Moves that set us back

[chad72]

These are the kinds of deals I hate to see criticized in hindsight. Two players that were playing well at the time, who were good fits for our schemes. I do think Hayden was overpaid a bit, but Brackett's contract wasn't that big, we didn't pay him very much of it, and it will be off the books this year. What hurt more than the contracts were the fact that the players missed a ton of games in the years immediately following the contracts. Bob Sanders goes in that category as well, although he was obviously much better when healthy than either Hayden or Brackett.

Hayden's contract was his second one, right after his rookie contract, I was fine with that since it was a top 10 CB money but not top 5 CB money but like Marlin Jackson, he kept getting injured. However, Brackett's was his third and they definitely overpaid for him right off the bat with top 3 MLB money. Bob Sanders was not overpaid at that time, he just overstayed by a year at least.

[throwing BBZ]

They didn't mistreat any of those guys. Marvin Harrison was offered a reduced salary contract rather than just being released; he refused, and hasn't played football since.

Bob Sanders was made the highest paid safety in NFL history, and then missed 41 of the next 48 games. Keeping him on the roster for so long was the exact opposite of mistreatment.

Edgerrin James was highly overpaid for a year before we let him leave in free agency. And he signed with the Cardinals for far more than he should have been given as an older back who had been playing without breakaway speed for three seasons already.

Letting Garcon walk was a free agency defection. Nothing to do about than other than overpay him, which is the complaint people have about a lot of the free agents we've kept over the years.

Addai is still without a job after failing his physical with the Patriots in camp. How is he talented?

Clark was highly overpaid.

It's as if you expect these players to be coddled and wrapped in silk. Sometimes you make decisions for the good of the team, and it means cutting ties with good people. Many of the moves you're complaining about were a year or two too late. It's amazing that you would refer to any of those players as having been mistreated.

Superman was kidding. Noone is that ......!

[Jindrake]

set us back now? not taking an O Lineman earlier in the draft such as RG and RT while thinking that Mcglynn and Justice were good enough to start for one year (yes I know it was a low level move thats a stop gap but there were better stop gap O Linemen out there and still is)

Keep beating that drum it isn't like it is getting old yet

[Gavin]

Keeping Freeney and not spending his Big $$$ in the biggest FA Market ever.

I doubt you know better than Grigson who to sign as stop gap OL. You presume people were willing to come here for the $$$ You would offer. Unknown.

well if you back, I obviously called the Justice and Mcglynn signing a waste as stop gap players and I have yet to be proven wrong on that 1 except I will give credit where its due, Mcglynn did make a good pull block that sprung Donald Brown for 18 yards vs the Bears other then that, Last I checked I never said I knew better then Grigson he obviously has access to things I dont see at practices but I do know a good block when I see 1 and they are very few and far between right now when it comes between Justice, Mcglynn and Olsen

[Gavin]

Keep beating that drum it isn't like it is getting old yet

the op asked what I thought set us back so I gave my opinion, dont like it? dont read it, dont respond to it

[Jindrake]

the op asked what I thought set us back so I gave my opinion, dont like it? dont read it, dont respond to it

It isn't that do you think saying that in every thread that gets started is a bit much you made your point and everyone understands where you stand it just gets old seeing the same thing posted in every thread by you. Also the part about not reading it you can lose you attitude on that as well.

[Gavin]

Keep beating that drum it isn't like it is getting old yet

since when do you know how long I been talking about Mcglynn and Justice? you have been a member for what? a week or less? I suppose your just joining the crowd with your "beating that drum" comment

[Gavin]

It isn't that do you think saying that in every thread that gets started is a bit much you made your point and everyone understands where you stand it just gets old seeing the same thing posted in every thread by you. Also the part about not reading it you can lose you attitude on that as well.

you mean the same attitude you gave me?

[Gavin]

anyway moving on, I gave my opinion, sorry for the off topic posts everyone

[Jindrake]

since when do you know how long I been talking about Mcglynn and Justice? you have been a member for what? a week or less? I suppose your just joining the crowd with your "beating that drum" comment

Actually I have been a member for a while I just choose to read and usually not get involved but you ignorance on the matter of when you bring up the same thing in almost ever topic even if it doesn't pertain to the thread or not and I also know I am not the only one that has confronted you on it either.

[Superman]

Hayden's contract was his second one, right after his rookie contract, I was fine with that since it was a top 10 CB money but not top 5 CB money but like Marlin Jackson, he kept getting injured. However, Brackett's was his third and they definitely overpaid for him right off the bat with top 3 MLB money. Bob Sanders was not overpaid at that time, he just overstayed by a year at least.

Brackett's wasn't top three MLB money. I don't even think it was close. He got five years, $33 million. Dansby signed that same year for five years, $43 million. Derrick Johnson got five years, $34 million later that year. Demeco Ryans got six years, $48 million that year. Willis got five years, $50 million. That doesn't include the long-time top notch guys like Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher.

Also worth considering is that Brackett's contract was structured in a way to keep the money on the back end. And we wound up not paying him very much of it. Personally, I was thinking three years, $15 million, but I don't think that would have gotten it done, nor do I think it would have allowed us to shield as much from the cap.

The real problem with Brackett's contract is that we didn't draft James Laurinitis the year before. We drafted Donald Brown. That would have allowed us to let Brackett walk.

[Gavin]

Actually I have been a member for a while I just choose to read and usually not get involved but you ignorance on the matter of when you bring up the same thing in almost ever topic even if it doesn't pertain to the thread or not and I also know I am not the only one that has confronted you on it either.

yeah apologies on that I see that says September 2011 and not 2012 when you joined

[indy1888]

Bad pick.

Bad decision.

These are the kinds of deals I hate to see criticized in hindsight. Two players that were playing well at the time, who were good fits for our schemes. I do think Hayden was overpaid a bit, but Brackett's contract wasn't that big, we didn't pay him very much of it, and it will be off the books this year. What hurt more than the contracts were the fact that the players missed a ton of games in the years immediately following the contracts. Bob Sanders goes in that category as well, although he was obviously much better when healthy than either Hayden or Brackett.

We resigned Lilja instead of Scott, because Scott wanted more money. He didn't get it; he went to Tennessee for the same money we offered him. I don't blame our front office for that.

What's ironic is that Lilja wound up missing the entire season after we resigned him, then he had a subpar year the next season. And now, we complain about releasing him. He was overpaid, he wasn't playing well, and he had significant injury concerns. I wish we had given Scott a little more and let Lilja walk, but this was a sticky situation.

Kind of agree. But would make a bigger case for Mike Peterson, and maybe even Marcus Washington.

Cato June was awful.

A lot of people were complaining about the Lilja release right after it happened. It was a move that made little sense. He was still a good lineman who went to the probowl the very next season after being released and is still starting for the Chiefs i believe. What really makes the move completely *ic though was the fact that they had nobody to replace him. Then they went out and signed 2 castoffs with more injury concerns then Lilja himself who were absolutely terrible and didn't even make it out of camp. So they were apparently so worried about Lilja's health (even though he played all 16 games), that they felt the solution was to bring in more injured lineman who weren't as good. That was an absurd move and sums up nicely the last few years of Polian's butchering of this team.

[Superman]

A lot of people were complaining about the Lilja release right after it happened. It was a move that made little sense. He was still a good lineman who went to the probowl the very next season after being released and is still starting for the Chiefs i believe. What really makes the move completely *ic though was the fact that they had nobody to replace him. Then they went out and signed 2 castoffs with more injury concerns then Lilja himself who were absolutely terrible and didn't even make it out of camp. So they were apparently so worried about Lilja's health (even though he played all 16 games), that they felt the solution was to bring in more injured lineman who weren't as good. That was an absurd move and sums up nicely the last few years of Polian's butchering of this team.

I know a lot of people didn't like the Lilja release. Called it a scapegoat move, and maybe it was. I don't recall Lilja going to the Pro Bowl, though, and if he did, it was as a deep alternate. I'm pretty sure that he didn't go, though. He was part of a pretty good line in 2007, but he's never been all that good himself.

The biggest problem is that we should have kept Scott instead.

[indy1888]

I know a lot of people didn't like the Lilja release. Called it a scapegoat move, and maybe it was. I don't recall Lilja going to the Pro Bowl, though, and if he did, it was as a deep alternate. I'm pretty sure that he didn't go, though. He was part of a pretty good line in 2007, but he's never been all that good himself.

The biggest problem is that we should have kept Scott instead.

You may be right, i do remember though that he was in the discussion for the pro bowl that year and did make several All pro teams from different publications. Peter King had him as an all pro i think.

Maybe we should have kept Scott, but that doesn't mean Polian cutting Lilja for a bunch of nobodies made any sense or was the right thing to do.

[1959Colts]

The trade for Fredd Young was the worst trade in the history of pro sports

[21isSuperman]

Agree with everything here, except the Jim Caldwell thing. As far as I can remember he took us to SB. There was no guarantee that Dungy would have taken us to SB back to back.

He did, but as we have seen, it wasn't thanks to his brilliant coaching. I tried defending him for a while on here saying that he did take that team to the Super Bowl. But when your quarterback goes down and you go from Super Bowl contender to worst team in the league, your coach isn't doing much. I think we made the Super Bowl because we had Peyton. With Peyton, the defense was allowed to play the way it was built to play, and that's with a lead. So our team was complete and able to play how they were built. Coaching, in my opinion, had very little with us making it to the Super Bowl that year and in fact, poor coaching would be one reason why we lost that game if you ask me.

[GoColts8818]

The trade for Fredd Young was the worst trade in the history of pro sports

What the Vikings gave up for Walker still take the cake on that one.

[GoColts8818]

in order...

1. Mistreating of Peyton Manning

2. Mistreating of Marvin Harrison

3. Mistreating of Bob Sanders

4. Mistreating of Marshall Faulk

5. Mistreating of Edgerrin James

6. Letting go of a slew of talented players in 2012 (Garcon, Saturday, Clark, Addai etc.)

there are many more mistreatment of players we did, but these are on the top of my list.

I am just going to try to add to what others have been trying to tell you about this list because no one on this list was mistreated.

1. Peyton Manning was paid how much money not to play a single down last year when the Colts could have put him on IR? I know we released him but let's be honest Peyton Manning wasn't pleading with Irsay to let him stay here. BOTH sides agreed that releasing him was the best thing to do for ALL parties involved. Also the Colts offered him a chance to say good bye how many released players are given that chance? I can all but promise you the Colts will welcome him back with open arms at the end of his career to let him retire a Colt and they will retire his number and put him in the Ring of Honor. If that's mistreating someone I really hope someone will mistreat me!

2. Marvin Harrison never played again in the NFL when he was released. Despite that the Colts offered him a chance to stay at a reduced salary. So they were pretty much wiling to pay a guy that in the rest of the NFL's mind was "done". Two years later when Marvin was on the sidelines of the Eagles game and the Colts were in need of a WR and some Colts were floating signing Marvin Polian shot it down by saying he joked with Marvin on the sideline about needing him and Marvin telling him he had "one series" left in him. Meaning he was done.

3. The Colts gave Bob Sanders every chance in the world to stay healthy and let them keep him. He played three games in two years for the Colts at the end of his time here and just in 11 games in his last four here after signing his contract. They had to move on to him because his contract was getting ready to explode. Since then he went to the Chargers where he played all of what two games before he was on IR and is now out of the NFL.

4. Faulk wanted out of Indianapolis not because of how the Colts treated him but if you listen to him because of how the people of Indianapolis treated him. If anything they gave him exactly what he wanted and last time I checked giving someone what they wanted isn't mistreating them.

5. We paid him a boat load of money the last year he was here and offered him money to stay after that. He choose to leave for more money. Despite the fact he walked away from the team Irsay still gave him a Super Bowl ring from a team he was not apart of. Have you ever heard of an owner doing that for a player who was still playing in the NFL but not on the team's roster that won a Super Bowl? The Colts will be placing him into the Ring of Honor later this season. Pretty hard to argue he was mistreated.

6. Again we did not let Garcon go. We offered him a contract and he choose to leave for more money. Saturday the samething. He was a free agent he signed some place else. That was his choice not the teams. Addai is now out of the NFL and the Colts gave him a contract the year before that many felt he should not have been given and he didn't exactly back it up with his performance last year. As for Clark again he got caught not living up to his contract. He's probably the closest to mistreated on your list that you are going to come. Even so he was honored with a "thank you" banner when he was released. Frankly in a league that cuts highly priced vets who don't live up to their contracts all the team the Colts did more to honors theirs than most teams do.

Just because fans happen to like guys and they are let go or traded to another team or if they leave as a free agent does not mean they were mistreated. It's a business the players know that and accept that this is part of this. Being mistreated would be if the Colts were sending hurt guys out there to play hurt. That's being mistreated. More specificity to relate this to the thread's topic which is talking about moves that set us back it's hard to argue that many of these moves really set the Colts back. The jury is still out on releasing the players we did last season but frankly if we win more than two games this season you can argue the Colts got better which would mean it wasn't a set back.

No one likes to see their favorite players leave but if you are a fan of a NFL team get used to it. Very rarely does a player have the story book ending to his career that a guy like John Elway got to have where a guy got to spend his whole career with one team and got to walk away on top rather than becoming a shell of his former self and just because they don't get to leave like that does not mean they were mistreated.

[unitaswestand]

Good topic. Trading Bert Jones and with the pick drafting Art Schlichter. More recently, I think ignoring the run game and working on the offensive line has just been a killer. We probably should have had a few more rings. Amazing how many playoffs games we lost. I think someone posted the office averaged like 17 points per playoff game. That is pretty bad.

[Jason_]

Glenn told them he was gonna retire so they talked him in to staying thru camp so they drafted ugoh know his was gonna retire

There was nothing said that year about Glenn retiring until long after the draft. When the draft occurred, they drafted Ugoh with the intention of having him learn for a year as a backup and to take over the starting role the following year when Tarik would either retire or not be re-signed to a new contract. It wasn't until much closer to training camp that Tarik announced he'd lost his passion for football and decided to retire. They did talk him into staying through training camp, but that was long after Ugoh was drafted.

In that case, Polian did what he thought was best in trying to shore up the offensive line by drafting a LT that could learn from Tarik for a year before taking over as the starter. Ugoh didn't work out for whatever reason..whether he didn't have the passion to become the best of the best or because his confidence was shot after being thrust into the starting lineup earlier than planned. Either way, I don't fault them for making the choice to draft him if they thought because they thought he was the only OT left that they felt could develop into an all-pro LT. Maybe their scouting was way off on him or maybe he fooled them into thinking he had the necessary passion when really he did not. Who knows..

[Coffeedrinker]

I think t.glenn retiring early at only 31 which cause us to draft ugho an we never bin the same since

Accept that is not what happened. The Colts drafted Ugoh before Glenn retired. Glenn showed up at camp over-weight and decided he did not want to go through the process of getting down to the team mandated weight so he retired.

The Colts did not draft Ugoh because Glenn retired. The plan was to have Ugoh learn behind Glenn for a year or two and then take over the starting position.

[smittywerb]

Bad pick.

Bad decision.

These are the kinds of deals I hate to see criticized in hindsight. Two players that were playing well at the time, who were good fits for our schemes. I do think Hayden was overpaid a bit, but Brackett's contract wasn't that big, we didn't pay him very much of it, and it will be off the books this year. What hurt more than the contracts were the fact that the players missed a ton of games in the years immediately following the contracts. Bob Sanders goes in that category as well, although he was obviously much better when healthy than either Hayden or Brackett.

We resigned Lilja instead of Scott, because Scott wanted more money. He didn't get it; he went to Tennessee for the same money we offered him. I don't blame our front office for that.

What's ironic is that Lilja wound up missing the entire season after we resigned him, then he had a subpar year the next season. And now, we complain about releasing him. He was overpaid, he wasn't playing well, and he had significant injury concerns. I wish we had given Scott a little more and let Lilja walk, but this was a sticky situation.

Kind of agree. But would make a bigger case for Mike Peterson, and maybe even Marcus Washington.

Cato June was awful.

- We overpaid for Manning. Manning came out and said he was willing to take a pay cut and earn way less money so that it can be used to build a team around him. Our owner didn't listen and still paid the man, I'm pretty sure PM is not going to turn it down. Regardless if PM could play or not, that contract would have hindered us in the long run. If it was such a good contract, why is he not here?

- Kelvin & Gary: I was ALWAYS suspect about this defense because I knew that the defense played the way it did (besides 2006 playoffs) because of the way Peyton was playing. The Kelvin contract was crazy and Gary's was overpaying, not by much, but still too much for him. So maybe I have bias towards this issue but I think only maybe 3 players on our defense deserve to be overpaid to keep. I didn't like the contracts, and seeing as they are no longer with us my hunch was right.

- Lilja, we should have resigned again. He had his ups and down but you just don't let a OL with SOME skill walk because it will be even harder to find another one with SOME skill, hence our situation now. Scott, this is one of the players we should have given a little more money. We were successful on offense because at that time PM had all day to throw because he had one of the best pass blocking lines in the game, gotta spend the money to be the best. We can't just let OL who shown they can play go for nothing. Trust me, I know that PM is an OL's best friend, but there's no denying how good our line was.

- I'm actually in the minority when it comes to Cato. Cato June wasn't a typical LB for us, but he is/was a good LB. He's physical, he's a run-stopping LB. He gets burnt but he's one of those dirty LB's. I'm just saying this hurt us because we have yet to replace him.

[smittywerb]

A lot of people were complaining about the Lilja release right after it happened. It was a move that made little sense. He was still a good lineman who went to the probowl the very next season after being released and is still starting for the Chiefs i believe. What really makes the move completely *ic though was the fact that they had nobody to replace him. Then they went out and signed 2 castoffs with more injury concerns then Lilja himself who were absolutely terrible and didn't even make it out of camp. So they were apparently so worried about Lilja's health (even though he played all 16 games), that they felt the solution was to bring in more injured lineman who weren't as good. That was an absurd move and sums up nicely the last few years of Polian's butchering of this team.

My point EXACTLY! If you're going to let go talent, ESPECIALLY in the OL, then you better have some talent coming back. If you're going to pay for players, it wouldn't hurt to spend a lot of money on the OL.

[number28]

I am just going to try to add to what others have been trying to tell you about this list because no one on this list was mistreated.

1. Peyton Manning was paid how much money not to play a single down last year when the Colts could have put him on IR? I know we released him but let's be honest Peyton Manning wasn't pleading with Irsay to let him stay here. BOTH sides agreed that releasing him was the best thing to do for ALL parties involved. Also the Colts offered him a chance to say good bye how many released players are given that chance? I can all but promise you the Colts will welcome him back with open arms at the end of his career to let him retire a Colt and they will retire his number and put him in the Ring of Honor. If that's mistreating someone I really hope someone will mistreat me!

2. Marvin Harrison never played again in the NFL when he was released. Despite that the Colts offered him a chance to stay at a reduced salary. So they were pretty much wiling to pay a guy that in the rest of the NFL's mind was "done". Two years later when Marvin was on the sidelines of the Eagles game and the Colts were in need of a WR and some Colts were floating signing Marvin Polian shot it down by saying he joked with Marvin on the sideline about needing him and Marvin telling him he had "one series" left in him. Meaning he was done.

3. The Colts gave Bob Sanders every chance in the world to stay healthy and let them keep him. He played three games in two years for the Colts at the end of his time here and just in 11 games in his last four here after signing his contract. They had to move on to him because his contract was getting ready to explode. Since then he went to the Chargers where he played all of what two games before he was on IR and is now out of the NFL.

4. Faulk wanted out of Indianapolis not because of how the Colts treated him but if you listen to him because of how the people of Indianapolis treated him. If anything they gave him exactly what he wanted and last time I checked giving someone what they wanted isn't mistreating them.

5. We paid him a boat load of money the last year he was here and offered him money to stay after that. He choose to leave for more money. Despite the fact he walked away from the team Irsay still gave him a Super Bowl ring from a team he was not apart of. Have you ever heard of an owner doing that for a player who was still playing in the NFL but not on the team's roster that won a Super Bowl? The Colts will be placing him into the Ring of Honor later this season. Pretty hard to argue he was mistreated.

6. Again we did not let Garcon go. We offered him a contract and he choose to leave for more money. Saturday the samething. He was a free agent he signed some place else. That was his choice not the teams. Addai is now out of the NFL and the Colts gave him a contract the year before that many felt he should not have been given and he didn't exactly back it up with his performance last year. As for Clark again he got caught not living up to his contract. He's probably the closest to mistreated on your list that you are going to come. Even so he was honored with a "thank you" banner when he was released. Frankly in a league that cuts highly priced vets who don't live up to their contracts all the team the Colts did more to honors theirs than most teams do.

Just because fans happen to like guys and they are let go or traded to another team or if they leave as a free agent does not mean they were mistreated. It's a business the players know that and accept that this is part of this. Being mistreated would be if the Colts were sending hurt guys out there to play hurt. That's being mistreated. More specificity to relate this to the thread's topic which is talking about moves that set us back it's hard to argue that many of these moves really set the Colts back. The jury is still out on releasing the players we did last season but frankly if we win more than two games this season you can argue the Colts got better which would mean it wasn't a set back.

No one likes to see their favorite players leave but if you are a fan of a NFL team get used to it. Very rarely does a player have the story book ending to his career that a guy like John Elway got to have where a guy got to spend his whole career with one team and got to walk away on top rather than becoming a shell of his former self and just because they don't get to leave like that does not mean they were mistreated.

I guess mistreated is a harsh term. Most fans don't look into what the front office does with the money etc.

when we see star players released, that ticked us off.

that's what I mean by mistreated

[GoColts8818]

I guess mistreated is a harsh term. Most fans don't look into what the front office does with the money etc.

when we see star players released, that ticked us off.

that's what I mean by mistreated

Honestly I think most fans understood most of those players being released or aloud to leave as free agents and it was a small number of fans who were ticked off outside of Peyton and even then there was a very large number of fans who understood it.