Bringing the RBs & TEs into the passing game

[ell_chrisso]

It's pretty clear to me from the start of the season that Arians offensive passing style is to go for medium to deep ball shots more often than short to medium.

I believe in the last couple of games we have missed a beat by not giving the RBs a chance to make a play. IMO there is something we need to bring in to our offense, wether its Andrews decision making or Arians style that needs changing to dump the ball off more and complete some higher percentage passes. I also believe that is why Luck is down in the 50s completion percentage rather than up in the 60s. He is also doing very well not to turn the ball over as much as he could have being a rookie with the number of deep passing attempts.

Donald Brown has shown that given the edge, or space to burst into he can make big plays, can't we start running a RB screen? Maybe some delayed routes from coming out the backfield? Vick Ballard didn't make a catch until the 4th quarter in the Jets game...

I also think he should start to look for Allen a lot more in the middle of the field as he has proven toughness and good hands in traffic. Fleener is probably more suited to the deeper routes we are throwing, and I believe spreading it out more will help him become more open as the games unravel

I know this all sounds conservative, but even installing these kind of pass plays 5/6 times a game will help slow down the rush, help out the O-Line, and keep us from zoning in on Reggie Wayne all day.

Sorry its long & winded message

Thoughts?

[Smonroe]

Fleener and Allen already get a lot of looks. They're 3 and 4 as far as catches. We do need to leave either our RB or HB in to block though. I hate that empty backfield set, Luck never has time to throw. We can't get anyone downfield so what's the point?

DB is a threat in the open field, I do wish they'd swing him out more. Like they did with Joe on the wheel route.

[Nostrils]

i wanna see more RB screens

[funktacious2]

I agree about the RBs. Especially Brown. Brown is fantastic in open space as long as he not getting hit as soon as he's catching the ball. (Or if he's catching it at all )

[#12]

I believe in the last couple of games we have missed a beat by not giving the RBs a chance to make a play.

I've been thinking about this a lot since Sunday. Considering his first NFL pass went for a 60 yard TD on a dumpoff, and considering the type of pressure he's been under, you would think he would be looking for the backs more. Brown dropped a few balls vs. the Bears, and we haven't seen much of it since. He certainly could use more easy completions.

[Gavin]

While Brown did drop two balls I think to much is made about it, Thats not to say it wasn't a big deal because it was of course but like said above we need some more easy completions, everyone who has ever played wide receiver or fullback or tight end or running back has dropped a pass

[JoKeR]

Don't we have about 5-8 short passes a game already? Do you mean make the offense primarily short to medium passes because so far RBs and TEs are being targeted.

[ell_chrisso]

One thing that made me feel more strongly in dumping the ball off to the back was watching Manning last night. He quickly realised the running game wasn't going to be as effective as him passing the ball. The play where he dumped the ball of to McGahee and he went for 40 odd yard gain from inside the 10 is the kind of play we miss to relieve pressure on Luck.

I just can't decide whether he isn't coming down to his running backs when receivers are shut down, or wether Arians plays are designed not to throw to the back at all. I agree we need to keep them in for protection, but putting them out on a pattern changes things up and makes it less predictable. It also stops one less backer blitzing.

Brees, Brady, Rodgers are all taking just as much dump off passes to Sproules/Whitehead,Welker/Cobb as they are shots down the field.

[Superman]

Don't we have about 5-8 short passes a game already? Do you mean make the offense primarily short to medium passes because so far RBs and TEs are being targeted.

I think more designed plays for the running backs should be included. The tight ends will be involved in the short, medium and long aspects of the passing game. But the backs should be used on middle screens, flat tosses, etc. And they haven't been. Out of 44 attempts in the Jets game, only three went toward a back. In 55 attempts against the Packers, only three went to backs. In 46 attempts against the Jags, only two were to backs. We're largely ignoring the backs in the passing game.

I think the merits of short, quick passes to backs are obvious: you counter the pass rush (and our pass protection is subpar to this point), you get the primary ball carriers out in space with blockers in front of them, and you allow your quarterback to get into a rhythm. The opening play in the preseason is a perfect example. Then there's the delayed pass play to Brown against the Jags that went for 40 yards. There are a ton of ways to use short passes to pop big gains.

And, to this point, they simply haven't been a part of the offense. Luck has been sacked 8 times in the past two games, and we haven't run a single middle screen. I don't think we should be trying to convert the entire passing game to short and intermediate throws, but I do think our passing game should be more decisive and it should do more to counteract the pass rush we've been dealing with. When you have a veteran quarterback who can identify pressures before the snap and diagnose defenses on the fly, you let him pick the defense apart. When you have a rookie who is clearly struggling to string completions together, mostly down the field, you take some pressure off of him and the offensive line with good play calling. We haven't done that so far. A little bit in the second half of the Packers game, but for the most part, it's been lacking.

[ell_chrisso]

^^ That there is exactly my thoughts! 10/10

[jemack]

The TEs need to stay in to block or luck will be carried off the field

[ell_chrisso]

But the TEs don't have to stay in if we are running quick short routes, hitches, drag routes, slants. The TEs especially Allen are kept in on plays where we are wanting to go deep to Wayne or Avery.

And with how athletic they both are we could do with throwing some more middle and swing screens to Donald Brown behind them both. For downfield blocking.

[Captain Americolt]

All I wanna say is... I hate that empty backfield set. It's obvious we are not going to run. We also have a putrid o-line that cannot sustain blocks. The defense drops 7 or more into coverage. Thats asking a little to much from a rookie QB.

[Superman]

All I wanna say is... I hate that empty backfield set. It's obvious we are not going to run. We also have a putrid o-line that cannot sustain blocks. The defense drops 7 or more into coverage. Thats asking a little to much from a rookie QB.

It has its advantages, particularly when it comes to identifying blitzes and coverage. But I do hate it on third down.

[USAFHoosier]

We have talked about running more screens to DB many times already this year. His open field play making ability is his best attribute by far. Im sure everyone remembers the middle screen on Lucks first NFL pass in the preseason.

[PrincetonTiger]

Fine as long as the rbs are moving inn the right direction

[IndyTrav]

More screens would help.

Luck taking off and running every once in awhile I feel would probably help even more than that.

[jemack]

But the TEs don't have to stay in if we are running quick short routes, hitches, drag routes, slants. The TEs especially Allen are kept in on plays where we are wanting to go deep to Wayne or Avery.

And with how athletic they both are we could do with throwing some more middle and swing screens to Donald Brown behind them both. For downfield blocking.

The problem is timing and probably will be for a while. From the line getting off the ball to the TE's being capable of bump and run. Castonzo and Luck need to practice the cadence call. I don't know if Glenn and Manning ever did, but Glenn knew when that last "hut" was coming. Sure he got called for it from time to time, but that was a great advantage for him and Manning

[TnColt8]

Screens would help ease the pressure off of the O-Line too.. I am not a fan of the no backfield sets either, that completely goes against our two TE draft.. Play to your strengths.

[Tark The Shark]

I agree, more screens and 5-10 yard passes should be incorporated into the offense.

Also spreading the ball around keeps pressure off one guy i.e. Reggie.

During the Jets game, Reggie shouldn't have been targeted so much because Cromartie was all over him the entire game.

It was amazing that Luck even got it to him sometimes.

Deep passes only work if we run the ball well and play action off it, or throw a bunch of short passes before going deep.

[Superman]

More screens would help.

Luck taking off and running every once in awhile I feel would probably help even more than that.

I'd like to see him take off and run when the play breaks down, but I wouldn't want him to start bailing out on a regular basis. What he did in the second half against the Packers was perfect.

[PMan Escape Plan]

i agree with all who want to see more RB screens..

id also like to see our TE in motion more often. try to confuse the defense. i remember a play against the jets were fleener was in motion on play involving misdirection. ended up with a 1st down on 3rd and 7.

[stat2883]

id also like to see our TE in motion more often. try to confuse the defense. i remember a play against the jets were fleener was in motion on play involving misdirection. ended up with a 1st down on 3rd and 7.

That's one aspect that I think gets over looked too is the use of shifts and motion pre-snap. Can be used to force the defense to tip their hand, or even have to change assignments at the last second and cause hesitation. Yes though I agree with everyone here that a shorter, more lateral game will slow the rush down and force the LBs and DEs to play more disciplined and not just get to pin their ears back and go after Luck. Getting the running game going would make a world of difference, but not so sure they have the horses to do it on a consistent basis. Still building though

[ell_chrisso]

Finally! Maybe the game winning TD will give Arians more awareness to the RBs that could make game changing/winning plays