Who's the best "old school" QB ever?

[Dustin]

I'm talking about QBs that played before the 80's. I say Unitas but I was arguing with somebody else that made a very compelling case for Bart Starr. 

[shakedownstreet]

bert jones

[chad72]

Staubach, no???

[CR91]

otto graham. cant argue 10 straight trips to the championship

[stat2883]

Depends on your criteria...someone who played only QB? Or someone who played multiple positions including QB?

[Dustin]

Pure QB. So no George Blandas.

[stat2883]

Pure QB. So no George Blandas.

I was thinking more along the lines of Sammy Baugh. Baugh played some pretty good defense for his time - and not too shabby at punting either. Even as pure QBs, neither one of them were slouches though. Baugh I would put up ahead of Blanda though as a QB. Other names - Unitas and Starr are two obvious ones. Len Dawson I think was underrated. Sid Luckman was a good downfield passer. Namath was legit. Otto Graham did nothing but win. Tarkenton was pretty exciting too.

My gut says Unitas if we're going as a pure QB, but I could probably build a decent case for any of those guys above - some easier than others.

[subvet]

Going way back to the beginning of the pass--Sammy Baugh, 

The 50s Otto Graham and Bobby Layne

The 60s Johnny U and Bart Starr

The 70s Roger Staubach and Terry Bradshaw

 

Wasn't sure of your definition of "old school" so I covered all eras.

[southwest1]

I'm talking about QBs that played before the 80's. I say Unitas but I was arguing with somebody else that made a very compelling case for Bart Starr. 

My friend Bayone would agree with you Dustin. He's got some great memorbilia on Johnny Unitas. I'm surprised that he hasn't chimed in on this topic yet. I'd go with Unitas too actually. Cool topic! 

[southwest1]

Going way back to the beginning of the pass--Sammy Baugh, 

The 50s Otto Graham and Bobby Layne

The 60s Johnny U and Bart Starr

The 70s Roger Staubach and Terry Bradshaw

 

Wasn't sure of your definition of "old school" so I covered all eras.

Leave it to my other buddy subvet to cover all the bases & leave no stone unturned. I can't root for Stabach though. I'm been indoctrinated to despise & detest the Cowboys since I was 5 years old. I can't go there I'm afraid.   It's only a great day if the Colts win & the Cowboys lose miserably in my book. 

[Coltsince4]

Unitas of course for me since he made me a Colts fan in 1958 and followed him to the end of his playing days. I Could write a book on him why I think he was the best ever but i'll leave it at that for now.

[bayone]

Unitas of course for me since he made me a Colts fan in 1958 and followed him to the end of his playing days. I Could write a book on him why I think he was the best ever but i'll leave it at that for now.

 

OBVIOUSLY & agree with every word u wrote as I am also a colt since 3 or 4

 

My friend Bayone would agree with you Dustin. He's got some great memorbilia on Johnny Unitas. I'm surprised that he hasn't chimed in on this topic yet. I'd go with Unitas too actually. Cool topic! 

 

MOM & I are really to sick and health comes first as things worsen for both, esp me currently sick over a month in repeated patterns from sat thru wed at least , 

 

 colts & peyton's season ended

 

( man i wanted both teams to win but  colts  with great cap space we are positioned well to build a team of all around balance for years to come )   

 

THUS , I will be here sparingly , cant get into exchanges that some insist on once u [post a comment, Heres hoping II am done for the day

 

TIME TO CONCENTRATE ON HEALTH ISSUES

 

Read latest in these comments of mine which dont even include all the nights in an ER with her & / or visiting her at a hospital as inpatient, remember 94, brain tumor , COPD , Now trauma too & my worsening health

 

& yes there are always others worse off than me but moms is moms

 

comment #'s to read 129,134,146,147, & 151 & u will understand time now to rest and get well for draft hopefully but really for next season

 

 http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/6839-open-letter-to-all-my-forum-friends-why-i-am-not-here/page-4#entry389200

[OldManP]

Unitas of course for me since he made me a Colts fan in 1958 and followed him to the end of his playing days. I Could write a book on him why I think he was the best ever but i'll leave it at that for now.

Agree!

[Synthetic]

I loved Roger Staubach, Brian Sipe, Terry Bradshaw, Kenny Stabler, etc...

[RGIII]

Going way back to the beginning of the pass--Sammy Baugh, 

The 50s Otto Graham and Bobby Layne

The 60s Johnny U and Bart Starr

The 70s Roger Staubach and Terry Bradshaw

 

Wasn't sure of your definition of "old school" so I covered all eras.

 

Good list.  Not so sure I'd throw Bradshaw in there, though, and I'm contractually obligated to remind everybody that Dallas Sucks.

 

Fran Tarkenton also probably needs to be snuck somewhere on to the list for the 60s/70s.

[GoPats]

Johnny Unitas, Sammy Baugh, Otto Graham, Roger Staubach, Bart Starr...

 

I actually learned quite a bit about all these guys by reading this book: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1600786367.

 

Whether one agrees with the author's conclusions or not (and for the most part I'm not even sure myself that I do), it's an excellent resource to get a little info on the past greats.

[Yehoodi]

Going way back to the beginning of the pass--Sammy Baugh, 

The 50s Otto Graham and Bobby Layne

The 60s Johnny U and Bart Starr

The 70s Roger Staubach and Terry Bradshaw

 

Wasn't sure of your definition of "old school" so I covered all eras.

i like your list but i might add Stabler as an honorable mention for the 70s . . .

[John Dee]

Roger Staubach

Kenny Anderson   ....   one of the most glaring HOF snubs

Ken Stabler

 

IMO Those were the best of their era.

[tonychen]

^{Johnny Unitas}

[jvan1973]

Otto grahem had the most championships. According to most here that equals the best. Otto grahem is the greatest qb to walk this or any other planet

[Fx Stryker]

Johnny U is THE greatest of all time!

[GoPats]

Unitas of course for me since he made me a Colts fan in 1958 and followed him to the end of his playing days. I Could write a book on him why I think he was the best ever but i'll leave it at that for now.

 

It is safe to say, regardless of the topic, that if you are a person who enjoys football, you enjoy football because of Johnny U.

 

I have mad respect for that guy's place in the history of the game. Always hard to compare players from different eras, but if you love the game, you probably owe that to Unitas.

[shakedownstreet]

It is safe to say, regardless of the topic, that if you are a person who enjoys football, you enjoy football because of Johnny U.

 

I have mad respect for that guy's place in the history of the game. Always hard to compare players from different eras, but if you love the game, you probably owe that to Unitas.

 

unless you are under 50. some age showing in this thread

[The Fish]

I'm going to go ahead and admit that I only really understand Unitas as a player in the history books. (I know, history didn't start the day I was born) If I said or agreed it was Unitas I'd be dishonest, because I've only seen a few highlights and understand that there's some serious history there.

 

That said, Montana to Rice. The best ever.

[bayone]

It is safe to say, regardless of the topic, that if you are a person who enjoys football, you enjoy football because of Johnny U.

 

I have mad respect for that guy's place in the history of the game. Always hard to compare players from different eras, but if you love the game, you probably owe that to Unitas.

for the uptenth time i will  copy & paste this , either as a reminder or as new to someone

 

 

 grew up with Unitas, all said abouit him true, just may have been the greatest, 2 pre SB world chmps & SB as well

 

many have read this But I will copy & paste & post again for those that havent

 

=========================

 

Unitas in his prime was awesome but got hurt and often played quite well hurt

This is copy & paste so various type

UNITAS should forever be in that conversation Re the greatest

, He was unique esp for his time & could make every throw imaginable as well as all the film study back then

2 NFL Championships before the superbowl & 1 superbowl,

developed the 2 minute offense in greatest game ever on the fly on last drive

---------------------------

Unitas story,

have this on my computer as been asked before

I wish i had time to tell u all as grew up with him playing and his rookie card was in my 1st pack of football cards bought

he did all the film study as Peyton , did it with Ray berry

just 1 thing

BEST EXAMPLE THAT COMES TO MIND WAS IN GREATEST GAME EVER PLAYED

As Many Know

 

as far as his skill set & playing in a era of running the ball in the greatest game ever he put the NFL on the national stage for the ist time with the first ever 2 minute drill to tie the game and going for the TD in OT instead of basically an extra point distance FG

ALSO

Unitas was one of the smartest players football wise to ever play. Unitas called the offense to and adjusted based on the defense

even when Unitas coaches said above all dont do this he still did what he wanted anyway & usually worked. He would study for hours on end with ray berry and they had the Manning Harrison Communication with a look

THIS IS HOW THE FIRST BEVER 2 MINUTE DRILL CAME ABOUT- FILM STUDY

'That 58 game champ game on the first ever 2 minute drive to tie ,

 

Well in that final tying drive's start there was a defense they never saw before on the playing field designed to take away the sideline throw to berry to the outside & letting him get out of bounds after a catch using 2 defenders & keeping the clock going as Giants Knew with little time a sideline pass would be done

way before this they saw that same defense in film that is after studying tons of film, & not on the Giants but in general and said if we ever see this lets do this

Well they each looked at each other and wondered if the other remembered what they discussed one time in the past

, the play started, and instead of going to the outside Berry cut across the middle of the field where when he turned to look the ball was there right in his hands , Berry in full stride and the same on the nexrt few plays & they marched down the field to tie

Remember for the win he could of called a FG, and called a run & got a TD in first ever OT game , not just OT in championship

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1 pass I will never forget

RB Lenny Moore runs to the sidelines and them upfield, Unitas sees him and delivers a pass that in my memory traveled 50 yards to hit Moore perfectly in stride who ran another 20 for the 70 yard TD, I think that sticks in my mind over some of Berry's highlights as the way Unitas often did that with Moore out of the Backfield, Unitas, Berry & Moore were the triplets of the time

----

Unitas dumped after draft Picked in 9th round, many rounds back then , actualy that was pick # 102 overall in 55 , Steelers evaluated their pick and dumped him, colts picked him up in 56 after he was playing in sandlot games for $ 6 a game, and seen by Colt CM who sent a postcard to invite unitas ti try out , Colt players lauighed when 1st saw skiny kid with a bad right shoulder

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1 Great Game situation, a post game question and what a confident statement in ones abilities

in a game in which the COLTS were in the shadow of there own goal, first down and 15 after a penalty and instead of running to get more room. He lofted the ball to the 45 yard line and the reciever did the rest. No fear and very confident in his ability. Someone asked him if that was a dangerous pass and he said not if you know what you're doing.

 

Now Thats Confidence and shows why he was the teams leader ( this was given to me by another But I do remember such a comment )

 

IN the book I will reference below after the following story & similar statement meaning the same thing

 

THE LINER I REFERENCED ABOVE I KNEW I ALSO READ something else similar , In the book I mentioned

I will copy word for word his answer after the story of the winning play, the question regards gambling on a pass 1 dwn before the TD run when Coach Ewbanks called a timeout to explicuty tell Unitas to keep it on the ground and then Unitas threw on the very next play

In the OT win in the greatest game ever played

wanting to win such a game with a td,, not a fg, as such a game deserved a td victory, and knowing he was being pressured much up, the middle in OT especially on pass plays , NEARING THE GOAL LINE after a run for no gain, then a 12 yard pass to berry to the 8 ,Coach ewbanks wanted a fg, not unitas though , he was thinking td from the drives start

A timeout called & Coach Ewbanks told Unitas in no uncertain terms to keep it on the ground and knew if didnt get in had a FG in his pocket, & as he feared an unfortunate IT wanted to eliminate the possibility, Unitas did run it but only for 1 play, AMeche got only 1 yard and was tiring So the last 2 runs netted 1 yard and Unitas wanted more

He threw a daring 6 yard pass to Mutscheller who was shoved out of bounds at the 1, Then on the next play fooled the giants by having Ameche not run behind the great OT , HOFer , Parker as they expected but sent him to the other side toward OG Sandusky & OT George Preas. the 2 opened a monstrous hole for Ameche who crossing the goal line actually fell in under his own tired momentum

Unitas then ran off the field, job done, he did what was expected of him by others but more importantly by himself * & didnt want to be engulfed with rest of team at the goaline, he went to the visitors locker room for safety which then became a bedlam of reporters

Unitas said " they couldn't of stopped us if we needed 10 yards " .

1 reporter asked Unitas about gambling with that throw to Mutscheller & risking an IT. Unitas politely answered but with calculated assuredness:

" It wasn't a gamble. They didn't see what I saw . When you know what you're doing, you're not intercepted. The Giants were jammed up at the line and not expecting a pass. If Jim ( Mutscheller ) had been covered, I'd have thrown the pass out of bounds, It's just that I would rather win. a game like this by a touchdown than a field goal. It was no sweat. They were playing one on one, looking for a run. All I had to do was flip it up there for Jim and let him catch it. I dont expect a pass like that to fail & it didnt. No matter how good a defense is you can always find a weakness somewhere. You find it and start hitting it. When they close it up, you have to then find the next weakness "

A # of Qb's could throw long but Unitas could Pass long, there's a difference, but the complete QB is the one who can also think. Unitas won every inch of that game with his head

Post game The Great Giant HOF defender Sam Huff said; " the man was a genius, I never saw a QB that good on those two drives " (meaning the tying FG ^& winning OT drives )

That answer Unitas gave above could easily have come from Peytons Mouth / Brady's Mouth

------------------

In the book Johnny Unitas Americas QB, 2 forwards 1 by teamate Art Donovan & 1 by Peyton -- peyton said

You hear aabout players from other eras, & some wonder if thgey would be as good today. Well let me tell u, there's no wondering about Johnny Unitas. He was a superstar then. He would be a superstar today. The NFL should name an award after him for all that hes meant. He put the NFL on the map.

--------------------------------

Coaches often said whatever u do dont do this, Unitas would do it anyway based on what he saw and it worked

he was an earlier version of Peyton smarts way ahead of his time

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

there was 1 game he was mauled but legal then, he stood up , blood flowing from his nose & I think was Mackey but not sure who stuffed mud up his nose to slow it but while still bleeding and blood flowing down face he didnt miss a down and led the team downfield to score. So when u were out of a game back then u really were hurt\\

---------------

Now why did he even get to play

Colts had # 1 draft choice in 55 & picked a QB George Shaw, ( BTW also got ameche in that draft )

Colts likeed Shaw and was building a team with Shaw designed as the leader , but he got hurt, Unitas came in , all were stunned & Shaw never again was the starter, Thats Sandlot Vs # 1 drafdt pick

The skinny kid unitas was picked up just for a backup and nothing expected of him,

OF NOTE

Unitas 1st pass IT pick 6 , 2nd play fumbled handoff , then all turned around and thuss became the golden arm

Thats all could go on forever but u get my feelings

 

[bayone]

Johnny Unitas, Sammy Baugh, Otto Graham, Roger Staubach, Bart Starr...

 

I actually learned quite a bit about all these guys by reading this book: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1600786367.

 

Whether one agrees with the author's conclusions or not (and for the most part I'm not even sure myself that I do), it's an excellent resource to get a little info on the past greats.

link didnt work for me , Bough & Grahm yes  best really before I knew anything , Starr ,I remember the frozen 1 yard sneak to win

 

I DIGRESS < SORRY< EVERYONE ELSE DOES

,admired those packers and he had the 2 golden boy RBs alongside him , though Hourning hurt and didnt play in 1st SB, Paul Hourning , 1 of thge  3 ( OJ & CAMPBELL) to win the hiesman & Be selected 1st in draft & later team up with Jim Taylor, Now thats a backfield

 

at age 29 Hourning had 5 TDS Vs My Colts, but no one will remember that, Why, later that day Sayers got 6 & thats  overshadowed the 5

 

Thanks for putting up with my mental escape on the RB's 

[GoPats]

unless you are under 50. some age showing in this thread

 

I'm out of likes. Getcha tomorrow?

 

I'm a little shy of 50 but I love NFL history... can't get enough of that stuff. Even if the under-50 crowd doesn't realize it, it's true though... Unitas, more than any single player, is responsible for the massive popularity of the NFL.

 

Kind of like a kid who doesn't know the Beatles from Bach, but also doesn't realize that they changed things.

[subvet]

Good list.  Not so sure I'd throw Bradshaw in there, though, and I'm contractually obligated to remind everybody that Dallas Sucks.

 

Fran Tarkenton also probably needs to be snuck somewhere on to the list for the 60s/70s.

I lived in Dallas for 14 years starting at the beginning of the Aikman years but still managed to not be infected with fandom.  As for Terry Bradshaw, his inclusion was on ring power, with that many I felt he had to make a list somewhere.

[stat2883]

Kenny Anderson   ....   one of the most glaring HOF snubs

I concur. Its a shame he never won the big one, else he might be more well known. One of Bill Walsh's first QBs.

[coltsfanmilyman]

I'm out of likes. Getcha tomorrow?

 

I'm a little shy of 50 but I love NFL history... can't get enough of that stuff. Even if the under-50 crowd doesn't realize it, it's true though... Unitas, more than any single player, is responsible for the massive popularity of the NFL.

 

Kind of like a kid who doesn't know the Beatles from Bach, but also doesn't realize that they changed things.

 

 

Sorry to hijack here but one thing that always has made me laugh is seeing 10,11,12 heck up to 15 or 16 year old kids wearing pink floyd, zepplin, hendrix t-shirts.  I hope that they are really listening to the music and not just wearing the shirts.

 

 

Back on topic, I'm relatively young so I didn't have the chance to watch some of the greats mentioned here but I do remember Montana, Young and some Elway.  I guess those would be the ones that I remember seeing play and just being awed.  One of my personal favorites (for obvious reasons) was Harbaugh.  I know he wasn't the end all be all and there were several that were leaps and bounds better, but man when he got dubbed "Captain Comeback" he epitomized what I loved about athletes. He had that never say die attitude and was just thrilling to watch for me personally.

[Tark The Shark]

Tarkenton was revolutionary as the first pure QB who could scramble and throw the ball. 

 

Unitas is simply one of the best throwers of the football, always such a fluid motion with how he threw the ball.

 

Those 2 are my favorite "old school" QBs.