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Colts Coaching Staff Ranked Tier 3 (amongst 6) amongst NFL coaching staff


chad72

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  • chad72 changed the title to Colts Coaching Staff Ranked Tier 3 (amongst 6) amongst NFL coaching staff
2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This list is putrid. Disappointed in CBS. So DeMeco Ryans and Houston is Cream of the Crop and we are Tier 3?? Ryans had his starting QB for most of the year, Shane didn't. We were 1 play away from beating them for the Division with Minshew at QB. Shane was the better Coach ahead of Ryans, sorry CBS. This Houston love fest is getting real old already by many in the media. Had Houston ran away with the division and won 11 or 12 games, I could buy it. But NAH, give me Shane all day. I can't wait for the season when AR comes out and matches whatever Stroud does. I think we will win the Division; I am calling it now. I have no reason to think otherwise, we had it won with Minshew at QB lmao .

 

Tier 3 is an insult; they can stick that in their tail pipe and smoke it.

Here's my issue with what you have to say. At least for year 1, it was more likely that Minshew would get more wins than Richardson. Richardson was really raw as a QB. I would have rather had Richardson win 6-8 games and get a year of development than Minshew win 9 games and miss the playoffs, but Steichen had an easier year with Minshew for one year in all likelyhood because he was the veteran that had experience already. He has hit his ceiling (which is 9 wins), but that's probably higher than Richardson in year 1. Houston probably clinches the AFC South before we play them in week 18 if Richardson is healthy all season.

 

Stroud is honestly a top 10 QB already (I think you may have said this, can't remember if it was you). DeMeco Ryans and Bobby Slowik got the best out of him very quickly. He struggled against elite defenses like the Ravens and Jets, but he was pretty solid against everyone else. 

 

I would also say Gus Bradley drags the Colts ranking down quite a bit. The guy is doo doo, and he should have been fired in all honesty. he's going to hurt the team next year. He's buddy-buddy with Steichen and that's why he kept his job.

 

I agree with the Colts in the third tier, but I will say the Texans should be in the second tier instead of the first tier, that's an overreaction by CBS to put them in the first tier.

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3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This list is putrid. Disappointed in CBS. So DeMeco Ryans and Houston is Cream of the Crop and we are Tier 3?? Ryans had his starting QB for most of the year, Shane didn't. We were 1 play away from beating them for the Division with Minshew at QB. Shane was the better Coach ahead of Ryans, sorry CBS. This Houston love fest is getting real old already by many in the media. Had Houston ran away with the division and won 11 or 12 games, I could buy it. But NAH, give me Shane all day. I can't wait for the season when AR comes out and matches whatever Stroud does. I think we will win the Division; I am calling it now. I have no reason to think otherwise, we had it won with Minshew at QB lmao .

 

Tier 3 is an insult; they can stick that in their tail pipe and smoke it.

Unfortunately that's what happens when you lose. Regardless of who is playing (unless you're any other team it seem) the Colts are ALWAYS judged and victims of this for whatever reason. We could have signed the local bum off the street to play QB, and it wouldn't be any different.

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53 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

Here's my issue with what you have to say. At least for year 1, it was more likely that Minshew would get more wins than Richardson. Richardson was really raw as a QB. I would have rather had Richardson win 6-8 games and get a year of development than Minshew win 9 games and miss the playoffs, but Steichen had an easier year with Minshew for one year in all likelyhood because he was the veteran that had experience already. He has hit his ceiling (which is 9 wins), but that's probably higher than Richardson in year 1. Houston probably clinches the AFC South before we play them in week 18 if Richardson is healthy all season.

 

Stroud is honestly a top 10 QB already (I think you may have said this, can't remember if it was you). DeMeco Ryans and Bobby Slowik got the best out of him very quickly. He struggled against elite defenses like the Ravens and Jets, but he was pretty solid against everyone else. 

 

I would also say Gus Bradley drags the Colts ranking down quite a bit. The guy is doo doo, and he should have been fired in all honesty. he's going to hurt the team next year. He's buddy-buddy with Steichen and that's why he kept his job.

 

I agree with the Colts in the third tier, but I will say the Texans should be in the second tier instead of the first tier, that's an overreaction by CBS to put them in the first tier.

"Stroud is honestly a top 10 QB already". You made my point with that 1 comment because I agree Stroud probably rounds out the top 10 as I did mention yesterday so it was me. Minshew is above average but probably ranks around 20th by most. Maybe even lower? Shane got us to 9-8 with a backup QB, Ryans had his guy and they barely beat us. IMO, Shane was the better coach. Now if someone wanted to say their D coordinator is better than Gus than I can buy that. I don't like Gus' scheme though. We give up way too many 3rd and longs. That cost us 2 or 3 games actually.

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20 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

"Stroud is honestly a top 10 QB already". You made my point with that 1 comment because I agree Stroud probably rounds out the top 10 as I did mention yesterday so it was me. Minshew is above average but probably ranks around 20th by most. Maybe even lower? Shane got us to 9-8 with a backup QB, Ryans had his guy and they barely beat us. IMO, Shane was the better coach. Now if someone wanted to say their D coordinator is better than Gus than I can buy that. I don't like Gus' scheme though. We give up way too many 3rd and longs. That cost us 2 or 3 games actually.

I think that both Texans coordinators are better than ours. HC is debatable, Steichen I'd probably favor right now. I'm still sticking to the fact that Minshew last year was probably better than Richardson, but I will acknowledge that Richardson was doing great Vs the Texans specifically. 

 

We will see how Richardson grows next year. 

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Just now, Yoshinator said:

I think that both Texans coordinators are better than ours. HC is debatable, Steichen I'd probably favor right now. I'm still sticking to the fact that Minshew last year was probably better than Richardson, but I will acknowledge that Richardson was doing great Vs the Texans specifically. 

 

We will see how Richardson grows next year. 

 

Even though it is a small sample space, based on 2 games vs Lamar and 1 half vs AR, I feel the Texans' D has an issue with dual threat QBs, just my opinion. Colts are rocking the division in 2024 with AR.

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4 hours ago, chad72 said:

I agree.  Very subjective.

 

There's a liberal spicing of "flavor of the month" in this article.  DeMeco Ryans and Dan Campbell are popular -- for now.  What happens if next year their teams don't play as well against more difficult schedules?  Or if they suffer significant injuries and don't win as much?  Will the coaches still be ranked as high?  Or is this just a popularity thing?

 

If they wanted to rank coaching staffs, I would like to see position coaches as well.  Not just HC, OC, DC.

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Just now, chad72 said:

 

Even though it is a small sample space, based on 2 games vs Lamar and 1 half vs AR, I feel the Texans' D has an issue with dual threat QBs, just my opinion. Colts are rocking the division in 2024 with AR.

Good point here about the dual threat QBs. That's a weakness that can be exploited. AR just has to stay healthy and get the accuracy up some. Hoping we'll draft a burner WR so he can capitalize on some short passes as well. 

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9 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

I agree.  Very subjective.

 

There's a liberal spicing of "flavor of the month" in this article.  DeMeco Ryans and Dan Campbell are popular -- for now.  What happens if next year their teams don't play as well against more difficult schedules?  Or if they suffer significant injuries and don't win as much?  Will the coaches still be ranked as high?  Or is this just a popularity thing?

 

If they wanted to rank coaching staffs, I would like to see position coaches as well.  Not just HC, OC, DC.

 

Dan Campbell at least had 2 years of good performances from 2nd in NFC North, to division winner / NFCCG appearance performances in those 2 years. Not the case with DeMeco Ryans.

 

Let a coaching staff operate at a high level for 2 years at least before crowning them, isn't that a fair thing to ask if an article needs to be taken seriously? 

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The funny thing is that the Stefanski summarization could very well be Steichen's as well, Both had injuries at QB (the Colts longer), both were missing their elite RB for good portion of season and both had injuries to the tackle position. We also had the same offensive ppg 23.3 The big difference between them though is that Jim Schwartz (13th for points allowed per game) is a good DC and we have Bradley (28th for points allowed per game).

 

But you all are right, if we made the playoffs Steichen may have won coach of the year but we didn't.

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5 hours ago, chad72 said:


 

It’s also from CBS Sports.com.   
 

I’ll be polite and simply say they’re not very good.   This is not a new position for me.   It’s been my view since I arrived here.  
 

So I don’t give their opinions much weight. 

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24 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

The funny thing is that the Stefanski summarization could very well be Steichen's as well, Both had injuries at QB (the Colts longer), both were missing their elite RB for good portion of season and both had injuries to the tackle position. We also had the same offensive ppg 23.3 The big difference between them though is that Jim Schwartz (13th for points allowed per game) is a good DC and we have Bradley (28th for points allowed per game).

 

But you all are right, if we made the playoffs Steichen may have won coach of the year but we didn't.

Yep, the whole dynamic would have been different. People would be looking at this team differently. The game against the Texans made people look at the two teams in completely different ways. In reality, it was one game to decide a playoff berth, but that playoff berth separated both teams into two groups, playoff and non-playoff teams, and the Texans had a shot to win the Super Bowl (albeit a small one). They dominated the Browns with a rookie QB and Coach, which makes them look even better and makes the media higher on them as well.

 

Add all that up with the Wentz choke job and 2022 when Saturday took over and we tanked, and it's a bad look for the Colts as a team and it'll take a playoff run to recover from that and change people's minds and opinion about us that we are good again. 

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

"Stroud is honestly a top 10 QB already". You made my point with that 1 comment because I agree Stroud probably rounds out the top 10 as I did mention yesterday so it was me. Minshew is above average but probably ranks around 20th by most. Maybe even lower? Shane got us to 9-8 with a backup QB, Ryans had his guy and they barely beat us. IMO, Shane was the better coach. Now if someone wanted to say their D coordinator is better than Gus than I can buy that. I don't like Gus' scheme though. We give up way too many 3rd and longs. That cost us 2 or 3 games actually.


Minshew?   20th?    Hey, I’m as big of a Minshew fan as we have here.   But 20th?

 

Seriously?    I think he’s maybe closer to 25th, at best.    Honestly, he’s a high level backup, but he’s not a starter. 

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1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

Dan Campbell at least had 2 years of good performances from 2nd in NFC North, to division winner / NFCCG appearance performances in those 2 years. Not the case with DeMeco Ryans.

 

Let a coaching staff operate at a high level for 2 years at least before crowning them, isn't that a fair thing to ask if an article needs to be taken seriously? 

 

Yeah, I don't lump Dan Campbell in with Demeco Ryans. The Lions look legit, they have one of the hottest OCs in the league, and even their DC gets HC consideration. Ranking that coaching staff in the top tier is reasonable.

 

And I have no problem with where they rank the Colts. 'Promising outlook, too early to tell, but optimistic' sounds exactly right for us. It's probably where the Texans staff should be, but they also have a really hot OC. The writer also acknowledges that it's probably not a fair estimation of the Texans, and more of a projection.

 

Ultimately, this is about as valuable as a regular season power rankings list. But I don't take too much issue with how they rate the Colts staff. Not for now...

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2 hours ago, Yoshinator said:

Here's my issue with what you have to say. At least for year 1, it was more likely that Minshew would get more wins than Richardson. Richardson was really raw as a QB. I would have rather had Richardson win 6-8 games and get a year of development than Minshew win 9 games and miss the playoffs, but Steichen had an easier year with Minshew for one year in all likelyhood because he was the veteran that had experience already. He has hit his ceiling (which is 9 wins), but that's probably higher than Richardson in year 1. Houston probably clinches the AFC South before we play them in week 18 if Richardson is healthy all season.

 

You sure like to play hypotheticals. Minshew's ceiling was higher than Richardson's ceiling would have been in year 1?  Sure, the floor was higher, but the ceiling? I saw enough to dispute that entirely. But again, it's hypothetical and pointless to make "probabilities" that are just based on opinion. "More likely, in all likelihood, probably, probably, if." That's 5 probability statements in a single paragraph, and by whose metrics? 

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7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:


Minshew?   20th?    Hey, I’m as big of a Minshew fan as we have here.   But 20th?

 

Seriously?    I think he’s maybe closer to 25th, at best.    Honestly, he’s a high level backup, but he’s not a starter. 

That even makes my point stronger. When I said 20th, I did say even lower. 20 was generous on my part.

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5 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That even makes my point stronger. When I said 20th, I did say even lower. 20 was generous on my part.

It makes my point in many eyes including yours regarding that Ryans had a much better QB to help him succeed than what Shane had. Stroud was arguably a top 10 QB this past season, Minshew like you said, probably doesn't crack the top 20. 

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17 hours ago, Zoltan said:

The funny thing is that the Stefanski summarization could very well be Steichen's as well, Both had injuries at QB (the Colts longer), both were missing their elite RB for good portion of season and both had injuries to the tackle position. We also had the same offensive ppg 23.3 The big difference between them though is that Jim Schwartz (13th for points allowed per game) is a good DC and we have Bradley (28th for points allowed per game).

 

But you all are right, if we made the playoffs Steichen may have won coach of the year but we didn't.

Colts missed their elite RB for what 4 + 2 = 6 games? Browns elite RB had something close to 100 yards early in the season before suffering a gruesome injury, that looked like ending his whole career. Both situations are vastly different.

 

And, Stefanski has proved to be a great head coach for several years and has brought respect for the Browns organization, something that couldn't be imaginable about Browns for decades until he arrived, so he's definitely a tier 1 HC even though he needs to step up in Playoffs and that could happen if he gets stability and good play from QB position consistently. 

 

Colts coaching staff gets lower ranking rightly due to their sticking to Gus Bradley, who would rank in the lower half at best. Colts can move up with better results as the article hoped for optimism. 

 

Texans coaching staff should be tier 2, and 49ers staff should be tier 1. 

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I read up until the colts and stopped. Seemed decent rankings until then. I for one think the Texans staff deserve a lot of credit for doing what they did with their roster. Most people felt the Colts roster was better than the 4th pick but the Texans were truly one of the worst teams in the league. They did a good job.  Colts do appear to have an outstanding head coach. I really like Shane and I’m guessing if AR can stay healthy we will see the team move up list like these

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On 2/23/2024 at 8:49 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This list is putrid. Disappointed in CBS. So DeMeco Ryans and Houston is Cream of the Crop and we are Tier 3?? Ryans had his starting QB for most of the year, Shane didn't. We were 1 play away from beating them for the Division with Minshew at QB. Shane was the better Coach ahead of Ryans, sorry CBS. This Houston love fest is getting real old already by many in the media. Had Houston ran away with the division and won 11 or 12 games, I could buy it. But NAH, give me Shane all day. I can't wait for the season when AR comes out and matches whatever Stroud does. I think we will win the Division; I am calling it now. I have no reason to think otherwise, we had it won with Minshew at QB lmao .

 

Tier 3 is an insult; they can stick that in their tail pipe and smoke it.

A key part of being a successful coach is play calling that includes protecting your most important player. AR’s season ended on a dumb call, especially since AR had already shown in his first couple games that he was anything but indestructible. Is Shane a good coach? No doubt he seems to be, but let’s see how he handles play calling this year. 9-8 will probably be our ceiling again unless AR plays most games. With the offense we saw for AR, I wouldn’t bet a dime that he will escape another season ending injury.

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19 hours ago, azcolt said:

A key part of being a successful coach is play calling that includes protecting your most important player. AR’s season ended on a dumb call, especially since AR had already shown in his first couple games that he was anything but indestructible. Is Shane a good coach? No doubt he seems to be, but let’s see how he handles play calling this year. 9-8 will probably be our ceiling again unless AR plays most games. With the offense we saw for AR, I wouldn’t bet a dime that he will escape another season ending injury.

AR's injury could've happened to any QB, he just fell wrong. Unfortunately, it stands out in here because he plays for the Colts. That is like blaming Ryans for Stroud getting concussed and missing 2 games. That is more on Stroud, needing to know when to go down or throw the ball away.

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On 2/25/2024 at 9:19 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

AR's injury could've happened to any QB, he just fell wrong. Unfortunately, it stands out in here because he plays for the Colts. That is like blaming Ryans for Stroud getting concussed and missing 2 games. That is more on Stroud, needing to know when to go down or throw the ball away.

No it couldn’t have happened to virtually any qb unless the qb missed a handoff. Calling a qb run play nowhere close to the goal line with no option to pass or pitch the ball was stupid, especially since AR was only a couple games removed from a prior KO.

If AR can only excel by running such reckless plays, the Colts better be planning for another short qb career.

 

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17 minutes ago, azcolt said:

No it couldn’t have happened to virtually any qb unless the qb missed a handoff. Calling a qb run play nowhere close to the goal line with no option to pass or pitch the ball was stupid, especially since AR was only a couple games removed from a prior KO.

If AR can only excel by running such reckless plays, the Colts better be planning for another short qb career.

 

“Reckless” —really?

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40 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

“Reckless” —really?

After the guy had barely returned from the concussion, yeah reckless and stupid. I know it’s way too early for some people to criticize a new coach but this team needs a healthy qb to play upwards of 20 games each year. Do you think running qb sweeps in the middle of the field is likely to further that outcome? Recent history says otherwise.
 

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38 minutes ago, azcolt said:

After the guy had barely returned from the concussion, yeah reckless and stupid. I know it’s way too early for some people to criticize a new coach but this team needs a healthy qb to play upwards of 20 games each year. Do you think running qb sweeps in the middle of the field is likely to further that outcome? Recent history says otherwise.
 

 

You might want to cover your eyes whenever we're on offense. The QB runs aren't going away anytime soon...

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50 minutes ago, azcolt said:

After the guy had barely returned from the concussion, yeah reckless and stupid. I know it’s way too early for some people to criticize a new coach but this team needs a healthy qb to play upwards of 20 games each year. Do you think running qb sweeps in the middle of the field is likely to further that outcome? Recent history says otherwise.
 


Lamar Jackson says hello!  
 

Josh Allen says hello! 

 

Justin Fields says hello!

 

The Colts didn’t draft Anthony Richardson just to change him after one year. 

 


 

 

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3 hours ago, azcolt said:

No it couldn’t have happened to virtually any qb unless the qb missed a handoff. Calling a qb run play nowhere close to the goal line with no option to pass or pitch the ball was stupid, especially since AR was only a couple games removed from a prior KO.

If AR can only excel by running such reckless plays, the Colts better be planning for another short qb career.

 

So, you blame Shane for AR's injury?

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16 hours ago, Superman said:

 

You might want to cover your eyes whenever we're on offense. The QB runs aren't going away anytime soon...

 

Exactly!!! It is not like even Mahomes shies away from running, he is just smart about it, and Lamar has gotten smarter about it too to prolong his longevity. Everything else is a knee jerk reaction based on what happened on the field. 

 

Mahomes did his QB sneak in 2020 and dislocated his knee cap vs the Broncos and missed a few games and Andy Reid has chosen not to QB sneak Mahomes ever since. But Andy Reid didn't tell Mahomes to absolutely abandon running when defenders are playing man coverage with their backs to the QB. Same thing with John Harbaugh. Just because Lamar missed a couple of seasons with injury, he did not tell Lamar to stop using his legs, just asked him to use it judiciously. Same thing with Sean McDermott and Josh Allen.

 

Ultimately, teaching the QB to evolve picking his spots to run is also part of QB development that is going to happen with AR in the future. Learning to slide, learning not to go for the extra yards when you have already gotten the first down etc. is all part of it. 

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On 2/23/2024 at 8:53 AM, chad72 said:

I’ll say nothing about the ridiculous over ranking of Ryan’s as it’s already been brought up but how in the hell is Philly and Sirianni at Level 2 and above Steichen?!  They literally faltered after losing Shane.  This is another article intentionally being controversial just for clicks 

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While i don't totally agree with the article, I can understand some of their rankings.  The Colts had every chance to win their division and even get a top seed in the playoffs and they failed.  teir 3 sounds right.

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18 hours ago, Myles said:

While i don't totally agree with the article, I can understand some of their rankings.  The Colts had every chance to win their division and even get a top seed in the playoffs and they failed.  teir 3 sounds right.

I blame the Colts playoff failure on one person: Grover Stewart.  He chose to ingest one or more PED’s, and missed SIX games in mid-season.  There, I said it.

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4 hours ago, Dingus McGirt said:

I blame the Colts playoff failure on one person: Grover Stewart.  He chose to ingest one or more PED’s, and missed SIX games in mid-season.  There, I said it.

i would agree that he contributed to it, but the coaching staff, as a whole, performed as a "tier 3" would.

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On 2/29/2024 at 6:08 AM, ArmchairQB said:

I’ll say nothing about the ridiculous over ranking of Ryan’s as it’s already been brought up but how in the hell is Philly and Sirianni at Level 2 and above Steichen?!  They literally faltered after losing Shane.  This is another article intentionally being controversial just for clicks 

Because they've been to Super Bowl once, and their whole tenure comes into the picture when someone subjectively thinks about ranking them. Now, they lost their OC and DC and that showed the problems in their current coaching staff, but they still led the league for good part of the year and qualified for playoffs.

 

Steichen was in first year, and lost his promising rookie QB to injury, and still was in play-off contention until last game. But, at the end of the season, they're holding top 15 draft pick, and the article shows lot of optimism that the direction is pointing upwards for Colts.

 

Would you expect an outsider to be more optimistic than that?

 

Tier 3 sounds right for the rookie year, missing top 2 performers - Elite RB and QB - for many of the games. Once we all get to see the actual performance with all star players healthy, we can get to see more people buying into the Colts. 

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On 2/28/2024 at 4:38 PM, ArmchairQB said:

I’ll say nothing about the ridiculous over ranking of Ryan’s as it’s already been brought up but how in the hell is Philly and Sirianni at Level 2 and above Steichen?!  They literally faltered after losing Shane.  This is another article intentionally being controversial just for clicks 


Huh?   I’m pretty sure the Eagles and Sirianni were in the Super Bowl a year ago and were a few minutes away from winning.   They had a disappointing season this year and still started 10-1 before things got ugly at the end.   
 

Never the less, it’s not unreasonable to have the Philly coaching staff ranked higher than Steichen and the Colts.  I’m surprised you’d even challenge it.  

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