-4 years now.

I am not here to bash PM or the Colts, just pointing out the fact that Brady was a huge part of our success, and without him we may not have won this game.

He was putting the ball on the right places for his receives to make the right plays all night long. Just like PM does with the Colts receivers.

Having your Offense stay on the field for a long time helps your defense a ton and takes a huge pressure off them.

As I said, the colts need to rebuild and they need to get a worthy 2nd or 3rd round QB next year.

Obviously the colts have 0 faith in Painter after all these years..they should have cut the guy and should have gotten Marc Bulger...I am sure he would come out of retirement to play for the Colts.

Sure, but then I can say that every major passing category has to count for something... yards, TDs, completions, passer rating...

Now about last night's game, Brady was the reason you guys won, true, but the media is sorta overblowing this. You Pats fans are the one's that say passing yards don't mean crap, so what makes tonight any different. Your defense put constant pressure on Henne, but they didn't play to their fullest potential. O-line was stellar, and perfect.

Somewhat agree and disagree. I don't like him on the early round picks, but love him when it gets past the 2nd and 3rd round. With all the bashing being said... not a good defense, bad GM, bad coach, PM still manages to take his team to the playoffs year in and year out. The rebuilding needs to start now, but you'd be surprise, we have potential, Powers, our LB core, Lefeged, Nevis...

Marc Bulger is not better than Collins, but they should have gotten Collins earlier.

[JimJaime]

lol Pats draft well??? Ok there is a fan who didnt pay attention to Merriweather being cut because after that there are ZERO thats right ZERO draft picks on this team from the 2008 draft. Now we do have a few UDFA from that yr (wish we had gotten acertain BC LB this yr in UDFA he be a beasst for the pats I bet)

Last Night the O was simply lights out as was Brady. Brady has downplayed how well he did spreading the flattery to his line and WR and TE. One thing about Brady ad Manning they are both very humble (thank god one was an ego maniac be easy hate them lol)

[dynasty13]

Sure, but then I can say that every major passing category has to count for something... yards, TDs, completions, passer rating...

Now about last night's game, Brady was the reason you guys won, true, but the media is sorta overblowing this. You Pats fans are the one's that say passing yards don't mean crap, so what makes tonight any different. Your defense put constant pressure on Henne, but they didn't play to their fullest potential. O-line was stellar, and perfect.

Somewhat agree and disagree. I don't like him on the early round picks, but love him when it gets past the 2nd and 3rd round. With all the bashing being said... not a good defense, bad GM, bad coach, PM still manages to take his team to the playoffs year in and year out. The rebuilding needs to start now, but you'd be surprise, we have potential, Powers, our LB core, Lefeged, Nevis...

Marc Bulger is not better than Collins, but they should have gotten Collins earlier.

Really guys? A Brady/Manning debate...now?

Look, Peyton isnt even playing...theres no reason to make comparisons right now, and theres no reason to undermine what Brady did do last night. You can say the media is overblowing it...but the fact is, it WAS a MNF record and it WAS impressive. You cant just say 'take away that one play and lets see what he got'...because, well...he made that play, you cant just take it away in attempt to make a point. And lets be honest, had Peyton thrown for 500 yards on MNF, you guys would have all woken up wet...and we'd be hearing Gruden go on and on about the Sheriff and how noone else can do that and thats what makes him Peyton Manning, and many posters here would be using it as evidence as to why Peyton is the best quarterback ever. So dont act all surprised that the media has the audacity to talk about it like it was a big deal, because the offense was lights out last night and Brady looked good.

The Dolphins looked good, the Patriots looked better. It was a tough divisional matchup and its just one game. I dont think the media is make a bigger deal of it than it was...because quite frankly, they always make a big deal over what happens on Monday Night Football...so Im not really sure what some of you are surprised about.

[-JJ-]

The Dolphins looked good, the Patriots looked better. It was a tough divisional matchup and its just one game.

I agree with that. I think the NE defense did play well. Can you say pass rush..something that has been missing for a long time. I credit Miami's offense and Henne played well. But NE defense did force punts and that was key...including key sacks. And McCourty..well..ask Brandon Marshal..who still made plays in tight coverage.

The biggest story...Miami gassed in the heat in their own house. Ouch!

[Yehoodi]

Wow, it's crazy to think that if the dumb CB made that tackle against Welker. Brady would have would 450 yards, and the game would have been closer. Brady had a great game, but I've read some stupid reports claiming that this game proves that the 514 yards he threw were all because of him. He had 70 yards because of Welker and 46 yards to Slater, and Hernandez. It was a great game, but chill. Don't get me started about PM's great games...

Andy, I agree with you in regards to QBs getting all of the praise about the traditional "QB" stats (as opposed to those "team" stats some like to talk about) and how the media can run with perhaps in the wrong direction . . . i think BB said it best in the press conference when asked about TB's game and how good "he" was, and BB stated (i'm paraphrasing), "well is all a team effort, the line has to pick up the defense, needs to block, the RB need to pick up the defense, the WRs have to run the routes, the QB has to throw the ball and the WR has to catch the ball." basically saying that the teams passing yards is as much a team accomplishment as a personal one to the QBs, perhaps more of a team one . . . but this applies to all QBs not just one east of the Hudson River . . .

I think TB had a great game, hitting all of his WR in the hands and threading the needle . . .and i think what gets sadly lost in the suffle is that Chad Henne had a great game too . . .

and yes the YACs of the WR go on the QBs stats . . . but somtimes the YACs are a result of the QB hitting the WR in stride like TB did with Welker . . .

[Yehoodi]

unbelievable game for brady! miami defense was not prepared for this game, i guess it is a passing league, can't imagine what peyton's numbers would've been....

Manning would have put up great #s against the Texans per usual . . .

getting to the pats game, boths teams Os were on fire and were moving the ball, it was just one of those games were there were many possessions, tired Ds, and few punts, so naturally will have great yardage numbers . . .

[Yehoodi]

This is going to sound weird, but did anyone feel that Henne had a better game than Brady? He was going up against a much better defense, his offensive line played horrible, and his defense couldn't do much of anything but he kept his composure. If you take away the YAC from Welker's 100 yard catch they both had about 415 yards, and Henne led the Dolphins in rushing yards! I feel like he had the better game for some reason. Hmm.

yes Henne played a great game and sadly it may be forgotten about, but I would still give the edge to TB, altho he had good protection, he did hit most of his WRs in the hands, and when he was pressured he moved out of and in the pocket to give himself time to throw, so i would have to give the edge to TB . . .

[chad72]

The Dolphins were playing a 4-3 front mostly, the first time they had done that in over 10 years. Though they were a top 5 defense last year and were returning 10 starters, you could see that they were reacting most of the time and were not comfortable with their own scheme and plays, not just with the no huddle, but also with their own calls to know exactly what they were supposed to do. The Dolphins' D is going to be a terrible D by the end of the year, except maybe vs the run, something like the Texans were last year vs the pass.

The Pats' D got bailed out due to bad red zone execution by the Dolphins. Otherwise, a good QB would have put up 30 points on the Pats' D, IMO, someone like a Brees or Rodgers.

[GoPats]

You're overgeneralizing about Colts fans. Belichek has proven himself as a great coach(Brady has proven himself as a great QB too), even before he came to NE he had a ring with another organization. I don't hate Brady, I don't even know him. But I dislike him, only because he is a rival to my team, not to mention how people try to belittle Manning's career by rubbing 3 Super Bowl wins in the face of his fans. As if it's the official or objective way to rate an individual player.

Manning has 7,210 attempts, while Brady has 4,758 attempts.

Manning has 54,828yds and 399 TD's, while Brady has 35,261yds and 265TD's.

Manning has 198INT's, and Brady has 104INT's.

There are a few things to understand here. First off, Brady is NEVER required to throw as much as Manning. And Manning still has the biggest TD-INT differential(201TD's).

Manning has played from day one, while Brady walked into a organization that has proven to be successful for QB's. You don't know how Brady would've played if he had to start with a dead franchise. Cassel(and don't tell me Cassel can carry a bad team, the Chiefs were a good team last year) and Bledsoe for examples are QB's that had success with the Pats. I'm not taking away from Brady, I'm just saying, talking about stats between Manning and Brady is a losing battle for Brady. Manning is a statistical juggernaut You talk about yards, but Manning has 11 4,000 yard passing seasons to Brady's 3. Manning has 6 30+ TD seasons to Brady's 2. He also shows far more efficiency and good decision making than Favre. You are spewing nonsense. If Manning is Brett Favre, then Tom Brady is Terry Bradshaw minus the steroids(4 rings, but horrible numbers, but it doesn't matter when you have the Steel Curtain as your D).

Brady isn't even on pace to shatter any of Manning's major records. Manning could come back next year, throw less, and still maintain most of his records. Manning also has a much better QB rating than Favre.

I'm not trying to pick on you or be a jerk or anything, but this post is full of inaccuracies. If you accuse anyone of "spewing nonsense," you subject yourself to the same critical response.

One at a time here...

Belichek has proven himself as a great coach(Brady has proven himself as a great QB too), even before he came to NE he had a ring with another organization.

Belichick earned two rings as the DC of the Giants in the 80s. Not one.

First off, Brady is NEVER required to throw as much as Manning.

Tom Brady career stats: 32.6 attempts/game

Peyton Manning career stats: 34.7 attempts/game

Not exactly a huge discrepancy there.

Manning still has the biggest TD-INT differential

No one looks at those things as gross number. Manning has played three seasons longer than Brady to this point, when you include Brady's 2008 campaign (injured in the first quarter and on IR).

The better indicator is the ratio of TDs to INTs, and Brady's better in that department. Check the link. Brady is nearly 2.5 TDs for every INT, Manning is just over 2 TDs for every INT.

TD-to-INT ratio of QBs in the SB Era

Manning has played from day one, while Brady walked into a organization that has proven to be successful for QB's.

Where on earth are you getting this? Because he took over for Drew Bledsoe?

The Patriots were 5-11 the season before Brady became the starter, and 0-2 when Mo Lewis hit Bledsoe so hard that he actually bled... so... . See what I did there?

Besides, Manning stepped in as a rookie in 1998, replacing Jim Harbaugh, right? So...

Drew Bledsoe career rating = 77.1

Jim Harbaugh career rating = 77.6

Prior to Belichick taking over, the Patriots played in the 1996-1997 season Super Bowl.

The Colts were one dropped Hail Mary away from representing the AFC in the 1995-1996 Super Bowl. (I remember it well because I was rooting for them.)

Here's the only part anyone needs to read:

If the Patriots continue to try to play and win games the way they won last night, they will fail. They may have a great regular season, and maybe Brady picks up another MVP, but they will quite possibly not even win a single playoff game. If I've learned anything from watching the Colts and Patriots over the years, it's that you simply cannot expect to win postseason games when you rely so heavily on one player, and on one aspect of your offense. The Patriots will need to run the ball better (and I mean out of actual running sets, and not these Woodhead draws) and play better defense to go anywhere in the tournament.

When Brady had his best personal seasons (2007 and 2010), the Patriots came up short. When Manning had his monster 2004 season, the Colts were decimated, 24-3, by the Patriots in the playoffs.

I do always sense uneasiness on the part of Indy fans when Brady does well and is praised by the media. It's like some of you immediately get defensive and do your best to discredit him. And if Manning isn't playing his best, the opposite happens and blame goes everywhere else. I suppose that's only natural, but when Brady stinks, I don't mince words about it.

Bottom line is that we're witnessing history as NFL fans. We're watching two of the all-time greats in their prime. I wish Manning was not out this year because we're all cheated that way, and we already missed out on 2008. So I hope he comes back at 100% and that we can enjoy a couple more years of this rivalry. Both guys are bound for Canton as soon as they're eligible.

[Coltsman1788]

Really guys? A Brady/Manning debate...now?

Look, Peyton isnt even playing...theres no reason to make comparisons right now, and theres no reason to undermine what Brady did do last night. You can say the media is overblowing it...but the fact is, it WAS a MNF record and it WAS impressive. You cant just say 'take away that one play and lets see what he got'...because, well...he made that play, you cant just take it away in attempt to make a point. And lets be honest, had Peyton thrown for 500 yards on MNF, you guys would have all woken up wet...and we'd be hearing Gruden go on and on about the Sheriff and how noone else can do that and thats what makes him Peyton Manning, and many posters here would be using it as evidence as to why Peyton is the best quarterback ever. So dont act all surprised that the media has the audacity to talk about it like it was a big deal, because the offense was lights out last night and Brady looked good.The Dolphins looked good, the Patriots looked better. It was a tough divisional matchup and its just one game. I dont think the media is make a bigger deal of it than it was...because quite frankly, they always make a big deal over what happens on Monday Night Football...so Im not really sure what some of you are surprised about.

Dynasty, I really don't understand why some of us Colts fans feel the need to act like that. We have a great quarterback and Brady is a great quarterback. Who is better really doesn't matter. At the end of the day, they will both be in the Hall of Fame and neither one of them would have been as great as they are if they did not have the other to measure against. 517 yards in a game is very impressive. You are correct...if Peyton did it we would all be in ectasy about it. Kudos to your QB for getting his game on last night.

[Coltsman1788]

I'm not trying to pick on you or be a jerk or anything, but this post is full of inaccuracies. If you accuse anyone of "spewing nonsense," you subject yourself to the same critical response.

One at a time here...

Belichek has proven himself as a great coach(Brady has proven himself as a great QB too), even before he came to NE he had a ring with another organization.

Belichick earned two rings as the DC of the Giants in the 80s. Not one.

First off, Brady is NEVER required to throw as much as Manning.

Tom Brady career stats: 32.6 attempts/game

Peyton Manning career stats: 34.7 attempts/game

Not exactly a huge discrepancy there.

Manning still has the biggest TD-INT differential

No one looks at those things as gross number. Manning has played three seasons longer than Brady to this point, when you include Brady's 2008 campaign (injured in the first quarter and on IR).

The better indicator is the ratio of TDs to INTs, and Brady's better in that department. Check the link. Brady is nearly 2.5 TDs for every INT, Manning is just over 2 TDs for every INT.

TD-to-INT ratio of QBs in the SB Era

Manning has played from day one, while Brady walked into a organization that has proven to be successful for QB's.

Where on earth are you getting this? Because he took over for Drew Bledsoe?

The Patriots were 5-11 the season before Brady became the starter, and 0-2 when Mo Lewis hit Bledsoe so hard that he actually bled... so... . See what I did there?

Besides, Manning stepped in as a rookie in 1998, replacing Jim Harbaugh, right? So...

Drew Bledsoe career rating = 77.1

Jim Harbaugh career rating = 77.6

Prior to Belichick taking over, the Patriots played in the 1996-1997 season Super Bowl.

The Colts were one dropped Hail Mary away from representing the AFC in the 1995-1996 Super Bowl. (I remember it well because I was rooting for them.)

Here's the only part anyone needs to read:

If the Patriots continue to try to play and win games the way they won last night, they will fail. They may have a great regular season, and maybe Brady picks up another MVP, but they will quite possibly not even win a single playoff game. If I've learned anything from watching the Colts and Patriots over the years, it's that you simply cannot expect to win postseason games when you rely so heavily on one player, and on one aspect of your offense. The Patriots will need to run the ball better (and I mean out of actual running sets, and not these Woodhead draws) and play better defense to go anywhere in the tournament.

When Brady had his best personal seasons (2007 and 2010), the Patriots came up short. When Manning had his monster 2004 season, the Colts were decimated, 24-3, by the Patriots in the playoffs.

I do always sense uneasiness on the part of Indy fans when Brady does well and is praised by the media. It's like some of you immediately get defensive and do your best to discredit him. And if Manning isn't playing his best, the opposite happens and blame goes everywhere else. I suppose that's only natural, but when Brady stinks, I don't mince words about it.

Bottom line is that we're witnessing history as NFL fans. We're watching two of the all-time greats in their prime. I wish Manning was not out this year because we're all cheated that way, and we already missed out on 2008. So I hope he comes back at 100% and that we can enjoy a couple more years of this rivalry. Both guys are bound for Canton as soon as they're eligible.

Sadly, I think that some Colts fans are subconsciously insecure about our guy. The playoff knock, pick sixes, etc. They must be to continually feel the need to make excuses and undermine the play of others to convince themselves that 18 is the greatest of all time. Personally, it doesn't matter to me if Manning is better than Brady or if he goes down as the greatest of all time. All I know is Peyton is one of the greats and he has brought a lot of joy to this Colts fan after witnessing so many frustrating seasons. So Peyton's place is secure with me regardless, and as a result I feel no need to disparage the success of others cause I already feel good about the QB I am riding with.

[GoPats]

Sadly, I think that some Colts fans are subconsciously insecure about our guy. The playoff knock, pick sixes, etc. They must be to continually feel the need to make excuses and undermine the play of others to convince themselves that 18 is the greatest of all time. Personally, it doesn't matter to me if Manning is better than Brady or if he goes down as the greatest of all time. All I know is Peyton is one of the greats and he has brought a lot of joy to this Colts fan after witnessing so many frustrating seasons. So Peyton's place is secure with me regardless, and as a result I feel no need to disparage the success of others cause I already feel good about the QB I am riding with.

Amen to that. Nice to see someone taking that approach, and I have to say I'm right there with you.

Every time I see one of these marginal NFL quarterbacks making bone-headed plays that lose the game for their team (cough-cough, Tony Romo, cough-cough) I appreciate our quarterbacks that much more.

[dynasty13]

Sadly, I think that some Colts fans are subconsciously insecure about our guy. The playoff knock, pick sixes, etc. They must be to continually feel the need to make excuses and undermine the play of others to convince themselves that 18 is the greatest of all time. Personally, it doesn't matter to me if Manning is better than Brady or if he goes down as the greatest of all time. All I know is Peyton is one of the greats and he has brought a lot of joy to this Colts fan after witnessing so many frustrating seasons. So Peyton's place is secure with me regardless, and as a result I feel no need to disparage the success of others cause I already feel good about the QB I am riding with.

Well said. And as GoPats mentioned, there does seem to be some collective need among Colts fans to react whenever Brady gets some praise...as if there somehow isnt enough to go around and its somehow being 'taken away from' Peyton...and I dont quite understand the belief that undermining one guys accomplishments somehow elevates another guys'. The regular Pats fans here (myself, GoPats, JJ...) have always been objective about 'the debate'...and we have no problem giving Peyton credit when he does some amazing things. We're well aware of what he brings to the Colts, we're well aware of his place in history...I just dont understand why a vast majority of Colts fans here gets automatically so defensive when a member of the media has the audacity to pass some praise onto someone who isnt Peyton Manning.

The rivalry between the Patriots and Colts isnt even based on hate anymore...its based on mutual respect. I think its an absolute joy to watch Peyton play. I dont enjoy seeing him win, but I have, on more than a few occasion, rooted for the Colts regardless of what a Colts win would do to the precious little Peyton/Brady debate...and I think thats a huge difference I see between some of the regular Pats fans here and many of the Colts fans here. For many here, they find a way to tie everything back to the comaparisons between Brady and Manning...and at times I think Colts fans here are more worried about Peyton's legacy than they are about the Colts success as a team...and it makes it so they cant just step back and enjoy watching these two guys play...which is too bad because our two fanbases will never see a time like this again.

[patsallday]

brady and the offense looked downright scary.

defense looks like the need some time playing together. more ups than downs, but obviously need some time playing together.

take it one game at a time. chargers up next.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Well, ESPN is back in 24/7 Brady worshipping mode again.

[patsallday]

Well, ESPN is back in 24/7 Brady worshipping mode again.

perhaps you'd prefer 24/7 peyton's neck coverage like last week??

[jpm1232]

You're overgeneralizing about Colts fans. Belichek has proven himself as a great coach(Brady has proven himself as a great QB too), even before he came to NE he had a ring with another organization. I don't hate Brady, I don't even know him. But I dislike him, only because he is a rival to my team, not to mention how people try to belittle Manning's career by rubbing 3 Super Bowl wins in the face of his fans. As if it's the official or objective way to rate an individual player.

Manning has 7,210 attempts, while Brady has 4,758 attempts.

Manning has 54,828yds and 399 TD's, while Brady has 35,261yds and 265TD's.

Manning has 198INT's, and Brady has 104INT's.

There are a few things to understand here. First off, Brady is NEVER required to throw as much as Manning. And Manning still has the biggest TD-INT differential(201TD's).

Manning has played from day one, while Brady walked into a organization that has proven to be successful for QB's. You don't know how Brady would've played if he had to start with a dead franchise. Cassel(and don't tell me Cassel can carry a bad team, the Chiefs were a good team last year) and Bledsoe for examples are QB's that had success with the Pats. I'm not taking away from Brady, I'm just saying, talking about stats between Manning and Brady is a losing battle for Brady. Manning is a statistical juggernaut You talk about yards, but Manning has 11 4,000 yard passing seasons to Brady's 3. Manning has 6 30+ TD seasons to Brady's 2. He also shows far more efficiency and good decision making than Favre. You are spewing nonsense. If Manning is Brett Favre, then Tom Brady is Terry Bradshaw minus the steroids(4 rings, but horrible numbers, but it doesn't matter when you have the Steel Curtain as your D).

Brady isn't even on pace to shatter any of Manning's major records. Manning could come back next year, throw less, and still maintain most of his records. Manning also has a much better QB rating than Favre.

1: Did it ever occur to that Manning has a higher TD:INT differential because he has played longer? A better stat to look at is TD:INT ratio. In that one, Brady leads Manning with a ratio of 2.53 compared to 2.02. Also, you saying that Manning is called on to pass much more than Brady is just flat untrue. Manning throws on average 35 times a game, Brady 33. So pretty much, Peyton is throwing 2 more times per game. Little to no difference. Also, Cassell took a team that went from 16-0 and

catch away from 19-0 to a team that went 11-5 and missed the playoffs. You can say Belichick is a great coach and Brady has great support (all true), but at the same time Tony Dungy is no slouch and Bill Polian is one of the best GMs.

Also, if you want to get into stats, I'll show you that Brady has better or equal career statistics in pretty much all major categories compared to Manning.

[P-Money]

perhaps you'd prefer 24/7 peyton's neck coverage like last week??

lol,, naw that's ok. Brady deserves props after last nights performance. I was in awe of how he managed that game. Granted the Dolphins defense was horrible but that o-line deserves just as much credit as Brady. Dude had enough time to text Gisele in that pocket!!!

[patsallday]

lol,, naw that's ok. Brady deserves props after last nights performance. I was in awe of how he managed that game. Granted the Dolphins defense was horrible but that o-line deserves just as much credit as Brady. Dude had enough time to text Gisele in that pocket!!!

lol

enough time to text gisele and tie his man-uggs.

wait, do man-uggs have laces??

[P-Money]

I dunno. I'm not GQ enough to know the answer to that. Cracks me up. He's the only athlete that I can remember that endorses designer shoes instead of athletic ones. You think he wears those sock straps with the gator clips on them to hold your socks up on game day?

[Moose Of Woe]

Brady had a monster game. The O-line he has is absolutely amazing even with injuries. On one play I counted no less than ELEVEN seconds he had to throw. On the vast majority of attempts Brady had around 4-5 seconds to act. Brady is very good at making decisions, but that line is absolutely crazy.

I give Brady credit for making the right decisions and being accurate, but you can't pin the win on him without giving just as much if not more credit to his o-line. Beastly.

Other: Nate Solder is a rookie and flat out BURIED his matchups all night long. He's gonna be tough for any DE.

For the sake of Manning Vs Brady Act 18092380328032:

As good as Brady is, he does struggle when he doesn't have 3.5+ Seconds to throw the ball. (Giants SB, Ravens playoffs, Jets playoffs) The thing is, few teams have enough defensive talent to actually get behind his line. At that point, his great numbers vanish and he looks like an average QB at best. If his line does its job exceptionally well which it usually does, I could argue anyone not named Rex Grossman would have Pro Bowl numbers year after year.

What is the common denominator in the past 3 playoff losses for the Pats? Brady falls apart when a team can get behind his line. If he runs in to the Ravens in the playoffs this season I think you'll see a repeat of two years ago. I don't think his D is any better to help him, either. Certainly not like it was in the early-mid 2000's.

Brady has at his luxury:

-Best O-line in the game. Bar none.

-Best coach in the game. Bar none.

-Decent running game.

-Good special teams.

-Decent to good defense. (Used to be GREAT)

Manning, on the other hand from 2006-2007 onward gets about 2.2 seconds to throw if he's lucky thanks to having the WORST O-line in the game as well as:

-No run game

-No special teams worth fielding sans Pat.

-Unreliable D

-Useless head coach.

All he has are his wideouts of which one or more is generally injured these days and one GREAT Tight End. That's it. I don't see how a team is "built around one guy" when the only solid components are the QB, TE, WR's, DE's and the bloody PUNTER while the rest of the team sucks.

Brady does more with less? Hardly. Manning (Also Freeney, Clark) turns a bunch of scrubs in to perennial playoff contenders. Every. Single. Season. Without 18 this team will win at most four games. I'm guessing more along the lines of 2.

[P-Money]

You can beat that dead horse all night bro. Its not gonna get back up!!

[jpm1232]

For the sake of Manning Vs Brady Act 18092380328032:

As good as Brady is, he does struggle when he doesn't have 4+ Seconds to throw the ball. (Giants SB, Ravens playoffs, Jets playoffs) I have a feeling the Pats and Ravens will meet in the playoffs and he'll fall apart again VS a team that can get behind his line. I don't think his D is any better to help him, either. Certainly not like it was in the early-mid 2000's.

-Best O-line in the game. Bar none.

-Best coach in the game. Bar none.

-Decent running game.

-Good special teams.

-Decent to good defense. (Used to be GREAT)

Manning, on the other hand from 2006-2007 onward gets about 2.2 seconds to throw if he's lucky thanks to having the WORST O-line in the game as well as:

-No run game

-No special teams worth fielding sans Pat.

-Unreliable D

-Useless head coach.

All he has are his wideouts of which one or more is generally injured these days and one GREAT Tight End. That's it. I don't see how a team is "built around one guy" when the only solid components are the QB, TE, WR's and the bloody PUNTER while the rest of the team sucks.

Brady does more with less? Hardly. Manning (Also Freeney, Clark) turns a bunch of scrubs in to perennial playoff contenders. Every. Single. Season. Without 18 this team will win at most four games. I'm guessing more along the lines of 2.

Brady makes his line look better than it is by the way he subtly moves around the pocket to avoid the rush. If they were so good then they wouldn't have signed Brian Waters of the scrap heap to start. Manning has had Wayne, Harrison, Clark, and Addai (definitely wasn't worth a 1st but he was good, and I don't remember Maroney, Green-Ellis, or Woodhead being coveted by anyone else). Brady had crap for WRs until Moss came around, and all he did when he got a great WR was throw 50 TDs. Last year he had Brandon Tate (cut now), a slightly worse Wes Welker (ACL recovery), castoff Deion Branch and some rookie TEs (who are sick though). I think the Brady has had much less is overemphasized, but he definitely hasn't had more help offensively than Peyton. Just look at the Patriots '06 offense and tell me one good player aside from Brady on that team.

Jim Caldwell is hapless and I do agree he can't carry Belichick's hoody, but Dungy was a very good coach.

Also, Indy's D has had some great years. They were 7th in points allowed in '02, 2nd in '05, 1st in '07, 7th in '08, and 8th in '09. Also, they carried Peyton during the 2006 playoffs.

[shecolt]

OK, guys, bear in mind that I am still trying to learn this game. So , take it easy on me if this is a dumb question.

Why does a QB's passing yards include YAC? The QB didn't pass that far, the receiver was the one who got the additional yardage.

BTW, this has nothing to do with Tom Brady. All QB's get credit for YAC and I am just wondering why. :???:

[Moose Of Woe]

Brady makes his line look better than it is by the way he subtly moves around the pocket to avoid the rush. If they were so good then they wouldn't have signed Brian Waters of the scrap heap to start. Manning has had Wayne, Harrison, Clark, and Addai (definitely wasn't worth a 1st but he was good, and I don't remember Maroney, Green-Ellis, or Woodhead being coveted by anyone else). Brady had crap for WRs until Moss came around, and all he did when he got a great WR was throw 50 TDs. Last year he had Brandon Tate (cut now), a slightly worse Wes Welker (ACL recovery), castoff Deion Branch and some rookie TEs (who are sick though). I think the Brady does more with less is overemphasized, but he definitely hasn't had more help offensively than Peyton.

Jim Caldwell is hapless and I do agree he can't carry Belichick's hoody, but Dungy was a very good coach.

Also, Indy's D has had some great years. They were 7th in points allowed in '02, 2nd in '05, 1st in '07, 7th in '08, and 8th in '09. Also, they carried Peyton during the 2006 playoffs.

When I say more with less, I'm talking about the entire team. Coaching, O, D, and special teams. Manning has always had a better receiving corps...of that there is little to no debate. Brady, however, has always had more. A lot more. The best coach, a great O-line, good special teams and a formerly great but still good defense. Manning has NONE of that these days. (Used to have a good line pre 2006-2007...as well as a run game because of it and a decent coach with Dungy. Still no D or ST, though.)

The one time Peyton had a somewhat complete team (Special teams still sucked) was, in fact, 2006. The D woke up and did in fact carry the team for the first couple games. The D fell apart in the first half of the Patriots but came back...and VS the Bears it didn't really matter thanks to the GROSS MAN factor.

Who led the team to the playoffs when the D was giving up 200 yards a game rushing, though? 18.

Indy's D has had many seasons with good numbers score wise. It's a bit misleading though when you watch them get marched up and down the field on all game long for long, sustained drives due to our lack of a run D. And, currently, no pass D either.

Going back a ways: Before Tarik Glenn retired the Colts offense was LOADED. Good run game with EJ....good O-line/pass protection...great WR's (Prime Marvin/Reggie) and a decent coaching staff. Manning, of course, lit it up those years but the team was still incomplete. He still had no defense to speak of and no special teams. "Insert * kicker comment here"

Brady has always had a better team. In 2004, he had IMO the best team of that decade as the defense alone that season was one of the best I've ever seen fielded.

[Moose Of Woe]

Oops double post. But since this is taking up space anyway...

Brady is the final piece of the NE machine. The one that turns it from a good team in to a juggernaut every season.

Manning IS the Colts machine. Period. The team goes from good/elite to THE PIT OF DESPAIR without him.

That being said, if I could have any QB in the league other than Peyton it would be Brady. (Honorable mentions: (Rodgers/Brees/Rivers) I think any of them would severely struggle to lead this team to a winning season, though. Let alone the playoffs or a SB.

[jpm1232]

OK, guys, bear in mind that I am still trying to learn this game. So , take it easy on me if this is a dumb question.

Why does a QB's passing yards include YAC? The QB didn't pass that far, the receiver was the one who got the additional yardage.

BTW, this has nothing to do with Tom Brady. All QB's get credit for YAC and I am just wondering why. :???:

I think because when the QB is choosing who to throw to he'll take into account the yards after the catch. Like if he throws to a guy who has a ton of field in front of him and that guy runs for 20 yards, it wouldn't be fair for the QB to only get a 3 yard pass or something. Also, that's just the way its always been done :-/

It does morph stats though... like Brady's 99 completion wasn't some bomb down the sideline, more just a slant that Welker did the work on.

[shecolt]

I think because when the QB is choosing who to throw to he'll take into account the yards after the catch. Like if he throws to a guy who has a ton of field in front of him and that guy runs for 20 yards, it wouldn't be fair for the QB to only get a 3 yard pass or something. Also, that's just the way its always been done :-/

It does morph stats though... like Brady's 99 completion wasn't some bomb down the sideline, more just a slant that Welker did the work on.

Thank you for answering my question and for being polite while doing so.

I guess that makes sense. Afterall, a QB also takes the blame for things that may not be his fault. Such as an INT or a great pass that was an incompletion because it was dropped.

Hmm, makes me think of Reche Caldwell.

Sorry about bringing that up, Patriot fans. That must have been a :tvhammer: time for all of you.

[CCH]

OK, guys, bear in mind that I am still trying to learn this game. So , take it easy on me if this is a dumb question.

Why does a QB's passing yards include YAC? The QB didn't pass that far, the receiver was the one who got the additional yardage.

BTW, this has nothing to do with Tom Brady. All QB's get credit for YAC and I am just wondering why. :???:

Because if they didn't Brady would only have about 12 yards a game...I KID!

I dunno..it could be as simple as it makes the stat line more fun to look at.

[ViriLudant]

Oops double post. But since this is taking up space anyway...

Brady is the final piece of the NE machine. The one that turns it from a good team in to a juggernaut every season.

Manning IS the Colts machine. Period. The team goes from good/elite to THE PIT OF DESPAIR without him.

That being said, if I could have any QB in the league other than Peyton it would be Brady. (Honorable mentions: (Rodgers/Brees/Rivers) I think any of them would severely struggle to lead this team to a winning season, though. Let alone the playoffs or a SB.

That team that went 5-11 before Brady started? Or that started 0-2 before Bledsoe was knocked out?

That team?

Yeah, they were great before Brady arrived.

/sarcasm off

[-JJ-]

Thank you for answering my question and for being polite while doing so.

I guess that makes sense. Afterall, a QB also takes the blame for things that may not be his fault. Such as an INT or a great pass that was an incompletion because it was dropped.

Hmm, makes me think of Reche Caldwell.

Sorry about bringing that up, Patriot fans. That must have been a :tvhammer: time for all of you.

Polian has stated the only stat that matters is YAC and the evidence supports that in that teams that win more have a higher YAC.

BB mentioned 3 stats that he finds important and one was YAC. The other was 3rd down efficiency and I forget the 3rd tho I'd be willing to bet it's red zone offense.

[-JJ-]

For the sake of Manning Vs Brady Act 18092380328032:

As good as Brady is, he does struggle when he doesn't have 3.5+ Seconds to throw the ball. (Giants SB, Ravens playoffs, Jets playoffs) The thing is, few teams have enough defensive talent to actually get behind his line. At that point, his great numbers vanish and he looks like an average QB at best. If his line does its job exceptionally well which it usually does, I could argue anyone not named Rex Grossman would have Pro Bowl numbers year after year.

I agree with all your post except to the above.(which leaves a lot I agreed with:)) Those defensive line dominated games are rare since as you say you need an 85 Bears type defense. So he has run into 3 of them..4 if you add the Lions preseason game:) Any QB will struggle but lesser QBs will struggle more.Hence why there IS a difference in QBs. PM got whacked by the Steeler playoff game defense and I'm sure I could find 2 others, one of which might be NE in 04.

The converse is also true. Given a great Oline not every QB will have pro bowl numbers. Again, only the great QBs will. The others will do better than if no Oline but not near the quality of a PM,Brady,Elway or whoever you want to put in that category.

A QB needs a great team to go far for sure...but a great QB also makes use of that opportunity and just adds to the lethality of it.

[Moose Of Woe]

That team that went 5-11 before Brady started? Or that started 0-2 before Bledsoe was knocked out?

That team?

Yeah, they were great before Brady arrived.

/sarcasm off

Yes. That team. The one that became great by 2003 and flat out absurd in 2004 by the time Belichick and his staff were done.

It's been good to great overall ever since - although the D has never exceeded what it did in 2004. A team that got good enough overall to the point where even a backup QB, after a couple games getting up to NFL speed, got you that close to making the playoffs. Though you fell short, and that's where Brady being the final piece comes in to play. His talent probably wins you another 2-3 games and you make the playoffs that season.

When they won it all in 2001 the Patriots weren't a great team at that point, but were good enough to be in contention and got some lucky breaks along the way to winning a SB. Brady wasn't even a very good QB when he started, either. He could throw 5-10 yard screens and was horrible at long passes. He got substantially better after a couple seasons. (Around 2003) You could see he bulked up by quite a bit.

Don't get snippy with me. >_>