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Greenoughrunner

Luck vs rg3

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I'm not the sharpest knife in the kitchen, so here is my opinion who is better:

1) Who has the most wins? The only stat I care about is W-L

2) Who plays for the Indianapolis Colts?

Yep, that's my criteria.

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The W.Redskins imported some of the concepts and simple reads from the Baylor playbook to give Griffin a low-risk opening sequence to work with. Offensive coordinator K.Shanahan crafted a game plan that built to creating space for R.Griffin.

It all starts with how the W.Redskins positioned R.Griffin in their backfield. Regardless of the down, distance, and situation, the W.Redskins rarely lined up R.Griffin directly under center in a traditional formation. Instead, R.Griffin spent most of his time alternating between the Shotgun and the Pistol, a shallower Shotgun formation where the quarterback lines up with a running back behind him.

The W.Redskins keep R.Griffin off the line of scrimmage on virtually every meaningful offensive snap of games, just the threat of a running quarterback kept linebackers frozen and allowed the W.Redskins to stretch the field both horizontally and, eventually, vertically. R.Griffin rolls out and looks like he might run and the backfield freeze for a second and allows receiver to get open and R.Griffin throws it to him, just the threat of him taking off and running is all you need.

R.Griffin lines up in the Pistol and executed a simple zone read, a two-option run that's a hallmark of notable college offenses from the past decade. When R.Griffin see a defensive end crash down to defend against a possible hand off to halfback A.Morris, R.Griffin simply ran around the vacated end and goes mostly untouched for lots of yards. The W.Redskins use the simple zone read as a base for their entire offensive scheme.

Or they fake a hand off to A.Morris out of the Pistol again and threw a quick easy completion hitch pass to the right side of the field and or they ran it to the left side and then next play for an even easier first down. If the LB was more disciplined and didn't crash down into the line of scrimmage, R.Griffin handed the ball off to A.Morris for a few yards up the gut. And then, after another quick play fake out of the Pistol, they threw a easily completed swing pass that turned into a first down.

Tape isn't enough for teams to shut down the W.Redskins, but it will give them ample time to practice and prepare. Their game plan also requires a ton of movement by Washington's offensive linemen in terms of getting off the line of scrimmage and moving down field and/or to the sidelines to block and that's going to create wear and tear and tired them out. For those who bring up A.Lucks fumbles, there were four fumbles in the Saints game by various players and the W.Redskins ended up recovering each of them. Sometimes the ball bounces the right way sometimes they don't. LOL

I don't remember A.Luck fumbling while running, it was when he gets sacked, Colts patched up offensive line is not as good as Washington's and Luck gets more pressure and thus more of the ball getting knocked out when the pocket calapses, after this season and with extra funds around 43 million I hear and the draft picks the line will be better and that extra second or 2 is gold...

The use of the Baylor low risk simple zone read, a two-option runs creating space with easy completed highly successful swing passes that allows a few times to open up for a long throw attempt.

This all will be refuted by RG3 fans of course, they think he's a god, but his stats are result of a system that has easy short swing completed passes and easy under 20 yard hitch plays and running option plays. And those allow the SS and FS to bite creating one on ones to open up downfield passing plays from RG3 rolling out so those before mentioned backfield will bite thinking it's a run, it's very successfull, but the elite defenses do end up adapting and isn't as effective as it's shown in the past in the NFL...

Go Colts...

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I went with 'I don't care'.

I just want Luck and the Colts to be very successful.

If RG3 does, as well, so be it.

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I went with 'I don't care'.

I just want Luck and the Colts to be very successful.

If RG3 does, as well, so be it.

This. And if RG3 wins the rookie award over Luck by years end let him have it. It's just an award....

At this point maybe the league needs both of these dudes to become stars. The Future. We are witnesses.

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Luck is the better QB in the long run.

What sort of psychic phenomenon has led to so many citizens of Indianapolis possessing the gift of clairvoyance? ;)

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And if RG3 wins the rookie award over Luck by years end let him have it. It's just an award....

And RGIII can polish his award while he's sitting on his couch watching Luck and the Colts in the playoffs. :thmup:

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What sort of psychic phenomenon has led to so many citizens of Indianapolis possessing the gift of clairvoyance? ;)

I knew you would join this thread and post this....

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Luck is leading his team to the playoffs with a bad running game. End thread/

The running game is not bad at all. Average perhaps (15th in yards). He's leading us to a possible play-off berth with bad passing protection. Woeful in fact.

Why are some people jealous of Griffin. It is clear he is doing very well. I could not give two bananas on how well Griffin does, well, until we meet in the SB and he drills us for 45 points.

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Luck is the better QB in the long run.

I can't say who's going to better in the future. Based on what I've seen RG3 appears to be the total package at qb. I have never in my life a qb with elite passing ability, world class speed, intelligence, poise, toughness, and great leader. I have never seen all those characteristic in one player. I have absolutely nothing negative to say about Andrew Luck. He might very well be the next Peyton Manning. I just believe that RG3 is going to redefine the qb position. He is that good.

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The W.Redskins imported some of the concepts and simple reads from the Baylor playbook to give Griffin a low-risk opening sequence to work with. Offensive coordinator K.Shanahan crafted a game plan that built to creating space for R.Griffin.

It all starts with how the W.Redskins positioned R.Griffin in their backfield. Regardless of the down, distance, and situation, the W.Redskins rarely lined up R.Griffin directly under center in a traditional formation. Instead, R.Griffin spent most of his time alternating between the Shotgun and the Pistol, a shallower Shotgun formation where the quarterback lines up with a running back behind him.

The W.Redskins keep R.Griffin off the line of scrimmage on virtually every meaningful offensive snap of games, just the threat of a running quarterback kept linebackers frozen and allowed the W.Redskins to stretch the field both horizontally and, eventually, vertically. R.Griffin rolls out and looks like he might run and the backfield freeze for a second and allows receiver to get open and R.Griffin throws it to him, just the threat of him taking off and running is all you need.

R.Griffin lines up in the Pistol and executed a simple zone read, a two-option run that's a hallmark of notable college offenses from the past decade. When R.Griffin see a defensive end crash down to defend against a possible hand off to halfback A.Morris, R.Griffin simply ran around the vacated end and goes mostly untouched for lots of yards. The W.Redskins use the simple zone read as a base for their entire offensive scheme.

Or they fake a hand off to A.Morris out of the Pistol again and threw a quick easy completion hitch pass to the right side of the field and or they ran it to the left side and then next play for an even easier first down. If the LB was more disciplined and didn't crash down into the line of scrimmage, R.Griffin handed the ball off to A.Morris for a few yards up the gut. And then, after another quick play fake out of the Pistol, they threw a easily completed swing pass that turned into a first down.

Tape isn't enough for teams to shut down the W.Redskins, but it will give them ample time to practice and prepare. Their game plan also requires a ton of movement by Washington's offensive linemen in terms of getting off the line of scrimmage and moving down field and/or to the sidelines to block and that's going to create wear and tear and tired them out. For those who bring up A.Lucks fumbles, there were four fumbles in the Saints game by various players and the W.Redskins ended up recovering each of them. Sometimes the ball bounces the right way sometimes they don't. LOL

I don't remember A.Luck fumbling while running, it was when he gets sacked, Colts patched up offensive line is not as good as Washington's and Luck gets more pressure and thus more of the ball getting knocked out when the pocket calapses, after this season and with extra funds around 43 million I hear and the draft picks the line will be better and that extra second or 2 is gold...

The use of the Baylor low risk simple zone read, a two-option runs creating space with easy completed highly successful swing passes that allows a few times to open up for a long throw attempt.

This all will be refuted by RG3 fans of course, they think he's a god, but his stats are result of a system that has easy short swing completed passes and easy under 20 yard hitch plays and running option plays. And those allow the SS and FS to bite creating one on ones to open up downfield passing plays from RG3 rolling out so those before mentioned backfield will bite thinking it's a run, it's very successfull, but the elite defenses do end up adapting and isn't as effective as it's shown in the past in the NFL...

Go Colts...

The Redskins is more complex than any offense in the NFL. What I noticed is many people focus on the formations and not the routes. They're not running a college offense. They running Mike Shanahan's offense out of a Pistol Formation to highlight RG3's talent. To be honest, they don't run the triple option nowhere near as much as people think. RG3 is under center at least half the time. He goes through progressions just like any other qb. I think RG3 can run any offense effectively. He can do things that no other qb in the league can do. The reason his stats are so impressive is because he's really good. I see no reason to downplay what he's accomplishing on the field just because Luck can't do the same.

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, December 4, 2012 - inappropriate

Hey trystan1540, while your god R.Griffin is polishing his ROY award if he gets it, you'll be polishing your tool while watching RG3 replays on youtube while A.Luck and the Colts will be in the playoffs, here is an article on why P.Carrol in Seattle changed his offense to the Baylor type offense used by R.Griffin in Washington...

And P.Carroll decided to take a look at the success the Washington Redskins and offensive coordinator K.Shanahan were having with fellow rookie quarterback R.Griffin and P.Carroll went to school on how the W.Redskins were using R.Griffin and how they were relying heavily on the read-zone option offense that R.Griffin ran while at Baylor.

P.Carroll quote: "I was impressed with how much they got out of it," Carroll said. "…They’re way ahead of everybody else in terms of their commitment to a really college style of offense and it’s been very effective. And It was a good move for me and it’s helped up a little bit and I was influenced a little bit more than I thought when I first looked at. You see some of our stuff coming to life and it’s helping us."

Now Seattle has been able to continue to have success running the football with M.Lynch out of the shotgun while Wilson does have the capability to run the zone-read option well enough to make defenses honest. Seattle has found success running play action off the read-option to find completions down field against there opponents and again just the threat of a running quarterback kept linebackers frozen and allows the Seahawks now to stretch the field both horizontally and vertically.

Also like to add:

Week 12 #2 Rookie Alfred Morris has 982 yards so that adds extra threat on top of that a threat of a running R.Griffin.

Week 12 #6 Rookie Vick Ballard has 427 yards, not a true threat YET beside a few fumbles he's better than Donald Brown and he's also sharing duty with that before mentioned not so good RB Donald Brown who in week 12 has only 404 yards so both together they are 151 yards less, They are not feared, A.Morris is feared. Both our backs equal one Alfred Morris in talent, so that again adds extra threat on top of that a threat of a running R.Griffin. I didn't add the Colts RB Carter he's a mostly goal line back. 

Some people don't like Strength of Schedule now this year, but like it of hate it, but before R.Griffin is was used quit a bit in discussions.

The RED ZONE web site.

2012 Strength of Schedule (based on opponents' 2011 record)

W% OTW OTL

Colts 500 128 128

W% OTW OTL

Redskins 0.488 125 131

ESPN NFL

A look at the most difficult schedules in 2012 (based on opponents' 2011 record).

14 Indianapolis 128-128 .500 (7)<Games vs. Quality Opp.

24 Washington 125-131 .488 (7)<Games vs. Quality Opp.

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RGIII's and Luck's games are nothing alike. That's what makes this such an interesting discussion.

RGIII fans will ask you to look at his completion percentage and QB rating, and in fact, they are better than Luck's. But that doesn't tell you the whole story. What if I told you that there is a QB in the league right now with a 70% completion percentage and a QB rating of 104% with numbers similar to RGIII's. You might think, Rogers? Manning? Brady? No, it's Alex Smith, a guy, much like RGIII who plays in a "Safe" dink and dunk offense. Both RGIII and Alex Smith have similar numbers. Before Alex Smith went out with a concussion, they nearly the same amount of downfield throws in which both are ranked at the bottom of the league.

It's easy to have a high completion percentage when your passes don't travel too far in the air, as evidenced by both Alex Smith and RGIII. Occasionally, RGIII will air it out for a very deep pass, helping his YPA, but overall, he's a lot like Alex Smith-- a dink and dunker. Sorry but no one thinks that Alex Smith is a gun slinger. His stats and RGIII's are very similar.

My 1st post so hello everyone!

Let me start by correcting you. Alex Smith is nowhere near RGIII in terms of anything except precision. That's it. They are both efficient. They both complete close to 70% of their passes. They are intelligent QBs. But that, my friend is where the comparisons should stop.

Smith does not have the arm strength as RGIII does. He is not capable of throwing the ball 60-65 yards in the air as RGIII is more than capable of doing. That is the primary reason Harbaugh benched Smith. Harbaugh wants to win NOW and the only way to do that is to go with the more DYNAMIC QB.

You say RGIII has been doing the "dink and dunk" offense and that is why his efficiency is so high. I beg to disagree. I believe RGIII currently has the most passes for over 50 yards in the NFL (someone please verify). RGIII has aired it out quite often lately, especially since he has his main weapon back, Garcon, the previously discarded #2 WR for the Colts.

Want more proof? Go back and check RGIII in college. His game was the long ball and he was very, very efficient and successful with it. So to say the Skins are employing a "dink and dunk" offense to help pad RGIII's stats is incorrect and irresponsible.

Sorry I am rambling. I just wanted to ensure I pointed those facts out.

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BTW, I also want to say that I have watched a couple of NFL games with Luck playing and I am very impressed with the rookie QB. He will go far in the NFL. I am actually more impressed with his play now than when he was in college.

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, December 4, 2012 - response to removed post

Hey trystan1540, while your god R.Griffin is polishing his ROY award if he gets it, you'll be polishing your tool while watching RG3 replays on youtube while A.Luck and the Colts will be in the playoffs

This is the kind of comment that makes me laugh. You do realize that the Redskins are only 1 game back of the wildcard and hold tiebreakers over the saints, bucs, Cowboys and Vikings which are the 4 main teams vying for the 6th spot. They are also only 2 games back of the division and play the Giants this Monday night meaning if they win they would be a game back. And the Giants from here on out have a pretty tough schedule ahead of them. Another thing that bothers me is this stigma that Andrew Luck is turning around the worst team in football from last year. Yes you guys had the number 1 pick but IT WAS THE SAME ROSTER THAT PEYTON WON DOUBLE DIGITS WITH YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT....And if Peyton was healthy last year he would have done it again. You guys were bad last year because the Colts never really addressed the back-up QB because Peyton was an iron man. You had a guy starting in Curtis Painter that can barely be a starter in a local pickup flag football game. Another thing is, COMMON guys your division is trash besides the texans. I know the NFC East records are bad right now but I tell you this I'd much rather play Jacksonville the Titans and the Texans then I would the defending superbowl champion Giants Cowboys and yes even the terrible Philadelphia Eagles...Which I think every team in the East would sweep the Jags and the Titans.

And please don't get me wrong I'm not an Andrew Luck hater infact If the Colts build the team right around him HE WILL WIN A SUPERBOWL. But I defend RG3 because there are tons of haters. Just because of the media drooling all over him. He can't help that its out of his control. Bottom line is the guy is and always has been a winner. He has a strong head on his shoulders and when the bright light come on he doesnt shy away he gets better. And the world will get what I'm talking about this Monday night primetime the lights come on when he goes up against the defending super bowl champs.

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At this point fans of every team outside of the Skins, myself included, are just getting tired of the media which has become a RGIII hype machine. Coming into the season, most people, myself included, liked RGIII and thought he would be a good quarterback. However, the ridiculous amount of over-praise/hype RGIII gets after every game he plays has made it almost unenjoyable to watch a Skins game or their highlights. And to all the Skins fans/RGIII trolls in this thread-- YES, his offense is a college offense and is very simplistic. Half his throws are behind the line of scrimmage for crying out loud. Stop kidding yourself. Kudos to the Skins to making it work for him this year, but don't be surprised when it is exploited next year or if RGIII has growing pains ala Cam Newton when they transition to a pro offense.

As far as the Luck/RGIII comparisons go: yes, RGIII has the better stats, but I think a lot of that you can contribute to his his "dink and dunk" offense as others have pointed out ad naseum. However, I think if you just give both of these QBs the eye test it is impossible to come away not believing that Luck is the superior QB. Watch each of them play. Yes, RGIII has incredible athletic ability and throws a good deep ball. But Luck sees the field and is cerebral. He goes through his progressions. RGIII throws to his first receiver almost every time in the games I have watched him. Luck does try to force it sometimes, but I think a lot of that can be attributed to the pathetic O-Line he is playing with. Couple this with Luck's 2nd gear when it comes to game-winning drives, and I will take Luck any day of the week. Skins can keep RGIII.

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This is the kind of comment that makes me laugh. You do realize that the Redskins are only 1 game back of the wildcard and hold tiebreakers over the saints, bucs, Cowboys and Vikings which are the 4 main teams vying for the 6th spot. They are also only 2 games back of the division and play the Giants this Monday night meaning if they win they would be a game back. And the Giants from here on out have a pretty tough schedule ahead of them. Another thing that bothers me is this stigma that Andrew Luck is turning around the worst team in football last year. Yes you guys had the number 1 pick but IT WAS THE SAME ROSTER THAT PEYTON WON DOUBLE DIGITS WITH YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT....And if Peyton was healthy last year he would have done it again. You guys were bad last year because the Colts never really addressed the back-up QB because Peyton was an iron man. You had a guy starting in Curtis Painter that can barely be a starter in a local pickup flag football game. Another thing is, COMMON guys your division is trash besides the texans. I know the NFC East records are bad right now but I tell you this I'd much rather play Jacksonville the Titans and the Texans then I would the defending superbowl champion Giants Cowboys and yes even the terrible Philadelphia Eagles...Which I think every team in the East would sweep the Jags and the Titans.

The Texans are hands down better than anyone in the NFC East (althought I may give the Giants the edge if they play like they did against GB), and the Eagles aren't going to beat anyone--the Jaguars included. Have you actually watched them play lately?

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At this point fans of every team outside of the Skins, myself included, are just getting tired of the media which has become a RGIII hype machine. Coming into the season, most people, myself included, liked RGIII and thought he would be a good quarterback. However, the ridiculous amount of over-praise/hype RGIII gets after every game he plays has made it almost unenjoyable to watch a Skins game or their highlights. And to all the Skins fans/RGIII trolls in this thread-- YES, his offense is a college offense and is very simplistic. Half his throws are behind the line of scrimmage for crying out loud. Stop kidding yourself. Kudos to the Skins to making it work for him this year, but don't be surprised when it is exploited next year or if RGIII has growing pains ala Cam Newton when they transition to a pro offense.

As far as the Luck/RGIII comparisons go: yes, RGIII has the better stats, but I think a lot of that you can contribute to his his "dink and dunk" offense as others have pointed out ad naseum. However, I think if you just give both of these QBs the eye test it is impossible to come away not believing that Luck is the superior QB. Watch each of them play. Yes, RGIII has incredible athletic ability and throws a good deep ball. But Luck sees the field and is cerebral. He goes through his progressions. RGIII throws to his first receiver almost every time in the games I have watched him. Luck does try to force it sometimes, but I think a lot of that can be attributed to the pathetic O-Line he is playing with. Couple this with Luck's 2nd gear when it comes to game-winning drives, and I will take Luck any day of the week. Skins can keep RGIII.

LOL. I can see there is no room for argument with a die-hard Colts fan. As such, let's agree to disagree on ALL your points. There is not one I can agree with...lol.

In any case, these 2 QBs are both very different and very similar in the sense that they are coming up together, so there will be tons of scrutiny as long as both are playing the game and playing it healthily.

I think the best thing to do is leave the comparisons and votes in the hands of non-Skins/Colts fans and let them tell us who they think is better or who is more cerebral, etc, etc.

Until then, let's enjoy both QBs. Deal?

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LOL. I can see there is no room for argument with a die-hard Colts fan. As such, let's agree to disagree on ALL your points. There is not one I can agree with...lol.

In any case, these 2 QBs are both very different and very similar in the sense that they are coming up together, so there will be tons of scrutiny as long as both are playing the game and playing it healthily.

I think the best thing to do is leave the comparisons and votes in the hands of non-Skins/Colts fans and let them tell us who they think is better or who is more cerebral, etc, etc.

Until then, let's enjoy both QBs. Deal?

You are having a RGIII vs. Luck discussion on a Colts forum. If you're surprised by my response I am not sure why. Regardless, you have yourself a deal.

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The Texans are hands down better than anyone in the NFC East (althought I may give the Giants the edge if they play like they did against GB), and the Eagles aren't going to beat anyone--the Jaguars included. Have you actually watched them play lately?

Yes I watched the Eagles play thats how bad I think Jacksonville is. And the Texans would get beat by the Giants. Because the Giants always rise to the occasion when they play teams that no one thinks they can beat. ALA 49ers and Packers this season or if you wanna go back to both SB's against the PATS.

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Last time I checked, this was a colts fan forum. Not a spelling bee. So give the guy a break.

lfjasdlkf jdal;j eropam alsdhjfklasd jfld; jGO COLTS lfmadfk fdlkajfda lfjdak. That is acceptable, I guess.

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At this point fans of every team outside of the Skins, myself included, are just getting tired of the media which has become a RGIII hype machine. Coming into the season, most people, myself included, liked RGIII and thought he would be a good quarterback. However, the ridiculous amount of over-praise/hype RGIII gets after every game he plays has made it almost unenjoyable to watch a Skins game or their highlights. And to all the Skins fans/RGIII trolls in this thread-- YES, his offense is a college offense and is very simplistic. Half his throws are behind the line of scrimmage for crying out loud. Stop kidding yourself. Kudos to the Skins to making it work for him this year, but don't be surprised when it is exploited next year or if RGIII has growing pains ala Cam Newton when they transition to a pro offense.

As far as the Luck/RGIII comparisons go: yes, RGIII has the better stats, but I think a lot of that you can contribute to his his "dink and dunk" offense as others have pointed out ad naseum. However, I think if you just give both of these QBs the eye test it is impossible to come away not believing that Luck is the superior QB. Watch each of them play. Yes, RGIII has incredible athletic ability and throws a good deep ball. But Luck sees the field and is cerebral. He goes through his progressions. RGIII throws to his first receiver almost every time in the games I have watched him. Luck does try to force it sometimes, but I think a lot of that can be attributed to the pathetic O-Line he is playing with. Couple this with Luck's 2nd gear when it comes to game-winning drives, and I will take Luck any day of the week. Skins can keep RGIII.

I wanted to say I understand your point about the media even as a Skins fan I think it's ridiculous. But like I said in my earlier post it's not his fault the media is drooling. Secondly the offense is way more complex then you give it credit he is running 3 different offenses including Shanahans base offense thats highly complex thats the offense that Elway Plummer and Cutler ran. And i even put a breakdown in this thread of the deep ball to Aldrick on Thanksgiving he was his third read he is making the progressions. It's sad to say but it's his skin color that is making people compare him to Cam Newton and Mike Vick. The dude is more Aaron Rodgers and Steve Young. Luck is Eli Manning he's not gonna wow you but he will get the job done and beat you in clutch situations. He also has the physical skills of Ben Roethlisberger.

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Luck is leading his team to the playoffs with a bad running game. End thread/

Exactly!!! Alfred Morris or whatever his name is has over 1000 yds this year i think Ballard leads us with a little over 400(don't know the exact number) but my point is if it were the other way around i guarantee there would a vast difference in lucks numbers. Even with that he's wills this team too a 7-4 record

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Luck has undoubtably been the better of the 2. Im not saying RG3 sucks or anything like that, but people are not taking into account the entire picture when comparing the 2. They are only looking at the end result(stats wise) and not looking at just how many more throws Luck has to make.

Luck is getting very little help in the run game(although, it has been better as of late). RG3's offense is a dink and dunk style offense(despite what some will say). Most of his yds, are yds, after catch from his recievers. People say that RG3 is so accurate, but many of his throws are behind recievers and they still make very good catches.

The hype machine has been on overdrive for RG3 since the draft and people only see his highlights they show on ESPN. RG3 has been good this yr., but we will not see who is gonna be the better QB till next yr.. This time last season, everybody thought Cam was the next great QB and were already casting his bust for the HOF, but this yr. teams have had a chance to learn his game, make adjustments and Cam hasn't been able to adjust his game and take it to the next level.

Right now, Luck has his team on track to be a playoff team and thats with a much inferior team around him than RG3 has. Thats all that matters to me at this point and is the reason why Luck has been better. Next yr. we'll see how teams adjust to Luck and RG3 and we'll see which one takes his game to the next level and seperates himself from the other. Right now, Im betting on Luck but we'll see next season.

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These threads are getting old can't we just stop with this already I know it won't happen but still is nice to wish I guess.

Like the Manning vs Brady threads, I suspect we will be in for these threads on a monthly, if not weekly basis for the entire time the two of them are in this league as starters.

They're both very impressive prospects and they are both having outstanding rookie years. If I were building a team, though, my choice is Luck. Barring injury (to either of them), I just truly believe that Luck is looking like he might indeed emerge as a legendary QB. The OL needs to improve big time, though, so that Luck has the time to shore up his accuracy.

So far, Luck is looking a LOT like one heck of a warrior. Kind of reminding me of one of my all time favs, Bert Jones, in that respect. If not for injuries, Jones would have been a hall of famer. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the same ill fate does not befall Andrew Luck.

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Luck has undoubtably been the better of the 2. Im not saying RG3 sucks or anything like that, but people are not taking into account the entire picture when comparing the 2. They are only looking at the end result(stats wise) and not looking at just how many more throws Luck has to make.

Luck is getting very little help in the run game(although, it has been better as of late). RG3's offense is a dink and dunk style offense(despite what some will say). Most of his yds, are yds, after catch from his recievers. People say that RG3 is so accurate, but many of his throws are behind recievers and they still make very good catches.

The hype machine has been on overdrive for RG3 since the draft and people only see his highlights they show on ESPN. RG3 has been good this yr., but we will not see who is gonna be the better QB till next yr.. This time last season, everybody thought Cam was the next great QB and were already casting his bust for the HOF, but this yr. teams have had a chance to learn his game, make adjustments and Cam hasn't been able to adjust his game and take it to the next level.

Right now, Luck has his team on track to be a playoff team and thats with a much inferior team around him than RG3 has. Thats all that matters to me at this point and is the reason why Luck has been better. Next yr. we'll see how teams adjust to Luck and RG3 and we'll see which one takes his game to the next level and seperates himself from the other. Right now, Im betting on Luck but we'll see next season.

Where on earth besides at RB (And that was a surprise to everyone 6th rd. pick) is this talent the Redskins team has more of than the Colts? Is it the deadly probowl TE Logan Paulsen? is it the HOF WR crew of aldrick Robinson Josh Morgan Leonard Hankerson and a 55 year old Santana Moss.I love Pierre Garcon but hes been out almost the entire season. Our O-line is not much better than yours. We have the worst RT in football and Im not exagerating. Polumbus is a siv. Don't get me started on our secondary.

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, December 4, 2012 - quoting removed post

Hey trystan1540, while your god R.Griffin is polishing his ROY award if he gets it, you'll be polishing your tool while watching RG3 replays on youtube while A.Luck and the Colts will be in the playoffs, here is an article on why P.Carrol in Seattle changed his offense to the Baylor type offense used by R.Griffin in Washington...

And P.Carroll decided to take a look at the success the Washington Redskins and offensive coordinator K.Shanahan were having with fellow rookie quarterback R.Griffin and P.Carroll went to school on how the W.Redskins were using R.Griffin and how they were relying heavily on the read-zone option offense that R.Griffin ran while at Baylor.

P.Carroll quote: "I was impressed with how much they got out of it," Carroll said. "…They’re way ahead of everybody else in terms of their commitment to a really college style of offense and it’s been very effective. And It was a good move for me and it’s helped up a little bit and I was influenced a little bit more than I thought when I first looked at. You see some of our stuff coming to life and it’s helping us."

Now Seattle has been able to continue to have success running the football with M.Lynch out of the shotgun while Wilson does have the capability to run the zone-read option well enough to make defenses honest. Seattle has found success running play action off the read-option to find completions down field against there opponents and again just the threat of a running quarterback kept linebackers frozen and allows the Seahawks now to stretch the field both horizontally and vertically.

Also like to add:

Week 12 #2 Rookie Alfred Morris has 982 yards so that adds extra threat on top of that a threat of a running R.Griffin.

Week 12 #6 Rookie Vick Ballard has 427 yards, not a true threat YET beside a few fumbles he's better than Donald Brown and he's also sharing duty with that before mentioned not so good RB Donald Brown who in week 12 has only 404 yards so both together they are 151 yards less, They are not feared, A.Morris is feared. Both our backs equal one Alfred Morris in talent, so that again adds extra threat on top of that a threat of a running R.Griffin. I didn't add the Colts RB Carter he's a mostly goal line back. 

Some people don't like Strength of Schedule now this year, but like it of hate it, but before R.Griffin is was used quit a bit in discussions.

The RED ZONE web site.

2012 Strength of Schedule (based on opponents' 2011 record)

W% OTW OTL

Colts 500 128 128

W% OTW OTL

Redskins 0.488 125 131

ESPN NFL

A look at the most difficult schedules in 2012 (based on opponents' 2011 record).

14 Indianapolis 128-128 .500 (7)<Games vs. Quality Opp.

24 Washington 125-131 .488 (7)<Games vs. Quality Opp.

Where is all this hostility coming from? I'm not here to put anyone down or discredit Andrwe Luck. I'm just pointing out the obvious. Based on performance RG3 is clearly the better player. His numbers pass the eye test. The offense RG3 is running is not a college offense. It's Mike Shanahan's offense with a few wrinkles. RG3 is still required to make all the same reads.

http://httr24-7.com/?p=3792

Chris Cooley been in seven different offenses since he's been in the pros. He says this offense is more complex than any other offense he's been apart of. That's why he can't get on the field. There is nothing simple about the Redskins offense.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--robert-griffin-iii-is-having-no-trouble-grasping-redskins--complicated-offense-002754711.html;_ylt=AksAyQXIWc6Hp6JBOB8O8RZDubYF;_ylu=X3oDMTN1ZXFqaTVrBG1pdANGRUFUVVJFRCBNZWdhdHJvbiBORkwEcGtnA2UzNzE3NmFlLWUyNjAtM2Q5Zi05ODllLTlhZjkxMzM0NWY4YQRwb3MDMgRzZWMDbWVnYXRyb24EdmVyAzIxY2EyOTkzLTM5YmYtMTFlMi05ZmZmLWQ1MTE2MzdhM2JiYQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTFoZHY1MWJpBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANuZmwEcHQDc2VjdGlvbnM-;_ylv=3

Alfred Morris is a very good running back; however, any good one cut runner can do what he's doing in the Redskins system. You can sit Alfred Morris down right now and RG3 won't miss a beat. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve credit for the teams success because he definitely does deserve some credit.

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It's too bad RG3's in the NFC or the NFL probably would have pulled it's magic to have us playing them every year like Manning/Brady.

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It's too bad RG3's in the NFC or the NFL probably would have pulled it's magic to have us playing them every year like Manning/Brady.

they could still do that if they wanted to

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Luck has undoubtably been the better of the 2. Im not saying RG3 sucks or anything like that, but people are not taking into account the entire picture when comparing the 2. They are only looking at the end result(stats wise) and not looking at just how many more throws Luck has to make.

Luck is getting very little help in the run game(although, it has been better as of late). RG3's offense is a dink and dunk style offense(despite what some will say). Most of his yds, are yds, after catch from his recievers. People say that RG3 is so accurate, but many of his throws are behind recievers and they still make very good catches.

The hype machine has been on overdrive for RG3 since the draft and people only see his highlights they show on ESPN. RG3 has been good this yr., but we will not see who is gonna be the better QB till next yr.. This time last season, everybody thought Cam was the next great QB and were already casting his bust for the HOF, but this yr. teams have had a chance to learn his game, make adjustments and Cam hasn't been able to adjust his game and take it to the next level.

Right now, Luck has his team on track to be a playoff team and thats with a much inferior team around him than RG3 has. Thats all that matters to me at this point and is the reason why Luck has been better. Next yr. we'll see how teams adjust to Luck and RG3 and we'll see which one takes his game to the next level and seperates himself from the other. Right now, Im betting on Luck but we'll see next season.

This is what I'll say in response to Luck being better than RG3. If he's better than RG3 when is he actually going to prove it on the field? So far, he has not done that. Yes, he passing the ball more than RG3, however, he's not close to being as effective. RG3 is the 4th rated passer in the NFL. He's completing 67.5% of his passes. He has a 4 to 1 td to int ratio. Right now Luck isn't as good. For anyone to argue that Luck is better than RG3 is absurd. There is nothing he's doing right now that RG3 isn't doing better. This comes as a surprise to most fans and so called experts. But there are guys who saw this coming. In college RG3 was a better and more accurate passer.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/24/cosell-deems-rg3-a-superior-arm-talent-and-natural-passer-to-luck/

When you look at both of these guys play it's obvious Greg Cosell and Merril Hodge assessments were accurate. We can actually see it on the field. That's not to say that Andrew Luck is playing great. That's not to say he won't be a top 3 qb. I think he will be. All I'm saying is that RG3 at point in time is a better. He's physically more talented in every way. You're right, time will tell who will end up being the better qb. When you look at both these guys with unbiased eyes it's clear who's the better of the two.

PS. For the record, I'm not a Redskins fan or a Colts fan. The Ravens are my team. I can just appreciate talented players like Luck and RG3. What they're doing in they have done so far in their rookie seasons are amazing.

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Where on earth besides at RB (And that was a surprise to everyone 6th rd. pick) is this talent the Redskins team has more of than the Colts? Is it the deadly probowl TE Logan Paulsen? is it the HOF WR crew of aldrick Robinson Josh Morgan Leonard Hankerson and a 55 year old Santana Moss.I love Pierre Garcon but hes been out almost the entire season. Our O-line is not much better than yours. We have the worst RT in football and Im not exagerating. Polumbus is a siv. Don't get me started on our secondary.

Before this season started, all the experts and most of the fans said we were the equivalent of an expansion team. We have a bunch of rookie's and castoffs from other teams with a few veterans sprinkled in. They said RG3 had a good team around him already and he would be more successful because of the team he had around him already.

Now, Luck has his team right square in the playoff hunt and the Skins have struggled, and all of a sudden, Luck has the better team with more weapons around him. Luck has made the players we have look better(except Reggie, who has helped Luck tremendously). The reason why RG3 has got so much hype is because he plays in a media market and Luck does not. RG3 has played well and done better than most rookie's do, but no matter how much the hype machine rolls for RG3, nobody will ever convince me that he is better than Luck and like I said before, the true test of how good either of these guy's actually are won't be seen till next yr.. Cam was a media darling last yr. too and everybody was all giddy for him, but this yr. he has struggled badly. I will take my chances with Luck everyday and twice on Sunday over RG3. Thats my opinion and I don't expect to change the RG3 lovers minds.

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Before this season started, all the experts and most of the fans said we were the equivalent of an expansion team. We have a bunch of rookie's and castoffs from other teams with a few veterans sprinkled in. They said RG3 had a good team around him already and he would be more successful because of the team he had around him already.

Now, Luck has his team right square in the playoff hunt and the Skins have struggled, and all of a sudden, Luck has the better team with more weapons around him. Luck has made the players we have look better(except Reggie, who has helped Luck tremendously). The reason why RG3 has got so much hype is because he plays in a media market and Luck does not. RG3 has played well and done better than most rookie's do, but no matter how much the hype machine rolls for RG3, nobody will ever convince me that he is better than Luck and like I said before, the true test of how good either of these guy's actually are won't be seen till next yr.. Cam was a media darling last yr. too and everybody was all giddy for him, but this yr. he has struggled badly. I will take my chances with Luck everyday and twice on Sunday over RG3. Thats my opinion and I don't expect to change the RG3 lovers minds.

Lets be honest though that was said before the season. And the main reason people thought RG3 had better talent is because they thought he had a top 10 defense that would help him out and make him not have to do much. I don't know if you noticed but for the last 20 years my Redskins have sucked and been bottom feeders. You guys have 1 bad year and all of a sudden the talent there is worse. Another reason the media labeled us with more talent is because we had more wins than you last season but as I said in previous posts its because Painter was your qb and the Colts never addressed their backup QB like they should have because they had the iron man at qb. If Peyton doesnt get hurt last years team is a 10+ win team, please tell me if i'm wrong here? What RG3 is doing is amazing. He is taking a team that has been miserable putting them on his back and making them relivent. The Skins offense the past 10 seasons could barely avg 14 points a game now there darn near averaging 30 a game its quite amazing. RG3 whether colts fans want to admit it is gonna change the way people look at the qb position HE"S LIGHT YEARS BETTER THAN CAM NEWTON AND HE'S A LEADER AND CAM'S A CRYBABY. I hear wait till next year well theres 11 weeks of tape and theres tape on the so called college offense and they can watch PANTHERS offensive tape to stop him too cause according to most of you it's the same offense YET NO ONE CAN STOP HIM. This league has never seen a guy that can run or pass with accuracy that is as smart as any QB in the league that is level headed and a leader like RG3. With RG3 it's pick your poisen. He's the reason wr's get so wide open its his duel threat. And I'll end it with this please answer this question....IF YOU WERE TO TALK TO ALL 32 D COORDINATORS IN THE NFL WHICH QB LUCK OR RG3 WOULD THEY HATE TO HAVE TO GAMEPLAN AGAINST THE MOST.....I GUARANTEE YOU 31 OF 32 WOULD SAY RG3. The coordinator that would pick Luck would probably be Greg Manusky and that would him just being politically correct.
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Lets be honest though that was said before the season. And the main reason people thought RG3 had better talent is because they thought he had a top 10 defense that would help him out and make him not have to do much. I don't know if you noticed but for the last 20 years my Redskins have sucked and been bottom feeders. You guys have 1 bad year and all of a sudden the talent there is worse. Another reason the media labeled us with more talent is because we had more wins than you last season but as I said in previous posts its because Painter was your qb and the Colts never addressed their backup QB like they should have because they had the iron man at qb. If Peyton doesnt get hurt last years team is a 10+ win team, please tell me if i'm wrong here? What RG3 is doing is amazing. He is taking a team that has been miserable putting them on his back and making them relivent. The Skins offense the past 10 seasons could barely avg 14 points a game now there darn near averaging 30 a game its quite amazing. RG3 whether colts fans want to admit it is gonna change the way people look at the qb position HE"S LIGHT YEARS BETTER THAN CAM NEWTON AND HE'S A LEADER AND CAM'S A CRYBABY. I hear wait till next year well theres 11 weeks of tape and theres tape on the so called college offense and they can watch PANTHERS offensive tape to stop him too cause according to most of you it's the same offense YET NO ONE CAN STOP HIM. This league has never seen a guy that can run or pass with accuracy that is as smart as any QB in the league that is level headed and a leader like RG3. With RG3 it's pick your poisen. He's the reason wr's get so wide open its his duel threat. And I'll end it with this please answer this question....IF YOU WERE TO TALK TO ALL 32 D COORDINATORS IN THE NFL WHICH QB LUCK OR RG3 DO THEY HATE TO GAMEPLAN AGAINST THE MOST.....I GUARANTEE YOU 31 OF 32 WOULD SAY RG3. The coordinator that would pick Luck would probably be Greg Manusky and that would him just being politically correct.

Good post. He is like a Brady who can run. Far from a Cam Newton type.

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Lets be honest though that was said before the season. And the main reason people thought RG3 had better talent is because they thought he had a top 10 defense that would help him out and make him not have to do much. I don't know if you noticed but for the last 20 years my Redskins have sucked and been bottom feeders. You guys have 1 bad year and all of a sudden the talent there is worse. Another reason the media labeled us with more talent is because we had more wins than you last season but as I said in previous posts its because Painter was your qb and the Colts never addressed their backup QB like they should have because they had the iron man at qb. If Peyton doesnt get hurt last years team is a 10+ win team, please tell me if i'm wrong here? What RG3 is doing is amazing. He is taking a team that has been miserable putting them on his back and making them relivent. The Skins offense the past 10 seasons could barely avg 14 points a game now there darn near averaging 30 a game its quite amazing. RG3 whether colts fans want to admit it is gonna change the way people look at the qb position HE"S LIGHT YEARS BETTER THAN CAM NEWTON AND HE'S A LEADER AND CAM'S A CRYBABY. I hear wait till next year well theres 11 weeks of tape and theres tape on the so called college offense and they can watch PANTHERS offensive tape to stop him too cause according to most of you it's the same offense YET NO ONE CAN STOP HIM. This league has never seen a guy that can run or pass with accuracy that is as smart as any QB in the league that is level headed and a leader like RG3. With RG3 it's pick your poisen. He's the reason wr's get so wide open its his duel threat. And I'll end it with this please answer this question....IF YOU WERE TO TALK TO ALL 32 D COORDINATORS IN THE NFL WHICH QB LUCK OR RG3 DO THEY HATE TO GAMEPLAN AGAINST THE MOST.....I GUARANTEE YOU 31 OF 32 WOULD SAY RG3. The coordinator that would pick Luck would probably be Greg Manusky and that would him just being politically correct.

Sorry, but I've heard all this before, just about different players. People were saying the exact same thing last yr. about Cam. That he was going to "revolutionize the way the game is played" and yet this yr. he has sucked. Maybe RG3 will be better, but im not convinced after 11 games. and I have not seen the so called "amazingness" of RG3.

Luck has done every bit as much for the Colts(if not more) than RG3 has for the Skins.

People said Vince Young was going to revolutionize the QB position and yet, the man is out of football now.

People said after Mannings and Leafs rookie yr. that Leaf was the better QB because he had a better yr. than Manning statistically.

I know, your gonna say, that RG3 is not Leaf, Young, Newton, or whoever you want to say, but the simple fact is, that You, me, or anyone else knows what the future holds for either guy. Im glad the Skins fans are happy with RG3, but as a Colts fan, Im ecstatic to have Luck here. IMO, he will be the better QB and have a better career. Like I said though, thats my opinion and the only thing that will change it is if in 5 yrs. Luck is an average QB and RG3 is dominating the league.

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Sorry, but I've heard all this before, just about different players. People were saying the exact same thing last yr. about Cam. That he was going to "revolutionize the way the game is played" and yet this yr. he has sucked. Maybe RG3 will be better, but im not convinced after 11 games. and I have not seen the so called "amazingness" of RG3.

Luck has done every bit as much for the Colts(if not more) than RG3 has for the Skins.

People said Vince Young was going to revolutionize the QB position and yet, the man is out of football now.

People said after Mannings and Leafs rookie yr. that Leaf was the better QB because he had a better yr. than Manning statistically.

I know, your gonna say, that RG3 is not Leaf, Young, Newton, or whoever you want to say, but the simple fact is, that You, me, or anyone else knows what the future holds for either guy. Im glad the Skins fans are happy with RG3, but as a Colts fan, Im ecstatic to have Luck here. IMO, he will be the better QB and have a better career. Like I said though, thats my opinion and the only thing that will change it is if in 5 yrs. Luck is an average QB and RG3 is dominating the league.

I hear you like I said in previous posts I think Luck will win a SB or 2 or 3 lol depending on what the organization puts around him to help him. And I believe RG3 will do the same based on the right decisions made by the skins organization. I think both can take an average team to a SB one day thats how good i think they are. Ive just seen how bad the skins were the last 20 years and seen the difference this kid has made already. Luck on the other hand just 2 years ago I saw and 12 years before that I saw the Colts in the playoffs. And if youre telling me watching that thanksgiving game you didnt see AMAZINGNESS from RG3 I know your fibbing to prove your point lol. I am impressed with Luck based on replacing Manning thats alot of pressure to have on his shoulders I will give him that.

Also the QB's you bring up Vince Young, Ryan Leaf, Cam Newton what do they all have in common? They are all head cases Cam not as much a head case as the other 2 but he's more of a crybaby and unprofessional. Look at his press conferences HECK look at the Monday night game before the half he was whining and yelling at coaches because the coaches wanted to run the clock. RG3 is no headcase and he's a LEADER. Thats why in my opinion your examples make no sense. I can use the same sort of examples for Luck but I know it would be dumb.....People say he's the best prospect since Elway he's the #1 pick so he has to be the best....I could counter with well David Carr Joey Harrington Alex Smith BLAH BLAH BLAH...you get my point.

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The best rookie qb class ever in my opinion

There's a chance, but we won't know for about ten or so more years.

Here's a selfish, mean spirited thought. I hope that when Brady decides to hang it up there's no 'sure thing' waiting for them in the draft.

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I hear you like I said in previous posts I think Luck will win a SB or 2 or 3 lol depending on what the organization puts around him to help him. And I believe RG3 will do the same based on the right decisions made by the skins organization. I think both can take an average team to a SB one day thats how good i think they are. Ive just seen how bad the skins were the last 20 years and seen the difference this kid has made already. Luck on the other hand just 2 years ago I saw and 12 years before that I saw the Colts in the playoffs. And if youre telling me watching that thanksgiving game you didnt see AMAZINGNESS from RG3 I know your fibbing to prove your point lol. I am impressed with Luck based on replacing Manning thats alot of pressure to have on his shoulders I will give him that.

I didn't see most of the Thanksgiving day game for the Skins so I can't speak for that game. Im not saying that RG3 hasn't been impressive, I just don't think he's like a football God that can walk on water like the media has made him out to be. He is an impressive rookie, but IMO thats it. I have seen his recievers make some unbelievable catches on poorly thrown balls. I've seen them get crazy yds after the catch. This has helped pump up RG3's numbers. I'm really not trying to take away his accomplishments but the unbelievable hype for him is kind of nauseating IMO. I would probably enjoy his success a little more if the media didn't make him out to be the greatest football player that ever graced the world with his appearance. He's been good, but he's not the most amazing thing I've ever seen.

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There's a chance, but we won't know for about ten or so more years.

Here's a selfish, mean spirited thought. I hope that when Brady decides to hang it up there's no 'sure thing' waiting for them in the draft.

That sure thing may very well be on their team already.

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