Is Indy Loosing Combine due to Pence signing RFRA?

[radiogirl]

https://www.facebook.com/smileyradioshow?fref=ts

 

It looks like they discussed it already on the Smiley Morning Show.  

My bad.  Shows you how awake I am in the mornings.  Good piece, though.  They even use the analogy about being colts fans!

[jvan1973]

But Narco..that was the motivation behind the law and everyone knows it..

Its a backlash against the same sex marriage movement...

The NFL, NBA and NCAA have little or nothing to do with that but the mistake is:

The Governor forced them to take a side and there's only one side those organiozatins can take, see?

..Its an unintended consequence..that someone on his staff should have forseen.

The NBA, NFL and NCAA will face protests at their events..if they side with the Governor

Take a half an hour and actually read the law

[BrentMc11]

My bad.  Shows you how awake I am in the mornings.  Good piece, though.  They even use the analogy about being colts fans!

Well, I still don't go crazy over it all.  I just looked at Pence's quote in the Star.  Kind of my sentiments from above.

 

He also mentions "Hoosier Hospitality" being the "Real Deal" here.

 

http://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/columnists/tim-swarens/2015/03/28/swarens-gov-mike-pence-push-clarification-religious-freedom-law/70611906/

[NFLfan]

Its tough to clarify this without repealing it....Folks are unlikely to let this go..Brent....

Lets be real...the goal is selective exclusion and the NCAA, NBA and NFL will consistently be confronted with since they are

eternally about inclusion...The Gov gave them no choics but to come out against him

Governor Pence said repeatedly there was no one incident or act which spurred on this law.

Which means to me he had time to look into the unintended consequences...before he signed it

Indianapolis is one of the biggest sports 'convention' towns in the nation.

lets see if Mr. Pence can be more adept getting his state out of this controversy than he was getting them into it.

Thank you (and several others here) for all this information and your viewpoints. Last night, I encouraged one of the mods to keep this thread open, as it is good for people to talk and process something like this. Thanks also to Scooter for starting the thread.

While I believe the outrage will die down, as all of them eventually do, I believe this is an important matter and it is good to make your voices heard. Inclusion is important. Diversity of opinion is also good.

[oldunclemark]

Once 1 business is shut down due to this, there are going to be heads rolling.  The people of Indiana will not let someone treat people poorly.  Most travelers come back because of the people, not a law.  As Adonis said, 19 other states have such a law.  20 now.

Its one of those cookie cutter programmed laws that been suggested by the Heritage Foundation...

...and 19 have similar laws..and they will all face a constutional test. It doenst allow people to be treated differently because of

religious beliefs......It only allows those beliefs

We all know there's a lot of groups that will always publicize something like this...and he forced the NCAA, NFL and NBA to side with the law or against he. He should have forseen that.

I think Gov. Pence thought that no one outside of Indiana would notice..(the private bill signing)..a bill he had to know was controversial at best. We're so multi-media now that cant ever happen. The Gov forced Indiana businesses to defend themselves..

The Pacers have sent me 2 notes already saying that they don't know anything about anything.

[Jay Kirk]

Its one of those cookie cutter programmed laws that been suggested by the Heritage Foundation...

...and 19 have similar laws..and they will all face a constutional test. It doenst allow people to be treated differently because of

religious beliefs......It only allows those beliefs

We all know there's a lot of groups that will always publicize something like this...and he forced the NCAA, NFL and NBA to side with the law or against he. He should have forseen that.

I think Gov. Pence thought that no one outside of Indiana would notice..(the private bill signing)..a bill he had to know was controversial at best. We're so multi-media now that cant ever happen. The Gov forced Indiana businesses to defend themselves..

The Pacers have sent me 2 notes already saying that they don't know anything about anything.

Good for the Pacers .   The way it should be stay out of it.

[Narcosys]

He's moonwalking like Michael Jackson...and he has to...

The governor in Indiana is so insulated because we're virtually a 1-party state.

He didn't have any idea about the impact of the reason behind this law. No clue

there will be some anxious phone calls this weekend.

I'm sure the NFL, NBA and NCAA have all called and said....'You need to fix this'

He's not moonwalking, he's enlightening the ignorant. So many other states have this law, yet nobody is leaving or boycotting them.

[BrentMc11]

Its one of those cookie cutter programmed laws that been suggested by the Heritage Foundation...

...and 19 have similar laws..and they will all face a constutional test. It doenst allow people to be treated differently because of

religious beliefs......It only allows those beliefs

We all know there's a lot of groups that will always publicize something like this...and he forced the NCAA, NFL and NBA to side with the law or against he. He should have forseen that.

I think Gov. Pence thought that no one outside of Indiana would notice..(the private bill signing)..a bill he had to know was controversial at best. We're so multi-media now that cant ever happen. The Gov forced Indiana businesses to defend themselves..

The Pacers have sent me 2 notes already saying that they don't know anything about anything.

I guess that is why our kids go to Heritage Christian  

 

All kidding aside, Pence knew what he was doing, but did not expect the firestorm.  It has been taken 'literally' by the media.  That is what media does these days.  Sensationalism at it's finest.

[BrentMc11]

Good for the Pacers .   The way it should be stay out of it.

Herb Simon knows discrimination.  He has lived it.  A truly great man.

[Jay Kirk]

I guess that is why our kids go to Heritage Christian

 

All kidding aside, Pence knew what he was doing, but did not expect the firestorm.  It has been taken 'literally' by the media.  That is what media does these days.  Sensationalism at it's finest.

Agreed on all counts.

[radiogirl]

Thank you (and several others here) for all this information and your viewpoints. Last night, I encouraged one of the mods to keep this thread open, as it is good for people to talk and process something like this. Thanks also to Scooter for starting the thread.

While I believe the outrage will die down, as all of them eventually do, I believe this is an important matter and it is good to make your voices heard. Inclusion is important. Diversity of opinion is also good.

Great post, NFLfan!

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Well, I still don't go crazy over it all.  I just looked at Pence's quote in the Star.  Kind of my sentiments from above.

 

He also mentions "Hoosier Hospitality" being the "Real Deal" here.

 

http://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/columnists/tim-swarens/2015/03/28/swarens-gov-mike-pence-push-clarification-religious-freedom-law/70611906/

 Thank You for that an interesting read .

 

Perception is reality & bad press is bad press this has been a costly mistake how ever harmless it proves to be .

 

Indiana is all about Sports NBA NFL WNBA NCAA  Superbowls & Conventions I expect this will be resolved very quickly .

[BrentMc11]

 Thank You for that an interesting read .

 

Perception is reality & bad press is bad press this has been a costly mistake how ever harmless it proves to be .

 

Indiana is all about Sports NBA NFL WNBA NCAA  Superbowls & Conventions I expect this will be resolved very quickly .

I did not learn to 'use' sensationalism at the IU School of Journalism Adonis.  Today's media nauseates me.

 

I am glad you liked the article

[oldunclemark]

Take a half an hour and actually read the law

I have...you should. too.

.....First..its on debatable constutional ground because it allows (through the wording) people to be treated differently because of beliefs. But that's an issue for the courts to decide.

Its a spinoff of the Hobby Lobby ObamaCare decision case where the conservative arts and crafts franchise didn't want to pay for

abortion benefits for employees, citing their religious convictions...but this bill Governor Pence signed extends that thought to

refusing service, not benefits../That's going to be a problem.

That's a thought that all pro sports teams have to immediately distance themselves from..The Pacers , because they are in Mike Pence's state and he insists this law isn't based on any one particular incident, ...they (and hundreds of other businesses) now have to declare themselves pro or con in the public eye.

....All I'm saying is: The Governor should have forseen this if, as he claims, there was no one incident which spawned this law.

Obviously, there was...but officialy he's on record as saying there wasn't. If so..he had time to look at all the consequences instead of now dealing with what I guess you'd call collateral image damage.

Boycotts are the way of the world and our governor just inadvertently invited them to our state.

I'm sure he's working to patch the damage as we speak.

[oldunclemark]

Good for the Pacers .   The way it should be stay out of it.

The Pacers say 'Our name is Bennett..and we aint in it!!!"

[Jay Kirk]

Herb Simon knows discrimination.  He has lived it.  A truly great man.

Outta likes but will come back on this fact.

[Jay Kirk]

The Pacers say 'Our name is Bennett..and we aint in it!!!"

Lol gotta come back on this one when my LIKES return.

[NFLfan]

Great post, NFLfan!

Thank you. You have posted some great ones too. I "liked" at least one but I may be in danger of running out of likes today for the very first time. I am saving some for others.

[nburgmei]

It looks like GA is having similar problems with their RFRA. Up until a few days ago it looked like it would be a shoe-in. However, theirs has now been tabled. It was tabled when a Republican senator introduced an anti-discrimination amendment. This was not viewed favorably by the representative's cohort. So...in GA it's not passing at the moment.

 

I haven't heard any statements from any groups about GA, but that might be because everyone is focused on IN. I can't imagine that Atlanta is an especially desirable Superbowl venue, but all I know about it is its ridiculous traffic. Being a bit disconnected from GA, has anyone around here with more of a connection heard anything? Any word from any big sports organizations?

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I did not learn to 'use' sensationalism at the IU School of Journalism Adonis.  Today's media nauseates me.

 

I am glad you liked the article

 

Todays media nauseates many of us filtering thru the different outlets views & attempts to report in a manner than can be misleading to further personal agendas are disheartening .

[Jay Kirk]

Todays media nauseates many of us filtering thru the different outlets views & attempts to report in a manner than can be misleading to further personal agendas are disheartening .

Very and many times we are not getting but fractions of truth.   This has been going on for years and gets worse everyday. So who do you believe ? News was supposed to be about reporting facts not pushing an agenda.Ive got almost 0 trust in news organizations anymore.

[oldunclemark]

I hope the Gov. can smooth things over because I'd like to have the Super and the NCAA Finals back again (after next week)

..and the law doesn't have any effect I can see on any type of sporting event

[nburgmei]

He's bit moonwalking, he's enlightening the ignorant. So many other states have this law, yet nobody is leaving or boycotting them.

This is something I wondered about at first. Why is IN getting so much attention? The only other state that I am aware of that got this kind of attention is Arizona and their governor did the wise thing and vetoed the bill before it was taken to the next level. However, when you look at the dates in which these other RFRAs were enacted, it's pretty easy to find the likely answers. 1) Sexual orientation discrimination was not on the top of everyone's list in the 90s or even the early-mid 2000s. 2) Logistically, these groups can't boycott themselves out of every state with an RFRA.

 

The only three states with major NFL ties that have enacted RFRA laws since the changing of administrations are Louisiana, Tennessee, and Indiana. Arizona tried...failed. Georgia tried...seemingly failed. Louisiana and Tennessee both have NFL teams, but those were both passed fairly early in the current administration (2010 and 2009, respectively). I don't think the "movement" was quite in full swing yet. Everyone was busy arguing about Obamacare.

 

Illinois has one and no one seems to care. They passed theirs in 1998 and subsequently passed anti-discrimination laws to tie up the loose ends. They addressed the major issue people have with these bills.

 

Basically, most of the other laws are either older or have separate legislation clarifying the rules. They passed during a time when the NFL, NCAA, and other organizations couldn't have cared less. Now it matters. Now if they look like they're supportive of the states supporting these bills then they share the perceived black eye. Judging by Arizona and Indiana, I expect these groups to continue address these issues in any future states that try to enact RFRAs. 

[Jay Kirk]

HAHAHA!!!  I have way too many skeletons in my closet and a way too colorful past to EVER go into politics.  Plus, I have a problem keeping my mouth shut.  I probably ought to just stick with radio!  

Im with you on all counts exept radio.

[pgt_rob]

I have...you should. too.

.....First..its on debatable constutional ground because it allows (through the wording) people to be treated differently because of beliefs. But that's an issue for the courts to decide.

Its a spinoff of the Hobby Lobby ObamaCare decision case where the conservative arts and crafts franchise didn't want to pay for

abortion benefits for employees, citing their religious convictions...but this bill Governor Pence signed extends that thought to

refusing service, not benefits../That's going to be a problem.

That's a thought that all pro sports teams have to immediately distance themselves from..The Pacers , because they are in Mike Pence's state and he insists this law isn't based on any one particular incident, ...they (and hundreds of other businesses) now have to declare themselves pro or con in the public eye.

....All I'm saying is: The Governor should have forseen this if, as he claims, there was no one incident which spawned this law.

Obviously, there was...but officialy he's on record as saying there wasn't. If so..he had time to look at all the consequences instead of now dealing with what I guess you'd call collateral image damage.

Boycotts are the way of the world and our governor just inadvertently invited them to our state.

I'm sure he's working to patch the damage as we speak.

The law is only there to protect you from the government forcing something against your beliefs/views. It should be a good thing. It says nothing about individual discrimination against other individuals. That's what the media is twisting and it's totally incorrect. Read the law, it's literally 1 paragraph long with 2 paragraphs of definitions.

[Jay Kirk]

The law is only there to protect you from the government forcing something against your beliefs/views. It should be a good thing. It says nothing about individual discrimination against other individuals. That's what the media is twisting and it's totally incorrect. Read the law, it's literally 1 paragraph long with 2 paragraphs of definitions.

Yep

[RockThatBlue]

No

[RockThatBlue]

But Narco..that was the motivation behind the law and everyone knows it..

Its a backlash against the same sex marriage movement...

The NFL, NBA and NCAA have little or nothing to do with that but the mistake is:

The Governor forced them to take a side and there's only one side those organiozatins can take, see?

..Its an unintended consequence..that someone on his staff should have forseen.

The NBA, NFL and NCAA will face protests at their events..if they side with the Governor

Maybe read the bill before commenting on it. Just saying...

[scooter4910]

Thanks very much for the super users getting involved in the thread.....I thought it would just be a matter of before the topic was locked.

[Jay Kirk]

Thanks very much for the super users getting involved in the thread.....I thought it would just be a matter of before the topic was locked.

Most folks here , respect one another and its been good to discuss , but the minute some don't like what they see , they will try to ruffle feathers to get it shut down.

[southwest1]

EEEK!! no political, no political....you'll get my topic locked.

Actually, my concern was purely economical in scope & I didn't mention any party or elected official by name so I fail to see how my comment was in any way inflammatory or in violation of forum rules. 

 

It for merely a hypothetical for instance example of a potential problem. Nothing more; Nothing less Scooter. The citizens of Indianapolis are very kind & hardworking. I don't foresee a huge problem in my renter/landlord  example, but the possibility for discrimination however remote still exists. That was my only point. 

[Jay Kirk]

Actually, my concern was purely economical in scope & I didn't mention any party or elected official by name so I fail to see how my comment was in any way inflammatory or in violation of forum rules. 

 

It for merely a hypothetical for instance example of a potential problem. Nothing more; Nothing less Scooter. The citizens of Indianapolis are very kind & hardworking. I don't foresee a huge problem in my renter/landlord  example, but the possibility for discrimination however remote still exists. That was my only point. 

Lol Brother hope you didn't think I was referring to you in my previous statement .  You have always had respect for everyone in here and differing opinions.

[radiogirl]

Thank you. You have posted some great ones too. I "liked" at least one but I may be in danger of running out of likes today for the very first time. I am saving some for others.

I run out of likes any time I get on this site!  HA!  It's a touchy subject.  I'm glad you asked to keep it open.  But, it's an important one and one that's good to discuss and see the pros and cons in a respectful and positive manner.   I think all the great people on this site want what is best for all people and best for our state.  Thanks NFLfan!

[The Fish]

Minor prediction.

 

In general, enough people will forget this is an issue before long that the NFL doesn't need to say anything right now. IF there's some recourse that the NFL wants, if the law is misused or as bad as the critics say it is, they've probably said it in private all ready. Also the NFL has about half of it's teams in states with similar laws (not to mention the federal law)..

[radiogirl]

Thanks very much for the super users getting involved in the thread.....I thought it would just be a matter of before the topic was locked.

I'm glad you posted it Scooter!  I think it's been a very positive and intelligent discussion!

[southwest1]

Looks like there are some "clarifications" occurring...

http://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/columnists/tim-swarens/2015/03/28/swarens-gov-mike-pence-push-clarification-religious-freedom-law/70611906/

I find ironic how you claim other people on this forum are being "political" to use your terminology & yet you continue to post links discussing or clarifying the current governor's position on this new law now enacted. 

 

It's fine. I just find it strange how your posts on this subject could be considered neutral exactly. 

[southwest1]

Lol Brother hope you didn't think I was referring to you in my previous statement .  You have always had respect for everyone in here and differing opinions.

We are perfectly fine Jay. I respect you as well & I have no problems with you at all. We are cool brother. Trust me. 

[Narcosys]

This is something I wondered about at first. Why is IN getting so much attention? The only other state that I am aware of that got this kind of attention is Arizona and their governor did the wise thing and vetoed the bill before it was taken to the next level. However, when you look at the dates in which these other RFRAs were enacted, it's pretty easy to find the likely answers. 1) Sexual orientation discrimination was not on the top of everyone's list in the 90s or even the early-mid 2000s. 2) Logistically, these groups can't boycott themselves out of every state with an RFRA.

The only three states with major NFL ties that have enacted RFRA laws since the changing of administrations are Louisiana, Tennessee, and Indiana. Arizona tried...failed. Georgia tried...seemingly failed. Louisiana and Tennessee both have NFL teams, but those were both passed fairly early in the current administration (2010 and 2009, respectively). I don't think the "movement" was quite in full swing yet. Everyone was busy arguing about Obamacare.

Illinois has one and no one seems to care. They passed theirs in 1998 and subsequently passed anti-discrimination laws to tie up the loose ends. They addressed the major issue people have with these bills.

Basically, most of the other laws are either older or have separate legislation clarifying the rules. They passed during a time when the NFL, NCAA, and other organizations couldn't have cared less. Now it matters. Now if they look like they're supportive of the states supporting these bills then they share the perceived black eye. Judging by Arizona and Indiana, I expect these groups to continue address these issues in any future states that try to enact RFRAs.

So because they did it earlier means its ok? No, if they truly are about fair then they should be boycotting these other states.

[southwest1]

The law is only there to protect you from the government forcing something against your beliefs/views. It should be a good thing. It says nothing about individual discrimination against other individuals. That's what the media is twisting and it's totally incorrect. Read the law, it's literally 1 paragraph long with 2 paragraphs of definitions.

With any law, it's never really about the language at all, but the level of enforcement & how strict or loose that enforcement actually is. 

[jvan1973]

With any law, it's never really about the language at all, but the level of enforcement & how strict or loose that enforcement actually is.

Actually, they are all about the language. Lawyers pick apart laws everyday because of the language they contain