Colts offseason discussion / Ballard Grievances (merge)

[RollerColt]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

But even if the Colts would have had Luck through 2023, Ballard displayed little urgency to replace TY and AC who were obviously not going to be around very long.  And he never found an EDGE.  Those are 3 key positional issues that Luck would have had to play through, unless there is a scenario that I don't see where Ballard would have committed more urgency to those positions.  Rivers, Wentz, and Ryan were mainly salary cap resource uses and Ballard doesn't seem to sign high priced positional players via free agency.  So its not like allocating the salary cap to QBs..even if Luck was here....made a dent in how he approached TY, AC, and EDGE.

 

How he chose to address the LT position all of these years is still really bizarre to me.  And in the end, he filled it with his second 3rd round pick, drafting Raimann behind even Woods.

Would you agree that in order for a team to persistent / perennial contenders they need at the very least a franchise QB on offense with a franchise EDGE on defense? 

 

I'm really hoping we take a look at defensive ends for this draft... 

[John Waylon]

4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Is it though? Fans may think it is, but I don’t think it actually is. Irsay seems content with Ballards approach for at least the foreseeable future. 

If Richardson is a bust there’s a 0% chance he keeps his job. What owner in the league would keep a GM for 10 years with no division titles, who obviously can’t land a QB to do what he wants? 
 

We’ve sat around for over a year now and talked about how tied to Richardson Ballard is with absolutely no dispute, and now all the sudden he’s magically not?!

 

No. If Richardson is a bust Ballard is going to be someone else’s problem. There is a 100% chance. 

[Happy2BeHere]

1 hour ago, Indyfan4life said:

I'm getting dangerously close to being done with Ballard.

I hear Ballard is actually close to being done with you…at least that’s what a friend of a friend of a friend of Destin said.  

[GoColts8818]

11 minutes ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

Between the Davis and Bryan signings I have to believe Eric Johnson will be unemployed or on the Practice Squad next year.

Yeah when someone said why or something like that I was thinking well he’s better than Johnson but that’s not saying much.

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

If Richardson is a bust there’s a 0% chance he keeps his job. What owner in the league would keep a GM for 10 years with no division titles, who obviously can’t land a QB to do what he wants? 
 

We’ve sat around for over a year now and talked about how tied to Richardson Ballard is with absolutely no dispute, and now all the sudden he’s magically not?!

 

No. If Richardson is a bust Ballard is going to be someone else’s problem. There is a 100% chance. 

Richardson is still basically a a rookie.   Unless he is terrible this year,  or is on IR early,  Ballard is safe.  Irsay likes him and his FA approach is the approach that every GM has taken since he became owner.  

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, AKB said:

does it have to do with what year the bonus gets applied? 

I don’t know.   When it comes to NFL accounting, I have limited (read: minimal understanding)  Superman and w87r have the most knowledge in our community by far.   
 

Wish I understood more, but some things clearly go over my head and I try to own that.   

[DougDew]

39 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Again, revisionist. Just like people saying 'Grigson ignored the OL!' He didn't ignore it, his moves just didn't work.

 

Ballard drafted several WRs, including Campbell, who suddenly couldn't stay healthy after a mostly injury free college career. He signed Funchess, specifically to match up with Luck. If either or both of those guys hit, we can transition pretty smoothly from Hilton to the new chapter.

 

Ballard signed Autry in 2018, and Houston in 2019. In the same time frame, he drafted Lewis, Turay, Banogu, Basham. Later on, he drafted Paye and Dayo. These decisions had mixed results.

 

He signed Eric Fisher, who was pretty good in the run game, but terrible in pass protection. The other stopgap guys at LT that year flamed out. Then they drafted Raimann, and he was meant to be a reserve while Pryor played LT in 2022; Pryor was a disaster, Raimann got thrown to the fire, but now he looks pretty good. 

 

If "displayed little urgency" is a euphemism for 'he didn't use a first rounder or sign a big name free agent' at those positions, then fine. Other than that, it's not true. 

 

To the bolded, if you look up the numbers, you might be surprised. Setting aside the possibility of a new contract for Luck (his contract would have expired after 2021), the Colts spent more cap space on QBs from 2019-2021 than they would have if Luck had kept playing.

Campbell was drafted to be a slot, not an outside guy, despite how he was used later.  All of the others you listed were signed/considered pretty much stop gaps.  I would say filling important positions with stop gaps equals lack of urgency, JMO.  The drafted players like Turay and Lewis were pretty much considered developmental/rotational players...not dominant edge types.  Getting by with nondominant rotational players in important positions is kind of a general description of what people are complaining about.

 

I'm not disputing Luck's cap hit.  I'm saying that Ballard spent cap dollars on QBs, not position players.  So his approach of finding stop gaps would probably not have changed even if we still had Luck (Luck's cap number would not have been an excuse for not making more Buckner type of deals for other players....if available).

[Superman]

21 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

This seems to always be the counter point, but in reality there are several steps between 1st rounder/"big name free agents" and jags.

 

Are 2nd rounders JAGs? People are heartbroken over Denico Autry four years later, is he a JAG now?

[John Waylon]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Richardson is still basically a a rookie.   Unless he is terrible this year,  or is on IR early,  Ballard is safe.  Irsay likes him and his FA approach is the approach that every GM has taken since he became owner.  

Well he can’t be a bust this year then, can he? We’re talking about in the hypothetical situation that he doesn’t pan out, not whatever is about to happen in September. 

[John Waylon]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Richardson is still basically a a rookie.   Unless he is terrible this year,  or is on IR early,  Ballard is safe.  Irsay likes him and his FA approach is the approach that every GM has taken since he became owner.  

Also, grigson and Ballard could not be any farther apart when it comes to their FA approach so take that last sentence and just go throw that one in the trash, because it was a flat-out lie. 

[John Waylon]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Are 2nd rounders JAGs? People are heartbroken over Denico Autry four years later, is he a JAG now?

 

Too many of Ballard’s second rounders are. 

[John Waylon]

Just now, John Waylon said:

 

Too many of Ballard’s second rounders are. 

And let’s just be honest with ourselves: some of his 2nd rounders would have been vast improvements if only they had ever been able to attain “JAG” status. 

[MikeCurtis]

17 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Would you agree that in order for a team to persistent / perennial contenders they need at the very least a franchise QB on offense with a franchise EDGE on defense? 

 

I'm really hoping we take a look at defensive ends for this draft... 

The 3 high money positions are QB, LT, and stud DE

 

Its early but I think we have the QB of the future and the LT of the future

 

We dont have that consistant game changing DE

 

Latu may be our choice

[MikeCurtis]

11 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Richardson is still basically a a rookie.   Unless he is terrible this year,  or is on IR early,  Ballard is safe.  Irsay likes him and his FA approach is the approach that every GM has taken since he became owner.  

If Richardson is healthy and the defense is bottom 5 in scoring allowed, and we go 9-8 or worse.......

I dont think the DC survives and maybe not Ballard

[MikeCurtis]

2 hours ago, Solid84 said:

The guy was pushed around last year

 

Im surprised they brought him back

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

If Richardson is healthy and the defense is bottom 5 in scoring allowed, and we go 9-8 or worse.......

I dont think the DC survives and maybe not Ballard

The Colts weren't close to bottom five in any category last year. 

[jvan1973]

10 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Also, grigson and Ballard could not be any farther apart when it comes to their FA approach so take that last sentence and just go throw that one in the trash, because it was a flat-out lie. 

No it isn't.  What high priced free agent that was a difference maker did Grigson bring in?

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

And let’s just be honest with ourselves: some of his 2nd rounders would have been vast improvements if only they had ever been able to attain “JAG” status. 

 

And then there's Leonard, Smith, Pittman, Taylor, etc. 

 

I'm not sure why you're playing the extremes.

[Solid84]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Are 2nd rounders JAGs? People are heartbroken over Denico Autry four years later, is he a JAG now?

No they’re not. 
 

My point is whenever someone on here even hints they’re tired of Ballard’s approach people always jump straight to the “Ballard never hires expensive, big-name free agents”. There are several other ways to add good talent and even for reasonable money, but Ballard just doesn’t. 
 

That said several of Ballard’s day 2 picks haven’t turned out good, but that’s hindsight I guess.  His handling of the LT position was terrible though in my opinion. As was how he handled DE in 2021. I’m not especially hyped about Autry, but he’s better than anyone we’ve had since he left except possibly Ebukam. 

[Solid84]

5 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

The Colts weren't close to bottom five in any category last year. 

They were 28th in points allowed… a pretty big category I’d say. 

[Zoltan]

7 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

If Richardson is healthy and the defense is bottom 5 in scoring allowed, and we go 9-8 or worse.......

I dont think the DC survives and maybe not Ballard

 

Hopefully no matter what the DC doesn't survive because Bradley is a bad play caller that rarely adjusts his defense to the talent on the roster.

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

The Colts weren't close to bottom five in any category last year. 

They were bottom five in points allowed per game, granted they were 5th, so barely bottom 5.

[DougDew]

37 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Would you agree that in order for a team to persistent / perennial contenders they need at the very least a franchise QB on offense with a franchise EDGE on defense? 

 

I'm really hoping we take a look at defensive ends for this draft... 

EDGE is a good example.  IIRC, Mathis was gone when Ballard got here.  I don't know if it would have been a reach to pick EDGE here, but Ballard goes and devotes picks 15, 4, 36, and 37 to a FS, LG, WILL, and OG (drafted to be RG but played well at RT so he stayed).  Then when Banogu was obviously not the answer and Lewis hadn't played much, he trades down from taking Montez Sweat at 26 to take corner RYS.  Not that Sweat is an all pro, but he was better than probably any EDGE we had other than Houston...who simply defied the age algorithm.  Ballard trades up to take a RB at 41, like it was urgent.

 

Sure, he took Paye eventually.  But eventually is synonymous with lack of urgency, IMO.

 

Now folks are complaining about not devoting resources to the important passing game assets, and I'm saying not devoting resources to the important assets has been going on for years.

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

No they’re not. 
 

My point is whenever someone on here even hints they’re tired of Ballard’s approach people always jump straight to the “Ballard never hires expensive, big-name free agents”. There are several other ways to add good talent and even for reasonable money, but Ballard just doesn’t. 
 

That said several of Ballard’s day 2 picks haven’t turned out good, but that’s hindsight I guess.  His handling of the LT position was terrible though in my opinion. As was how he handled DE in 2021. I’m not especially hyped about Autry, but he’s better than anyone we’ve had since he left except possibly Ebukam. 

“There are several other ways to add good talent and at reasonable, but Ballard just doesn’t.”   ????    Huh?  
 

Can you elaborate on what ways Ballard doesn’t do?    The only thing I’m aware of that CB doesn’t do is sign FA’s to big expensive contracts of 4 and 5 years.  (Excluding Matt Gay).  His FA signing actually 1-3 years.  
 

So what am I not understanding?  

[Zoltan]

3 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

No they’re not. 
 

My point is whenever someone on here even hints they’re tired of Ballard’s approach people always jump straight to the “Ballard never hires expensive, big-name free agents”. There are several other ways to add good talent and even for reasonable money, but Ballard just doesn’t. 
 

That said several of Ballard’s day 2 picks haven’t turned out good, but that’s hindsight I guess.  His handling of the LT position was terrible though in my opinion. As was how he handled DE in 2021. I’m not especially hyped about Autry, but he’s better than anyone we’ve had since he left except possibly Ebukam. 

I really don't get the Denico Autry take that so many people have in this forum, he did alright with the Colts nothing crazy stat-wise, he average 6.6 sacks and just over 10 QB hits per season over his 3 years. Ironically his replacement Muhammed had 6 sacks and 13 hits the year he was replaced, sure Autry did better with the Titans but he was part of a great DL with Landry, Simmons, and a scheme that attacked the QB more efficiently.

[John Waylon]

7 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

No it isn't.  What high priced free agent that was a difference maker did Grigson bring in?

Thats not the point. Nor am I saying Ballard should emulate grigson, so don’t try to pull more misdirection nonsense with that. 
 

You said, and I direct quote:

 

”his FA approach is the approach that every GM has taken since he became owner.”

 

Which is absolutely not true. Not even a little bit true. If every GM has taken that approach Ballard and grigson would not be polar opposites. 

 

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

And then there's Leonard, Smith, Pittman, Taylor, etc. 

 

I'm not sure why you're playing the extremes.

Because he’s 54-60-1after 7 years and relies on running it back with rosters with clear issues he simply refuses to do anything about other than drafting guys with lime green bars and hoping for the best. 
 

What good are guys like Leonard, Smith, Pittman, and Taylor if THIS is what we do with them as a team? We’re just wasting those guys because “we like our guys” in other rooms even though everyone under the sun is pointing out as an issue. 
 

And it’s never going to change. 

[Superman]

21 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

No they’re not. 
 

My point is whenever someone on here even hints they’re tired of Ballard’s approach people always jump straight to the “Ballard never hires expensive, big-name free agents”. There are several other ways to add good talent and even for reasonable money, but Ballard just doesn’t. 
 

That said several of Ballard’s day 2 picks haven’t turned out good, but that’s hindsight I guess.  His handling of the LT position was terrible though in my opinion. As was how he handled DE in 2021. I’m not especially hyped about Autry, but he’s better than anyone we’ve had since he left except possibly Ebukam. 

 

Not sure how you got here from what I posted. I'm responding to the idea that Ballard lacked urgency at specific positions. It's just not accurate. 

 

Some of his Day 2 picks haven't worked, but others have, right? 

 

I didn't like the handling of LT, and I said so at the time. And now, we have a starting caliber LT, using a third round pick. Kind of highlights the folly of claiming that Ballard lacked urgency at LT, when he probably overspent on a free agent that didn't work out, especially compared to other players he could have signed. He signed Fisher for double what Leno got, and I think Leno was campaigning for attention from the Colts on Twitter.

 

And in 2021, the DE strategy was obvious. It just didn't work. Houston and Autry were fine, but older vets who wanted more money. Turay, Banogu, Lewis, Paye, Dayo, should have been more than capable of replacing them by then. I don't think the coaching staff was getting the most out of our young talent at the time, but I also think the scouting and drafting fell short at DE specificaly.

 

My overall point is people look at the roster right now and say 'these positions got ignored,' and that's simply not true. 

 

5 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Because he’s 54-60-1after 7 years and relies on running it back with rosters with clear issues he simply refuses to do anything about other than drafting guys with lime green bars and hoping for the best. 
 

What good are guys like Leonard, Smith, Pittman, and Taylor if THIS is what we do with them as a team? We’re just wasting those guys because “we like our guys” in other rooms even though everyone under the sun is pointing out as an issue. 
 

And it’s never going to change. 

 

So that's an entirely different conversation, right?

 

Edit: This has now turned into another Ballard grievances thread. I'm sorry for sharing in the derailing. I'm done with this topic in this thread.

Edited March 19 by Superman

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Thats not the point. Nor am I saying Ballard should emulate grigson, so don’t try to pull more misdirection nonsense with that. 
 

You said, and I direct quote:

 

”his FA approach is the approach that every GM has taken since he became owner.”

 

Which is absolutely not true. Not even a little bit true. If every GM has taken that approach Ballard and grigson would not be polar opposites. 

 

Because he’s 54-60-1after 7 years and relies on running it back with rosters with clear issues he simply refuses to do anything about other than drafting guys with lime green bars and hoping for the best. 
 

What good are guys like Leonard, Smith, Pittman, and Taylor if THIS is what we do with them as a team? We’re just wasting those guys because “we like our guys” in other rooms even though everyone under the sun is pointing out as an issue. 
 

And it’s never going to change. 

How is it untrue? Polian, Grigson  and Ballard don't sign week one free agents.   Grigs signed a bunch of tier two free agents.   I'm guessing Irsay has a philosophy. He  hires his GMs with the same philosophy.   

[GoColts8818]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

How is it untrue? Polian, Grigson  and Ballard don't sign week one free agents.   Grigs signed a bunch of tier two free agents.   I'm guessing Irsay has a philosophy. He  hires his GMs with the same philosophy.   

I heard Dan Patrick on the radio today talking about this and saying owners set the philosophies for their team.  That’s why you see the same teams signing splash free agents every year and the same teams building through the draft every year.

[Colts1324]

This has been an interesting FA. First 2-3 days were wild. However, it’s been the slowest week 2 FA across the league that I can remember. 

[Solid84]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

“There are several other ways to add good talent and at reasonable, but Ballard just doesn’t.”   ????    Huh?  
 

Can you elaborate on what ways Ballard doesn’t do?    The only thing I’m aware of that CB doesn’t do is sign FA’s to big expensive contracts of 4 and 5 years.  (Excluding Matt Gay).  His FA signing actually 1-3 years.  
 

So what am I not understanding?  

Well, if you go back a few pages in this thread you’d see we counted how many FAs Ballard has signed to $10+m contracts since he got here. 4. In 8 years he’s signed 4 players to between $10-13m. Not huge contracts, mid-tier. 
 

There are so many quality players who get signed to $8-13m contracts each year. Difference makers who could improve this team. But they pass us by. Year after year. Meanwhile we run it back with the same guys who folded with the playoffs on the line in 2021 and again in 2023. But this time!…..
 

Instead what happens is we sign a bunch of nobodies and campfodder, then after the draft we sign more nobodies to plug holes. Then when the end of season presser comes around we have to listen to the same drivel year after year. “I didn’t do a good enough job”. “I underestimated blah blah”. “We need to get more explosive”.

[John Waylon]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

So that's an entirely different conversation, right?

No. An entirely different conversation about what? He misses in the draft on guys like Banogu and Wilson and then he doesn’t do dick to fix those issues down the line when they turn out to be much less help than we actually need. 
 

Now we still need pass rush and corner, even all these years later. 
 

If you can’t find a guy in the draft then spend a little money in FA and get someone. We’ve seen he can do it with guys like Ebukam and Houston, he’s not a totally negligent talent evaluator, but his team building philosophy is well established, it’s flawed, and we’re going to be stuck in the middle as long as it is allowed to continue. 

[Solid84]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Not sure how you got here from what I posted. I'm responding to the idea that Ballard lacked urgency at specific positions. It's just not accurate. 

 

Some of his Day 2 picks haven't worked, but others have, right? 

 

I didn't like the handling of LT, and I said so at the time. And now, we have a starting caliber LT, using a third round pick. Kind of highlights the folly of claiming that Ballard lacked urgency at LT, when he probably overspent on a free agent that didn't work out, especially compared to other players he could have signed. He signed Fisher for double what Leno got, and I think Leno was campaigning for attention from the Colts on Twitter.

 

And in 2021, the DE strategy was obvious. It just didn't work. Houston and Autry were fine, but older vets who wanted more money. Turay, Banogu, Lewis, Paye, Dayo, should have been more than capable of replacing them by then. I don't think the coaching staff was getting the most out of our young talent at the time, but I also think the scouting and drafting fell short at DE specificaly.

 

My overall point is people look at the roster right now and say 'these positions got ignored,' and that's simply not true. 

 

 

So that's an entirely different conversation, right?

 

Edit: This has now turned into another Ballard grievances thread. I'm sorry for sharing in the derailing. I'm done with this topic in this thread.

I may have misunderstood the original post I responded to, apologies. 

[John Waylon]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

Edit: This has now turned into another Ballard grievances thread. I'm sorry for sharing in the derailing. I'm done with this topic in this thread.

Oh get off your high horse. As shocking as this might be, the Colts FA discussions directly include Ballard and his philosophies on not doing anything to make this team any better. it’s not the end of the world if there’s some spillover. If we went to the Ballard grievances thread to talk about FA you’d just whine that we’re talking about FA in that thread.
 

They’re subjects that are intertwined at the hip. One is responsible for the other and they both share the same root subject. It’s the same darn thing. 

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Oh get off your high horse. As shocking as this might be, the Colts FA discussions directly include Ballard and his philosophies on not doing anything to make this team any better. it’s not the end of the world if there’s some spillover. If we went to the Ballard grievances thread to talk about FA you’d just whine that we’re talking about FA in that thread.
 

They’re subjects that are intertwined at the hip. One is responsible for the other and they both share the same root subject. It’s the same darn thing. 

I wasn't aware free agency was over

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Oh get off your high horse. As shocking as this might be, the Colts FA discussions directly include Ballard and his philosophies on not doing anything to make this team any better. it’s not the end of the world if there’s some spillover. If we went to the Ballard grievances thread to talk about FA you’d just whine that we’re talking about FA in that thread.
 

They’re subjects that are intertwined at the hip. One is responsible for the other and they both share the same root subject. It’s the same darn thing. 

 

This is totally unnecessary, and very unappreciated. There's no reason for this kind of aggression toward me.

 

[John Waylon]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

I wasn't aware free agency was over

No. We’re just down to the bandaids and bargains. 
 

Again. 
 

With a lot more money wrapped up in a team that didn’t make it last year, while the team that beat us in the division has taken a step forward. 
 

You know, again. 

[smittywerb]

52 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

The Colts weren't close to bottom five in any category last year. 

30th in hurries

[DougDew]

43 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

 His handling of the LT position was terrible though in my opinion.

I don't know how this could be contested. 

 

AC informs CB is going to retire, but then re-ups for a two year deal.  When AC does retire, we have no developmental guy on the roster, and Ballard then targets Eric Fisher who, IIRC, is coming off of a late season achilles tear, and signs him to a non-franchis-ish contract.  When Fisher doesn't work out, CB signs Pryor and I think another stop gap dude.

 

He drafts Raiman, but after he drafts a one-note speed guy WR and a RAS TE.  I'm glad Raimann worked out, but geez that's a nonchalant way to address a top 5 important position.  

 

[John Waylon]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

This is totally unnecessary, and very unappreciated. There's no reason for this kind of aggression toward me.

 

There’s no reason for the passive aggressiveness that a thread about Colts FA has also included criticism of Chris Ballard and an assessment of his job. Of course it would. It was always going to. And you somehow can’t participate because of that? 
 
Whatever.
 

I’ve never treated you with anything but respect, but that was lame and I’m blunt enough to tell you that. No disrespect intended, but no nonsense intended either. I shoot as straight as it gets, and that’s lame. 
 

This FA period is just another example of why Ballard is doing a bad job with this team overall. It should not matter what thread that is discussed in when it’s the same darn thing. 

[Colt Overseas]

Think that’s everyone from the 2023 roster that’s either re-signed or signed somewhere else.