Fleener?

[deedub75]

Can anyone tell me why we picked Fleener instead of O-line or D-line help in the 2nd round? I'm not hating on Fleener but we sure could have used the O-line or D-line help. Was Fleener the best available on the board when we picked?

[Nobody]

I for one was completely against the Fleener pick, but its over, we made it. No use rehashing it.

[ReMeDy]

Well Mike Mayock didn't like any of the TE's, so depends who you ask. Fleener was, however, projected as a late 1st round pick with the biggest possibilities being the 49'ers and the Giants, but both passed him up. Considering Andrew Luck's chemistry with Fleener, it seemed like a great idea. Time will tell if it was the right move.

The idea from what I've heard is the Colts wanted to build offense this year and defense next year, so watch for plenty of defensive picks in next year's draft.

[John Waylon]

The kid's physicals are amazing. He's huge, he's fast, he had great hands in college. He's a great route runner, and he has proven to have great chemistry with our future franchise QB. He hasn't yet translated to the NFL, but the pick was a no-brainer.

If the roles had been reversed and we had been forced to take RG3 it wouldn't make as much sense, but Luck and his #1 target who has all the tools he needs to join the ranks of Grokowski, Graham, and Davis?

Um, yes please.

[Gavin]

Tight Ends were never a big part of Arians game to begin with

[Mouthfire]

The kid's physicals are amazing. He's huge, he's fast, he had great hands in college. He's a great route runner, and he has proven to have great chemistry with our future franchise QB. He hasn't yet translated to the NFL, but the pick was a no-brainer.

If the roles had been reversed and we had been forced to take RG3 it wouldn't make as much sense, but Luck and his #1 target who has all the tools he needs to join the ranks of Grokowski, Graham, and Davis?

Um, yes please.

I don't know. Maybe I'm biased, but I thought Cordy Glenn would've been a better pick. He was projected as a mid 1st rounder and somehow dropped to the 2nd. He's currently starting on the Bills O line and looks impressive, from what I hear.

Personally, I thought that was the real no brainer. That being said, Fleener has a lot of potential and I hope he pans out.

[deedub75]

Looks like a rookie defense coordinator, a rookie head coach, and a castaway offensive coordinator playing fantasy football to me. Didn't make sense to go heavy offense this draft and go heavy defense in the next draft when you know the defense has stunk for years.

I'm also venting also because I'm tallying up my expenses for attending today's game.

[John Waylon]

Tight Ends were never a big part of Arians game to begin with

Offense is evolving. TE's are becoming huge matchup advantages. Look at Graham and Gronkowski. Vernon Davis. Remember how lethal we became when Dallas Clark really started taking off for us? These big, fast, agile guys who are hard to cover are becoming more convenient for a QB to throw to than a WR. Teams with great TE's who present matchup nightmares have a nice advantage when it's time to pass the ball.

[deedub75]

I don't know. Maybe I'm biased, but I thought Cordy Glenn would've been a better pick. He was projected as a mid 1st rounder and somehow dropped to the 2nd. He's currently starting on the Bills O line and looks impressive, from what I hear.

Personally, I thought that was the real no brainer. That being said, Fleener has a lot of potential and I hope he pans out.

I remember during the draft that I was hoping that another team would pick Fleener before we picked in the second round! Nothing against him but we had just picked our franchise QB and I wanted some protection for him. I guess I'm just being silly.

[John Waylon]

I don't know. Maybe I'm biased, but I thought Cordy Glenn would've been a better pick. He was projected as a mid 1st rounder and somehow dropped to the 2nd. He's currently starting on the Bills O line and looks impressive, from what I hear.

Personally, I thought that was the real no brainer. That being said, Fleener has a lot of potential and I hope he pans out.

I also think Grigson and Pagano had collaborated to run an offense very Stanford-like it it's makeup to help Luck hit the ground running, and since we had literally NO TE's at that point, the move made sense.

Glenn would have been nice, but I dunno if it was the better pick, even if Fleener is a bust. The upside to Fleener is incredible.

I also think that at that time, the front office had more faith in it's offensive line unit than it really should have, and they didn't see it as the most pressing of needs.

[Gavin]

Offense is evolving. TE's are becoming huge matchup advantages. Look at Graham and Gronkowski. Vernon Davis. Remember how lethal we became when Dallas Clark really started taking off for us? These big, fast, agile guys who are hard to cover are becoming more convenient for a QB to throw to than a WR. Teams with great TE's who present matchup nightmares have a nice advantage when it's time to pass the ball.

oh I agree with you 100 percent, I didnt say it was smart to chuck the ball down field and have our Tight Ends have to block on most plays

[Smonroe]

Everyone who's ticked about trading next years 2nd round pick should realize that sometimes they just don't work out. Or maybe they take time to work out.

I'm happy with the trade for Davis. I just wish they would somehow work Fleener into the game plan. He has to be a mismatch with any LB out there.

[deedub75]

I also think Grigson and Pagano had collaborated to run an offense very Stanford-like it it's makeup to help Luck hit the ground running, and since we had literally NO TE's at that point, the move made sense.

Glenn would have been nice, but I dunno if it was the better pick, even if Fleener is a bust. The upside to Fleener is incredible.

I also think that at that time, the front office had more faith in it's offensive line unit than it really should have, and they didn't see it as the most pressing of needs.

Please tell me why the front office would have any faith in the offensive line than they really should have? If they did then Irsay really made a dumb choice of hiring them all.

[Gavin]

Please tell me why the front office would have any faith in the offensive line than they really should have? If they did then Irsay really made a dumb choice of hiring them all.

they came cheap, Grigson was familiar with them (Justice and Mcglynn) and we had very little cap to spend

[John Waylon]

oh I agree with you 100 percent, I didnt say it was smart to chuck the ball down field and have our Tight Ends have to block on most plays

I think once we get our O-line fixed (wth am I talking about? I don't even know if I know what that means anymore lol) and we can unleash Fleener/Allen downfield we're going to be in good, good shape. (If Fleener lives up to expectations)

My only concern is future salaries. If we've got these two monster TE's and we pay them both big deals, where is that money going to take from elsewhere. Do we skimp on WR's, since they won't be as important? Very new, and different territory we could he headed into before all is said and done...

[deedub75]

they came cheap, Grigson was familiar with them (Justice and Mcglynn) and we had very little cap to spend

Oh Ok. That's actually called blind faith then.

[ALL BLUE]

Everyone seems to forget he is a rookie,would put my money on him being a future star but yes we could use some lineman.

[John Waylon]

Please tell me why the front office would have any faith in the offensive line than they really should have? If they did then Irsay really made a dumb choice of hiring them all.

they came cheap, Grigson was familiar with them (Justice and Mcglynn) and we had very little cap to spend

We had made some new signings, that, at the time, seemed like upgrades. It was the offseason. We hadn't yet seen them in action. It looked good on paper. By the time we finally got the group on the field and found out it wasn't, it was far too late to draft someone.

[GoodLuck]

Dude reminds me of Matt Jones. Crazy athletic, but something is missing and he seems soft.

[haseo15]

He's a rookie! 60% of the team is rookies its a plus to get something out of your rookies not expected. It's takes them time.

[NewColtsFan]

Please tell me why the front office would have any faith in the offensive line than they really should have? If they did then Irsay really made a dumb choice of hiring them all.

We're operating with an $80 million dollar salary cap. The NFL salary cap is roughly $120 Mill. We've got $40 Mill in so-called 'dead money'.... that's money we can't spend.

So, in reality, with only being able to spend $80 Mill this year, we're operating with 2/3rds of a roster. What we've got is the best we could afford. Next year will be different. We've got lots of money to spend, and I'm assuming (always dangerous) we'll try to buy ourselves some better OL.

We had better. The one we have is one of the worst I've ever seen and I've been following the NFL for 45 years.

Sorry. Wish I had better news.... but there it is....

[BOTT]

already? how surprising........

[John Waylon]

Oh Ok. That's actually called blind faith then.

Do you wanna explain to the rest of us how you add members to your team WITHOUT "blind faith"?

[Gavin]

I think once we get our O-line fixed (wth am I talking about? I don't even know if I know what that means anymore lol) and we can unleash Fleener/Allen downfield we're going to be in good, good shape. (If Fleener lives up to expectations)

My only concern is future salaries. If we've got these two monster TE's and we pay them both big deals, where is that money going to take from elsewhere. Do we skimp on WR's, since they won't be as important? Very new, and different territory we could he headed into before all is said and done...

with that saif Allen did have 5 catches today for 35 yards

[BrentMc11]

Tight Ends were never a big part of Arians game to begin with

???? sarcasm???? Please say yes Gavin.

[John Waylon]

with that saif Allen did have 5 catches today for 35 yards

Allen has done a great job thus far... It's a shame we're nearly forced to leave him in to block as much as we do because he's catching whatever he can.

[Gavin]

Oh Ok. That's actually called blind faith then.

yep

[deedub75]

We're operating with an $80 million dollar salary cap. The NFL salary cap is roughly $120 Mill. We've got $40 Mill in so-called 'dead money'.... that's money we can't spend.

So, in reality, with only being able to spend $80 Mill this year, we're operating with 2/3rds of a roster. What we've got is the best we could afford. Next year will be different. We've got lots of money to spend, and I'm assuming (always dangerous) we'll try to buy ourselves some better OL.

We had better. The one we have is one of the worst I've ever seen and I've been following the NFL for 45 years.

Sorry. Wish I had better news.... but there it is....

There was money available. We just didn't put it in the right places. We could have drafted some o-line and d-line help and could have cut Freeney and Vinateri and saved $16M+. Instead we said we're in rebuilding mode but we want to win now. We are in rebuilding mode but at the same time we're trying to reload. Can't rebuild and reload at the same time. More dead weight could have been cut. In my opinion we've pushed the rebuilding back a year because we have to get a whole new defense next year and wait a year for them to gel.

[PrincetonTiger]

I think the Fleener and Allen tandem is doing great

[Devildog]

Fleener lost in the sauce, lol. I expect him to flourish in the coming years but not this year.

[deedub75]

Do you wanna explain to the rest of us how you add members to your team WITHOUT "blind faith"?

When you add crap on top of crap, what do you have????? We had a horrible o-line last season and really didn't add any better players to it but we expected them to somehow magically play better than last year.

[Mouthfire]

I also think Grigson and Pagano had collaborated to run an offense very Stanford-like it it's makeup to help Luck hit the ground running, and since we had literally NO TE's at that point, the move made sense.

Glenn would have been nice, but I dunno if it was the better pick, even if Fleener is a bust. The upside to Fleener is incredible.

I also think that at that time, the front office had more faith in it's offensive line unit than it really should have, and they didn't see it as the most pressing of needs.

Yeah, I kinda' saw the issue with the O line from a mile away. It's not like teams were tripping over themselves trying to sign McGlynn and Justice (although Satele may turn out well in the long term).

What people tend to forget about Stanford's offense, though, was that they had one of the best (if not THE best) offensive lines in the college football, particularly with DeCastro and Martin getting drafted really high. That probably accounted for Stanford's success more than the TEs did.

[BrentMc11]

Nobody mentioned Dominique Jones...Mr Free-bee from the AFL.....hoping you noticed him taking a LB 10 yards down with a block on one of the better DB runs of the year. Also the run and catch.

Jones seems to be on the field on some big plays IMO...it is called heart...and I love Allen...and Fleener will be here for years! 1-2 going into the bye bye week! :coltsfb:

Arians is 4-ever about TE sets....we have 3 pretty good ones....and practice squad has another (not a fan Kyle Miller)

[Gavin]

???? sarcasm???? Please say yes Gavin.

while he was Pittsburghs O Coordinator from '04 to '06 Heath Miller had 39 catches in '05 and in '06 he had 34 catches but 11 touchdowns in those two years combined so they were targed some but not a big part of the offense (not sure what the Tight Ends stats were in '04

[John Waylon]

When you add crap on top of crap, what do you have????? We had a horrible o-line last season and really didn't add any better players to it but we expected them to somehow magically play better than last year.

Yeah, because we signed them expecting them to be crap....

Ok, so to try and avoid "blind faith" because it's obviously a bad thing, who was out there we should have went after? Don't talk draft, that is the ultimate show of blind faith.

I never thought I would have to explain this, but the world takes us to funny places all the time...

Teams don't sign players they expect to be crap. They sign players they expect to come in and contribute.

[PrincetonTiger]

Nobody mentioned Dominique Jones...Mr Free-bee from the AFL.....hoping you noticed him taking a LB 10 yards down with a block on one of the better DB runs of the year. Also the run and catch.

Jones seems to be on the field on some big plays IMO...it is called heart...and I love Allen...and Fleener will be here for years! 1-2 going into the bye bye week! :coltsfb:

Arians is 4-ever about TE sets....we have 3 pretty good ones....and practice squad has another (not a fan Kyle Miller)

I forgot about Jones.

[deedub75]

Yeah, I kinda' saw the issue with the O line from a mile away. It's not like teams were tripping over themselves trying to sign McGlynn and Justice (although Satele may turn out well in the long term).

What people tend to forget about Stanford's offense, though, was that they had one of the best (if not THE best) offensive lines in the college football, particularly with DeCastro and Martin getting drafted really high. That probably accounted for Stanford's success more than the TEs did.

Stanford had a very good running game. They ran about 60% of the time which really opened up the offense for Luck and Fleener. How can Grigson and Pagano run a Stanford style offense with no o-line or running game?

[deedub75]

Yeah, because we signed them expecting them to be crap....

Ok, so to try and avoid "blind faith" because it's obviously a bad thing, who was out there we should have went after? Don't talk draft, that is the ultimate show of blind faith.

I never thought I would have to explain this, but the world takes us to funny places all the time...

Teams don't sign players they expect to be crap. They sign players they expect to come in and contribute.

Teams may not sign players expecting them to be crap but yet crap players are signed all of the time. They sign players that they know are crap and expect them not to play like crap anymore.

Someone made a comment that they thought we had a good o-line before the draft and I don't see how that's possible when no good players were really added.

[Boiler_Colt]

He's a rookie. Gronk wasn't all that great as a rookie and Graham barely played. Give him time.

[haseo15]

Stanford had a very good running game. They ran about 60% of the time which really opened up the offense for Luck and Fleener. How can Grigson and Pagano run a Stanford style offense with no o-line or running game?

Exactly Luck does not have time to make multiple reads on plays because our line is just so bad. Give them a few years and the offense will be really good.