Dwight Freeney & Robert Mathis move to OLB

[TKnight24]

Understand this people, this is not Permanent. Coach Pagano said & I quote "You wouldn't be here if we didn't see something in you". So they obviously see something in Freeney & Mathis by putting them at OLB's. Now, yes they could be Wrong...but that's why they can change it. None of us have actually seen them play OLB so how do we know if they can cover on not. And with Fleener & Allen similar to Gronkowski & Hernadez... If they can keep pace with Fleener & Allen, they can handle ANY TE in the League PERIOD!

[FireJimCaldwell]

Exactly, i think this Defense will be better than the Defense in PEyton's Rookie Year. Andrew Luck will have a Defense that can get him the Ball

They will be far better than the 98 defense.

[NewColtsFan]

Yea the ravens use Terrell Suggs almost exclusively as a rusher and yes Houston did the same thing with Mario. However, we don't have just one question mark in coverage, we have two. I'm equally as worried about Mathis as I am Freeney. I look at our scheme and I wonder: If Freeney is extremely liable in coverage we will need to put his hand in the dirt and rush him almost every play. But if Mathis is the exact same type of player as Freeney, we need to rush him every play as well. Then aren't we essentially running a 5-2 every play. Yea we're gonna get to the QB often but we're going to be awful in coverage and give up some really big run plays as well.

For reasons far more than just being a long-time Stanford fan, I think poster "Luck2Fleener" has captured my thoughts as well. If Mathis also is sub-par in pass coverage and he's limited almost exclusively to rushing the QB, then we're running a 5-2 and our 2 LB's have lots and lots of ground to cover.

Look... if we can all talk about it, then no doubt the coaches and front office have dealt with this as well. The defense should be improved if for no other reason it's not likely it could be as bad as it was last year. Some changes in personnel combined with a chance in philosophy should spell up-grade to that side of the ball.

I think we're in agreement. The question we won't know is..... to what degree. How much improvement will there be. And whatever we see week one, it might get better by week 8 and much, much better by week 12.... it's going to be a work in progress all year long.

I don't mean to be stating the obvious, even if I have.... I'm just saying what we're in for is a marathon and not a sprint and the results won't be known for a long, long time...

NewColtsFan

[coltsguy510]

Where is everyone getting this new photo? I want one!

[Superman]

Yea the ravens use Terrell Suggs almost exclusively as a rusher and yes Houston did the same thing with Mario. However, we don't have just one question mark in coverage, we have two. I'm equally as worried about Mathis as I am Freeney. I look at our scheme and I wonder: If Freeney is extremely liable in coverage we will need to put his hand in the dirt and rush him almost every play. But if Mathis is the exact same type of player as Freeney, we need to rush him every play as well. Then aren't we essentially running a 5-2 every play. Yea we're gonna get to the QB often but we're going to be awful in coverage and give up some really big run plays as well.

No, we're not. We won't exclusively be a 3-4 team. (Do we need to create a scrolling banner that says this?) We will go four-down plenty, just like the Ravens did (52% of the time last year).

Another thing, we're not using Freeney as a rusher because he's a liability in coverage. We're using him as a rusher because he's phenomenal at rushing the passer. Same thing with Mathis. It's not "these guys can't cover, so we need to use them as blitzers." It's "these guys are incredible at rushing the passer, so why would we be using them in coverage?"

Our 3-4 look is going to be versatile, and our 4-3 look is going to be more traditional. Both will be effective against the run and the pass, although we'll probably use the 3-4 more on early downs and the 4-3 on late downs. We'll still play a good amount of zone defense. We're still going to have a lot of work to do.

[Superman]

Understand this people, this is not Permanent. Coach Pagano said & I quote "You wouldn't be here if we didn't see something in you". So they obviously see something in Freeney & Mathis by putting them at OLB's. Now, yes they could be Wrong...but that's why they can change it. None of us have actually seen them play OLB so how do we know if they can cover on not. And with Fleener & Allen similar to Gronkowski & Hernadez... If they can keep pace with Fleener & Allen, they can handle ANY TE in the League PERIOD!

So, of all the linebackers we have, you'd use Freeney and Mathis to cover tight ends?

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

in one of the videos pags said something on the lines of mathis covering fleener on a in route.... staying with him and breaking on the ball. keep in mind fleener is very fast and mobile but hearing that now in otas i say positive

[HtownColt]

When freeney and Mathis do drop in coverage they are going to be covering hook to flat they not going to be man to man on anybody..just go look at some Demarcus Ware tape and you will see all Ware was responsible for when he did drop back was hook to flat

[funktacious2]

This may help them with pass rushing, but will probably hurt our pass coverage.

[coltsfanatic24]

both will excel i just hope we dont give 10 yard cushion to the wr.

[HtownColt]

I just like you get to see Freeney all over the field and not just against the top tackles in the game. Pagano gets to find the weak link in the o line and exploit it with Freeney and Mathis which I love to see. Back in the day it was Freeney vs the(Jake Long,Matt Light, Joe Thomas,Marcus McNeil, Ryan Clady etc) now he can go up against the weakest link on the o line sometimes

[COLT in J-ville]

Crashing off the corners he should be fine. Trying to cover anyone is asking for a loaf of toast. Maybe some short drop zones, but man to man. Toast City.

I really like the phrase "loaf of toast"

[TKnight24]

So, of all the linebackers we have, you'd use Freeney and Mathis to cover tight ends?

Freeney & Mathis will probably only Cover on 1st Down if they need to. 3rd & Long, we all know they're rushing the QB. Now 2nd Down, maybe A.J. Edds or someone gets subbed in for Coverage. But it really depends on who the opposing TE is. Not every team has a GOOD TE. So if the TE sucks, why not let Freeney & Mathis Cover him?

[TKnight24]

both will excel i just hope we dont give 10 yard cushion to the wr.

That was when we ran the Tampa 2. I think the Days may be over now. Our CB's will probably get a little more Physical this year. And when that happens, I see Chris Rucker getting LOTS of Playing Time. He's really a Physical CB

[TKnight24]

They will be far better than the 98 defense.

I know they will. So people need to Stop doubting Luck saying he won't Produce or he'll be a Bust. When he was at Stanford playing in that Fiesta Bowl vs OKS... he really WON that Game. But thanks to a Freshman Kicker & Terrible Defense.... Stanford as a WHOLE took an L. Luck & Fleener SHREDDED their D. But now Luck will have a Defense that will get off the Field & give him the Ball. If we do that, there's no doubt that we can prove all the doubters wrong & Luck goes on to have a GREAT Rookie Season

[TKnight24]

I just like you get to see Freeney all over the field and not just against the top tackles in the game. Pagano gets to find the weak link in the o line and exploit it with Freeney and Mathis which I love to see. Back in the day it was Freeney vs the(Jake Long,Matt Light, Joe Thomas,Marcus McNeil, Ryan Clady etc) now he can go up against the weakest link on the o line sometimes

Yeah, but it really was Freeney & Mathis vs 5 O-Lineman. Once they both got Doubled, the Game was pretty much over for our PAss Rush. But now with McKinney, Chapman, Redding, Nevis, & Hughes..... I want to see who O-Lines Double Team now hahaahhahaha :highfive:

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Yea the ravens use Terrell Suggs almost exclusively as a rusher and yes Houston did the same thing with Mario. However, we don't have just one question mark in coverage, we have two. I'm equally as worried about Mathis as I am Freeney.

Mathis ran with the rookie Fleener on a wheel route and broke up the pass. Mathis'll be just fine.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

in one of the videos pags said something on the lines of mathis covering fleener on a in route.... staying with him and breaking on the ball. keep in mind fleener is very fast and mobile but hearing that now in otas i say positive

^^^^^that^^^^^

[mvbighead]

Yeesh, OLB in the 3-4 are largely responsible for pass rushing, and a good amount responsible for run containment. Coverage is a smidgeon of their duties.

As for how they'll do. If healthy, I'd guess that each gets 10+ sacks, like they always do. Now, instead of 2 nothings with their hands in the dirt in the middle, we'll have three guys.

Redding I see as a solid role player, better than what we've had. Not spectacular, but good enough.

Chapman/McKinney I see as big guys that hopefully have the power to clog a lane in the middle, and occasionally occupy two blockers.

Moala/Nevis/Mathews are guys that should benefit from the scheme. Nevis is has great burst, Moala seems to have good technique for the position, and Mathews seems to be a good blend of technique and decent burst. None of them are world beaters, but with more attention being shifted elsewhere, they should benefit.

Freeney/Mathis - With the addition of Redding as a 3-4 DE, and Chapman/McKinney as decent NTs, and having a third lineman up, there should be plenty of potential for increased pressure, disguise, and what have you. In terms of getting to the QB, I think both will excel. In terms of run support, I think both will be adequate. In terms of coverage, I think both will do ok when called upon, but it won't be often.

[bavanlan]

I'm viewing our 3-4 alignment as effectively (as opposed to literally) being a 5-2 alignment with an occasional zone blitz.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I know they will. So people need to Stop doubting Luck saying he won't Produce or he'll be a Bust. When he was at Stanford playing in that Fiesta Bowl vs OKS... he really WON that Game. But thanks to a Freshman Kicker & Terrible Defense.... Stanford as a WHOLE took an L. Luck & Fleener SHREDDED their D. But now Luck will have a Defense that will get off the Field & give him the Ball. If we do that, there's no doubt that we can prove all the doubters wrong & Luck goes on to have a GREAT Rookie Season

If I recall correctly this thread was about Freeney and Mathis and the Defense.

[oldunclemark]

As we all know, our Two Best Pass Rushers are now OLB's. Does anyone see anything Negative with this Move? Or are there more Positives than Negatives to this Move?

The only negatives will be if they themselves dont accept the change..

its one thing to say it..but they may be confused with assignents on some plays...and may be pulled at times

If they accept it and can adjust to it, it can be nothing but a plus

.You have ace pass rusher now coming from unpredictable locations

If he can make the change..it wil obviously extend Mathis' career....physically..he's a blitzing linebacker anyway, always has been.

Dwight Freeney is going to have to make a big adjuistment and I'm not sure the new coaches will adjust to him by simply letting him be what he has been...a touch-the-ground D-end on 2nd and 3rd downs...

[oldunclemark]

If I recall correctly this thread was about Freeney and Mathis and the Defense.

That's kinda what i thought...FJC

If I was to guess....I'd say that Mathis will adjust well, live long and prosper..

..and Dwight will struggle with the change and may end by being solely a third down player in his final year woth the Colts

[oldunclemark]

Mathis ran with the rookie Fleener on a wheel route and broke up the pass. Mathis'll be just fine.

That's good to hear, Brian.....I think this move extends his career..

He was always to small to be a conventional lineman.......

[oldunclemark]

So, of all the linebackers we have, you'd use Freeney and Mathis to cover tight ends?

I'd have Mathis cover a tight end...as Brian suggests..... not Freeney...

[Creekside]

Which is why I don't understand why anyone thinks Freeney is going to be used in coverage to any significant degree. He'll drop into a short zone or go to the flat every once in a while, but people are acting like he's going to go man to man with Rob Gronkowski. He's not. If he does, Manusky and Pagano deserve to be caned.

............I'm concerned that the good QB's will successfully force Freeney (and Mathis) into coverage more than may be anticipated.....making them think out there ...occassionally even confusing them......

[Superman]

............I'm concerned that the good QB's will successfully force Freeney (and Mathis) into coverage more than may be anticipated.....making them think out there ...occassionally even confusing them......

Why not just go nickel 4-2-5 against those quarterbacks, with Mathis and Freeney at end? Why would our coaching staff use players who have no experience as coverage linebackers in coverage against good quarterbacks and tight ends? Wouldn't you just play them at end primarily in those matchups?

[Creekside]

Why not just go nickel 4-2-5 against those quarterbacks, with Mathis and Freeney at end? Why would our coaching staff use players who have no experience as coverage linebackers in coverage against good quarterbacks and tight ends? Wouldn't you just play them at end primarily in those matchups?

...........good offenses catch defenses in mis-matches...we all watched Manning do it for years....hurry- up offense..don't let the defense substitute......think the likes of Brady and Brees, or any half-way decent QB for that matter are going to allow the Colts to substitute at will?....This is going to be a potential problem for the Colts....

[Superman]

...........good offenses catch defenses in mis-matches...we all watched Manning do it for years....hurry- up offense..don't let the defense substitute......think the likes of Brady and Brees, or any half-way decent QB for that matter are going to allow the Colts to substitute at will?....This is going to be a potential problem for the Colts....

What kind of mismatch will there be if we go nickel and play Mathis and Freeney at end? It won't have anything to do with whether or not they can cover.

[Andy]

I really don't see anything wrong... I mean I look at the Mario Williams situation and see no negatives. I actually see them reaching double digits sacks like they used to.

imo, best move they could have done.

[Coffeedrinker]

My word, some people try to act like Freeney and Mathis have never played football before and that Pagano's D requires Rhode Scholars at every position. It's football you have an assignment and then you chase the guy with the football. Will they make mistakes? Probably. Did Suggs or J. Johnson make mistakes in the D last year? Probably. But in the end it's football... hit the guy on the other team.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Coffeedrinker

[Coffeedrinker]

...........good offenses catch defenses in mis-matches...we all watched Manning do it for years....hurry- up offense..don't let the defense substitute......think the likes of Brady and Brees, or any half-way decent QB for that matter are going to allow the Colts to substitute at will?....This is going to be a potential problem for the Colts....

If it were that easy then teams would do it all the time. The fact of the matter is it's not that easy and offenses like to substitute players as well and if the offense substitutes then the refs will allow the D time to substitute as well.

There is no such thing as the perfect D that is guaranteed to prevent the other team from scoring.

[Creekside]

If it were that easy then teams would do it all the time. The fact of the matter is it's not that easy and offenses like to substitute players as well and if the offense substitutes then the refs will allow the D time to substitute as well.

There is no such thing as the perfect D that is guaranteed to prevent the other team from scoring.

................when the Colts play the Broncos in the AFC Championship this year, you'll see what I'm talking about......

[HtownColt]

My word, some people try to act like Freeney and Mathis have never played football before and that Pagano's D requires Rhode Scholars at every position. It's football you have an assignment and then you chase the guy with the football. Will they make mistakes? Probably. Did Suggs or J. Johnson make mistakes in the D last year? Probably. But in the end it's football... hit the guy on the other team.

Preach!!!!!!! Been saying the same the for a while now

[Tark The Shark]

Understand this people, this is not Permanent. Coach Pagano said & I quote "You wouldn't be here if we didn't see something in you". So they obviously see something in Freeney & Mathis by putting them at OLB's. Now, yes they could be Wrong...but that's why they can change it. None of us have actually seen them play OLB so how do we know if they can cover on not. And with Fleener & Allen similar to Gronkowski & Hernadez... If they can keep pace with Fleener & Allen, they can handle ANY TE in the League PERIOD!

Well I would say that Fleener/Allen is more like Pollard/Clark with more athleticism, but I digress.

For the most part, I agree with everything you are saying. No one knows how Freeney and Mathis will do because for the better part of a decade, they have played one position with one goal in mind, to sack the QB, or strip the ball and sack the QB.

I find it exciting that now Freeney and Mathis can't be double teamed with them being all over the field and also having Redding, McKinney, Chapman, Moala, etc in front of them.

I think the defense will be the strong point this year. With our offense doing average with a bunch of new pieces.

[Coffeedrinker]

................when the Colts play the Broncos in the AFC Championship this year, you'll see what I'm talking about......

Will probably see it against the Bears in the first game of the season. So what? The other guys get paid too.

Again, show me a defense that does not get exploited from time to time, especially by an elite QB... that is one reason why they are elite, they exploit good defenses and great players

[RGIII]

Yeah, he mostly is. But he also does Coverage too. With Freeney's Speed, he'll be a better Coverage than T-Suggs. Once he gets the Basics down & whatnot

I wouldn't say that at all. Coverage as a 3-4 backer is about instincts way above and beyond pure athleticism. The fact that Freeney's natural coverage ability isn't exactly a known quantity and he's getting a very late start at learning the role puts him at a major disadvantage.

Understand this people, this is not Permanent. Coach Pagano said & I quote "You wouldn't be here if we didn't see something in you". So they obviously see something in Freeney & Mathis by putting them at OLB's.

Take coachspeak with a big grain of salt. Heard that same thing said about Andre Carter and he was a disaster in a stand-up role.

So, of all the linebackers we have, you'd use Freeney and Mathis to cover tight ends?

People develop strange impressions of schemes they aren't very familiar with. Any serious coverage responsibility is obviously going to fall to the ILBs, safeties, and cornerbacks. OLBs really just need to be able to cover the flats, short zones, and backs. They don't always make it look as easy as it sounds, though.

My word, some people try to act like Freeney and Mathis have never played football before and that Pagano's D requires Rhode Scholars at every position. It's football you have an assignment and then you chase the guy with the football. Will they make mistakes? Probably. Did Suggs or J. Johnson make mistakes in the D last year? Probably. But in the end it's football... hit the guy on the other team.

If only it were actually that simple to play the position

[ColtsBlueFL]

I am a touch worried if Freeney has to set the edge in some situations. Otherwise, I await the final scheme. It's the coaches job to place players in the best position to succeed.

[Malakai432]

Crashing off the corners he should be fine. Trying to cover anyone is asking for a loaf of toast. Maybe some short drop zones, but man to man. Toast City.

Yes but toast is also good, especially with jelly or butter, heck even throw a little of both on. I can't take your comment as being negative when toast is involved.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Yes but toast is also good, especially with jelly or butter, heck even throw a little of both on. I can't take your comment as being negative when toast is involved.

Enjoy