Chris Ballard: Redfining what Success means in the NFL

[jvan1973]

4 hours ago, Solid84 said:

Dorsey had a 43-21 record with the Chiefs and had 3 playoff berths from 2013 to 2017. He drafted Mahomes. Has Ballard and his staff achieved ANYWHERE near that you feel?

Hunt and Reid clearly didn't want dorsey anymore.   They moved on and hired in house.   It isn't unheard of

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

What FACT is calling Ed Dodds Ballard’s rubber stamp man?   Thats pure fan hate.   
 

Is Morocco Brown also a rubber stamp man?   He wasn’t mentioned as a possible replacement.   Then there was the childish hissy fit about blowing it all up.   Which would clearly and obviously put Steichen in serious jeopardy.   A new GM typically eventually wants his own HC.  How is any of that a good thing? 
 

Do you think Irsay is going to blow it all up at his age and stage and spend years building it back up with a new GM?   I’d guess a near zero percent chance.   I’m sorry, I don’t see many “facts” here.  
 

I’m a Ballard supporter and I’ve written multiple times that if AR doesn’t pan out then Ballard would be fired and SHOULD be fired.  But to not hire Dodds or Brown is IMO throwing out the baby with the bath water.   
 

Nor do I see the Irsay daughters blowing it up so they can chart their own path as some posters here have suggested.  I would think their father has prepared them well.

 

Apologies….  I see this very differently.   I’m happy to respond if you have more to share. 
 

 

I know we disagree on this and we can - I don't have a problem with it.

 

First off, this is ALL dependent on AR. If AR pans out this is all a non-issue, for now at least. IF he doesn't...

 

I can't imagine Irsay sitting on his hands because of age/health. Plenty of owners are up in age and have health issues - you think Kraft is sitting on his hands because that?

 

I can't imagine Irsay telling his daughters not to make changes if this keeps going nowhere. In fact I'd bet he's told them to have patience, yes, but not to let that slip into in-decision, passivity or down-right neglect. What kind of owner would he be if he told his daughters not to make any changes?

 

And whether you agree or not the Colts haven't won anything under Ballard. Dodds and Brown have been at his side every step of they way. If you want to keep going with a guy from the same dynasty there has to be reasons beyond him being a good guy and neither of these guys have helped make this a winning team.

 

And I don't think Ballard is in anyway safe because of Steichen being here. Ballard has to bring in the talent and Steichen has to make do with what he gets.

 

To be clear, I'm not saying this is the year - win or out. But I very much believe we're talking 3 years at most (2026 season, possibly 2025 even) and if we're not a contender in the AFC by then it's bye bye Ballard.

[Solid84]

58 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Hunt and Reid clearly didn't want dorsey anymore.   They moved on and hired in house.   It isn't unheard of

IIRC Dorsey was let go because of Dorsey the person, not Dorsey the GM. The Chiefs were winning. The Colts are not (yet at least).

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Not impressed enough?  Interesting how you remember things. 
 

I think in every interview process it was Dodds who dropped out of the interview process.  It’s not that they didn’t pick him, he didn’t pick them.   Remember those teams Dodds interviewed with were coming off a bad season.  Some are bad franchises with a long history of poor performance.  So Dodds would drop out after finding out he would not be a good fit.   Dodds has said that while he’d like to be a GM one day, he won’t take a job just  to take it.   He thinks that how you get fired quickly. 
 

Dodds has interviewed roughly four off-seasons in a row.  (I think after years 18-21)  He didn’t this year, nor did Brown.  Perhaps not after the terrible 2022 season either.  I think both men are all in with the Colts and want to see how the Richardson era plays out. 
 

My memory differs greatly from yours.  

Quite.

[ColtStrong2013]

I can't wait for the season to start so we can all argue about the product on the field instead of what the Kansas City Chiefs GM's have done with one of the greatest QB's in the history of the game. 

[Solid84]

2 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I can't wait for the season to start so we can all argue about the product on the field instead of what the Kansas City Chiefs GM's have done with one of the greatest QB's in the history of the game. 

To be fair, Dorsey drafted in 2017 - the year he was fired. He got to a 43-21 career record without Mahomes - one the greatest QB's in the history of the game.

[ColtStrong2013]

42 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

To be fair, Dorsey drafted in 2017 - the year he was fired. He got to a 43-21 career record without Mahomes - one the greatest QB's in the history of the game.

I was more trying to be funny than accurate. I’m aware. I knew (and was impressed with) Dorsey before Chris Ballard was ever on my radar. I was shocked when they fired him. It all worked out, and probably for the best. Can’t imagine Dorsey not winning at least 1 ring with Mahomes though. 

[AwesomeAustin]

I just want to be on record now. If the Colts fire Ballard for whatever reason in the next few years, I have no clue what direction they will go. Just wanted to get that out there in case any of you were wondering my opinion on this. 

[NewColtsFan]

11 hours ago, Solid84 said:

I know we disagree on this and we can - I don't have a problem with it.

 

First off, this is ALL dependent on AR. If AR pans out this is all a non-issue, for now at least. IF he doesn't...

 

I can't imagine Irsay sitting on his hands because of age/health. Plenty of owners are up in age and have health issues - you think Kraft is sitting on his hands because that?

 

I can't imagine Irsay telling his daughters not to make changes if this keeps going nowhere. In fact I'd bet he's told them to have patience, yes, but not to let that slip into in-decision, passivity or down-right neglect. What kind of owner would he be if he told his daughters not to make any changes?

 

And whether you agree or not the Colts haven't won anything under Ballard. Dodds and Brown have been at his side every step of they way. If you want to keep going with a guy from the same dynasty there has to be reasons beyond him being a good guy and neither of these guys have helped make this a winning team.

 

And I don't think Ballard is in anyway safe because of Steichen being here. Ballard has to bring in the talent and Steichen has to make do with what he gets.

 

To be clear, I'm not saying this is the year - win or out. But I very much believe we're talking 3 years at most (2026 season, possibly 2025 even) and if we're not a contender in the AFC by then it's bye bye Ballard.

Appreciate the response.   A few thoughts to share….

 

i think Irsay only steps down IF his health deteriorates.  No use in comparing him to Kraft, his health appears to be better even though he’s much older.  
 

But if Irsay stepped aside, here’s why I don’t see the daughters blowing things up and starting over.   If they fire Ballard — fine.  But if they also fire Dodds and Brown, at that point, I think you’d see the rest of the scouting department resign (if they weren’t fired too).  They will all get good jobs elsewhere too.  
 

At that point, Steichen is surrounded by very few who know him.  Worse for the daughters…. There would then be a clear line.   With Irsay vs with the daughters.  And if the new GM doesn’t do well and things go south, then the blame won’t go as much to the new GM as it will to the daughters who decided to blow things up.   They’ll be the focus of incredible hate if the new regime makes fans long for what looks like the good old days of the Ballard years.   
 

The argument for not hiring Dodds or Brown seems to be little more than Ballard-hate.  Those people want nothing more to do with anyone associated with Chris Ballard.   Guilt by association, not because of ability.   
 

Thats why I described hiring one of Dodds or Brown as the easiest, simplest, cleanest move to make.  Much less risk.  But blowing it up and starting over is the far higher risk move.  Threading a tiny needle hoping to get it right.  
 

By the way, if you fire Ballard and company and hire a new GM, who does those interviews?   Honestly, who?   Who would you feel good about conducting the interviews of the new GM?   
 

Firing someone is easy.  Hiring the right person is really hard. 
 

Thanks for your patience. 

[AwesomeAustin]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Appreciate the response.   A few thoughts to share….

 

i think Irsay only steps down IF his health deteriorates.  No use in comparing him to Kraft, his health appears to be better even though he’s much older.  
 

But if Irsay stepped aside, here’s why I don’t see the daughters blowing things up and starting over.   If they fire Ballard — fine.  But if they also fire Dodds and Brown, at that point, I think you’d see the rest of the scouting department resign (if they weren’t fired too).  They will all get good jobs elsewhere too.  
 

At that point, Steichen is surrounded by very few who know him.  Worse for the daughters…. There would then be a clear line.   With Irsay vs with the daughters.  And if the new GM doesn’t do well and things go south, then the blame won’t go as much to the new GM as it will to the daughters who decided to blow things up.   They’ll be the focus of incredible hate if the new regime makes fans long for what looks like the good old days of the Ballard years.   
 

The argument for not hiring Dodds or Brown seems to be little more than Ballard-hate.  Those people want nothing more to do with anyone associated with Chris Ballard.   Guilt by association, not because of ability.   
 

Thats why I described hiring one of Dodds or Brown as the easiest, simplest, cleanest move to make.  Much less risk.  But blowing it up and starting over is the far higher risk move.  Threading a tiny needle hoping to get it right.  
 

By the way, if you fire Ballard and company and hire a new GM, who does those interviews?   Honestly, who?   Who would you feel good about conducting the interviews of the new GM?   
 

Firing someone is easy.  Hiring the right person is really hard. 
 

Thanks for your patience. 

Ive said this before to you. I agree with what you are saying on this topic. It very well could play out exactly how you are saying it for the reasons you are using. I do believe you are over looking one very important factor with not hiring Dodds or Brown. Without a doubt in my mind, if Ballard was fired a list of viable candidates will already be considered. Whoever is involved in the decision will have people in mind. Thats how hiring processes work. Dodds and Brown have their own strengths and weaknesses and also offer a level of continuity that can be seen as a positive. Still, there are plenty of scenarios where Irsay, his daughters or even Steichen prefer someone else and value what they offer more. It’s so hard to say what would happen bc unless the wheels totally come off like 2022, we are a few years away. A lot can happen, including one or both of Dodds/Brown not being here anymore. 

[throwing BBZ]

9 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I just want to be on record now. If the Colts fire Ballard for whatever reason in the next few years, I have no clue what direction they will go. Just wanted to get that out there in case any of you were wondering my opinion on this. 

 

  Chuckle.

 That you have or would have knowledge at some future date of who would be a good choice as our next GM, well, your posts to date give me no reason to consider it an area of your expertise. Perhaps that will change if as you speculate, Ballard does get fired or even leaves of his own volition.

 We are in dry times. 

 

[Solid84]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Appreciate the response.   A few thoughts to share….

 

i think Irsay only steps down IF his health deteriorates.  No use in comparing him to Kraft, his health appears to be better even though he’s much older.  
 

But if Irsay stepped aside, here’s why I don’t see the daughters blowing things up and starting over.   If they fire Ballard — fine.  But if they also fire Dodds and Brown, at that point, I think you’d see the rest of the scouting department resign (if they weren’t fired too).  They will all get good jobs elsewhere too.  
 

At that point, Steichen is surrounded by very few who know him.  Worse for the daughters…. There would then be a clear line.   With Irsay vs with the daughters.  And if the new GM doesn’t do well and things go south, then the blame won’t go as much to the new GM as it will to the daughters who decided to blow things up.   They’ll be the focus of incredible hate if the new regime makes fans long for what looks like the good old days of the Ballard years.   
 

The argument for not hiring Dodds or Brown seems to be little more than Ballard-hate.  Those people want nothing more to do with anyone associated with Chris Ballard.   Guilt by association, not because of ability.   
 

Thats why I described hiring one of Dodds or Brown as the easiest, simplest, cleanest move to make.  Much less risk.  But blowing it up and starting over is the far higher risk move.  Threading a tiny needle hoping to get it right.  
 

By the way, if you fire Ballard and company and hire a new GM, who does those interviews?   Honestly, who?   Who would you feel good about conducting the interviews of the new GM?   
 

Firing someone is easy.  Hiring the right person is really hard. 
 

Thanks for your patience. 

I don't disagree staying with Dodds or Brown is the easiest, but how often do you see a franchise stick with people from a former dynasty that isn't winning? That's my point. You don't half-back it when you go with a new GM.

 

Also, what is there to long for in regards to the "good old days of the Ballard years", seriously? ? I sincerely hope fear of being worse than mediocre isn't going to keep this franchise from aiming to be good/a contender.

 

That's not hate.

 

And as to who does the interviews, Irsay's daughters of course? Irsay is giving them more and more responsibility. They were in the draft room this year, because he couldn't be there himself. It's pretty clear he trusts them.

 

Again, I know we don't agree on this, please don't take this as me trying to "convince" you. It's just good football talk. In the end we all want the Colts to win. 👍

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Ive said this before to you. I agree with what you are saying on this topic. It very well could play out exactly how you are saying it for the reasons you are using. I do believe you are over looking one very important factor with not hiring Dodds or Brown. Without a doubt in my mind, if Ballard was fired a list of viable candidates will already be considered. Whoever is involved in the decision will have people in mind. Thats how hiring processes work. Dodds and Brown have their own strengths and weaknesses and also offer a level of continuity that can be seen as a positive. Still, there are plenty of scenarios where Irsay, his daughters or even Steichen prefer someone else and value what they offer more. It’s so hard to say what would happen bc unless the wheels totally come off like 2022, we are a few years away. A lot can happen, including one or both of Dodds/Brown not being here anymore. 

 

Austin…. I’ve shared publicly and I think privately of my respect for you so I want to be clear that hasn’t changed. 

But I’m not sure I understood what you wrote NOR the reason you felt compelled to say it.   And I say confidently, if Ballard gets fired and neither Dodds or Brown are hired as his replacement the LEAST happy person in the building is going to be Shane Steichen.  The man who hired him is who he wants to work for.  And if not him, then Dodds or Brown.   
 

The ONLY way Steichen would be remotely happy is if he is given much greater authority and control so that HE can pick the GM to work with.  Thats what Kyle Shannahan did with John Lynch.  Shannahan got hired and picked Lynch to be his GM.  If Steichen is given the control he wants then fine.  Otherwise,  he’ll be miserable.  
 

You're telling me how business works.  I’m telling you how football business works.  And they’re not the same.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

Sometimes just going by a GM's win/loss record can be deceiving. On paper, Grigson was 49-31 during the Regular Season. 3-3 in the Playoffs. If you just go by record which many do, Grigson must be 5 times the GM that Ballard is right? No, wrong and everyone knows it. Ballard is better, just hasn't had the QB with the exception of Luck in 2018 and Rivers in 2020. In those 2 seasons, it is quite cute that Ballard was 21-11 in the Regular Season and won a Playoff game in 2018. I wonder why?? lol.

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Sometimes just going by a GM's win/loss record can be deceiving. On paper, Grigson was 49-31 during the Regular Season. 3-3 in the Playoffs. If you just go by record which many do, Grigson must be 5 times the GM that Ballard is right? No, wrong and everyone knows it. Ballard is better, just hasn't had the QB with the exception of Luck in 2018 and Rivers in 2020. In those 2 seasons, it is quite cute that Ballard was 21-11 in the Regular Season and won a Playoff game in 2018. I wonder why?? lol.

Results matter. No doubt about it. It’s just that no one wants to be honest when using the results to compare to Grigson… 

[GoColts8818]

Irsay had Tom Telesco in house and even named him the interim GM when he fired the Polians and interviewed him for the job and still hired Ryan Grigson and Telesco then bolted for the Chargers job a year later.  If Irsay makes a change at the GM spot just because Brown and Dodds are up and comers doesn’t mean they are going to be favorites to get the GM job with the Colts.  They certainly could but I also think we are debating a hypothetical that needs another larger hypothetical to fall first in terms of firing Ballard and until that happens I am not going to worry about what happens with Brown or Dodds if Ballard is let go.

[wig]

On 6/19/2024 at 2:22 AM, NewColtsFan said:

I think both Dodds and Brown have very good reputations.    If Irsay lets both go, a new guy from the outside is going to want to come in and blow everything up and start from scratch.  Bring in his own people.  That puts Steichen in Jeopardy.   At some point the new GM wants his own HC.

 

I don’t think Irsay would want any part of a multi-year rebuild.  Not at his age and especially his stage.   
 

A move toward Dodds or Brown is the easiest, cleanest, simplest most straight forward move The Boss could make.  And keeps the continuity everywhere in the building.  Good for everyone.  
 

Thats my perspective.  
 

 

 

The entire point of firing your GM is to blow things up

[ColtStrong2013]

18 minutes ago, wig said:

 

The entire point of firing your GM is to blow things up

 

Which is exactly why many (or maybe just some, idk) of us don't see that happening anytime soon... We aren't in the dumps. Until there is clear signs of not improving, and I think that started last offseason, there isn't going to be major moves IMO. I personally don't want to experience a rebuild or a qb shuffling again for a while. Hopefully those days are behind us.

[jvan1973]

2 hours ago, wig said:

 

The entire point of firing your GM is to blow things up

Teams promote from within more than you think. 

[Nate!]

7 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Teams promote from within more than you think. 

True.  Just happened with Pats at both head coach and GM being internal promotions.  Panthers did the same thing after firing their GM

[CoachLite]

On 6/20/2024 at 8:50 AM, shasta519 said:

 

I don't disagree about the need to stack good quantitative decisions. But AR was a qualitative decision. They saw potential and upside (due to his traits) and took him at #4 to be the guy. If they are wrong, a change will be necessary.

Are you familiar with Likert scales?

[CoachLite]

On 6/20/2024 at 8:25 AM, jvan1973 said:

You can find a statistic to make any argument.    Please explain exactly the " the metrics for making good quantitative decisions "  also what statistical correlations?    You post this stuff a lot and never delve into exactly what you're talking about. 

Correlated statistics are the basis for what most people call artificial intelligence. It would take too much space on a fan forum to explain, but here is a Wikipedia overview of one such method: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNEAT#. Hope this helps.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroevolution_of_augmenting_topologies

[jvan1973]

59 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

Correlated statistics are the basis for what most people call artificial intelligence. It would take too much space on a fan forum to explain, but here is a Wikipedia overview of one such method: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNEAT#. Hope this helps.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroevolution_of_augmenting_topologies

Not really.   How would any of that help build a football team

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, wig said:

 

The entire point of firing your GM is to blow things up

No, it’s not.  I don’t even know where you pulled that from?   
 

It can be if that’s the intention of the owner.  But it’s not always the intention.  Sometimes your answers are in house.  

[CoachLite]

5 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Not really.   How would any of that help build a football team

Not obvious to you? It can also win at Chess and Go and solve complex engineering problems.

[AwesomeAustin]

On 6/22/2024 at 2:34 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Austin…. I’ve shared publicly and I think privately of my respect for you so I want to be clear that hasn’t changed. 

But I’m not sure I understood what you wrote NOR the reason you felt compelled to say it.   And I say confidently, if Ballard gets fired and neither Dodds or Brown are hired as his replacement the LEAST happy person in the building is going to be Shane Steichen.  The man who hired him is who he wants to work for.  And if not him, then Dodds or Brown.   
 

The ONLY way Steichen would be remotely happy is if he is given much greater authority and control so that HE can pick the GM to work with.  Thats what Kyle Shannahan did with John Lynch.  Shannahan got hired and picked Lynch to be his GM.  If Steichen is given the control he wants then fine.  Otherwise,  he’ll be miserable.  
 

You're telling me how business works.  I’m telling you how football business works.  And they’re not the same.  

In the post I responded to i believe you said the argument for not hiring Dobbs or Brown is little more than Ballard hate. I just wanted to point out that I felt other candidates being preferred by the organization(Irsay’s and/or coaching staff) is the biggest argument and wasnt being considered.  They will have a list of candidates and choose the one they all like best. Thats how the hiring process typically works in business and in football. 
 

I have no numbers to back this up but if I were to guess, promoting from within when a GM is fired for poor performance is likely the exception. Retirement, personality issues while being successful or a voluntary quit…sure I can see that.  Not when the organization says this front office isn’t working out performance wise so it’s time to move on. I think they would strongly consider candidates from outside the building but also those currently on staff. 
 

Thats why I responded what I did. Hope it makes sense. If not…guess we can move on either way. 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, AwesomeAustin said:

They will have a list of candidates and choose the one they all like best.

 

Hey now. Let's not jump the gun and start using terms like "will" in our analysis. 

Or

 

Let's do. We will win the Super Bowl in the next three years and these conversations will be for nothing.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

In the post I responded to i believe you said the argument for not hiring Dobbs or Brown is little more than Ballard hate. I just wanted to point out that I felt other candidates being preferred by the organization(Irsay’s and/or coaching staff) is the biggest argument and wasnt being considered.  They will have a list of candidates and choose the one they all like best. Thats how the hiring process typically works in business and in football. 
 

I have no numbers to back this up but if I were to guess, promoting from within when a GM is fired for poor performance is likely the exception. Retirement, personality issues while being successful or a voluntary quit…sure I can see that.  Not when the organization says this front office isn’t working out performance wise so it’s time to move on. I think they would strongly consider candidates from outside the building but also those currently on staff. 
 

Thats why I responded what I did. Hope it makes sense. If not…guess we can move on either way. 

I don’t generally disagree.   Your arguments aren’t unreasonable.  The following is offered as food for thought.  My 2 cents.  Ok, maybe 3 cents!  😜 
 

One of the issues that you didn’t address, is that if Ballard is out, and so are Dodds and Brown going with them, which likely means the rest of the scouts are gone too….  If all that happens WHO is conducting the interviews for the new GM?   Surely NOT the Daughters.   Maybe Irsay, if he’s healthy enough?  Probably Steichen if he becomes the power broker like Shannahan,  but if not?   
 

Lots and lots and lots of question marks.   To me it’s the harder road to navigate.  That’s why one of my first posts talked about the easiest safest cleanest choice is to stay in-house.  I don’t think most of the 32 teams have a Dodds AND a Brown.  I think they’re far better than the 2 and 3 that most teams have.  Great reputations. 
 

If the Colts go outside and truly blow things up,  which I agree is what typically happens in the NFL,  puts the daughters squarely on the hottest seat.  Because if it doesn’t work the blame will be focused mostly on them.   All the scrutiny from both local media and national.  The hottest seat.  


 

 

[NewColtsFan]

On 6/22/2024 at 11:19 AM, Solid84 said:

I don't disagree staying with Dodds or Brown is the easiest, but how often do you see a franchise stick with people from a former dynasty that isn't winning? That's my point. You don't half-back it when you go with a new GM.

 

Also, what is there to long for in regards to the "good old days of the Ballard years", seriously? ? I sincerely hope fear of being worse than mediocre isn't going to keep this franchise from aiming to be good/a contender.

 

That's not hate.

 

And as to who does the interviews, Irsay's daughters of course? Irsay is giving them more and more responsibility. They were in the draft room this year, because he couldn't be there himself. It's pretty clear he trusts them.

 

Again, I know we don't agree on this, please don't take this as me trying to "convince" you. It's just good football talk. In the end we all want the Colts to win. 👍

Appreciate your thoughts here.  I think the desire to be done with the Ballard years is turning into throwing the babies out with the bath water.   
 

I think Dodds and Brown would NOT want to be viewed as as Ballard 2.0.  I think either if chosen each would want to be viewed as his own man.  And they might do things somewhat differently.   Make decisions that Ballard might not make.  To me, it would be only human that sometimes Dodds and Brown might disagree with this decision or that decision.  Of course disagreements stay in-house, behind closed doors where they belong.   We might not never know, but I have to believe they happen internally.  Just my hunch.  
 

So I think the fears of Dodds or Brown being just like Ballard are somewhat over-blown.  I don’t give up on real talent that quickly.   Firing is easy.  Hiring the right guy to replace is really hard.   Ryan Grigson sends his regards.  

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 6/22/2024 at 2:19 PM, Solid84 said:

I don't disagree staying with Dodds or Brown is the easiest, but how often do you see a franchise stick with people from a former dynasty that isn't winning? That's my point. You don't half-back it when you go with a new GM.

 

Also, what is there to long for in regards to the "good old days of the Ballard years", seriously? ? I sincerely hope fear of being worse than mediocre isn't going to keep this franchise from aiming to be good/a contender.

 

That's not hate.

 

And as to who does the interviews, Irsay's daughters of course? Irsay is giving them more and more responsibility. They were in the draft room this year, because he couldn't be there himself. It's pretty clear he trusts them.

 

Again, I know we don't agree on this, please don't take this as me trying to "convince" you. It's just good football talk. In the end we all want the Colts to win. 👍

 

I agree.

When you fire someone for losing, you shouldn't hire his replacement based on what's the easiest path BUT instead who's best for the job. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I agree.

When you fire someone for losing, you shouldn't hire his replacement based on what's the easiest path BUT instead who's best for the job. 

I agree.  Hire who’s best for the job.  But that doesn’t mean the guy who is easiest is automatically the wrong choice.  Easiest can also mean best.   It depends on your perspective.  

[CoachLite]

13 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I agree.  Hire who’s best for the job.  But that doesn’t mean the guy who is easiest is automatically the wrong choice.  Easiest can also mean best.   It depends on your perspective.  

I would say "hire the best who's available for the job". If all the good / great GM candidates are gone, you're stuck hiring someone like Grigson (or maybe someone from this forum).

 

I often wonder, who's the best candidate to hire for an impossible job? Someone who can make the impossible, possible?

[AwesomeAustin]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t generally disagree.   Your arguments aren’t unreasonable.  The following is offered as food for thought.  My 2 cents.  Ok, maybe 3 cents!  😜 
 

One of the issues that you didn’t address, is that if Ballard is out, and so are Dodds and Brown going with them, which likely means the rest of the scouts are gone too….  If all that happens WHO is conducting the interviews for the new GM?   Surely NOT the Daughters.   Maybe Irsay, if he’s healthy enough?  Probably Steichen if he becomes the power broker like Shannahan,  but if not?   
 

Lots and lots and lots of question marks.   To me it’s the harder road to navigate.  That’s why one of my first posts talked about the easiest safest cleanest choice is to stay in-house.  I don’t think most of the 32 teams have a Dodds AND a Brown.  I think they’re far better than the 2 and 3 that most teams have.  Great reputations. 
 

If the Colts go outside and truly blow things up,  which I agree is what typically happens in the NFL,  puts the daughters squarely on the hottest seat.  Because if it doesn’t work the blame will be focused mostly on them.   All the scrutiny from both local media and national.  The hottest seat.  


 

 

Great points!  I would assume the Irsay’s would conduct the interviews. If Steichen is given more control he would as well or the new GM could decide his fate like Ballard did with Pagano. Several ways it can go and we are a few years away from it even happening so who really knows. I’m hoping none of it matters and the team becomes a true contender and this discussion is merely killing time. 

[RollerColt]

Am I the only one who really hopes AR and Steichen end up being a success story and this hypothetical Ballard firing doesn’t happen? 

[Yoshinator]

17 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Am I the only one who really hopes AR and Steichen end up being a success story and this hypothetical Ballard firing doesn’t happen? 

I really want to win. It doesn't matter to me who the GM is. If Ballard, AR, and Steichen succeed and make us a playoff contender every year, I'll be fine with it and be happy to root for this team. I'm just sick of the losing and missing the playoffs. I trust Ballard in the draft, I trust Steichen as a QB guru. It's time for us to win, and if it's Ballard that does so, we won't have to do a complete rebuild, and that would be the biggest positive and best-case scenario that could happen.

[Solid84]

43 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Am I the only one who really hopes AR and Steichen end up being a success story and this hypothetical Ballard firing doesn’t happen? 

Not at all. We all want the Colts to win.

[ColtStrong2013]

3 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Great points!  I would assume the Irsay’s would conduct the interviews. If Steichen is given more control he would as well or the new GM could decide his fate like Ballard did with Pagano. Several ways it can go and we are a few years away from it even happening so who really knows. I’m hoping none of it matters and the team becomes a true contender and this discussion is merely killing time. 

I think it’s undeniable the Irsay girls are working hard learning the business inside out. And my feeling regarding Ballard is that they are learning from him for if/when he is no longer here. By all accounts, he is as thorough with evaluation and interviewing as anyone. He’s patient when many would not be disciplined to be. Those are great traits any owner would want their successors/children to study and learn from while they have the opportunity. They were involved with him conducting the HC interviews and landing Steichen. So the product on the field is just a small component of what they are leaning on him for, and their growth as the future heads of the franchise, in a lot of ways, is by working with and learning from CB. He’s unequivocally now one of the more seasoned managers in the league. I think we often forget or ignore that he was a highly successful executive and sought after GM candidate prior to accepting this role. This is not the means to an end for CB, he’s already worked through the means… it legit could be the end for him. When his time is done in Indy, he may be ready to pull back entirely from the game. 

[Superman]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t generally disagree.   Your arguments aren’t unreasonable.  The following is offered as food for thought.  My 2 cents.  Ok, maybe 3 cents!  😜 
 

One of the issues that you didn’t address, is that if Ballard is out, and so are Dodds and Brown going with them, which likely means the rest of the scouts are gone too….  If all that happens WHO is conducting the interviews for the new GM?   Surely NOT the Daughters.   Maybe Irsay, if he’s healthy enough?  Probably Steichen if he becomes the power broker like Shannahan,  but if not?   
 

Lots and lots and lots of question marks.   To me it’s the harder road to navigate.  That’s why one of my first posts talked about the easiest safest cleanest choice is to stay in-house.  I don’t think most of the 32 teams have a Dodds AND a Brown.  I think they’re far better than the 2 and 3 that most teams have.  Great reputations. 
 

If the Colts go outside and truly blow things up,  which I agree is what typically happens in the NFL,  puts the daughters squarely on the hottest seat.  Because if it doesn’t work the blame will be focused mostly on them.   All the scrutiny from both local media and national.  The hottest seat.  
 

 

Pete Ward would be very involved.

 

I have to admit, I don't understand this conversation. First, Ballard will be the GM for the foreseeable future. Long enough for Steichen to be evaluated fairly, which probably coincides with Richardson's development. And it's my hope that they all succeed together.

 

Second, I don't think Irsay or whoever is making decisions in the future would hold back from replacing a GM because they're trying to avoid the inconvenience of replacing him or his staff. When Grigson was hired, it took him over a year to rework his staff, culminating in the hiring of Jimmy Raye. When Ballard was hired, he kept Jimmy Raye and Grigson's staff through his first draft, and then hired his own staff that summer. And of course, he didn't hire a new HC until the following season. These transitions required a lot of work and took some time, but that's what needed to happen.

 

If Ballard got fired, the Colts would hire whoever they think is best to replace him, whether it's an internal candidate or someone else. I think an external candidate would be most likely, but I don't think guys like Dodds and Brown would be excluded from consideration. Whoever they'd hire would then be allowed to re-staff the front office as they see fit. It might not happen right away, but the new GM would be given the chance to succeed.

 

Ultimately, I still find it mind boggling that Ballard's future is so hotly debated. I understood this as the team was falling apart in 2022. Since then, I think it's clear that Ballard was allowed to reset the operation, and will be here at least long enough for the new HC and QB to be established and evaluated. And if they all succeed, like everyone should hope, he'll probably be here even longer. 

[Dingus McGirt]

48 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Pete Ward would be very involved.

 

I have to admit, I don't understand this conversation. First, Ballard will be the GM for the foreseeable future. Long enough for Steichen to be evaluated fairly, which probably coincides with Richardson's development. And it's my hope that they all succeed together.

 

Second, I don't think Irsay or whoever is making decisions in the future would hold back from replacing a GM because they're trying to avoid the inconvenience of replacing him or his staff. When Grigson was hired, it took him over a year to rework his staff, culminating in the hiring of Jimmy Raye. When Ballard was hired, he kept Jimmy Raye and Grigson's staff through his first draft, and then hired his own staff that summer. And of course, he didn't hire a new HC until the following season. These transitions required a lot of work and took some time, but that's what needed to happen.

 

If Ballard got fired, the Colts would hire whoever they think is best to replace him, whether it's an internal candidate or someone else. I think an external candidate would be most likely, but I don't think guys like Dodds and Brown would be excluded from consideration. Whoever they'd hire would then be allowed to re-staff the front office as they see fit. It might not happen right away, but the new GM would be given the chance to succeed.

 

Ultimately, I still find it mind boggling that Ballard's future is so hotly debated. I understood this as the team was falling apart in 2022. Since then, I think it's clear that Ballard was allowed to reset the operation, and will be here at least long enough for the new HC and QB to be established and evaluated. And if they all succeed, like everyone should hope, he'll probably be here even longer. 

Spot on, sir.  I've been following this thread, and wondering - at this point, what makes people think/believe/hope that Chris Ballard is at risk?  Maybe he has sent out some mean tweets...

[throwing BBZ]

31 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Spot on, sir.  I've been following this thread, and wondering - at this point, what makes people think/believe/hope that Chris Ballard is at risk?  Maybe he has sent out some mean tweets...

 

 It's purely the doubting Thomas's doubt about Richardson.

Which is a joke as Irsay has explained, the QB position is something the owner must approve. Ballard is not holding the bag alone on that draft choice. It became a heavily researched and debated decision.

 And he is going to positively shock the world.

 And the Irsay girls are knee deep digging into the business. It's awesome that one of them is on the sidelines with a headset on.