CBS/98.5 Sources: Under-inflated balls OK'd by refs pregame

[GoPats]

Posted this in another thread but didn't want to see it get lost in the mix: 

 

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/01/27/richs-sources-patriots-footballs-passed-referee-inspection-just-under-allowable-psi-level/

 

 

One thing that has been reported this last week, as we’ve been learning about how footballs are treated before a game is that before every game, a referee measured with a pressure gauge each football to see if the pressure in each one is between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI.

 

But that apparently isn’t always the case. As a matter of fact, from what I’ve been told, many times the refs don’t test the pressure of each ball with a gauge at all. Sometimes refs hold the ball, squeeze it, briefly inspect it, then sign off on it. Next ball. It’s never been a problem before. This is apparently a well known fact in the NFL.

 

 Now according to my sources, The Patriots turned in their footballs to the ref at a pressure just below the allowable PSI.

 

If it’s a situation where the refs DID use a gauge, the refs would see the balls were under inflated, and inflate them to the proper size. But in this case, the balls were approved and given back to the Patriots under-inflated.

 

 

This has been my question from day one. I realize we're talking "sources" here but that's all Mortensen had, too. It would explain the long, drawn-out nature of the NFL's investigation. 

 

It's funny if you listen to the actual clip from the radio. Fred Toucher is a Jets fan and isn't very good at hiding his dislike for the Patriots, lol... 

 

Again, not saying this is true... not much of anything regarding this story has been confirmed either way, though. Just an interesting twist to the plot. 

[Dustin]

This stemmed from a Boston based radio show. This isn't a reliable source. 

[GoPats]

This stemmed from a Boston based radio show. This isn't a reliable source. 

 

So it's beyond the realm of possibility that the pre-game ball check is a much less formal process than we've been lead to believe over the past 10 days? 

 

Honest question. 

[Dustin]

So it's beyond the realm of possibility that the pre-game ball check is a much less formal process than we've been lead to believe over the past 10 days? 

 

Honest question. 

 

No, it's not. But some Pats homer in Boston nobody has ever heard of saying "sources tell me the refs approved deflated balls" isn't going to convince me they did.

[BullsColtsFan1]

Heres the main thing that doesn't make sense to me.  0-12 Colts balls under/over flated, 11-12 of the Pats balls underflated Tom Brady said a few years back he prefers the ball to be underflated.  Something doesn't add up here.  If most all footballs are over/under flated why were 0-12 of the Colts balls not messed with?  If this isn't a problem then the league should change the writting of the rule, otherwise the Pats need pentalized.

[GoPats]

No, it's not. But some Pats homer in Boston nobody has ever heard of saying "sources tell me the refs approved deflated balls" isn't going to convince me they did.

 

Oh I didn't expect it to "convince" you or anyone else. I know it'd never be that easy.  ;)

 

I'm just raising possibilities here and questions that I've had from the very beginning. We all just want to know the truth, right? And how crazy would it be if this turns out to be what happened? 

 

Even as a local station, they're a CBS affiliate, and I don't think they would irresponsibly report something like this if the sources were, say, Willie McGinest and Tedy Bruschi. Not saying the sources are right, but there may be more to all of this than we've been told. 

[GoPats]

Heres the main thing that doesn't make sense to me.  0-12 Colts balls under/over flated, 11-12 of the Pats balls underflated Tom Brady said a few years back he prefers the ball to be underflated.  Something doesn't add up here.  If most all footballs are over/under flated why were 0-12 of the Colts balls not messed with?  If this isn't a problem then the league should change the writting of the rule, otherwise the Pats need pentalized.

 

Either way, if the balls were submitted under the acceptable PSI, then there's some responsibility that BB and TB have in it. Maybe they do this often, hoping that the balls aren't "'caught" and slip through the approval process. Maybe that's pretty common, I don't know. 

 

But if there's any truth to the article, then there was no deliberate deception, which is really the heart of the entire thing. No one's denied the balls were under, that's pretty much fact. It seems as though now other sources differ on how much they were under, and how many of 12 came up light. 

 

If Indy's footballs were similarly not checked with a gauge before the game, they probably started within the range and ended within the range as well. But you wouldn't know if someone "messed" with them because you don't have an actual PSI value from the pre-game process. To subtract "y" from "x" you need a value for "x." All we really know for sure is that they were measured with a gauge at halftime.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Posted this in another thread but didn't want to see it get lost in the mix: 

 

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/01/27/richs-sources-patriots-footballs-passed-referee-inspection-just-under-allowable-psi-level/

 

 

One thing that has been reported this last week, as we’ve been learning about how footballs are treated before a game is that before every game, a referee measured with a pressure gauge each football to see if the pressure in each one is between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI.

 

But that apparently isn’t always the case. As a matter of fact, from what I’ve been told, many times the refs don’t test the pressure of each ball with a gauge at all. Sometimes refs hold the ball, squeeze it, briefly inspect it, then sign off on it. Next ball. It’s never been a problem before. This is apparently a well known fact in the NFL.

 

 Now according to my sources, The Patriots turned in their footballs to the ref at a pressure just below the allowable PSI.

 

If it’s a situation where the refs DID use a gauge, the refs would see the balls were under inflated, and inflate them to the proper size. But in this case, the balls were approved and given back to the Patriots under-inflated.

 

 

This has been my question from day one. I realize we're talking "sources" here but that's all Mortensen had, too. It would explain the long, drawn-out nature of the NFL's investigation. 

 

It's funny if you listen to the actual clip from the radio. Fred Toucher is a Jets fan and isn't very good at hiding his dislike for the Patriots, lol... 

 

Again, not saying this is true... not much of anything regarding this story has been confirmed either way, though. Just an interesting twist to the plot. 

 

I have posted many articles saying they don't miss the gauge test, and Walt Anderson is by the book more than most others as well. It is not known fact official dust off their duty to maintain all the games balls via measurement.  Need a link that states and proves that they did blow it off.  Also Mortenson cited 'league sources' about the pre game measurement protocol being followed.  Not just a source. 

 

Later someone did cite just a source saying -

 

"One source described the league as "disappointed ... angry ... distraught" after spending considerable time on the findings earlier Tuesday. This guy does not attribute his sources as league sources, nor does your article.

[OffensivelyPC]

I find it hard to believe but can't really be dismissive about it.  One thing I would need answered then is, if the NFL knew before the game that it planned on investigating the patriots for deflated footballs, it makes no sense for the referees to not properly measure the (or accept below regulation levels of)  the football's internal pressure.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Either way, if the balls were submitted under the acceptable PSI, then there's some responsibility that BB and TB have in it. Maybe they do this often, hoping that the balls aren't "'caught" and slip through the approval process. Maybe that's pretty common, I don't know. 

 

But if there's any truth to the article, then there was no deliberate deception, which is really the heart of the entire thing. No one's denied the balls were under, that's pretty much fact. It seems as though now other sources differ on how much they were under, and how many of 12 came up light. 

 

If Indy's footballs were similarly not checked with a gauge before the game, they probably started within the range and ended within the range as well. But you wouldn't know if someone "messed" with them because you don't have an actual PSI value from the pre-game process. To subtract "y" from "x" you need a value for "x." All we really know for sure is that they were measured with a gauge at halftime.

 

I do not think it is an issue if a ball comes in too empty or full.  Refs are to let out air in overinflated balls, and pump up the underinflated balls. Then they're all good to go. That is why they are not to be just felt, and also they are guarded.  And if a Ref was to do a squeeze test, likely he'd choose th pre season game, not the AFCCCG

[Superman]

Off topic: I couldn't figure out why I knew that name, then I did a "something search" and figured it out:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/chuck_pagano_is_impossible_not_to_root_for_every_o.html

[TappedOut]

It wouldn't be the first time false accusations have been made against the Patriots prior to a Super Bowl. Food for thought.

[OffensivelyPC]

Off topic: I couldn't figure out why I knew that name, then I did a "something search" and figured it out:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/chuck_pagano_is_impossible_not_to_root_for_every_o.html

I know CHuck's done stuff like that before, and every time I read a new one I'm gratious that we have him as our head coach.  It's stories like that which make the game of football much bigger than itself.

[GoPats]

Off topic: I couldn't figure out why I knew that name, then I did a "something search" and figured it out:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/chuck_pagano_is_impossible_not_to_root_for_every_o.html

 

That was awesome, I missed it when it came around. Thanks for sharing the link. 

[GoPats]

I have posted many articles saying they don't miss the gauge test, and Walt Anderson is by the book more than most others as well. It is not known fact official dust off their duty to maintain all the games balls via measurement.  Need a link that states and proves that they did blow it off.  Also Mortenson cited 'league sources' about the pre game measurement protocol being followed.  Not just a source. 

 

Later someone did cite just a source saying -

 

"One source described the league as "disappointed ... angry ... distraught" after spending considerable time on the findings earlier Tuesday. This guy does not attribute his sources as league sources, nor does your article.

 

I hear you... but again, everything to this point has been from one "source" or another, right?

 

 

I find it hard to believe but can't really be dismissive about it.  One thing I would need answered then is, if the NFL knew before the game that it planned on investigating the patriots for deflated footballs, it makes no sense for the referees to not properly measure the (or accept below regulation levels of)  the football's internal pressure.

 

I don't think that's been substantiated either, just a rumor.

 

If it's true though, and if the refs let the Patriots play with under-inflated balls for a full half... regardless of the 1st/2nd half results... you guys should be livid. I find it hard to believe the league would screw the Colts like that just to run a sting operation. Talk about playing with fire. 

 

You know how sometimes stories go on for so long and there are so many articles and tweets and whatever... that it just gets to be almost too much to deal with? Yeah I'm almost there, lol...

[bababooey]

Posted this in another thread but didn't want to see it get lost in the mix: 

 

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/01/27/richs-sources-patriots-footballs-passed-referee-inspection-just-under-allowable-psi-level/

 

 

One thing that has been reported this last week, as we’ve been learning about how footballs are treated before a game is that before every game, a referee measured with a pressure gauge each football to see if the pressure in each one is between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI.

 

But that apparently isn’t always the case. As a matter of fact, from what I’ve been told, many times the refs don’t test the pressure of each ball with a gauge at all. Sometimes refs hold the ball, squeeze it, briefly inspect it, then sign off on it. Next ball. It’s never been a problem before. This is apparently a well known fact in the NFL.

 

 Now according to my sources, The Patriots turned in their footballs to the ref at a pressure just below the allowable PSI.

 

If it’s a situation where the refs DID use a gauge, the refs would see the balls were under inflated, and inflate them to the proper size. But in this case, the balls were approved and given back to the Patriots under-inflated.

 

 

This has been my question from day one. I realize we're talking "sources" here but that's all Mortensen had, too. It would explain the long, drawn-out nature of the NFL's investigation. 

 

It's funny if you listen to the actual clip from the radio. Fred Toucher is a Jets fan and isn't very good at hiding his dislike for the Patriots, lol... 

 

Again, not saying this is true... not much of anything regarding this story has been confirmed either way, though. Just an interesting twist to the plot. 

Just like I said in the other thread, ProFootballTalk reported they were properly checked.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/source-footballs-were-properly-checked-before-colts-patriots-game/

 

Source: Footballs were properly checked before Colts-Patriots game

 

With 11 of 12 footballs used by the Patriots in Sunday’s AFC title game reportedly underinflated by two pounds per square inch, several questions remain.  And here are answers to a couple of them.

First, per a league source, the NFL has reviewed the entire process and determined that the balls were properly checked by the officials before the game.  Which means that, when the balls left the possession of the referee, the pressure was at least 12.5 PSI and no more than 13.5 PSI.

Second, as to the fact that the officials didn’t notice anything wrong with the balls while handling them after every play, the source explains that a pressure difference of one or two pounds would not be obvious, if the official is not specifically looking for it.

In this specific case, the NFL indeed became aware of the issue in the first half — as previously pointed out by Bob Glauber of Newsday.  Per the source, the league opted not to stop the game during the first half but to test the balls at halftime, which they did.

Which is when the NFL determined that 11 of the 12 balls were below two pounds below the mandatory minimum PSI of 12.5.

Plenty of other questions remains, but it appears that the NFL has determined that:  (1) the balls were properly inspected before the game; and (2) there’s no reason to believe the officials should have noticed anything unusual.

[GoPats]

Just like I said in the other thread, ProFootballTalk reported they were properly checked.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/source-footballs-were-properly-checked-before-colts-patriots-game/

 

The HEADLINE to your link is "Source: Footballs were properly checked..." 

 

So again, if you take one unnamed source to be true and assume another is false, you aren't being objective. There's a good chance that PFT and Mortensen were 100% right. But there's a good chance they aren't, either. 

[BullsColtsFan1]

Either way, if the balls were submitted under the acceptable PSI, then there's some responsibility that BB and TB have in it. Maybe they do this often, hoping that the balls aren't "'caught" and slip through the approval process. Maybe that's pretty common, I don't know. 

 

But if there's any truth to the article, then there was no deliberate deception, which is really the heart of the entire thing. No one's denied the balls were under, that's pretty much fact. It seems as though now other sources differ on how much they were under, and how many of 12 came up light. 

 

If Indy's footballs were similarly not checked with a gauge before the game, they probably started within the range and ended within the range as well. But you wouldn't know if someone "messed" with them because you don't have an actual PSI value from the pre-game process. To subtract "y" from "x" you need a value for "x." All we really know for sure is that they were measured with a gauge at halftime.

I see your point. All tho a lot of stuff seems fishy to me.  If the league determines they broke a rule and did something illegal I hope proper action is taken. 

[bababooey]

The HEADLINE to your link is "Source: Footballs were properly checked..." 

 

So again, if you take one unnamed source to be true and assume another is false, you aren't being objective. There's a good chance that PFT and Mortensen were 100% right. But there's a good chance they aren't, either. 

I'll take PFT and Chris Mortenson's "league sources" over a radio host in Boston.

[bababooey]

Dean Blandino the referee just confirmed at media day they were tested properly and that there is extra security for this weekend. No Patriot Locker room attendants allowed.

[BullsColtsFan1]

Dean Blandino the referee just confirmed at media day they were tested properly and that there is extra security for this weekend. No Patriot Locker room attendants allowed.

Good so that means all the Patriot locker room attendants have been "banished". I like that!

[bababooey]

Dean Blandino said there will be added security for the pregame footballs for Sunday, based on the atmosphere.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet)

January 29, 2015

 

Dean Blandino said the footballs were tested properly before the AFC Title game.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet)

January 29, 2015

 

Ref Bill Vinovich said they did a test in their office and unless you squeeze the ball, he couldn’t tell the difference between 12 & 13 PSI

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet)

January 29, 2015

 

Dean Blandino said this offseason they’ll look at pregame footballs. Could add personnel to watch footballs or do random tests on the ball

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet)

January 29, 2015

 

Looks like new rules added because of the Patriots

 

https://twitter.com/BartHubbuch/status/560897494930817024

 

https://twitter.com/BartHubbuch/status/560899563762905089

 

This thread can be locked now.

[OffensivelyPC]

I don't think that's been substantiated either, just a rumor.

 

If it's true though, and if the refs let the Patriots play with under-inflated balls for a full half... regardless of the 1st/2nd half results... you guys should be livid. I find it hard to believe the league would screw the Colts like that just to run a sting operation. Talk about playing with fire. 

 

You know how sometimes stories go on for so long and there are so many articles and tweets and whatever... that it just gets to be almost too much to deal with? Yeah I'm almost there, lol...

Agree on all fronts.  The NFL planning to investigate is just a rumor as everythign else is except the statement from the NFL.  I tend to believe they're targeting the ball boy for questioning since they cite camera evidence on top of its anonymous source and not just a "reliable source close to the situation" (which basically means we're citing ourselves).  But yeah, I knew it was a rumor, that's why I said "if."  It's hard to know much of anything on this.  It's like the more information that comes out the less I know. 

[Bad Morty]

I find it hard to believe but can't really be dismissive about it.  One thing I would need answered then is, if the NFL knew before the game that it planned on investigating the patriots for deflated footballs, it makes no sense for the referees to not properly measure the (or accept below regulation levels of)  the football's internal pressure.

 

Nevermind - someone else made the same point already about the NFL being fools if this was a sting and they allowed the first half to be played with compromised game balls.

[bababooey]

https://twitter.com/BartHubbuch/status/560904390995750912

 

There was no sting according to Blandino.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Did not even bother to click the link and read the story.

It's not surprisingly if/when the pats get away with cheating once again.

Kraft runs the league. But no matter what the talking heads will try and spin it, in court of public opinion they are cheaters and everything they've done and will do is tainted and has a mental asterisk attached to them.

That's their Legacy!

[bababooey]

Did not even bother to click the link and read the story.

It's not surprisingly if/when the pats get away with cheating once again.

Kraft runs the league. But no matter what the talking heads will try and spin it, in court of public opinion they are cheaters and everything they've done and will do is tainted and has a mental asterisk attached to them.

That's their Legacy!

This is so true, I wish I could like this twice. It's gotten so bad I can't even enjoy the game this weekend. I do enjoy the fact everyone outside of NE knows they are cheaters and that will be there legacy, despite what excuses the fans there tell themselves.

[GoPats]

I see your point. All tho a lot of stuff seems fishy to me.  If the league determines they broke a rule and did something illegal I hope proper action is taken. 

 

I hope so too, and I mean that honestly. 

[GoPats]

This is so true, I wish I could like this twice. It's gotten so bad I can't even enjoy the game this weekend. I do enjoy the fact everyone outside of NE knows they are cheaters and that will be there legacy, despite what excuses the fans there tell themselves.

 

LOL... and what would you be doing in our shoes?

 

If, you know, you weren't too busy walking on water or turning it into wine?

 

;)

[DougDew]

Posted this in another thread but didn't want to see it get lost in the mix: 

 

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/01/27/richs-sources-patriots-footballs-passed-referee-inspection-just-under-allowable-psi-level/

 

 

One thing that has been reported this last week, as we’ve been learning about how footballs are treated before a game is that before every game, a referee measured with a pressure gauge each football to see if the pressure in each one is between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI.

 

But that apparently isn’t always the case. As a matter of fact, from what I’ve been told, many times the refs don’t test the pressure of each ball with a gauge at all. Sometimes refs hold the ball, squeeze it, briefly inspect it, then sign off on it. Next ball. It’s never been a problem before. This is apparently a well known fact in the NFL.

 

 Now according to my sources, The Patriots turned in their footballs to the ref at a pressure just below the allowable PSI.

 

If it’s a situation where the refs DID use a gauge, the refs would see the balls were under inflated, and inflate them to the proper size. But in this case, the balls were approved and given back to the Patriots under-inflated.

 

 

This has been my question from day one. I realize we're talking "sources" here but that's all Mortensen had, too. It would explain the long, drawn-out nature of the NFL's investigation. 

 

It's funny if you listen to the actual clip from the radio. Fred Toucher is a Jets fan and isn't very good at hiding his dislike for the Patriots, lol... 

 

Again, not saying this is true... not much of anything regarding this story has been confirmed either way, though. Just an interesting twist to the plot.

Irrelevant. What you are saying is the same thing that people say when they have a particular outlook on life (not to get philosophical here)

It is the responsibility of everyone to follow the rules.

Because the cops don't pull you over for speeding, doesn't mean they've made it legal for you to speed. The team must play with properly inflated footballs. Just because the refs didn't check to see if they were properly inflated, doesn't mean they okayed the lower PSI.

Those two examples I just gave would be okay if we lived in a world where the idea of succeeding is based upon how often and how well you can break rules without getting caught. And the thinking that not getting caught is the fault of the rules enforcer not being good enough...rather than the fault of the rules breaker for breaking them. Put the onus on the cops to catch people, not the citizens to follow the rules.

"Its their fault they didn't catch me" is a twisted a philosophy that some people seem to have, and don't realize that the majority of the world doesn't share. But maybe its normal for people in Massachusetts and Rhode Island (smiley face emoticon)

[Blue Horseshoe]

LOL... and what would you be doing in our shoes?

 

If, you know, you weren't too busy walking on water or turning it into wine?

 

;)

 

Can't walk on water today but did so a couple days ago.  Unfortunately, the fish weren't at all interested and I hardly caught a thing.

[BullsColtsFan1]

I hope so too, and I mean that honestly. 

I believe you, you seem pretty honest and straight forward unlike 99.9% of Pats fans

[Qwiz]

LOL... and what would you be doing in our shoes?

If, you know, you weren't too busy walking on water or turning it into wine?

;)

I could go for some wine right now

[Blue Horseshoe]

I could go for some wine right now

 

Easy!  Get some water and mix it with some Kool Aid powder and sugar.  Add some activated yeast and let the mixture ferment.  Presto!  Water into wine!

[Bad Morty]

...aaaaand it's official - NFL didn't log the PSI's of the balls pre-game, so there's no proof that they weren't approved in an under-inflated state.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/29/nfl-didnt-log-the-psi-of-each-patriots-football/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

[Bad Morty]

So let's re-set this "Scandal"...the NFL has never said that the balls were measured with a gauge pre-game...only that they were "checked", which we know often means simply that the Refs felt them by hand and said yes or no. If a gauge WAS used, no log was kept of the readings, so there is no actual way to say how much (if any) either teams balls deflated from the beginning of the game to the half.

 

Yep...I'd say this story just dropped dead. I'm sure the league will still issue some face-saving fine down the road, but the reality is that there is little to no evidence on which to really drop the hammer here.

[HtownColt]

Then the ref who checked them and whoever is purposely behind under inflating the balls should be punished

[bababooey]

So let's re-set this "Scandal"...the NFL has never said that the balls were measured with a gauge pre-game...only that they were "checked", which we know often means simply that the Refs felt them by hand and said yes or no. If a gauge WAS used, no log was kept of the readings, so there is no actual way to say how much (if any) either teams balls deflated from the beginning of the game to the half.

 

Yep...I'd say this story just dropped dead. I'm sure the league will still issue some face-saving fine down the road, but the reality is that there is little to no evidence on which to really drop the hammer here.

They were checked and were within compliance, the balls were 2 psi below the minimum after being checked and the Colts balls were still in range. See above, the refs checked, they just didn't log the PSI because why would they think anyone would intentionally let the air out?

 

NFL is applying a low standard of proof. Just because they didn't have the exact psi does not mean the story "dropped dead" but you can still keep telling yourself that. 11 footballs, 2 psi below the minimum after being properly checked and approved within acceptable range, 12 perfect balls for the colts that stayed the same. NFL doesn't need an air tight case, the log would have helped but just like the people saying "THE REFS DIDN'T DO THEIR JOB BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T NOTICE THE BALLS WERE DEFLATED DURING THE GAME" it was also not their job to write down the specific psi of the balls because, again, they were not actively looking to find the Patriots cheating that night.

[jvan1973]

So let's re-set this "Scandal"...the NFL has never said that the balls were measured with a gauge pre-game...only that they were "checked", which we know often means simply that the Refs felt them by hand and said yes or no. If a gauge WAS used, no log was kept of the readings, so there is no actual way to say how much (if any) either teams balls deflated from the beginning of the game to the half.

Yep...I'd say this story just dropped dead. I'm sure the league will still issue some face-saving fine down the road, but the reality is that there is little to no evidence on which to really drop the hammer here.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/560897163937337345

[OffensivelyPC]

...aaaaand it's official - NFL didn't log the PSI's of the balls pre-game, so there's no proof that they weren't approved in an under-inflated state.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/29/nfl-didnt-log-the-psi-of-each-patriots-football/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

Now it looks like the NFL and Patriots are in bed together.  If true, that's even worse than the patriots just cheating.