Colts 2024 Current Up to Date Roster + Cap Outlook. OP updated + on page 12(MERGE)

[w87r]

On 12/24/2023 at 11:09 AM, w87r said:

2024 Cap Space:

Spotrac - $18,759,348(75(1) players shown under contract) **estimate $17.5m

OtC - $16,917,296(75 players shown under contract) 

Taven Bryan contract has came in on OtC

 

$2.25m($1.265m against top 51)

 

 

Still yet to be updated on Spotrac.

 

 

So as you see from above OtC, which has all our players currently under contract has us at $16.9m, while Spotrac still needing to update Bryan, I have them projected at $17.5m.

 

 

I will dive into the $600k difference between the 2 sites later tonight or this week end

[w87r]

Differences from Spotrac + OtC:

 

Spotrac: $17,494,348(I figured in Bryan Cap Hit)

OtC: $16,917,296

 

Difference of: $577,052

 

Dead Cap:

Spotrac: $8,422,274

OtC: $8,360,289

 

Difference:$61,985(wrong way)

 

Spotrac has all dead cap listed out, OtC only list a couple 

 

Cap Hits:

I don't see any differences in any of the player salaries, went through line for line. Outside of missing Bryan on Spotrac, but I already calculated in for that, off of OtC numbers.

 

 

Total contracts:(top 51)

Spotrac: $234,823,386(I figured in Bryan Cap Hit)

OtC: $234,555,223

 

 

Difference: $268,163

Which calculates to be the SB of players that dropped off of top 51:

Ogletree ($44,547)

Jones ($28,370)

Scott ($76,959)

Hull ($61,244)

Leo ($33,333)

Witt ($23,705)

 

Spotrac has this information listed, OtC doesn't have it listed or figured into the top 51 cap.

 

Total Cap Spend(everyone):

Spotrac: $264,045,660(Bryan $2.25m figured in)

OtC: $263,983,672

 

Difference: $61,988(wrong way)

 

Dead Cap only difference here, although it changed $3 from listed amount earlier...

 

 

So, further evaluation shows that both of those numbers(dead cap difference + top 51 drop offs signing bonuses), actually skew the results the wrong direction of what I was trying to figure out. The difference ($577,052), as both of those would decrease the cap space available on Spotrac, giving us less cap space there. That isn't the case it's the opposite way 

 

 

 

So I lean towards the Spotrac number being more accurate at the moment, because it's easier to see all the numbers that go into it on their site. OtC is doesn't have quite a bit of stuff broke down on their site.

 

 

Either way it's somewhere within that $577k window difference.

 

Current Cap Space:

$16.92m - $17.49m

 

 

What's your thoughts on this @Superman?

 

A few things can factor in, different rollover amounts (seems most likely), however OtC doesn't list a lot of stuff(Rollover, adjustments, actual salary cap figure), that Spotrac does.

 

 

That's why I have to lean more towards Spotrac being correct at the moment.

 

I can see almost everything there, easier to decipher.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/cap/

 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/indianapolis-colts#google_vignette

[Superman]

3 hours ago, w87r said:

Differences from Spotrac + OtC:

 

Spotrac: $17,494,348(Bryan figured in)

OtC: $16,917,296

 

Difference of: $577,052

 

Dead Cap:

Spotrac: $8,422,274

OtC: $8,360,289

 

Difference:$61,985(wrong way)

 

Spotrac has all dead cap listed out, OtC only list a couple 

 

Cap Hits:

I don't see any differences in any of the player salaries, went through line for line. Outside of missing Bryan on Spotrac, but I already calculated in for that, off of OtC numbers.

 

 

Total contracts:(top 51)

Spotrac: $234,823,386(Bryan Cap Hit figured in)

OtC: $234,555,223

 

 

Difference: $268,163

Which calculates to be the SB of players that dropped off of top 51:

Ogletree ($44,547)

Jones ($28,370)

Scott ($76,959)

Hull ($61,244)

Leo ($33,333)

Witt ($23,705)

 

Spotrac has this information listed, OtC doesn't have it listed or figured into the top 51 cap.

 

Total Cap Spend(everyone):

Spotrac: $264,045,660(Bryan $2.25m figured in)

OtC: $263,983,672

 

Difference: $61,988(wrong way)

 

Dead Cap only difference here, although it changed $3 from listed amount earlier...

 

 

So, further evaluation shows that both of those numbers(dead cap difference + top 51 drop offs signing bonuses), actually skew the results the wrong direction of what I was trying to figure out. The difference ($577,052), as both of those would decrease the cap space available on Spotrac, giving us less cap space there. That isn't the case it's the opposite way 

 

 

 

So I lean towards the Spotrac number being more accurate at the moment, because it's easier to see all the numbers that go into it on their site. OtC is doesn't have quite a bit of stuff broke down on their site.

 

 

Either way it's somewhere within that $577k window difference.

 

Current Cap Space:

$16.92m - $17.49m

 

 

What's your thoughts on this @Superman?

 

A few things can factor in, different rollover amounts (seems most likely), however OtC doesn't list a lot of stuff(Rollover, adjustments, actual salary cap figure), that Spotrac does.

 

 

That's why I have to lean more towards Spotrac being correct at the moment.

 

I can see almost everything there, easier to decipher.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/cap/

 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/indianapolis-colts#google_vignette

 

Without going through it line by line, as long as Spotrac has all the players listed I would defer to their bottom line. Like you said, they include more detail and it's easier to read and keep track. 

[w87r]

On 12/24/2023 at 11:09 AM, w87r said:

2024 Cap Space:

Spotrac - $17,494,348(75 players shown under contract) 

OtC - $16,917,296(75 players shown under contract) 

Spotrac finally updated Taven Bryan contract. 

 

This is the current up to date cap space listed for both sites. Both finally have everyone updated.

[w87r]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Without going through it line by line, as long as Spotrac has all the players listed I would defer to their bottom line. Like you said, they include more detail and it's easier to read and keep track. 

Yeah I already went line by line. Took care of that pretty much in my post.

 

 

It's not a big deal either way, just my OCD I guess.

 

 

EDIT: Spotrac didn't have Bryan updated earlier. All projections I put on there were correct based off OtC though. So that had no bearing on the difference.

[GoColts8818]

On 3/30/2024 at 7:18 PM, w87r said:

Yeah I already went line by line. Took care of that pretty much in my post.

 

 

It's not a big deal either way, just my OCD I guess.

 

 

EDIT: Spotrac didn't have Bryan updated earlier. All projections I put on there were correct based off OtC though. So that had no bearing on the difference.

 NERD!!!  Just kidding I appreciate what you do tracking all the cap numbers.

[w87r]

 

 

 

 

Colts had (2) guys in top 25 of performance based payouts.

 

Fries + Thomas

 

 

No affect on cap space.

[JediXMan]

@w87r 

[w87r]

5 minutes ago, JediXMan said:

@w87r 

Yeah I posted that above.

 

 

It doesn't have any affect on the cap. That money is separate.

 

He did earn about a $2m salary escalator for 2024 though. That will count against the cap this year, but that is already figuring the cap and updated.

[JediXMan]

Run it back lol.

[w87r]

On 12/24/2023 at 11:09 AM, w87r said:

2024 Cap Space:

Spotrac - $17,494,348(75 players shown under contract) 

OtC - $16,917,296(75 players shown under contract) 

 

Re-signed

FA Signing

 

2024 Roster:(under contract)(76)

Offense:(37)

QB:(3) Anthony Richardson, Joe Flacco, Sam Ehlinger

RB:(5) Johnathan Taylor, Evan Hull, Trey Sermon, Tyler Goodson, Zavier Scott

WR:(9) Michael Pittman, Alex Pierce, Josh Downs, Ashton Dulin, DJ Montgomery, Juwann Winfree, Tyrie Cleveland, Ethan Fernea, Terrell Bynum

TE:(7) Mo Alie-Cox, Andrew Ogletree, Jelani Woods, Kylen Granson, Will Mallory, Jordan Murray, Eric Tomlinson

OT:(4) Bernard Raimann, Braden Smith, Blake Freeland, Jake Witt

OG:(5) Quentin Nelson, Will Fries, Josh Sills, Arlington Hambright, Lewis Kidd

OC:(4) Ryan Kelly, Danny Pinter, Wesley French, Jack Anderson 

 

Defense:(36)

DE:(7) Samson Ebukam, Kwity Paye, Dayo Odeyingbo, Tyquan Lewis, Titus Leo, Isaiah Land, Genard Avery 

DT:(6) Deforest Buckner, Grover Stewart, Raekwon Davis, Adetomiwa Adebawore, Taven Bryan, Eric Johnson

LB:(8) EJ Speed, Zaire Franklin, Ronnie Harrison, Grant Stuard, Cameron McGrone, Segun Olubi, Liam Anderson, Austin Ajiake

CB:(7) Dallis Flowers, JuJu Brents, Kenny Moore, Jaylon Jones, Ameer Speed, Chris Lammons, Darrell Baker Jr

S:(8) Julian Blackmon, Nick Cross, Rodney Thomas, Daniel Scott, Trevor Denbow, Marcel Dabo, Kendell Brooks, Michael Tutsie

 

SPT:(3)

K: Matt Gay

P: Rigoberto Sanchez 

LS: Luke Rhodes

Updated roster in OP after Blackmon signing.

 

 

Will be interesting to see where this cap number falls. Only 1yr so not going to be pushing any money down the line.

 

Hopefully can get in the $6m-$8m range.

[w87r]

Finally the time has come. A week later they have updated Blackmon's contract.

 

$3,890,000 year 1 cap hit

- $985,000

 

Total top 51 cap hit: $2,905,000

 

 

 

Updated current cap space:

Spotrac - $14,589,348

OtC - $14,012,296

 

 

Spotrac wasn't updated but used OtC cap hit for Spotrac.

 

 

OP updated as well.

[Yoshinator]

28 minutes ago, w87r said:

Finally the time has come. A week later they have updated Blackmon's contract.

 

$3,890,000 year 1 cap hit

- $985,000

 

Total top 51 cap hit: $2,905,000

 

 

 

Updated current cap space:

Spotrac - $14,589,348

OtC - $14,012,296

 

 

Spotrac wasn't updated but used OtC cap hit for Spotrac.

 

 

OP updated as well.

Thanks for the update. We are in good shape cap-wise still. Maybe we still sign a veteran CB before the draft.

[richard pallo]

2 hours ago, w87r said:

Finally the time has come. A week later they have updated Blackmon's contract.

 

$3,890,000 year 1 cap hit

- $985,000

 

Total top 51 cap hit: $2,905,000

 

 

 

Updated current cap space:

Spotrac - $14,589,348

OtC - $14,012,296

 

 

Spotrac wasn't updated but used OtC cap hit for Spotrac.

 

 

OP updated as well.

Still room for Diggs or Simmons now.

[w87r]

3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Still room for Diggs or Simmons now.

 

Updated current cap space:

Spotrac - $14,589,348

OtC - $14,012,296

 

 

Not as much as it seems.

 

Need around $2.8m(ish) for draft if we don't pick up any additional picks, or trade up.

 

Get us down to $11.2m - $11.7m

 

 

Which is actually decent amount.

 

 

However, once September rolls around, we will need to have $2.5(ish) for practice squad players.

 

We will probably leave ourselves $7-$8m in season cash.

 

So most of that is spoken for, that's not till September though.

 

So we all know there are multiple ways to come up with some more cash if needed. ($5.9m for Cox, notably)

 

 

Another issue is roster space. I think I saw somewhere, that Dabo doesn't get a free roster space this year, so we have (14) open spots.

 

(7) draft picks right now(TBD actually total)

 

 

That leaves (7) open spots, which isn't too big a deal either, as we can release bottom of roster guys if we find more than (7) UDFA to sign after the draft, or if we want to bring in some other vets off of the FA list 

[GoColts8818]

 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, w87r said:

 

Updated current cap space:

Spotrac - $14,589,348

OtC - $14,012,296

 

 

Not as much as it seems.

 

Need around $2.8m(ish) for draft if we don't pick up any additional picks, or trade up.

 

Get us down to $11.2m - $11.7m

 

 

Which is actually decent amount.

 

 

However, once September rolls around, we will need to have $2.5(ish) for practice squad players.

 

We will probably leave ourselves $7-$8m in season cash.

 

So most of that is spoken for, that's not till September though.

 

So we all know there are multiple ways to come up with some more cash if needed. ($5.9m for Cox, notably)

 

 

Another issue is roster space. I think I saw somewhere, that Dabo doesn't get a free roster space this year, so we have (14) open spots.

 

(7) draft picks right now(TBD actually total)

 

 

That leaves (7) open spots, which isn't too big a deal either, as we can release bottom of roster guys if we find more than (7) UDFA to sign after the draft, or if we want to bring in some other vets off of the FA list 

All very true and interesting.  And still Ballard put a big offer out there for Hunter and  was considering Sneed until he became prohibitive.  We know there are numerous ways he can create space.  I still wouldn’t put it past him to find a way to bring in a meaningful acquisition.

[Solid84]

20 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

All very true and interesting.  And still Ballard put a big offer out there for Hunter and  was considering Sneed until he became prohibitive.  We know there are numerous ways he can create space.  I still wouldn’t put it past him to find a way to bring in a meaningful acquisition.

Are there any meaningful players left in FA or are you talking trade?

[richard pallo]

12 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Are there any meaningful players left in FA or are you talking trade?

I consider Diggs and Simmons as meaningful players in FA.  Another meaningful player who I think we might be able to acquire in a trade is Budda Baker.  He would be a trade and extend candidate like Buckner.  He wouldn’t cost a 1st rd pick either.  He was supposedly available last year.  I could see him fitting in nicely with Blackmon.

[Solid84]

9 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I consider Diggs and Simmons as meaningful players in FA.  Another meaningful player who I think we might be able to acquire in a trade is Budda Baker.  He would be a trade and extend candidate like Buckner.  He wouldn’t cost a 1st rd pick either.  He was supposedly available last year.  I could see him fitting in nicely with Blackmon.

Diggs and Simmons would essentially be one year signings. Baker is 28 so he'd probably have a few more years in him, but I don't think I'd want sign Ballard to sign him to a 3 year contract and do you really want to trade for a player who'll probably only be here 1-2 years?

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Solid84 said:

Diggs and Simmons would essentially be one year signings. Baker is 28 so he'd probably have a few more years in him, but I don't think I'd want sign Ballard to sign him to a 3 year contract and do you really want to trade for a player who'll probably only be here 1-2 years?

I would. I think he would be here three years for sure.  He would help us get a Super Bowl.  

[w87r]

2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I consider Diggs and Simmons as meaningful players in FA.  Another meaningful player who I think we might be able to acquire in a trade is Budda Baker.  He would be a trade and extend candidate like Buckner.  He wouldn’t cost a 1st rd pick either.  He was supposedly available last year.  I could see him fitting in nicely with Blackmon.

https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2024/04/11/budda-baker-trade-rumors-bills-49ers/

 

Colts listed as 1 of 3 teams for Baker in this article.

 

 

Although the original article sighted came out the day we signed Blackmon 

[richard pallo]

7 minutes ago, w87r said:

https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2024/04/11/budda-baker-trade-rumors-bills-49ers/

 

Colts listed as 1 of 3 teams for Baker in this article.

 

 

Although the original article sighted came out the day we signed Blackmon 

Thanks.  My whole thought was to pair him with Blackmon.  Signing Blackmon shouldn’t stop the trade it should push it forward.  Blackmon wasn’t expensive.  I think they would make a great tandem.  So he’s going to cost some.  That doesn’t bother me.  I would rather have Baker for three years than Diggs or Simmons for this year.  I really hope Ballard is making some inquiries with two weeks to go.  Baker reminds me of Sanders.  He would be a great addition.

[OhioColt]

Did see where the Texans released one of my college edge players that was high on, Myjai Sanders out of Cincinnati.  Wouldn't mind adding him to our defensive line.  Imagine Alec Pierce wouldn't complain and support efforts to add Sanders. 

[GoColts8818]

5 minutes ago, OhioColt said:

Did see where the Texans released one of my college edge players that was high on, Myjai Sanders out of Cincinnati.  Wouldn't mind adding him to our defensive line.  Imagine Alec Pierce wouldn't complain and support efforts to add Sanders. 

I don’t think Pierce is really in position to have his voice matter when it comes to personal decisions.

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Thanks.  My whole thought was to pair him with Blackmon.  Signing Blackmon shouldn’t stop the trade it should push it forward.  Blackmon wasn’t expensive.  I think they would make a great tandem.  So he’s going to cost some.  That doesn’t bother me.  I would rather have Baker for three years than Diggs or Simmons for this year.  I really hope Ballard is making some inquiries with two weeks to go.  Baker reminds me of Sanders.  He would be a great addition.

I just don’t see the colts adding a very expensive player this late in the off-season process.   The Colts would have to extend him giving the leverage to Baker.   It just wouldn’t be a Ballard move.   

[richard pallo]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I just don’t see the colts adding a very expensive player this late in the off-season process.   The Colts would have to extend him giving the leverage to Baker.   It just wouldn’t be a Ballard move.   

They did it for Buckner and Justin Houston at the time to name two. I think Ballard believes he has a team that can win the division.  He’s just missing a couple of pieces.  One more starting veteran acquisition and hitting on the 1st pick would probably do it.

[dw49]

19 hours ago, richard pallo said:

All very true and interesting.  And still Ballard put a big offer out there for Hunter and  was considering Sneed until he became prohibitive.  We know there are numerous ways he can create space.  I still wouldn’t put it past him to find a way to bring in a meaningful acquisition.

 

Pretty easy for Indy to add a player like Diggs or Simmons. The two "easy" options would be cutting MAC or signing one of the above to a 2 year deal with most of the salary pushed to year 2. In 2025 , we won't have the 8 mill in dead money and probably won't be paying 14 mill to the C position .

 

Looking at 2025 , the only meaningful FA we have are Buckner , Speed  and Kelly . As of now , Spotrac has us with 76 mill in cap room . Looks to be that # INCLUDES picking up Q Paye's  13.3 mill option.  Really simple to do a deal for one of those 2 safeties .

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

They did it for Buckner and Justin Houston at the time to name two. I think Ballard believes he has a team that can win the division.  He’s just missing a couple of pieces.  One more starting veteran acquisition and hitting on the 1st pick would probably do it.

Buckner played the most important position in the defense Ballard wants to play and was 25/26.   Houston was signed to a 2-year contract for $23.5m.  Baker will want far more dollars and many more years and doesn’t play a premium position in Ballard’s defense.   
 

Im in the camp hoping for either Simmons or Diggs.   

[w87r]

On 12/24/2023 at 11:09 AM, w87r said:

2024 Cap Space:

Spotrac - $14,589,348(76 players shown under contract) 

OtC - $14,012,296(76 players shown under contract) 

 

My projection for the Buckner extension cap hit:

 

Current Cap Hit $22.75m

 

Extension:(2yrs $46m)

2024 - $17.75m(saves $5m this season)

2025 - $25.5m

2026 - $25.5m

 

 

New cap space afterwards:

Spotrac - $17.1m

OtC - $16.5m

 

 

***Not official, just my projections

[shasta519]

16 hours ago, w87r said:

 

My projection for the Buckner extension cap hit:

 

Current Cap Hit $22.75m

 

Extension:(2yrs $46m)

2024 - $17.75m(saves $5m this season)

2025 - $25.5m

2026 - $25.5m

 

 

New cap space afterwards:

Spotrac - $17.1m

OtC - $16.5m

 

 

***Not official, just my projections

 

Spotrac has DeFo at $22.75M for this year. But I don't remember what his previous cap hit was prior to the extension. 

[jvan1973]

10 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Spotrac has DeFo at $22.75M for this year. But I don't remember what his previous cap hit was prior to the extension. 

22.75 is before the extension 

[w87r]

https://overthecap.com/player/deforest-buckner/4720

Contract Notes

 

DeForest Buckner signed a two year, $46 million contract with the Colts on April 15, 2024. Bucker received $53.25 million in guarantees on the total contract value of which $43.25 million is fully guaranteed. The new money guarantee is $33 million with $23 million guaranteed at signing. Buckner received an $18 million signing bonus and his 2024 and 2025 salaries are fully guaranteed. There are two void years for salary cap purposes. The extension reduced Buckner's 2024 salary cap number by $14.4 million.

 

 

 

2024 original cap hit: $22.75m

 

 

 

new extension cap hits:

2024 - $8.35m

2025 - $26.6m

2026 - $26.6m

2027 - $7.2m(void year)

2028 - $3.6m(void year)

 

 

 This is way outside the box for Ballard. Something probably in the works. $14.4m cap savings this year.

 

 

New cap space per OtC(Spotrac not updated yet)

 

$28,412,296

 

 

Spotrac - $28,194,348  (estimated with $14.4m savings)

[w87r]

Contract looks something like this:(just my thoughts looking at verbiage)

2024 - base $2.25m, SB $3.6m, Restructure Bonus $2.5m = $8.35m total

2025 - base $23m, SB $3.6m = $26.6m total

2026 - base $23m, SB $3.6m = $26.6m total

2027 - SB $3.6m(void years) = $7.2m total(if no new contract)

2028 - SB $3.6m(void years)

[Yoshinator]

47 minutes ago, w87r said:

Wowsers:

 

https://overthecap.com/player/deforest-buckner/4720

 

Contract Notes

DeForest Buckner signed a two year, $46 million contract with the Colts on April 15, 2024. Bucker received $53.25 million in guarantees on the total contract value of which $43.25 million is fully guaranteed. The new money guarantee is $33 million with $23 million guaranteed at signing. Buckner received an $18 million signing bonus and his 2024 and 2025 salaries are fully guaranteed. There are two void years for salary cap purposes. The extension reduced Buckner's 2024 salary cap number by $14.4 million.

 

2024 original cap hit: $22.75m

 

new extension cap hits:

2024 - $8.35m

2025 - $26.6m

2026 - $26.6m

2027 - $7.2m(void year)(dead cap)

2028 - $3.6m(void year)(dead cap)

 

 

This is way outside the box for Ballard. Something probably in the works.

 

 

New cap space per OtC(Spotrac not updated yet)

$28,412,296

 

Spotrac estimate - $28,194,348

Maybe we will go after Akhello Witherspoon on a one-year deal? Maybe both him and Quandre Diggs? This is really interesting in any case. 

[w87r]

So what does all this extra cap space this year mean?

 

Diggs or Simmons?

 

Only problem I see with this is Blackmon, how will he take it if we bring in outside Safety making 2-3x what he is making?

 

Xavien Howard, Gilmore, Nelson?

 

Trade for someone? Baker?

 

 

Trade up in draft would cost more as well...

 

 

Countdown has begun.

[Yoshinator]

I'm going to make a prediction. We trade for Budda Baker and give him an extension. We may even release Cox to save another $6 million. 

 

We trade a 3rd rounder for Budda Baker and a 6th rounder. That's my prediction.

[JediXMan]

Let’s go get Justin Simmons now.

 

 

 

[Solid84]

28 minutes ago, w87r said:

So what does all this extra cap space this year mean?

 

Diggs or Simmons?

 

Only problem I see with this is Blackmon, how will he take it if we bring in outside Safety making 2-3x what he is making?

 

Xavien Howard, Gilmore, Nelson?

 

Trade for someone? Baker?

 

 

Trade up in draft would cost more as well...

 

 

Countdown has begun.

I was thinking Safety but didn’t think about the Blackmon angle. 🤔

[richard pallo]

1 minute ago, Yoshinator said:

I'm going to make a prediction. We trade for Budda Baker and give him an extension. We may even release Cox to save another $6 million. 

 

We trade a 3rd rounder for Budda Baker and a 6th rounder. That's my prediction.

I said this in an earlier post.  A trade for Baker makes sense to me.  He’s younger than Simmons or Diggs.  I think the first knee jerk reaction is we are signing on of the two but I wouldn’t rule out Baker.