Wide receiving core

[HtownColt]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1170562-indianapolis-colts-receivers-to-duke-it-out-in-training-camp

So Bleacher Reports tackles and breaks down every receiver we have on our roster and makes their projections on how it will look which is Wayne and Collie on the outside with Collie playing in the slot as well. T.Y. Hilton to play the slot for the most part. Avery to back up Wayne. And Brazil to make team as 5th receiver. Whalen to be signed to Practice squad. And Fleener to split wide regularly and move Collie in the slot on occasions providing matchup headaches everywhere

[Coffeedrinker]

Sounds about right. Although I have some doubt if Avery makes it out of training camp. He looked really bad in limited action last year. Doesn't seem to have his old explosion any more. Combined with the Colts drafting two receiving TEs (yes I know one is considered a "complete" TE both excel at receiving) and drafting two WRs that offer the same type of deep threat, I think it will be tough for Avery.

I could see just 4 WRs on the active roster, 5 if one doubles as returner. and then 2 on the PS (Whalen and Ross?). Just MO.

[coltsfanej]

I like the way it shaped up after the draft, I was hoping for more size on the outside, but looks like we are leaving the size to the TEs and the outside will be all about speed.

Id like to see TY in the slot and Brazil to get some time on the outside. Id like for one of these guys to be a new Reggie for us in the future. Similar size and both seem to have good hands and quickness.

[CR91]

i dont see the point of putting collie outside. keep him in the slot where he excels and let avery burn guys deep with his so called 4.3 speed

[Coffeedrinker]

http://youtu.be/FYmbKz55ZEM

Best highlight clip of T Y Hilton that I've seen. His body control is elite.

Man, I don't know how to post video clips.

[ColtsDude27]

Here you go

[CR91]

we should get hilton in some wildcat packages, do some reserves, use his speed to make plays.

[Coffeedrinker]

Here you go

Show off.

Thanks.

[austriancolt]

we should get hilton in some wildcat packages, do some reserves, use his speed to make plays.

Hilton throws deep to Andrew Luck....Touchdown :-)

[oldunclemark]

http://bleacherrepor...n-training-camp

So Bleacher Reports tackles and breaks down every receiver we have on our roster and makes their projections on how it will look which is Wayne and Collie on the outside with Collie playing in the slot as well. T.Y. Hilton to play the slot for the most part. Avery to back up Wayne. And Brazil to make team as 5th receiver. Whalen to be signed to Practice squad. And Fleener to split wide regularly and move Collie in the slot on occasions providing matchup headaches everywhere

Splitting Fleener wide away from Reggie and the slot man is the wild card

..He'll always get single coverage and he can outjump any DB..

Or you can like up Allen on Fleener's side away from Wayne and Collie and run wide behind two tight ends

[HarassedOffTheSite]

i dont see the point of putting collie outside. keep him in the slot where he excels and let avery burn guys deep with his so called 4.3 speed

Yeah, that makes way too much sense....apparently. ;)

[mvbighead]

Sounds about right. Although I have some doubt if Avery makes it out of training camp. He looked really bad in limited action last year. Doesn't seem to have his old explosion any more. Combined with the Colts drafting two receiving TEs (yes I know one is considered a "complete" TE both excel at receiving) and drafting two WRs that offer the same type of deep threat, I think it will be tough for Avery.

I could see just 4 WRs on the active roster, 5 if one doubles as returner. and then 2 on the PS (Whalen and Ross?). Just MO.

My guess is, it'll be the 5 with two doubling as returners.

Probably starts off with Wayne on the left, Avery on the right, Collie working slot duties.

Hilton likely to be the primary backup to Avery, fill in at slot, etc. Brazill to be worked in on the outside from time to time.

I figure both Brazil and Hilton play the return role, Hilton likely being the primary. Then just hope to keep Avery healthy and see if he returns to form, and develop the youngsters to take over when needed or sooner if they prove to be better than our veterans.

Honestly, I like the looks of both of them. They're not big, but they make up for that with a lot of talent it seems, and the reason we were able to get them was due to their size.

[Coffeedrinker]

My guess is, it'll be the 5 with two doubling as returners.

Probably starts off with Wayne on the left, Avery on the right, Collie working slot duties.

Hilton likely to be the primary backup to Avery, fill in at slot, etc. Brazill to be worked in on the outside from time to time.

I figure both Brazil and Hilton play the return role, Hilton likely being the primary. Then just hope to keep Avery healthy and see if he returns to form, and develop the youngsters to take over when needed or sooner if they prove to be better than our veterans.

Honestly, I like the looks of both of them. They're not big, but they make up for that with a lot of talent it seems, and the reason we were able to get them was due to their size.

Could be with as you state with the returners. For the WR, I agree with Beacher report, in the two TE set we will see Wayne and Collie and then when they go with three wides moving Collie to the slot. Some think that will be Avery stepping in but I think it will be Hilton, I don't think Avery has anything left and he wasn't that great to begin with. You look at most receivers and sometimes they will take a step back with the sophmore jinx or whatever you want to call it but most receivers their worst year is their rookie year and then they gradually get better (if they don't they are not in the league for long). With Avery his best year was his rookie year, then his 2nd year he dropped in every major receiver catagory, some slightly, some significantly. Then he's been non existent in the NFL for the last 2 years (yes 2010 was because of injury, 2011 though was because he was no longer effective).

But that is what they have training camp for, hopefully Avery is fully recovered has his 2008 speed and agility back and can play a role in the Colts offense. If not, it's no biggie the Colts just signed him to a vet min. one year deal.

[21isSuperman]

Collie has shown he can do well in the slot and lined up outside. With that said, I would like to see Hilton or Avery on the outside because they have the speed to run the 9 route and beat defenders whereas Collie is a more polished route runner

[HtownColt]

Collie has shown he can do well in the slot and lined up outside. With that said, I would like to see Hilton or Avery on the outside because they have the speed to run the 9 route and beat defenders whereas Collie is a more polished route runner

its easier to beat defenders up the seam on a nickleback/safety/linebacker.rather than the #1 and #2 corners on other teams

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I would like to see Hilton or Avery on the outside because they have the speed to run the 9 route and beat defenders whereas Collie is a more polished route runner

Makes all the sense in the World. Reggie does not necessarily "stretch" defenses. Avery or even Hilton can.

Once those safeties are panicked, it is going to be that much easier for Fleener, Allen and Collie to do their thing.

[Coffeedrinker]

its easier to beat defenders up the seam on a nickleback/safety/linebacker.rather than the #1 and #2 corners on other teams

The Pats did that a lot when Brady broke the TD record. Many times Moss would start on the outside and then go in motion and get inside the slot receiver and then run a skinny post or seam route. I can't take credit for that observation I was watching a report when they were breaking down his TDs and 36 or 37 of his TDs were between the hash marks.

[21isSuperman]

its easier to beat defenders up the seam on a nickleback/safety/linebacker.rather than the #1 and #2 corners on other teams

True, but if you can have Avery line up on the outside and have him run a 9, then that will draw the safety back and towards the outside, away from the middle of the field. That not only opens up room in the middle deep 1/3rd of the field, but Collie, Fleener, or Allen can run a deep pattern in the middle of the field, opening it up even more for the other guys

[HtownColt]

True, but if you can have Avery line up on the outside and have him run a 9, then that will draw the safety back and towards the outside, away from the middle of the field. That not only opens up room in the middle deep 1/3rd of the field, but Collie, Fleener, or Allen can run a deep pattern in the middle of the field, opening it up even more for the other guys

problem is Avery never was a "legitimate" deep ball threat not even in college he was a catch a slant take it to the house guy

[HarassedOffTheSite]

smh

[21isSuperman]

problem is Avery never was a "legitimate" deep ball threat not even in college he was a catch a slant take it to the house guy

Oh, I see. Hm...then knowing that, would it be plausible to leave him on the outside and throw screens to him? Sounds like he is an elusive, hard to tackle runner. If that's the case, running screens with him might be a good idea. Or, as you said, run short patterns like slants and have him get pile on the YAC

[mvbighead]

Could be with as you state with the returners. For the WR, I agree with Beacher report, in the two TE set we will see Wayne and Collie and then when they go with three wides moving Collie to the slot. Some think that will be Avery stepping in but I think it will be Hilton, I don't think Avery has anything left and he wasn't that great to begin with. You look at most receivers and sometimes they will take a step back with the sophmore jinx or whatever you want to call it but most receivers their worst year is their rookie year and then they gradually get better (if they don't they are not in the league for long). With Avery his best year was his rookie year, then his 2nd year he dropped in every major receiver catagory, some slightly, some significantly. Then he's been non existent in the NFL for the last 2 years (yes 2010 was because of injury, 2011 though was because he was no longer effective).

But that is what they have training camp for, hopefully Avery is fully recovered has his 2008 speed and agility back and can play a role in the Colts offense. If not, it's no biggie the Colts just signed him to a vet min. one year deal.

I just don't see Collie as an every down guy. His confidence I can only assume will be shaken, and concussions are a totally different monster than other bodily injuries.

The main reason I would see Avery as the lead guy is due to Arians' MO. He has typically had speed everywhere. That is why we have Avery and Hilton, and to a lesser extent, Brazill. All of these guys fit what he has been doing in Pitt. Avery, to me fits something of a Mike Wallace role, stretch the field kinda stuff. He likely won't fit as well, but he supposedly has the speed to keep defenses concerned about his side, which should allow them to open up the coverage, and find more holes.

Granted, Hilton also could find himself in that role, and I honestly hope he does, but Avery being an NFL vet, likely has an upperhand on the position at this point in time.

[HtownColt]

Oh, I see. Hm...then knowing that, would it be plausible to leave him on the outside and throw screens to him? Sounds like he is an elusive, hard to tackle runner. If that's the case, running screens with him might be a good idea. Or, as you said, run short patterns like slants and have him get pile on the YAC

its just many ways to utilize all our receiving threats just put a stamp on what position they will play besides wayne

[21isSuperman]

problem is Avery never was a "legitimate" deep ball threat not even in college he was a catch a slant take it to the house guy

Actually, looking at this, he seems to be a pretty good deep threat

[HtownColt]

Actually, looking at this, he seems to be a pretty good deep threat

thats a highlight tape of course they going show his great moments but in know way is he a ima throw the ball 50yrds down field go get it type player in the nfl

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I just don't see Collie as an every down guy. His confidence I can only assume will be shaken, and concussions are a totally different monster than other bodily injuries. The main reason I would see Avery as the lead guy is due to Arians' MO. He has typically had speed everywhere. That is why we have Avery and Hilton, and to a lesser extent, Brazill. All of these guys fit what he has been doing in Pitt. Avery, to me fits something of a Mike Wallace role, stretch the field kinda stuff. He likely won't fit as well, but he supposedly has the speed to keep defenses concerned about his side, which should allow them to open up the coverage, and find more holes. Granted, Hilton also could find himself in that role, and I honestly hope he does, but Avery being an NFL vet, likely has an upperhand on the position at this point in time.

Basics.

That is why we got him.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Oh, I see. Hm...then knowing that, would it be plausible to leave him on the outside and throw screens to him? Sounds like he is an elusive, hard to tackle runner. If that's the case, running screens with him might be a good idea. Or, as you said, run short patterns like slants and have him get pile on the YAC

Of course. But there's no need to cut down his route tree. he's a legitimate #2. His hands are just as good as Garcon's. His route running is just as good as Garcon's. He is not as big as Garcon....just has more speed. Some have seized on coming off of an ACL and the incompetence of the Titans "brain"trust to try and discredit this kid. But IMO if the General Manager and Head Coach of the Indianapolis Colts wanted him......he's got what it takes to earn the #2.

We'll see....

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I just don't see Collie as an every down guy. His confidence I can only assume will be shaken, and concussions are a totally different monster than other bodily injuries.

I sure do hope he is back to every down form. We need a dependable slot. I assume Hilton was brought in as insurance just in case.

[GrizzColt]

Now, this won't happen, but I don't see why we have Reggie playing wide left. His lack of speed has relegated him to 10 yards curls and slants and he is slower than every CB he faces. I would have Collie and Avery as my wideouts and stick Reggie in the slot. He works great out of the slot cause he is so smart and he doesn't need as much speed.

[Rich Cannon]

I just don't see Collie as an every down guy. His confidence I can only assume will be shaken, and concussions are a totally different monster than other bodily injuries.

The main reason I would see Avery as the lead guy is due to Arians' MO. He has typically had speed everywhere. That is why we have Avery and Hilton, and to a lesser extent, Brazill. All of these guys fit what he has been doing in Pitt. Avery, to me fits something of a Mike Wallace role, stretch the field kinda stuff. He likely won't fit as well, but he supposedly has the speed to keep defenses concerned about his side, which should allow them to open up the coverage, and find more holes.

Granted, Hilton also could find himself in that role, and I honestly hope he does, but Avery being an NFL vet, likely has an upperhand on the position at this point in time.

IMO in any set where there are only 2 WR'S on the field I dont see Avery as the X,Y . 3 WR sets I can see Avery as either X,Y primarily (if he makes the roster) and Collie in the slot and them switching from time to time. But to claim Avery is number 2 material as others have (not saying you) when we have seen virtually nothing from him in years and expect him to magically come in and beat out Collie opposite Wayne is just something thats outrageous.

[Scott Pennock]

Hilton, Avery and Brazill all have virtually the same measurables............5'10 - 5'11, 180-190 lbs and run between 4.3 and 4.4. Collie and Wayne are vritually the same size and speed combo as well and provide the savvy veteran presence needed for good route running, leadership, etc.

Looking at the Steelers offense in recent years they have had the savvy veteran (Hines Ward - virtually same size/speed as Wayne and Collie) and they have had Mike Wallace/Emmanual Sanders/Antonio Brown as the same size/speed combo as our Avery/Brazill/Hilton.

Ben Rapistburger has been pretty productive within this offense with the same 'type' of blueprint - the exception being that we have Fleener AND Allen that on the talent scale should trump Heath Miller!

I see no reason why Andrew Luck and this offense can't be VERY productive this season and certainly surprise A LOT of folks!

[HtownColt]

Now, this won't happen, but I don't see why we have Reggie playing wide left. His lack of speed has relegated him to 10 yards curls and slants and he is slower than every CB he faces. I would have Collie and Avery as my wideouts and stick Reggie in the slot. He works great out of the slot cause he is so smart and he doesn't need as much speed.

but wayne manages to have 1000yrds seasons every year..i know he had 960yrds this season(with painter/orlovsky) i still call 960 yards a 1000 yard season.

[GrizzColt]

Hilton, Avery and Brazill all have virtually the same measurables............5'10 - 5'11, 180-190 lbs and run between 4.3 and 4.4. Collie and Wayne are vritually the same size and speed combo as well and provide the savvy veteran presence needed for good route running, leadership, etc.

Looking at the Steelers offense in recent years they have had the savvy veteran (Hines Ward - virtually same size/speed as Wayne and Collie) and they have had Mike Wallace/Emmanual Sanders/Antonio Brown as the same size/speed combo as our Avery/Brazill/Hilton.

Ben Rapistburger has been pretty productive within this offense with the same 'type' of blueprint - the exception being that we have Fleener AND Allen that on the talent scale should trump Heath Miller!

I see no reason why Andrew Luck and this offense can't be VERY productive this season and certainly surprise A LOT of folks!

Arians has to be the happiest guy in the NFL (except for NY Giants). You are right, we are basically duplicating the Arian's formula used in Pittsburgh and giving him (hopefully) a better QB to do it with as well as better TE's. Now, they really hit a homer with Mike Wallace. I hope that Hilton can be that as well.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Hilton, Avery and Brazill all have virtually the same measurables............5'10 - 5'11, 180-190 lbs and run between 4.3 and 4.4. Collie and Wayne are vritually the same size and speed combo as well and provide the savvy veteran presence needed for good route running, leadership, etc. Looking at the Steelers offense in recent years they have had the savvy veteran (Hines Ward - virtually same size/speed as Wayne and Collie) and they have had Mike Wallace/Emmanual Sanders/Antonio Brown as the same size/speed combo as our Avery/Brazill/Hilton.

^^^^^^^^That^^^^^^^^

Ben Rapistburger

;)

[mvbighead]

IMO in any set where there are only 2 WR'S on the field I dont see Avery as the X,Y . 3 WR sets I can see Avery as either X,Y primarily (if he makes the roster) and Collie in the slot and them switching from time to time. But to claim Avery is number 2 material as others have (not saying you) when we have seen virtually nothing from him in years and expect him to magically come in and beat out Collie opposite Wayne is just something thats outrageous.

At this point, he isn't really beating anyone out. This office isn't set in stone because we're not carrying over from last year. Wayne isn't even a guarantee as he has been the past 10 or whatever years.

That being said, Wayne is the surest thing we have at WR. Collie has shown tremendous promise, but also has shown to be a bit frail. That isn't his fault necessarily, but simply he has missed more time than not.

That leaves Avery, Hilton, and Brazill as "clones" of the Arians scheme. If I were to bet anything, it would be that they try to give a guy like Avery a chance to shine, and develop the youngsters behind him. Hopefully, they succeed quickly and take his spot. If not, he at least has NFL experience, and hopefully, enough speed to matter.

[mvbighead]

I sure do hope he is back to every down form. We need a dependable slot. I assume Hilton was brought in as insurance just in case.

I doubt the Hilton insurance bit very much. I think they wanted him, thus moving up for him when they did. They want him to see the field plenty this year when he is ready. I honestly feel like he has as good a shot as any at being our future #1, despite his small frame. Not saying the guy is (or could be) the next Marvin, but he simply fits the speed Arians wants, and seems to have talent (at least at the collegiate level).

They had to feel something very strong for this guy to not move up and take a 2nd round WR, but be willing to move up into the third to take him. I think he gets more time to develop, but I anticipate that if Avery goes down with an injury at any point this season, Hilton will get a chance to step in and keep the spot.

I still see Collie as more of a relic of the old system, and a durability question mark. I may be very wrong. But his place is in no way guaranteed.

[Tony Sullivan]

Bleacher Report aka community college journalism students with lots of Madden experience

[GrizzColt]

I don't think Collie should be considered as injury prone because his were concussions. He had the living daylights knocked out of him. Anthony Gonazlez was injury prone.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I doubt the Hilton insurance bit very much. I think they wanted him, thus moving up for him when they did. They want him to see the field plenty this year when he is ready. I honestly feel like he has as good a shot as any at being our future #1, despite his small frame. Not saying the guy is (or could be) the next Marvin, but he simply fits the speed Arians wants, and seems to have talent (at least at the collegiate level).

You could be right.

They had to feel something very strong for this guy to not move up and take a 2nd round WR, but be willing to move up into the third to take him. I think he gets more time to develop, but I anticipate that if Avery goes down with an injury at any point this season, Hilton will get a chance to step in and keep the spot.

That makes sense.

I still see Collie as more of a relic of the old system, and a durability question mark. I may be very wrong. But his place is in no way guaranteed.

He is definitively a question mark where durability is concerned. He is very reliable on the field though. I hope he can stick it out. But I hope more for his long term health.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I don't think Collie should be considered as injury prone because his were concussions. He had the living daylights knocked out of him. Anthony Gonazlez was injury prone.

I mean we're down to Clintonian definitions now. A concussion really is an injury. I understand where you're coming from but it still leads to the same place: not being on the field.