What did the Superbowl teach us about team building?

[Moosejawcolt]

I am interested on feedback on what people have garnered from watching the top two teams in the Superbowl as it relates to team building. I am thinking about the need for a true #1 receiver? Continue to build in the trenches?  San Fran's defense is very similar to what the Colts run and what did people see from that D as the game wore on?  It was evident at the game got to the 4th, the D line was gassed and this is supposedly a great D line. That has been one of my biggest issues with this D. I have always contended that as the game wears on, this defense becomes very predictable as the Dline wears down and the Qb becomes very comfortable carving up the zones.  Wilks tried some blitzes and paid dearly for it. 

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I am interested on feedback on what people have garnered from watching the top two teams in the Superbowl as it relates to team building. I am thinking about the need for a true #1 receiver? Continue to build in the trenches?  San Fran's defense is very similar to what the Colts run and what did people see from that D as the game wore on?  It was evident at the game got to the 4th, the D line was gassed and this is supposedly a great D line. That has been one of my biggest issues with this D. I have always contended that as the game wears on, this defense becomes very predictable as the Dline wears down and the Qb becomes very comfortable carving up the zones.  Wilks tried some blitzes and paid dearly for it. 

We needs star wars numbers on offense that takes pressure off our defense  and gives them more room for error.

[Moosejawcolt]

Just now, Stephen said:

We needs star wars numbers on offense that takes pressure off our defense  and gives them more room for error.

We had that with Peyton and how did that work? The Chiefs  team that won the Superbowl were by far their most balanced team by far.

[BProland85]

What I learned is this team and in particular Richardson needs an elite TE. An elite move the chains weapon who’s very reliable for Richardson would be huge. We need Bowers. 
 

We also need a better pass defense that makes the QB hold onto the ball longer and allowing the DL to get to them. This should be a make or break year for Bradley as DC. 

[chad72]

QB, QB, QB...drives the show with a margin of error provided by a very good defense and OL to protect him with enough pass catchers on the same page as him (Kelce and Rice were the main ones), and run the ball to mix it up.

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I am interested on feedback on what people have garnered from watching the top two teams in the Superbowl as it relates to team building. I am thinking about the need for a true #1 receiver? Continue to build in the trenches?  San Fran's defense is very similar to what the Colts run and what did people see from that D as the game wore on?  It was evident at the game got to the 4th, the D line was gassed and this is supposedly a great D line. That has been one of my biggest issues with this D. I have always contended that as the game wears on, this defense becomes very predictable as the Dline wears down and the Qb becomes very comfortable carving up the zones.  Wilks tried some blitzes and paid dearly for it. 

They (49ers) lost their CB1 and their DT 1 to injuries. Samual was hobbled with a hammy.

 

 

[Bravo]

1.) Great QB is a must.

 

2.) If you don’t have a great QB he needs as many elite weapons as possible.

 

3.) Pass rush is alway important.

 

4.) Soft zones DO NOT work… (Gus!)

[chad72]

11 minutes ago, Bravo said:

1.) Great QB is a must.

 

2.) If you don’t have a great QB he needs as many elite weapons as possible.

 

3.) Pass rush is always important.

 

4.) Soft zones DO NOT work… (Gus!)

 

I would put 3. over 2. and agree whole heartedly with 1 and 4, you have to vary your defensive schemes and have versatility on D to help your D make plays.

[Moosejawcolt]

8 minutes ago, Bravo said:

1.) Great QB is a must.

 

2.) If you don’t have a great QB he needs as many elite weapons as possible.

 

3.) Pass rush is alway important.

 

4.) Soft zones DO NOT work… (Gus!)

Yup. A number 1 is not needed and neither is an elite rb.  Need to be built through the trenches and a blue chip Qb.  Although I have been hard on Ballard and have been criticized for it, I have supported his belief in the you have to be solid up front. The only problem is that his building the Dline has been a failure.  I will also never get on board with this scheme. The other fact is that KC is a very solid team. This is probably their best team they have put forth in terms of having a really good D and a good O.  I remember watching the game and when San Fran missed on that 3 and 4th, I said to my wife the game is over. Sure, they would kick the field goal but I knew that the Chiefs would come back and tie it going to OT. I also knew that San Fran could not get any pressure as their Dline was spent. Mahonnes became comfortable and sliced the D and you could see that in their last 3-4 possessions. Wilks tried to blitz and paid for it as that is not what this teams does with  any type of success because of their personnel being  suited for zone.

[richard pallo]

Defenses always get gassed when they’re on the field too long.  You can never have enough depth in the trenches.  We need improved depth at offensive and defensive tackle.  And I mean experienced depth.  When Grover and Smith were out we had no answer.   Need a WR we can count on to stretch the field too.  Everybody sees that.  

[ColtsGermany]

What the game taught me about team building: A well rounded Team can bring you that far. But to get to the promised land,your coach needs to accept lessons learned and stay calm.

 

I still can't figure why Shanahan didn't run the damn Ball 3 times before and after 2 min warning....a 6 yd run on 1st and 10. Nice! Then a rollout pass to a route on the line of scrimmage?! C'mon! And to make it worse, another pass play on 3rd and 4. All that while KC was blitzing the hell out of vegas all game....that was just poor game and clock management. Run the ball at least on 3rd and 4 after the 2 min warning. If you don't get the 1st....well, at least it leaves KC with only 1 timeout. It would have been a different drive for KC then....Still mad about those decisions.

 

So, Roster building is important. But it's only one half on your way to championship!

My 2 cents.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, BProland85 said:

What I learned is this team and in particular Richardson needs an elite TE. An elite move the chains weapon who’s very reliable for Richardson would be huge. We need Bowers. 
 

We also need a better pass defense that makes the QB hold onto the ball longer and allowing the DL to get to them. This should be a make or break year for Bradley as DC. 

I’m not really overly concerned with the defense.  I’m expecting Ballard to bring in a couple of experienced additions for that side of the ball.  I think he knows he has to.  If he does I think the defense will be very good and will surprise many.  Our offense should improve quite a bit with AR returning.  That will automatically help the defense as well.

[Nesjan3]

Need a QB. Need protection for the QB. Need a pass rush. Need a legit weapon or two. Premium positions.

[chad72]

Just now, Nesjan3 said:

Need a QB. Need protection for the QB. Need a pass rush. Premium positions.

 

If you don't have a DT like Aaron Donald or Chris Jones to beat your guy off the snap in the middle, at least have the ability to manufacture pass rushes with disguised blitzing from LBs and safeties at the line of scrimmage, IMO.

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, BProland85 said:

What I learned is this team and in particular Richardson needs an elite TE. An elite move the chains weapon who’s very reliable for Richardson would be huge. We need Bowers. 
 

We also need a better pass defense that makes the QB hold onto the ball longer and allowing the DL to get to them. This should be a make or break year for Bradley as DC. 

Don't  necessarily  need an elite te we do need an elite pass catcher that is a threat to score every play

[Nesjan3]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

If you don't have a DT like Aaron Donald or Chris Jones to beat your guy off the snap in the middle, at least have the ability to manufacture pass rushes with disguised blitzing from LBs and safeties at the line of scrimmage, IMO.

KC's pass rush basically won the game for them. Key plays where the 49ers could have daggered them Purdy literally had under a second it seemed.

[chad72]

Just now, Nesjan3 said:

KC's pass rush basically won the game for them. Key plays where the 49ers could have daggered them Purdy literally had under a second it seemed.

 

Yep. A couple of occasions Deebo had a step but Purdy couldn't step into the throw because of someone barreling down his face, thus leading to inaccurate incompletions.

[Moosejawcolt]

4 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

KC's pass rush basically won the game for them. Key plays where the 49ers could have daggered them Purdy literally had under a second it seemed.

This road to the Superbowl was paved by their D and not the O, which is  a good thing. You have a very good D and a blue chip qb who makes everyone better around him. 

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

KC's pass rush basically won the game for them. Key plays where the 49ers could have daggered them Purdy literally had under a second it seemed.

A DT Chris Jones  hurt them on two occasions.  A DT no less.  One of the best in the league but a DT not an ER.  Unblocked at the end of the game that turned the game around.

[Nesjan3]

Just now, richard pallo said:

A DT Chris Jones  hurt them on two occasions.  A DT no less.  One of the best in the league but a DT not an ER.  Unblocked at the end of the game that turned the game around.

Pass rush can come in many forms. An elite DT, an elite Edge, elite scheme.

 

I think KC has the DT and the scheme. Im not sure if we have any. Needs investment. Paye can go.

 

QB is TBD. Pittman im not sure is the elite weapon that will get us there, we need to invest in that position more. Whether its an elite TE like KC has or another wide out.

 

LT and the Oline I think is pretty well solidified.

 

CB I would say is TBD as well because of the youth but further investment wouldnt hurt. 

 

If you look at the successful teams in todays NFL these are the positions that are focused on. Thats why they are deemed premium positions. Its something Ballard has stubbornly refused to do, but seems to be coming around lately. 

[chad72]

14 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Don't  necessarily  need an elite te we do need an elite pass catcher that is a threat to score every play

 

We truly don't. We need guys that are sure handed and can get open and move us consistently in the 10-15 yard range, and know how to read Ds to recognize busted coverages and beat the D. That is what got Tom Brady all those SBs and got Mahomes the last 2 SBs. How many SBs did Tom Brady win with Randy Moss? 0 But he won 3 with Edelman and Gronk together.

 

Those routes take a while to form, the big bombs so to speak, those require max. protect or certain protections slided to give your QB the time. In the playoffs, you play elite Ds that don't give you the time typically, so you primarily need sure handed chain movers that can get open fast, with the threat mixed in of a deep threat. But not the other way with several deep threats and just 1 or 2 chain movers.

[jvan1973]

Having the refs not call obvious illegal man down field helps.   But the key is either a great qb or a great defense.   The 49ners looked like the better team , but they didn't win.   

[richard pallo]

17 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

We truly don't. We need guys that are sure handed and can get open and move us consistently in the 10-15 yard range, and know how to read Ds to recognize busted coverages and beat the D. That is what got Tom Brady all those SBs and got Mahomes the last 2 SBs. How many SBs did Tom Brady win with Randy Moss? 0 But he won 3 with Edelman and Gronk together.

 

Those routes take a while to form, the big bombs so to speak, those require max. protect or certain protections slided to give your QB the time. In the playoffs, you play elite Ds that don't give you the time typically, so you primarily need sure handed chain movers that can get open fast, with the threat mixed in of a deep threat. But not the other way with several deep threats and just 1 or 2 chain movers.

Noah Fant is the perfect TE addition that will not cost a fortune that fits the bill of what we need from a TE.  

[smittywerb]

1.  MUST have a good qb.  Mahomes is him, but purdy played well also.  Either way,  must have a good qb.

 

2.  Win the war in the trenches.  Have to protect the qb and if you can’t, the qb better have the ability to move and throw on the run.  On defense, sacks are ok but pressure and qb hits are more important.

 

3.  Stout defensive backfield.  DBs and Safties shorten the field.  Makes it easier on everyone else.  
 

4.  The threat of the big play.  Need to keep the opposing defense honest at all times.  It allows receivers to operate underneath.  
 

5.  Coaching matters.  

[Solid84]

You NEED a QB who can make the all the throws - to stretch the field, to hit tight windows etc.

You NEED weapons on offense - chainmovers, playmakers etc.

You NEED elite playmakers on the Dline - good doesn't cut it.

You NEED elite playmakers in the secondary - again, good doesn't cut it.

You NEED great playcalling on both sides of the ball.

[Dunk]

Special teams are important as well.

The punt that hit the SF blocker down field resulting in a quick Td for KC, and the blocked extra point were huge.

Returner needs coached to be aware and yell at anybody to clear out if they are in the area.

[chad72]

16 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

You NEED a QB who can make the all the throws - to stretch the field, to hit tight windows etc.

You NEED weapons on offense - chainmovers, playmakers etc.

You NEED elite playmakers on the Dline - good doesn't cut it.

You NEED elite playmakers in the secondary - again, good doesn't cut it.

You NEED great playcalling on both sides of the ball.

In other words, everything you need for great pass offense and defense with the running game thrown in.

 

While JT was essential, Mahomes winning 3 with RBs used situationally, Brady winning with Fournette in the check down game and Stafford putting it on his arm for the last 5 SB winners does make you wonder, doesn’t it?  
 

bottom line, you need to coach up yours, young secondary draft picks 

[jvan1973]

38 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

1.  MUST have a good qb.  Mahomes is him, but purdy played well also.  Either way,  must have a good qb.

 

2.  Win the war in the trenches.  Have to protect the qb and if you can’t, the qb better have the ability to move and throw on the run.  On defense, sacks are ok but pressure and qb hits are more important.

 

3.  Stout defensive backfield.  DBs and Safties shorten the field.  Makes it easier on everyone else.  
 

4.  The threat of the big play.  Need to keep the opposing defense honest at all times.  It allows receivers to operate underneath.  
 

5.  Coaching matters.  

1 and 5.  That's what you need

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Solid84 said:

You NEED a QB who can make the all the throws - to stretch the field, to hit tight windows etc.

You NEED weapons on offense - chainmovers, playmakers etc.

You NEED elite playmakers on the Dline - good doesn't cut it.

You NEED elite playmakers in the secondary - again, good doesn't cut it.

You NEED great playcalling on both sides of the ball.

Looks like adding a few explosive playmakers would do it.

[Myles]

A great QB and a very good coach.  Also a solid, balanced team.

[chad72]

11 minutes ago, Myles said:

A great QB and a very good coach.  Also a solid, balanced team.

 

I do think Ballard has a leg up on Polian and Grigson on the special teams front. Now, we just need the QB position to be the playmaker we want and a lot of things will fall in place. Learning to win close games will come with time for a young team. The Seahawks run of 2-3 great years happened over time with the DL depth bolstered, LB depth bolstered and DB quality in place. Then the game managing / chain moving QB in Russell Wilson came along, and OL came along with their ability to dictate tempo with Marshawn Lynch with plenty of margin for error provided by the defensive pieces in place.

 

Just not sure if the Seahawks formula can work in the modern era. It can, if you have enough WRs and TEs that can block well, I guess. Developing and improving our young secondary is critical vs elite QBs to have the ability to play man coverage, they tend to eat zone coverage alive.

[Defjamz26]

The biggest takeaway is that QB is the most import position. One team had a 1st round QB that they traded into the top 10 to get. The other had a 7th round pick. Tractors and trailers. Your QB needs to be a tractor for you to win the big one.

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

The biggest takeaway is that QB is the most import position. One team had a 1st round QB that they traded into the top 10 to get. The other had a 7th round pick. Tractors and trailers. Your QB needs to be a tractor for you to win the big one.

 

That is too simplistic though. Brady was a 6th rounder and he had the same poise and instincts like Mahomes. Both teams turned over the ball 2 times each. It is a game either team could have won after the regulation push. But only 1 of them won because the supporting cast of Mahomes forced a FG and the supporting cast of Purdy could not keep it to a FG, and the HC of the 49ers chose to receive while Andy Reid would have deferred, no matter that. The margins weren't huge to be tractors and trailers, at least not in this particular game.

 

If anything, I would point to a Chris Jones in the DL and a young secondary well coached with the Chiefs able to play man coverage while the 49ers DBs primarily played zone coverage. Again, supporting cast was better for Mahomes.

[NewColtsFan]

6 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I am interested on feedback on what people have garnered from watching the top two teams in the Superbowl as it relates to team building. I am thinking about the need for a true #1 receiver? Continue to build in the trenches?  San Fran's defense is very similar to what the Colts run and what did people see from that D as the game wore on?  It was evident at the game got to the 4th, the D line was gassed and this is supposedly a great D line. That has been one of my biggest issues with this D. I have always contended that as the game wears on, this defense becomes very predictable as the Dline wears down and the Qb becomes very comfortable carving up the zones.  Wilks tried some blitzes and paid dearly for it. 

It taught us absolutely nothing.   Would the lesson have been any different had the 9ers kicker made the extra point and San Fran had won?   
 

Ballard has always said there are many different ways to win.   Yet you keep insisting there is one way to do things.  One size fits all.   This has been false every time you’ve said it.  
 

How did Mahomes fall to 10th in the draft?     Dumb luck.   Andy Reid once had a reputation as the best coach to not win a big game.  All of his best success has come since he turned 60.   Shanahan has reached the Super Bowl with Jimmy G and Brock Purdy, neither are franchise QB’s, though Purdy might be someday. 
 

In short, Ballard’s point about there are many ways to win has been proved correct pretty much every single year. 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Noah Fant is the perfect TE addition that will not cost a fortune that fits the bill of what we need from a TE.  

Aren’t you assuming Fant will be available?  

[richard pallo]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

Aren’t you assuming Fant will be available?  

Yes. He’s a FA.  So I’m guessing he’s going to be available.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

A DT Chris Jones  hurt them on two occasions.  A DT no less.  One of the best in the league but a DT not an ER.  Unblocked at the end of the game that turned the game around.

Chris Jones may be listed as a DT but he plays everywhere.  Literally everywhere, up and down the line on any given down. 
 

On the key 3rd down play late in the game for SF, Jones was at the LDE and got penetration which made Purdy rush his throw.  Playing everywhere is one of Jones’s better qualities. 

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Yes. He’s a FA.  So I’m guessing he’s going to be available.

It’s also possible he’ll be signed by his own team.   Just as Pittman is a FA and the Colts hope to re-sign or tag him.   That could happen to Fant. 

[richard pallo]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

It’s also possible he’ll be signed by his own team.   Just as Pittman is a FA and the Colts hope to re-sign or tag him.   That could happen to Fant. 

Sure.  That’s the case with all the FA’s being discussed.  I think he’s a perfect fit if he makes it to FA. 

[chad72]

Bottom line - increase the margin for error for your QB so that the QB doesn't have to do everything.

 

Mahomes' SB run is no different than Eli Manning's run with the Giants D never giving up more than 20 points any game during both their SB winning runs (Chiefs gave up a max. of 24 points this playoffs). When the opportunity arose, Eli, like Mahomes, made plays for game winning drives. But the stalemate prior to that was helped mostly by the supporting cast so that Eli didn't need to force it.