Luck vs rg3

[thecardiacrll]

50+ guys that before the season everybody said was a bunch of scrubs, castoffs, and rookies. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY thought the Colts even had a glimmer of a chance at the playoffs and Luck is a huge reason why they do have that chance, but now, since the Colts are where they are many of their detractors are saying that Luck has better weapons and a better defense than RG3. That goes back to the Colts actually having good coaching as well as a clutch rookie QB that has no quit in him. It also speaks volume's about how people will change their arguments to fit their personal agenda's.

First of all we both know what people said before the season means nothing. People were picking the Panthers to win the NFC South look where there at. They picked the bucs to be last they picked yall to be last. Pete Prisco said the Redskins would only win 2 games and never score over 28 points. My point is you have to wait and see a few games and theres no doubt you have a better defense and better WR's than the Redskins. And as far as the throw to Garcon on Thanksgiving please watch the highlight he threw a little behind him on purpose if he led him bruce carter was there to pick him off even Aikman said it was a perfect pass where only the WR could catch it. And what about the back shoulder throw to Santana for a TD or the 3rd down conversion to Santana that went in between 2 cowboys DB's right into santana's gut. You say he hasent been great most of the media says hes a possible MVP candidate not just ROY candidate. If he leads the Skins to the playoffs I gurantee he will be top 3 in MVP voting. Peyton will probably win it.

[TKnight24]

Put it like this, RG3 will be Cam Newton next year in the Sophomore Slump. While Mr. Luck is on route to a great Career

[Nobody]

50+ guys that before the season everybody said was a bunch of scrubs, castoffs, and rookies. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY thought the Colts even had a glimmer of a chance at the playoffs

Actually, even I didn't think we had a chance

[salmonella]

Just look at the splits, I think that would solve the whole accuracy question. it will be interesting to see how these would get the spin treatment, but the whole 'screen argument' argument does not hold much water based on this:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/25711/passing_splits.html

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/25712/passing_splits.html

[thecardiacrll]

Put it like this, RG3 will be Cam Newton next year in the Sophomore Slump. While Mr. Luck is on route to a great Career

Rg3 is light years ahead of Cam in the passing game and the most important part of being a QB and thats poise and leadership it's why I think RG3 and Luck will both win multiple Superbowls

[salmonella]

Put it like this, RG3 will be Cam Newton next year in the Sophomore Slump. While Mr. Luck is on route to a great Career

Luck is only completing 56% of his passes that go 11-20 yds downfield. That is below average for a top QB, he really needs to get better and hopefully can do that in the offseason.

[rdskns4eva]

I've watched every Redskins game this year. RG3 doesnt throw alot of "dump off" passes. Actually, the RB in this offense have about the same amount of catches as the RB's in the Colts offense. They dont account for much in the passing game at all.

Again, the Redskins run a variation of the West Coast offense. West coast offenses use screens and short passes to open up the big play down field. RG3 and the coaching staff are running it to perfection. It's like saying Steve Young and Joe Montana were accurate because they threw short all the time. Not saying RG3 is either of those guys, but c'mon. Give credit were credit is due. He is a very accurate passer. The stats show it, the eye test shows it. Period, end of story.

[TKnight24]

Luck is only completing 56% of his passes that go 11-20 yds downfield. That is below average for a top QB, he really needs to get better and hopefully can do that in the offseason.

Doing all that with a patchwork oline and a nonexistent running game. 7-4 record and is still doing well.

[TKnight24]

I've watched every Redskins game this year. RG3 doesnt throw alot of "dump off" passes. Actually, the RB in this offense have about the same amount of catches as the RB's in the Colts offense. They dont account for much in the passing game at all.

Again, the Redskins run a variation of the West Coast offense. West coast offenses use screens and short passes to open up the big play down field. RG3 and the coaching staff are running it to perfection. It's like saying Steve Young and Joe Montana were accurate because they threw short all the time. Not saying RG3 is either of those guys, but c'mon. Give credit were credit is due. He is a very accurate passer. The stats show it, the eye test shows it. Period, end of story.

I'll give him the credit when he plays a good defense that is worth talking about. The Eagles let him throw almost a perfect game. Wasn't even a point for their Defense to show up

[braveheartcolt]

Your "debate" isn't much for quality as it is...

You are a classy guy.

[salmonella]

Doing all that with a patchwork oline and a nonexistent running game. 7-4 record and is still doing well.

Yeah, that seems about right...

[Balzer40]

Just look at the splits, I think that would solve the whole accuracy question. it will be interesting to see how these would get the spin treatment, but the whole 'screen argument' argument does not hold much water based on this:

http://sportsillustr...ing_splits.html

http://sportsillustr...ing_splits.html

How do you get that? By those numbers 203 of his 304 attempts have been for 10 yds. or less. That is more than I even thought and just clarifies what I've been saying all along. When that many of your attempts are for that short of yardage, its pretty easy to have such a high completion percentage.

[TKnight24]

Yeah, that seems about right...

Exactly, this is why Andrew Luck is the better quarterback in my opinion

[rdskns4eva]

It's crazy to make these comparisons right now. Luck is playing in an offense that attacks downfield, so he is not going to have a high percentage of completions at this point.

I will speculate this. Just like Cam Newton last year, the NFL takes about a year to adjust to a running QB like RG3 Once they do, it is usually downhill from there. I expected RG3 to have a rough second year, while I expect that Luck will continue to get better because he will get better players around him and will get more adjusted to an offense that is very foreign to him. I think over a three year period, you won't be able to even compare these guys anymore.

I dont agree with this. No one has figured out Vick's speed yet. He can still burn you on runs. Vick has NEVER been an accurate QB, even during his days with Atlanta. He had the one outlier season with Philly a couple of years ago, but that wasnt the norm with Vick.

RG3's has Vicks speed, but he is a heck of a lot more accurate. I mean, they are in 2 different leagues when it comes to pocket passer play. Vick keys in one one reciever and either tries to force it there or takes off and runs.

In RG3's rookie season, we've seen him

1. Go through his progressions

2. Look off safeties

3. Show amazing poise in the pocket and pocket pressence (for a rookie)

4. Can throw bullets or throw with touch

This is stuff that Vick STILL doesnt show on a consistent basis.

[salmonella]

How do you get that? By those numbers 203 of his 304 attempts have been for 10 yds. or less. That is more than I even thought and just clarifies what I've been saying all along. When that many of your attempts are for that short of yardage, its pretty easy to have such a high completion percentage.

Screens are thrown behind the line of scrimmage. Look at the completion % at all splits, who is the more accurate passer?

[Qwiz]

Exactly, this is why Andrew Luck is the better quarterback in my opinion

Impossible to tell at this point. They are both young in their careers. Griffin has defenders talking about him and complimenting how fast, athletic, and accurate he is to the media, while 12 has more wins. They are in completely different systems and the only way this will be determined is by who wins more Super Bowls and does what he can with his patched together team. Both of them are doing this at this point, so to declare one better than the other is hard to do, but I respect your opinion.

[Qwiz]

I dont agree with this. No one has figured out Vick's speed yet. He can still burn you on runs. Vick has NEVER been an accurate QB, even during his days with Atlanta. He had the one outlier season with Philly a couple of years ago, but that wasnt the norm with Vick.

RG3's has Vicks speed, but he is a heck of a lot more accurate. I mean, they are in 2 different leagues when it comes to pocket passer play. Vick keys in one one reciever and either tries to force it there or takes off and runs.

In RG3's rookie season, we've seen him

1. Go through his progressions

2. Look off safeties

3. Show amazing poise in the pocket and pocket pressence (for a rookie)

4. Can throw bullets or throw with touch

This is stuff that Vick STILL doesnt show on a consistent basis.

I agree. For some reason most people who aren't Redskins fans seem to think that Griffin is a pure runner and is exactly like Newton or Vick when it isn't that way at all. He is a great passer who was also blessed with great athleticism. And it helps him get the respect that he has gotten this year, I don't see it going away anytime soon.

[salmonella]

I agree. For some reason most people who aren't Redskins fans seem to think that Griffin is a pure runner and is exactly like Newton or Vick when it isn't that way at all. He is a great passer who was also blessed with great athleticism. And it helps him get the respect that he has gotten this year, I don't see it going away anytime soon.

Objectivity is tough to achieve...

[Balzer40]

Screens are thrown behind the line of scrimmage. Look at the completion % at all splits, who is the more accurate passer?

Screens are not just behind the line of scrimmage, In fact, that would be called a lateral. I did look at all the splits and of course RG3 has the higher accuracy rating, but he also has 145 less attempts. You can not accurately judge accuracy numbers unless they have the exact same amount of attempts at all the same distances. The point is people say that RG3 does not throw many screens or dump offs and that is not true at all. The far majority of his passes are screens and dump offs. The stats you posted proves it.

[Qwiz]

Objectivity is tough to achieve...

Yes, unfortunately. Always has been for a lot of people.

[rdskns4eva]

I'll give him the credit when he plays a good defense that is worth talking about. The Eagles let him throw almost a perfect game. Wasn't even a point for their Defense to show up

Yea because Jax (*2), Tennessee (*2) Clevland, Miami and Buffalo have amazing defenses lol

By the way, the Eagles have the 14th ranked Defense in the NFL. Yea, they are a BAD team. But it is what it is.

[TKnight24]

Yea because Jax (*2), Tennessee (*2) Clevland, Miami and Buffalo have amazing defenses lol

By the way, the Eagles have the 14th ranked Defense in the NFL. Yea, they are a BAD team. But it is what it is.

Ok, does Luck control who he plays in the division?? Geographical wise, we're supposed to be with Brady or Big Ben. Bottomline, I'll wait till Mr. RG3 plays the Ravens or someone

[Qwiz]

Ok, does Luck control who he plays in the division?? Geographical wise, we're supposed to be with Brady or Big Ben. Bottomline, I'll wait till Mr. RG3 plays the Ravens or someone

Despite who he has played, Griffin has his team in position for a playoff run in the NFC East, something a lot of people thought was at least two years away. He very nearly beat the Giants the first time around if not for his defense giving up a score in the last seconds, so the guy is nearly undefeated in his own division. I chose the Redskins to win the East before this year, here's hoping that I'm right.

[rdskns4eva]

Ok, does Luck control who he plays in the division?? Geographical wise, we're supposed to be with Brady or Big Ben. Bottomline, I'll wait till Mr. RG3 plays the Ravens or someone

Ok, does RG3 control who he plays in the division?? You are the one that brought up the Eagles. SO I bring up Lucks competition and I'm wrong now? C'mon dude, really?

Geographical wise? I dont know what your point is here.

Rg3 played the Giants. I think most people consider them an elite team.

[SteelCityColt]

Despite who he has played, Griffin has his team in position for a playoff run in the NFC East, something a lot of people thought was at least two years away. He very nearly beat the Giants the first time around if not for his defense giving up a score in the last seconds, so the guy is nearly undefeated in his own division. I chose the Redskins to win the East before this year, here's hoping that I'm right.

Here's you hoping your not or the RG trolls really will be insufferable

Dear god if we had a Skins-Colts SB the world might just explode.

Far too early to judge both definitively, both teams got The QB they wanted and I feel both QBs went to the teams they wanted. Can't we all just be happy with our own and just get along. The trolling and homering on both sides is getting silly.

They're both very good and I've enjoyed watching both this season. I do prefer Luck but hey in the words of TO "That's my Quarterback man".

[TKnight24]

Despite who he has played, Griffin has his team in position for a playoff run in the NFC East, something a lot of people thought was at least two years away. He very nearly beat the Giants the first time around if not for his defense giving up a score in the last seconds, so the guy is nearly undefeated in his own division. I chose the Redskins to win the East before this year, here's hoping that I'm right.

Comes down to Monday

[Qwiz]

Here's you hoping your not or the RG trolls really will be insufferable

Dear god if we had a Skins-Colts SB the world might just explode.

Far too early to judge both definitively, both teams got The QB they wanted and I feel both QBs went to the teams they wanted. Can't we all just be happy with our own and just get along. The trolling and homering on both sides is getting silly.

They're both very good and I've enjoyed watching both this season. I do prefer Luck but hey in the words of TO "That's my Quarterback man".

Yes, there are a few Redskins posters that are annoying, but they aren't all that way lol. The world is going to explode one day...I think Griffin and 12 are indeed going to face each other in the big game eventually. That would be the media's best SB match-up ever, with the exception of the Giants facing the Broncos hahaha.

[TKnight24]

Ok, does RG3 control who he plays in the division?? You are the one that brought up the Eagles. SO I bring up Lucks competition and I'm wrong now? C'mon dude, really?

Geographical wise? I dont know what your point is here.

Rg3 played the Giants. I think most people consider them an elite team.

The NFC East is the best division in the nfl imo. But the Eagles flatout suck this year. Like I said, when RG3 plays an Elite Defense and does well. I'll give him the full credit. No question he's accurate, but he hasn't played a top D

[Qwiz]

Comes down to Monday

Yep. Thank goodness I'm off, too good to miss! :clap:

[TKnight24]

Yes, there are a few Redskins posters that are annoying, but they aren't all that way lol. The world is going to explode one day...I think Griffin and 12 are indeed going to face each other in the big game eventually. That would be the media's best SB match-up ever, with the exception of the Giants facing the Broncos hahaha.

Eli sits at the dinner table on knowing Peyton is better than him

[Qwiz]

Eli sits at the dinner table on knowing Peyton is better than him

[Jason_]

Screens are not just behind the line of scrimmage, In fact, that would be called a lateral. I did look at all the splits and of course RG3 has the higher accuracy rating, but he also has 145 less attempts. You can not accurately judge accuracy numbers unless they have the exact same amount of attempts at all the same distances. The point is people say that RG3 does not throw many screens or dump offs and that is not true at all. The far majority of his passes are screens and dump offs. The stats you posted proves it.

In fact, no it would not. A lateral can be from anywhere on the field, whether in front of or behind the line of scrimmage. A lateral is a pass thrown by one player to another player who is further back on the field than the person throwing the ball. This doesn't have to be behind the LOS. Alternately, a forward pass can be thrown by one player to another player who is also behind the LOS, so long as the player throwing the ball is behind the player receiving the ball. Both players can be behind the LOS.

Also I do believe that a screen, by definition, is thrown to a receiver who still is behind the LOS at the point where he catches the ball.

[Jason_]

The NFC East is the best division in the nfl imo. But the Eagles flatout suck this year. Like I said, when RG3 plays an Elite Defense and does well. I'll give him the full credit. No question he's accurate, but he hasn't played a top D

And which elite D has Luck beaten? that was rdskns4eva's point. you claim that you're not sold on RG3 because RG3 hasn't played a top defense, but Luck hasn't either, so based on your own criteria, how can you then be sold on Luck?

[Jason_]

Yes, unfortunately. Always has been for a lot of people.

AMEN!!!!

[thecardiacrll]

The NFC East is the best division in the nfl imo. But the Eagles flatout suck this year. Like I said, when RG3 plays an Elite Defense and does well. I'll give him the full credit. No question he's accurate, but he hasn't played a top D

Giants? and he played very well against them and got screwed by his defense. You get your wish though the Skins play the Ravens next week.

[TKnight24]

And which elite D has Luck beaten? that was rdskns4eva's point. you claim that you're not sold on RG3 because RG3 hasn't played a top defense, but Luck hasn't either, so based on your own criteria, how can you then be sold on Luck?

Weren't the Dolphins a top D when we played them??? And the Vikings weren't too shabby either when we played

[TKnight24]

Giants? and he played very well against them and got screwed by his defense. You get your wish though the Skins play the Ravens next week.

Well wasn't just the Defense. Didn't the Offense fumble a lot too???

[thecardiacrll]

Well wasn't just the Defense. Didn't the Offense fumble a lot too???

yeah 4 turnovers in the 2nd half. Big 2 were Morris fumbling in FG range and Santana fumbling as we were driving after the Cruz TD.

[SteelCityColt]

Yes, there are a few Redskins posters that are annoying, but they aren't all that way lol. The world is going to explode one day...I think Griffin and 12 are indeed going to face each other in the big game eventually. That would be the media's best SB match-up ever, with the exception of the Giants facing the Broncos hahaha.

Agree with you, I don't mind a good debate but this has just turned into a my Dad's (Pa?) is bigger than yours school yard argument.

Part of the problem I think as I've stated before is the traditional metrics for QBs are less relevant in the modern game. A shortfall that will get worse as I personally believe Luck and Griffin are the heralds of a new era of QB type. No more "pocket passer" or "scrambling" pidgeonholing.

I'll admit pre-draft that I was not sold on Griffin but he's justified why he was considered a legitimate #1 pick. Looking beyond these two the rest if the class isn't half bad with the likes of Wilson and Tannehill. Man if your a Chiefs fan you must be sick looking at the QB prospects in the upcoming draft in comparison.

Exciting times for ALL NFL fans ahead

[TKnight24]

yeah 4 turnovers in the 2nd half. Big 2 were Morris fumbling in FG range and Santana fumbling as we were driving after the Cruz TD.

So the Team lost the game. Rare you Win with that many Turnovers